Fire in Loon Cove today.

[8545retfd]

To Winnesquam, You seem to have answered some of your own questions. Yes, proper staffing is one of the keys. Have you ever worked a fire wearing 60lbs. of gear, and air pack while you are soaked with sweat, and your gear is soaked with water? that 60lbs. is now more like a 100lbs. You don't last long before you are spent. That's where staffing comes in you need reserves to back up the initial attack line ASAP, not have to wait 10-15 min. for the next closest dept. to show up with possibly 1 working firefighter! The NFPA suggests engine staffing of minimally 4 ffs. Laconia, and possibly Gilford have that. As far as throwing $$ at the FD, you answered your own question, manpower and equipment. My attitude comes from people making comments either based on a 1/10th of a second photo of a fire ground, or comments on a subject that they know nothing about. The fire service is based on improvising, adapting, overcoming any situation. Now let me ask you a question. Do you or your neighbors provide clearly marked house #s, easy access to your properties, and easy access to the lake for an engine to draft? If not, then that is part of the problem. I'm sure your local chief would be more than happy to hear your concerns. Again, as I previously stated, to understand, you need to walk the walk. Dippaspan's idea could possibly work, but there is a lot of logistics that would go into that. You would need a pump that can produce 150 psi at minimum. Then firehose, nozzles, etc. There is something in hose called friction loss, which means the smaller the diameter hose, the more pressure is lost in the line. If you have 2,3,4 hundred feet of hose out, sometimes even going uphill, the volume, and pressure out of your nozzle will be minimal. The bottom line is there is no one clear cut solution to island, and lake front property fires. Ask your local dept. what can be done as an island community, or a land based lake front community to improve access and/or firefighting capability. Over and outK

[4 for Boating]

Honest question here as I'm trying to educate myself on the engineering of the Fire Trucks.

So non-island waterfront fires, can the truck pull from the lake for supply?

I realize they can pull from lakes, ponds and even swimming pools if need be to "fill" the tanks but are the trucks designed to pull and also pressurize to address a fire in real time? (Like a fire boat does?)

[fatlazyless]

Meredith has a fire tanker, Winnipesaukee lake water fill pipe located close to Cattle Landing town dock at intersection of Cattle Landing Rd and Patricia Drive.

Without a heat source is a big mystery as to what keeps it from freezing ...... probably, it freezes? ..... because the law of physics apply even on Lake Winnipesaukee.

You know, on second thought, this water tanker fill pipe is probably designed and installed so it does not freeze up because the large diameter pipe enters the lake from underneath the lake bottom, an interesting design. After all, what good is a water supply pipe that is frozen from use for 3-4 months of the year?

[8545retfd]

Yes, todays engines are designed to draft water out of a lake, pond, etc. Drafting hose is generally 10-12ft. per length. Most engines carry 2-3 lengths. The length in the lake will have a strainer attached to prevent fish, vegetation from getting into the pump. Also the strainer should not be laying on the bottom because sand can get in and really mess up your pump. Engines typically range in size from 1000-2000 gpm. These ratings are done at draft, and at 150- 250 psi. The more pressure, the less gpms. Engines are typically tested every year to see if they can still do their rated capacity. Drafts can be established up to 24 ft in elevation, but way less gpms. You will also see candy cane looking things around lakes, ponds. etc. They are called dry hydrants, and are piped directly into the lake. That way an engine can pull up, hook up and establish a draft relatively quickly. Over and OutK

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by 4 for Boating

Honest question here as I'm trying to educate myself on the engineering of the Fire Trucks.

So non-island waterfront fires, can the truck pull from the lake for supply?

I realize they can pull from lakes, ponds and even swimming pools if need be to "fill" the tanks but are the trucks designed to pull and also pressurize to address a fire in real time? (Like a fire boat does?)

Yes they can. Fire pumpers are tested when delivered new, and regularly afterward, to be sure they meet the rated capacity of the pump. The test to draft from a lake or water source requires that it be at least 4 feet deep, clear water, and the lift should be 10 feet from the water surface to the center of the intake on the pump.

That would represent a real test. Obviously, testing from a hydrant defeats the purpose because the water coming into the truck is already pressurized.

In a major fire situation a pumper at a hydrant feeding a pumper or ladder pipe at the fire needs to watch the intake pressure because you can exceed the capacity of the hydrant and water main to supply the volume you are using. That is one of the reasons the driver always says with the truck.

Here is a a trick: When using a hydrant and the intakes at the pump panel on the truck if you are close to exceeding the capacity of the water supply it helps if the operator keeps his leg against the hose line. That way if you are distracted and don't notice on the gauges that you are going into a vacuum situation you will feel the line go soft. OK..........TMI.

At most waterfront houses there is not sufficient clearance to get to the lake. You also have to worry about septic systems, overhead wires Etc before you start driving through some yard you are not familiar with. It would have to be a pretty large yard because you couldn't be too close to the building that was on fire.

[CampEye]

@Little Bear - would love to hear more about your setup. You inspired me to do a little research and found this site with a good write-up on how they built their own first line of defense. https://learn.eartheasy.com/articles...ection-system/

[DickR]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

.....
At most waterfront houses there is not sufficient clearance to get to the lake. You also have to worry about septic systems, overhead wires Etc before you start driving through some yard you are not familiar with. It would have to be a pretty large yard because you couldn't be too close to the building that was on fire.

So, with "all that water, right there in front," what might access to it look like when the engine can't drive close to it? I imagine there are creative minds here and among those with fire fighting expertise to come up with something that might be quite useful for lakefront communities.

When a call comes in, the location of the fire would identify the location as waterfront. A pickup truck could be dispatched to carry a load of big drafting hose lengths to complement the few sections with a pump engine. If the engine, at closest approach, is too high above lake level, then some pumping power down closer would be needed. What might that look like? Sure, there would be some tradeoff between pumping capacity and mobility. There also would be a tradeoff between setup time vs time for others to make repeated trips to some hydrant location to refill tanks. If adequate pumping capacity weighs too much to be hand-carried or wheeled down to lakefront, what about a specially configured ATV with PTO connected to a pump? In many cases, that could be offloaded from a pickup, driven down to lakefront, and used to pump water up to suction at an engine. Such a vehicle could be of great use in winter when fireboats can't operate.