Paddle boarder struck by pontoon boat

[gillygirl]

EKAL isn’t that close to the busiest part of the docks. I don’t think the majority of people realize there are two public docks on that side. Guess I shouldn’t have been launching my kayak next to the jet ski launch in Glendale.


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

EKAL isn’t that close to the busiest part of the docks. I don’t think the majority of people realize there are two public docks on that side. Guess I shouldn’t have been launching my kayak next to the jet ski launch in Glendale.


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They didn't note specifically where the accident occurred. But as the economy begins to back off... less expensive pursuits tend to be the grounds we build our local business on. So we protect those less expensive pursuits.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

They didn't note specifically where the accident occurred. But as the economy begins to back off... less expensive pursuits tend to be the grounds we build our local business on. So we protect those less expensive pursuits.

From the pictures I’ve seen on the I boat… Facebook page, it was at the end of the dock on the right.




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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

From the pictures I’ve seen on the I boat… Facebook page, it was at the end of the dock on the right.Attachment 17153


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I believe that would be Church Landing, right next to the Lakehouse... basically right were EKAL is located.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I believe that would be Church Landing, right next to the Lakehouse... basically right were EKAL is located.

Yes, you can see EKAL labeled in the image. This is where they launch. It’s typically quiet. Not sure what the brouhaha is about them moving where they launch. They don’t launch at the main docks.


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[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Yes, you can see EKAL labeled in the image. This is where they launch. It’s typically quiet. Not sure what the brouhaha is about them moving where they launch. They don’t launch at the main docks.


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The discussion about moving were they launch was about people launching at the boat ramp, not EKAL.

Some part of the overall discussion was about the risks of all paddle boarders paddling around the boat docks, but not specifically EKAL.

[John Mercier]

EKAL was where it happened.
They inhabit that little cover area along with the other operations at Church Landing.

[mswlogo]

Mixing 30ft boats and paddle boards (and the like) are bound to cause problems.

Do we allow skate boards on the highway?

I don’t think paddle boards, kayaks, canoes or swimmers should be in and around docks built for large vessels.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Mixing 30ft boats and paddle boards (and the like) are bound to cause problems.

Do we allow skate boards on the highway?

I don’t think paddle boards, kayaks, canoes or swimmers should be in and around docks built for large vessels.

Discussion about banning paddle boards around docks aside, clearly there risks for everyone in and around docks, but its quite different for 2 25' boats to bump into each other than a 25' boat bumping into a paddle boarder. That just just frightening to me. Hope I never see it let along be involved in such,,,

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Discussion about banning paddle boards around docks aside, clearly there risks for everyone in and around docks, but its quite different for 2 25' boats to bump into each other than a 25' boat bumping into a paddle boarder. That just just frightening to me. Hope I never see it let along be involved in such,,,

How about an 8' RIB with a 2 HP outboard, or a 10' jon boat with only a trolling motor for propulsion. Should those be allowed around public docks that larger boats use?

Just asking in terms of trying to understand where the limit is that people feel adds risk. My paddle board is 12'6", and I'm over 6' tall. I have a tandem kayak that is 16' long. A 10' jon boat is smaller than either, and similar profile to the kayak. And with a trolling motor is quite a bit less responsive than either of the paddle powered craft.

Listen, I get it that mixed use can add risk. Going across NY Harbor in an 18' runabout with 600 ft. freighters in both directions has potential for bad things to happen. I just have a hard time, after a lifetime of "power boats yield to non-powered boats", accepting the idea that kayaks have to stay away because boats with 600 HP can't maneuver around them without risking their lives.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

How about an 8' RIB with a 2 HP outboard, or a 10' jon boat with only a trolling motor for propulsion. Should those be allowed around public docks that larger boats use?

Just asking in terms of trying to understand where the limit is that people feel adds risk. My paddle board is 12'6", and I'm over 6' tall. I have a tandem kayak that is 16' long. A 10' jon boat is smaller than either, and similar profile to the kayak. And with a trolling motor is quite a bit less responsive than either of the paddle powered craft.

Listen, I get it that mixed use can add risk. Going across NY Harbor in an 18' runabout with 600 ft. freighters in both directions has potential for bad things to happen. I just have a hard time, after a lifetime of "power boats yield to non-powered boats", accepting the idea that kayaks have to stay away because boats with 600 HP can't maneuver around them without risking their lives.

As the operator of paddle board, kayak, or jon boat you tell me???

If I am in a 30' power boat 4' off the water and leaving a dock on one side with just enough throttle to keep control with some wave and some wind, what are your expectations for me to see you AND be able to stop if you are traversing in a direction that will cross my exit path but you are not viable to me because you are to low or hidden behind another boat and I dont see you until you are right in front of me.

In a jon boat you will not be happy by the 2 - 5 MPH collision that will likely occur, but you may not be harmed. In a kayak, you will likely get knocked over, but again at that speed I would not expect serious injury. On a paddle board, I would have great fear you could suffer significant injury.

So assuming conditions such as I describe, where a power boat is leaving a dock at a reasonable speed, but a jon boat operator or a kayaker or a paddle boarder is traversing very close to the end of the dock ready to pass in front of the power boat but is not in any way viable to the power boat operator, how do we prevent a collision?

If I am missing something about this scenario as a boat operator, I welcome any tips anyone is willing to share, BUT I have ZERO interest in hearing its just your responsibility. That will not avoid a collision in the situation I am describing, nor will changing the scenario. This is specific to situations where the paddle board, kayak, or jon boat is NOT visible to the boat operator and will be crossing their path of exit with no advance warning possible.

Doesnt happen often, but it is something no one ever wants to experience.

So how do we prevent it, or not,,,

[MAXUM]

Just a general observation but ya know, there are "crosswalks" painted on the road for a reason. So you don't have individuals running across a busy road or intersection trying to dodge traffic.

I would thing the same sort of logic applies here. Paddleboards have no business being anywhere near areas of boat traffic\congestion. Anyone, especially anyone inexperienced that decides this is a good idea is deserving of a Darwin award.

[chachee52]

Here's a suggestion. People keep talking about boats getting bigger, 30' boats are mentioned. Why don't we go back to old school, the people powered boats (canoes/kayaks) have been part of the lake WAY before big power boats.
SOOOOOO, if you look at it that way, the bigger power boats that "don't have control to have control" should be banned.
Why should the boats that were on the lake from the start of boat transportation on the lake be banned from anywhere on the lake?
Just another way of looking at a crazy idea of what people are saying. Just reverse what you are saying.
And just in case you are wondering, I do captain a 24' bow rider, have multiple kayaks, and a canoe.
Honestly will any of these ideas actually happen, no. But at some point always have to look at other ways of thinking.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Discussion about banning paddle boards around docks aside, clearly there risks for everyone in and around docks, but its quite different for 2 25' boats to bump into each other than a 25' boat bumping into a paddle boarder. That just just frightening to me. Hope I never see it let along be involved in such,,,

Exactly. Or two paddle boarders bumping into each other.

The mix of scale is just asking for trouble in such close quarters and it's the big vessel that will be in big trouble even if the small vessel did something dumb.

[John Mercier]

It doesn't work that way.
Town docks mean that town residents, and business owners, will have the greatest say in what the policy will be.

Since this was private docks, they will determine what the policy will be.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

It doesn't work that way.

Town docks mean that town residents, and business owners, will have the greatest say in what the policy will be.

Since this was private docks, they will determine what the policy will be.

The dock on the right in the image I posted is a public dock.


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

The dock on the right in the image I posted is a public dock.


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I am being informed by the people that should know, that both those docks are owned by Hampshire Hospitality Holdings, a subsidiary of Procaccianti.

Public access, privately owned.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

EKAL was where it happened.
They inhabit that little cover area along with the other operations at Church Landing.

Understood, but the conversation turned to others experiences about launching at the public ramp and the risks of operating paddle boards in that same space as the boats.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

The discussion about moving were they launch was about people launching at the boat ramp, not EKAL.

Some part of the overall discussion was about the risks of all paddle boarders paddling around the boat docks, but not specifically EKAL.

Then why post about bad press for EKAL in post #45?


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[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Then why post about bad press for EKAL in post #45?


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As the incident in question happened when a paddle boarder came into close proximity to a boat dock, an always dangerous place.

So many situations where such an accident could happen where the boat operator would have little ability to prevent it, but that if the paddle board was not operating so closely to the dock it could have been avoided.

Not saying this was one of those situations, but there are conceivable situations where a boater could not see a paddle board in motion but hugging the end of a dock passing in front of a moving boat where the operator will not be able to stop the boat in time. So in those cases and impact is virtually inevitable unless you keep paddle boarders some distance from the docks.

And once there is any accident, ANY accident, it will cause some people to be afraid for renting/using paddle boards and thats truly a shame. It looks like a really reasonable and fun and usually safe activity, but not around active boat docks.

Just a few feet could be a huge difference.

Of as said before remove all the boats, or all the paddle boards, or invent deflector shields, etc ;-)

ATB

[ITD]

Learn how to drive your boat. If you can't handle a 30 foot boat in close quarters with out hitting a paddle boarder and running up on a dock, then you are the problem. This is a boat driver problem, not a paddle board problem.

I have a 27 foot boat, I've had paddle boarders come close to me many times. My boat did not hit the paddle boarder, nor did it end up running up on a dock. Here's a hint, if the thought of this makes you nervous, you need more work and practice on handling your boat. If you think your boat needs to be traveling at a certain speed to be controllable, then you need practice, lots of it.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

Learn how to drive your boat. If you can't handle a 30 foot boat in close quarters with out hitting a paddle boarder and running up on a dock, then you are the problem. This is a boat driver problem, not a paddle board problem.

I have a 27 foot boat, I've had paddle boarders come close to me many times. My boat did not hit the paddle boarder, nor did it end up running up on a dock. Here's a hint, if the thought of this makes you nervous, you need more work and practice on handling your boat. If you think your boat needs to be traveling at a certain speed to be controllable, then you need practice, lots of it.

The world seems to be just brimming full with self-proclaimed perfect human specimens.

I cant wait until the little green men come down and ask to see our role models, I'll know just where to point them for perfect boat operator.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

The world seems to be just brimming full with self-proclaimed perfect human specimens.

I cant wait until the little green men come down and ask to see our role models, I'll know just where to point them for perfect boat operator.

No one is perfect, but if a captain is afraid of people near the boat while underway, that captain is not safe.

I see it all the time when I'm near a dock, people afraid of hitting something, gunning their boat so they won't hit it. An absolutely wrong, but prevalent reaction.... a dangerous reaction.

Seriously, if anyone is afraid or worried about hitting a paddle boarder near their boat, they need some training on how to operate the boat. Give the coast guard auxiliary a call, or a local marina, or someone who knows how to operate a boat to give lessons. It's not that hard, but it just doesn't happen, you need to practice it.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

No one is perfect, but if a captain is afraid of people near the boat while underway, that captain is not safe.

I see it all the time when I'm near a dock, people afraid of hitting something, gunning their boat so they won't hit it. An absolutely wrong, but prevalent reaction.... a dangerous reaction.

Seriously, if anyone is afraid or worried about hitting a paddle boarder near their boat, they need some training on how to operate the boat. Give the coast guard auxiliary a call, or a local marina, or someone who knows how to operate a boat to give lessons. It's not that hard, but it just doesn't happen, you need to practice it.

Totally ridiculous statements, no point in responding, I simply hope you never find yourself in "that" position.

ATB

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by ITD

No one is perfect, but if a captain is afraid of people near the boat while underway, that captain is not safe.

I see it all the time when I'm near a dock, people afraid of hitting something, gunning their boat so they won't hit it. An absolutely wrong, but prevalent reaction.... a dangerous reaction.

Seriously, if anyone is afraid or worried about hitting a paddle boarder near their boat, they need some training on how to operate the boat. Give the coast guard auxiliary a call, or a local marina, or someone who knows how to operate a boat to give lessons. It's not that hard, but it just doesn't happen, you need to practice it.

I do like this. Just like driving a car. The ones that are afraid of driving are the ones that are usually in situation that might cause a car accident.
The Boating license in NH gives NO training on how to actually operate a boat. I remember a guy that insisted he knew how to operate his boat, he took the old Burger King docks out twice!! He always blamed the waves moving the dock.

[winniwannabe]

[XCR-700]

Sorry ANYONE who operates any powerful motorized vehicle and says they have no fear of running over a paddle boarder/bicyclist/pedestrian/ect should not be behind the wheel. Operating boats and cars on public roads and waterways is not NASCAR you need to keep a healthy dose of concern front an center. There is no place for arrogant operators that believe they can do no wrong. This is just foolish and irresponsible soapbox grandstanding.

Its no wonder we dont have far more accidents with attitudes like that.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Sorry ANYONE who operates any powerful motorized vehicle and says they have no fear of running over a paddle boarder/bicyclist/pedestrian/ect should not be behind the wheel. Operating boats and cars on public roads and waterways is not NASCAR you need to keep a healthy dose of concern front an center. There is no place for arrogant operators that believe they can do no wrong. This is just foolish and irresponsible soapbox grandstanding.

Its no wonder we dont have far more accidents with attitudes like that.

You've twisted my words. I don't worry about about a paddle boarder near my boat because if I am close enough and in a position to run a boarder over I am fully stopped until they move on.

If I'm in a spot where I can't see what is around the corner, I'm barely moving until I can see and I can stop if a paddle boarder pops out from behind some mythical object he was hiding behind.

Paddle boarders do not appear out of nowhere. They are easy to see. They move slowly. I pay attention while my boat is moving, it's that simple. But beyond that, I understand that the boat does not need to be moving a certain speed to be under control. I can hold the boat in one place if I need to. Even if.... gasp... it is breezy or there is a current. If it is real windy I'm very careful in tight spots and near people. If it is so windy I can't hold the boat in one spot, I stay home, which is very rare.

You want to ban people from enjoying themselves because you are afraid of your boat. The last thing this lady wanted to do was run someone over and run her boat up on a dock. But she did, she didn't know what she was doing. She was afraid of her boat, she thought she needed to be moving a certain speed to control it, and she reacted badly by adding so much power to avoid the boarder that she ran her over AND ran her boat up on a dock.

I never move near things any faster than I would want to hit that thing. This means very slowly, and near people (swimmers, boarders, canoes, paddle boats, kayaks), either very slowly, or not at all until the person moves far enough away and it is safe to move again.

Your problem is that you think you need to attain some magic speed before your boat is controllable. That is not true, if you can't "nudge" your boat in a direction, or hold your boat stationary in a breeze, then you need to find someone to show you how to do so. You are the problem, not me.

The danger is not a random paddle boarder near a dock for a few minutes, the danger is boaters who do not know how to drive their boats. If you are in fear, or worried about driving your boat or operating your boat in close quarters, find someone to help you learn, read a book on how to handle a boat and get out and practice.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

You've twisted my words. I don't worry about about a paddle boarder near my boat because if I am close enough and in a position to run a boarder over I am fully stopped until they move on.

If I'm in a spot where I can't see what is around the corner, I'm barely moving until I can see and I can stop if a paddle boarder pops out from behind some mythical object he was hiding behind.

Paddle boarders do not appear out of nowhere. They are easy to see. They move slowly. I pay attention while my boat is moving, it's that simple. But beyond that, I understand that the boat does not need to be moving a certain speed to be under control. I can hold the boat in one place if I need to. Even if.... gasp... it is breezy or there is a current. If it is real windy I'm very careful in tight spots and near people. If it is so windy I can't hold the boat in one spot, I stay home, which is very rare.

You want to ban people from enjoying themselves because you are afraid of your boat. The last thing this lady wanted to do was run someone over and run her boat up on a dock. But she did, she didn't know what she was doing. She was afraid of her boat, she thought she needed to be moving a certain speed to control it, and she reacted badly by adding so much power to avoid the boarder that she ran her over AND ran her boat up on a dock.

I never move near things any faster than I would want to hit that thing. This means very slowly, and near people (swimmers, boarders, canoes, paddle boats, kayaks), either very slowly, or not at all until the person moves far enough away and it is safe to move again.

Your problem is that you think you need to attain some magic speed before your boat is controllable. That is not true, if you can't "nudge" your boat in a direction, or hold your boat stationary in a breeze, then you need to find someone to show you how to do so. You are the problem, not me.

The danger is not a random paddle boarder near a dock for a few minutes, the danger is boaters who do not know how to drive their boats. If you are in fear, or worried about driving your boat or operating your boat in close quarters, find someone to help you learn, read a book on how to handle a boat and get out and practice.

We will simply have to agree to disagree on too many aspects rather than to keep burning electrons and getting no where. I proposed a specific scenario and its either one you don not believe exists, or you believe is easily overcome and not a risk. So be it.

I will live with my respect for the power and mass of my boat and my fear of the shockingly dangerous actions I see others doing, and you will have to live with your confidence that you will never find yourself in a situation that is not 100% within you ability to control.

I hope you are right and you never find yourself in such a predicament where you need to apply constant power (not just bumping in and out of gear) to exit a dock with a strong cross wind or waves from someone on the bay in a wake boat sending waves your way or both at the same time AND a paddle boarder with the wind to their back passing at the very end of the dock blocked from view by another boat tied up at the end of the other side of the dock. Does this happen often, nope. Can it happen, yes, I have seen it more than once a season and I am not there every day, so it is a reality.

Best of luck practicing safe boating.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

We will simply have to agree to disagree on too many aspects rather than to keep burning electrons and getting no where. I proposed a specific scenario and its either one you don not believe exists, or you believe is easily overcome and not a risk. So be it.

I will live with my respect for the power and mass of my boat and my fear of the shockingly dangerous actions I see others doing, and you will have to live with your confidence that you will never find yourself in a situation that is not 100% within you ability to control.

I hope you are right and you never find yourself in such a predicament where you need to apply constant power (not just bumping in and out of gear) to exit a dock with a strong cross wind or waves from someone on the bay in a wake boat sending waves your way or both at the same time AND a paddle boarder with the wind to their back passing at the very end of the dock blocked from view by another boat tied up at the end of the other side of the dock. Does this happen often, nope. Can it happen, yes, I have seen it more than once a season and I am not there every day, so it is a reality.

Best of luck practicing safe boating.

All those situations you list are just an everyday part of boating.

Do you just whip out from a parking spot in your car when your view is blocked by an object and hope that you won't hit something? I doubt it, but that is what you are saying above that you do in a boat.

Move no faster when in close to an object than you would want to be moving if you hit it. Take those words to heart, that is how you should be operating your boat, it removes almost all fear from boating. You keep saying "constant power", I don't know what boat you have, but in my boat, that gets me going too fast in close, and my experience this is true with almost all recreational boats.

I'm telling you that you need to work on maneuvering your boat slowly, I can tell from how you post, you are afraid and you don't need to be. Start by going to an area that is not busy, throw a life jacket in the water, move a few hundred feet away, then approach it slowly. Keep it in sight and bring to spot a few feet away where you can see it, then keep it in that spot for a minute or two. Then find a dock, bring the bow of the nose just up to the dock, but don't touch, try to hold it there. Back off and do it again. Figure out how to angle the boat based on conditions so you can hold it there without moving more than a foot or two. Nudge the power as you need to keep the boat under control. Being able to do this will make paddle boarders no big deal regardless of where they are. It will also make your feeling that you have be going a certain speed to maintain control go away.

Finally, find a u shaped dock, and back into it, that is the real test of boat control.

Being able to do these things will help you realize that maintaining boat control is not a function of maintaining a certain power level. Power actually has nothing to do with it. I've said that I go no faster in close than I want to be going if I hit something. Which is probably a very slow walk speed. The amount of power I need to MAINTAIN THAT SPEED is not a constant. On a windless, waveless day it may be a short nudge that moves me 100 feet at that slow walk speed. On a day when the wind is howling it may be constant power to MAINTAIN THAT SPEED. The danger is not a random paddle boarder near a dock for a few minutes, the danger is boaters who do not know how to drive their boats. If you are in fear, or worried about driving your boat or operating your boat in close quarters, find someone to help you learn, read a book on how to handle a boat and get out and practice. The point is maintaining that slow speed and control. Not maintaining a power level.

The only thing I really fear while boating is someone who doesn't know how to operate their boat getting all puckered up near me, thinking they need more power and running me over.

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Sorry ANYONE who operates any powerful motorized vehicle and says they have no fear of running over a paddle boarder/bicyclist/pedestrian/ect should not be behind the wheel. Operating boats and cars on public roads and waterways is not NASCAR you need to keep a healthy dose of concern front an center. There is no place for arrogant operators that believe they can do no wrong. This is just foolish and irresponsible soapbox grandstanding.

Its no wonder we dont have far more accidents with attitudes like that.

I agree with this as well. I was just going by people using the word fear. Either way. There are always multiple sides of looking at things. I always find that people have to look at both sides.
I am a type of person that will usually bring the second side of things to look at. So I believe in everything that wrote about banning 30' boats? no, but there is no way Paddlers should also be banned.

[fatlazyless]

From the U.S. Coast Guard, the Coast Guard considers a stand up paddle board to be a vessel which I suppose means something like it is a boat somewhat similar to a sit-on-top kayak and not just a water toy or water float. So an 11'6" x 32" sup that weighs 35-lbs and is paddled can share the waters with motor boats ..... lots-o-luck ....

What is still not known is the capability of the boat driver. Was it a rental pontoon. Is she an experienced motor boater or just a first time driver?

The same questions apply to the paddle boarder as well?

Paddle boards and motor boats sharing the same waters is obviously somewhat of a crazy situation and most paddle boarders know to stay away from the motor boat traffic. Is like a no-brainer and very obvious as to where NOT to go on a paddle board. Paddle boards tend to stay close to the shore just like kayaks unless they have a death wish or don't know what's what with motor boats. You paddle in water spaces where the motor boats don't go due to shallow water, rocks, and lake geography.

Is a sup a vessel or is it just a water toy? Well ...... the U.S.C.G. says that a sup is a vessel so good luck with sups and motor boats sharing the same water spaces.

Here in New Hampshire, the Fish and Game boat launch ramps all across the state are off-limits to swimmers and for bathing. A sup with a paddler is considered to be a vessel by the U.S. Coast Guard so paddle boarders may use the Fish and Game boat launches to access the water and then, after paddling away from the launch ramp, is ok to use the paddle board like a swim raft for swimming and bathing. So, how does this all work in the real world of NH boat launch areas?

"You know that you can be right, but you can also be dead right" is a saying that applies to running a yellow light at a stop light while driving a car, and it also applies to paddling a stand up paddleboard in an area of a NH lake that has a lot of motorboat traffic. Slow moving stand up paddle boards and motorboats going faster than no-wake speed are not a very good combination. The two should pretty much be exclusive of one another and kept a safe distance apart to avoid a collision between the two.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

From the U.S. Coast Guard, the Coast Guard considers a stand up paddle board to be a vessel which I suppose means something like it is a boat somewhat similar to a sit-on-top kayak and not just a water toy or water float. So an 11'6" x 32" sup that weighs 35-lbs and is paddled can share the waters with motor boats ..... lots-o-luck ....

What is still not known is the capability of the boat driver. Was it a rental pontoon. Is she an experienced motor boater or just a first time driver?

The same questions apply to the paddle boarder as well?

Paddle boards and motor boats sharing the same waters is obviously somewhat of a crazy situation and most paddle boarders know to stay away from the motor boat traffic. Is like a no-brainer and very obvious as to where NOT to go on a paddle board. Paddle boards tend to stay close to the shore just like kayaks unless they have a death wish or don't know what's what with motor boats. You paddle in water spaces where the motor boats don't go due to shallow water, rocks, and lake geography.

Thats not helping in the least, I had hoped a reasonable person would at a minimum have advocated for the paddle boarders to wear a safety noodle belt, or possible for all boaters to keep a noodle belt onboard so that in the event of an accident the belt could be tossed to anyone in the water.

Given your years of experience and number of noodle posts, I had hoped to possibly see something creative, like paddle boarders should ways carry a noodle to help them measure out a safe distance from the docks. 3 - 4 noodle lengths seems like a good minimum buffer.

Maybe something else,,,

Well its no fun at all if I have to come up with all the noodle inserts AND have to generate all the standards of the duel.

I might just as well get a lawn chair and sit at the Meredith launch and just watch all the boaters practicing their backing into U-shaped docks and such. At least that would be entertaining,,, NOT.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

The world seems to be just brimming full with self-proclaimed perfect human specimens.

I cant wait until the little green men come down and ask to see our role models, I'll know just where to point them for perfect boat operator.

Whoa--he has simply underlined that a captain is responsible for his craft. This is fundamental to boats...cars...guns (as you point out on the other thread re: "responsible")

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Whoa--he has simply underlined that a captain is responsible for his craft. This is fundamental to boats...cars...guns (as you point out on the other thread re: "responsible")

There is no such thing as 100% responsible for operation of a boat, gun, car.

CRAZY things happen all the time that are beyond the reasonable limits of the operators control.

People constantly ignore dont walk signs and step out in front of cars that are properly moving and will not be able stop and so pedestrians get hit all the time, NOT the car operators fault.

Someone was recently shot while screwing around and not where they were supposed to be at the end of a rifle range when it was actively being used and got hit by a ricochet, NOT the fault of the shooter.

A novice or day renter kayaker/paddle boarder who does something they should not do like cutting in front of a moving boat exiting a dock by hugging the end of the dock and ends up harmed by another boater, has created a situation you cannot blame the boater for. If you have me on that jury you are going to find me stuck on not responsible to be able to prevent such an accident.

In cases where someone has been injured and was doing something common sense says in dangerous and created the situation, I will not point the finger of blame at the party that under other circumstances is normally the responsible individual.

If you sit on the same jury with me, you can vote however you like and it will deadlock if necessary. Such is life.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

There is no such thing as 100% responsible for operation of a boat, gun, car.

We can all run out of luck at some point, but don't cloud the issue with extreme cases like "100%". There have been several deaths on the lake over the past several years, I'm pretty sure there was pilot error, including taking too much risk, in each. (correct me if I'm wrong)

If you are not prepared to accept responsibility for something that can be lethal; don't captain a boat, drive a car, or buy a gun.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

We can all run out of luck at some point, but don't cloud the issue with extreme cases like "100%". There have been several deaths on the lake over the past several years, I'm pretty sure there was pilot error, including taking too much risk, in each. (correct me if I'm wrong)

I agree with you that in some of the cases there probably were clear problems with operator error, and in other cases no not "at fault" ;-)

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

If you are not prepared to accept responsibility for something that can be lethal; don't captain a boat, drive a car, or buy a gun.

And absolutely not if you were not in the wrong. Just because you were the operator you are not always responsible. Each case MUST be evaluated honestly and a determination what happened an who caused it. And when no clear cause can be determined you cannot place blame. Its a cornerstone of our faith in the American legal system; "innocent until proven guilt" NOT guilty until proven innocent. Its that reverse logic you are applying that too often costs innocent people everything they own to prove their innocence.

We must be responsible for "OUR" actions, we are not just responsible because we were there or just because we were the operator. Does anyone remember all the cars where the throttle accelerated the car or would not release (Audi - Toyota - etc) or the Firestone tires that exploded??? These drivers were NOT at fault for a failure their cars and tires got recalled over after several serious events.

Personal responsibility for personal actions, not for things beyond your control. Thats a game for ambulance chasing lawyers looking for cash.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by ITD

Learn how to drive your boat. If you can't handle a 30 foot boat in close quarters with out hitting a paddle boarder and running up on a dock, then you are the problem. This is a boat driver problem, not a paddle board problem.

OK so when I am driving down the road and somebody not looking steps out in front of me and I plow them over it is my fault?

Paddle boards are fundamentally unstable platforms - even more so with rookie users on them. You can be very careful around them but in the end you have no idea if, when, or what direction they could go or operator fall into the water. Unlike a car, a boat ain't got brakes either so to any captain even a seasoned one, a quick over reaction to an unexpected set of circumstances could cause even more havok in a domino effect (think chain reaction car crash).

Now compound that with a rookie boat captain and the situation is that much worse. You'd think this is common sense but apparently not.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

OK so when I am driving down the road and somebody not looking steps out in front of me and I plow them over it is my fault?

Paddle boards are fundamentally unstable platforms - even more so with rookie users on them. You can be very careful around them but in the end you have no idea if, when, or what direction they could go or operator fall into the water. Unlike a car, a boat ain't got brakes either so to any captain even a seasoned one, a quick over reaction to an unexpected set of circumstances could cause even more havok in a domino effect (think chain reaction car crash).

Now compound that with a rookie boat captain and the situation is that much worse. You'd think this is common sense but apparently not.

Look, this was a paddle board, near a dock, and a lady who lost her wits, ran over the boarder and ended up on top of a dock.

The car equivalent would be a shopper walking out of Walmart and you running him over. You would be responsible because you were going too fast to stop in time, or you were distracted where you should have been paying attention. Or maybe you hit the gas when you wanted to hit the brakes, still your fault.

Boats can stop, the key is to be at a reasonable speed for the situation. Going any faster than a very slow walking speed in close to a dock is asking for trouble.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Paddle boards are fundamentally unstable platforms - even more so with rookie users on them. You can be very careful around them but in the end you have no idea if, when, or what direction they could go or operator fall into the water.

Definitely a valid point.