Home Owners Associations (HOA's)

[SAB1]

Pretty common thread in society these days. Many think they have or should have “rights” they don’t have. You don’t have look much further than watching the news to see it….

[C-Bass]

They have been pushing that in Suissevale for the last few years, just a vocal minority. A rotating lottery would make no sense if I lose it every other year or every third year. What would I do in the off year? I don't even have a trailer for it. I have a prime slip at Ambrose, I would never get that back if I gave it up. If I lost my slip every few years, it's not like I could go just go back and get another slip for that year. I hear the waiting list is a mile long for a slip there. No Thank you.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by C-Bass

They have been pushing that in Suissevale for the last few years, just a vocal minority. A rotating lottery would make no sense if I lose it every other year or every third year. What would I do in the off year? I don't even have a trailer for it. I have a prime slip at Ambrose, I would never get that back if I gave it up. If I lost my slip every few years, it's not like I could go just go back and get another slip for that year. I hear the waiting list is a mile long for a slip there. No Thank you.

We have had a place in Suissevale for 17 years. We will never see a dock. The problem at Suissevale is two-fold- that they have allowed dock holders to stay in control of their docks even after ownership changed (from an owner to a family trust) and the fee is ridiculously low so there is no incentive to give them up.

We also have a slip in Ambrose Cove, but at 4X the cost of a Suissevale dock.

[C-Bass]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

We have had a place in Suissevale for 17 years. We will never see a dock. The problem at Suissevale is two-fold- that they have allowed dock holders to stay in control of their docks even after ownership changed (from an owner to a family trust) and the fee is ridiculously low so there is no incentive to give them up.

We also have a slip in Ambrose Cove, but at 4X the cost of a Suissevale dock.

Yeah I don't like what they do with passing it down to family members, I have been there 10yrs and I will never see a slip either.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

We have had a place in Suissevale for 17 years. We will never see a dock. The problem at Suissevale is two-fold- that they have allowed dock holders to stay in control of their docks even after ownership changed (from an owner to a family trust) and the fee is ridiculously low so there is no incentive to give them up.

We also have a slip in Ambrose Cove, but at 4X the cost of a Suissevale dock.

Passing it down through the family is pretty crazy. At our HOA, it's connected to the owner/registration and if that changes, it's released to the next person on the list. We're much smaller than Suissevale—150 vs. ?—and it's only a couple years or so long at this point.

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[ITD]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

We have had a place in Suissevale for 17 years. We will never see a dock. The problem at Suissevale is two-fold- that they have allowed dock holders to stay in control of their docks even after ownership changed (from an owner to a family trust) and the fee is ridiculously low so there is no incentive to give them up.

We also have a slip in Ambrose Cove, but at 4X the cost of a Suissevale dock.

I can see it staying with the property, but are you saying people sell their properties and keep the docks? Pretty sure that doesn't pass the smell test.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by ITD

I can see it staying with the property, but are you saying people sell their properties and keep the docks? Pretty sure that doesn't pass the smell test.

No, the original homeowner, who has a dock, puts their house into trust which means the dock never goes back into the pool pool of available docks. Docks at Suissevale are owned by the HOA. Going into trust is effectively an ownership change IMO but that is not how Suissevale sees it!

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

No, the original homeowner, who has a dock, puts their house into trust which means the dock never goes back into the pool pool of available docks. Docks at Suissevale are owned by the HOA. Going into trust is effectively an ownership change IMO but that is not how Suissevale sees it!

This is an interesting, complex issue. A homeowner who is, say, 50 years old, might decide to put his home into a trust as part of his estate planning. His plan is to continue to control and use the home as before. He dies 40 years later and his kids continue the family tradition of using the house for another 30 years, then pass it to their kids....

The original transfer into the trust is a change in ownership legally, but not in the day to day reality of what's going on. Your real complaint is not until the guy dies 40 years later. But of course, there is no ownership change at that point. Basically, Suissevale has given the docks to families in perpetuity

I'm guessing the trust transfer is OK because the HOA views it as a related entity? The original homeowner would not be allowed to sell to an unrelated party?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

This is an interesting, complex issue. A homeowner who is, say, 50 years old, might decide to put his home into a trust as part of his estate planning. His plan is to continue to control and use the home as before. He dies 40 years later and his kids continue the family tradition of using the house for another 30 years, then pass it to their kids....

The original transfer into the trust is a change in ownership legally, but not in the day to day reality of what's going on. Your real complaint is not until the guy dies 40 years later. But of course, there is no ownership change at that point. Basically, Suissevale has given the docks to families in perpetuity

I'm guessing the trust transfer is OK because the HOA views it as a related entity? The original homeowner would not be allowed to sell to an unrelated party?

That exactly the issue! It is tricky.

[Swimwithamission]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Pretty common thread in society these days. Many think they have or should have “rights” they don’t have. You don’t have look much further than watching the news to see it….

That is the issue with HOA's in New Hampshire, pay your dues and get little or no member rights including:

• Lack of transparency in spending and bidding of work.
• Lack of access to HOA financial records and expenses.
• Board of Directors changing covenants without member input or voting.
• Lack of Fiduciary responsibility of BOD member(s).

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Swimwithamission

That is the issue with HOA's in New Hampshire, pay your dues and get little or no member rights including:

• Lack of transparency in spending and bidding of work.
• Lack of access to HOA financial records and expenses.
• Board of Directors changing covenants without member input or voting.
• Lack of Fiduciary responsibility of BOD member(s).

To your list I would add the overarching issue of people within a given HOA not sharing a common set of values and decision criteria on maintenance and other spending. If you knew you'd agree with the Board 80-90%, you wouldn't care about the other stuff

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Swimwithamission

That is the issue with HOA's in New Hampshire, pay your dues and get little or no member rights including:

• Lack of transparency in spending and bidding of work.
• Lack of access to HOA financial records and expenses.
• Board of Directors changing covenants without member input or voting.
• Lack of Fiduciary responsibility of BOD member(s).

Usually, I'd expect that these issues ould be looked at before buying. Caveat Emptor. I'm part of one HOA that was a start up when we bought, so no history to look at. The first several years were a little rough and we changed management companies more than once. The struggle comes when the BoD wants to do too much themselves, does a poor job and then tries to hide it all.
When they start saying' We can do all that ourselves and save money" It's time for new management and a new BoD and probably an increase in fees.

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by Swimwithamission

That is the issue with HOA's in New Hampshire, pay your dues and get little or no member rights including:

• Lack of transparency in spending and bidding of work.
• Lack of access to HOA financial records and expenses.
• Board of Directors changing covenants without member input or voting.
• Lack of Fiduciary responsibility of BOD member(s).

All depends on what you buy into. When I looked into Associations back in ‘01 I quickly determined any association that didn’t provide me with deeded dock was out. Took work but we found several and were lucky enuff to get in one.