Breakthrough infections

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

What a remarkable coincidence that this happened to a person in the midst of a lawyer-led vaccine resistance campaign....and nowhere else in the world. I look forward to following his lawsuit.

You might want to Google "lives saved by covid vaccine", and/or "risks of covid vaccine" to get a fuller picture

I’m sure that will make his kids feel much better…..

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I’m sure that will make his kids feel much better…..

I'm sure the 175,000 kids who have lost their parents to Covid feel just as good.

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[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I got my flu shot today and am hoping they've upgraded the microchips to 5G.

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Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I'm sure the 175,000 kids who have lost their parents to Covid feel just as good.

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And this is why this matter will never have agreement, more bogus numbers.

Every person that died and tested positive for COVID did not necessarily die from COVID, nor can you say they would have lived if they were vaccinated. Those will always be unknown numbers.

This is fearmongering of the worst kind and is whats stopping the country from moving forward, NOT any measure of vaccinate rates!

[TKD]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

And this is why this matter will never have agreement, more bogus numbers.

Every person that died and tested positive for COVID did not necessarily die from COVID, nor can you say they would have lived if they were vaccinated. Those will always be unknown numbers.

This is fearmongering of the worst kind and is whats stopping the country from moving forward, NOT any measure of vaccinate rates!

You are 100% correct! Covey wrote about “first seek to understand, then be understood”. Unless it fits their narrative, some just don’t want to understand there is another side. Thanks for fighting the fight…

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by TKD

You are 100% correct! Covey wrote about “first seek to understand, then be understood”. Unless it fits their narrative, some just don’t want to understand there is another side. Thanks for fighting the fight…

I only wish I could take credit for being right, but the real truth is there is not "right" about the vaccine being the best choice for everyone.

The truth of the matter is we have roughly 100 years of experience with vaccines, in evolutionary time that nothing, not even a sneeze.

And only in the last 50 years have we gotten kinda ok with it, but we certainly have not perfected this science.

And so when we say abracadabra presto boom with in months we have created a near 100% perfect vaccine that is the best thing for everyone, oh and everyone must take it or it wont work, then everyone should raise at least one eyebrow.

I find it amazing that so many here will tell you about the studies, and groups who have certified the vaccine as the best thing since we learned to wash our hands with soap before surgery, and that was less that 200 years ago,,,

The interweb is a wonderful invention, if you search you will find credible medical and scientific people saying the vaccine is much better then natural immunity, and then you will find equally credible medical and scientific people telling you natural immunity is much more effective than any vaccine. Sorry, there is not absolute in this based on our current level of science.

Bottom line is the vaccine is not a cure, it is not near 100% effective, it is not right for everyone NO ONE SHOULD BE FORCED TO TAKE IT.

The vaccine is a bandaid!

Now sometimes a bandaid is really good thing and it can be a life saver, but you cannot say with 100% surety that in this situation where the long term studies are not yet completed, and the world is so politically motivated, that we can stand on the soap box and demand everyone get vaccinated or they must be isolated from the rest of the world or untold countless people will die. We truly have no idea at this point in time how many have actually died from COVID as the data is so manipulated it is beyond excusable. A husband and wife murder-suicide who both had COVID and were both listed as COVID deaths, countless cancer patients who were on their deathbeds and tested positive for COVID were listed as COVID deaths, people who died in car accidents were listed as COVID deaths. Its become a political game with peopled lives being used as game pieces.

This is a medical and scientific and political nightmare.

The best we all can do is follow our own instinct, and practice common sense and stop worrying about the other guy.

If the vaccine is only effective if everyone gets it, then it is a failure as you will never reach 100% vaccination.

I personally think it is a tool in the tool box and probably a good one for most to have, its like a good adjustable wrench, but maybe not as good as a vice grip, and clearly it is not the one tool everyone need.

Get vaccinated or dont, but dont impose your medical fear and demands on anyone else.

I can only imagine how much uproar there would be if business owners and teachers and countless others started saying they refused to be around the vaccinated for any reason, the screams of mistreatment and injustice and discrimination would be deafening.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

The best we all can do is follow our own instinct, and practice common sense and stop worrying about the other guy.

Whoa.

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[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Whoa.

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You dont have to agree, just dont attempt to impose your fears or preferences on me, it wont sit well.

Oh, and your instinct can be for you to be vaccinated, and theres nothing wrong with encouraging others to be vaccinated, just not forced and not isolated/denied access/discriminated against because they chose not to.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

You dont have to agree, just dont attempt to impose your fears or preferences on me, it wont sit well.

Oh, and your instinct can be for you to be vaccinated, and theres nothing wrong with encouraging others to be vaccinated, just not forced and not isolated/denied access/discriminated against because they chose not to.

Again. If they have a choice, others have the choice not to interact with them if they choose. A choose must go both ways.

It is like in business, you have the choice to do as your employer wishes... and they have the choice to fire you should you not.

You have a choice to comply with the wishes of the business owner or the choice to go elsewhere.

I watched this at the Meredith McDonald's when they had their customer mask mandate. I had the choice to wear a mask, or use the drive through. Other than that, I could eat elsewhere.

They left the choice to me... but only a few felt they were being discriminated against because they could not enter without the mask.
If they wanted proof of vaccination, then I would need to show my card, use the drive through, or go elsewhere.

People are given lots of choices... but the choices have consequences.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

And this is why this matter will never have agreement, more bogus numbers.

Every person that died and tested positive for COVID did not necessarily die from COVID, nor can you say they would have lived if they were vaccinated. Those will always be unknown numbers.

This is fearmongering of the worst kind and is whats stopping the country from moving forward, NOT any measure of vaccinate rates!

OTOH, maybe the reason we will never have agreement is the dismissal of things before they are understood--as our penpal TKD just pointed out.

The reason we "know" is that the numbers were published and peer-reviewed in the Journal of Pediatrics, a well respected source. They do not include non-covid deaths from people who tested positive. If you think they are bogus, please read the report and tell us specifically why.