Current Covid situation in New Hampshire

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Apocalyptic? Really???


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Yes. I wrote "apocalyptic, at least by modern standards", which is a bit of a metaphor.

We're at close to 5,000,000 dead worldwide, over 700,000 in the US. I think the last time that many people died of anything, it was WWII. Plus this cuts across all demographics, and impacts all of our social, educational, and economic systems. I was not old enough to understand Vietnam's impact, but this has had more negative impact than anything in the past 50 years. So I'm OK with calling it apocalyptic by modern standards.

[mswlogo]

Interesting graphic comparing the death toll of past pandemics.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/his...ics-deadliest/

[trfour]

Fact Check = https://www.bing.com/search?q=Fact+C...ANNTA1&PC=HCTS

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Yes. I wrote "apocalyptic, at least by modern standards", which is a bit of a metaphor.

We're at close to 5,000,000 dead worldwide, over 700,000 in the US. I think the last time that many people died of anything, it was WWII. Plus this cuts across all demographics, and impacts all of our social, educational, and economic systems. I was not old enough to understand Vietnam's impact, but this has had more negative impact than anything in the past 50 years. So I'm OK with calling it apocalyptic by modern standards.

So would you consider cancer heart disease or diabetes apocalyptic also? And yes many many many people have died from Covid but also the numbers are extremely skewed with many many people that died with Covid but not of Covid. Also the numbers need to be compared with flu deaths because as you know those deaths have dropped precipitously


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[XCR-700]

Interesting that the the fact check business has become such a huge industry that for some organizations it a full time business. Thats you first tip off that misinformation in the media is horrifyingly prevalent.

What I find most interesting is that people believe the fact checkers as if they are some infallible resource or that they embody a far greater level of integrity than their fellow media hacks or the politicians.

So what exactly makes them any authority? Who certifies that they are any more honest than anyone else making money on all this?? What on earth would make you think anything they say is any more accurate than anyone else???

Thats the beauty of the interweb, anyone can become an "influencer" simply by self-presenting as having any knowledge of anything.

Facts are no longer stubborn things, they are now simply words with altered meanings for whatever purpose you wish to promote.

And the truth is something not widely known by most people about almost any matter, as information becomes constantly manipulated for whatever purpose the communicator desires.

All most people are left with is common sense to help them decipher any situation they may assess. And since the invention of the interweb, even common sense is in decline.

So believe what you want, if some feel better believing 700,000 died of COVID (as opposed to "with" COVID) then I hope it serves your purpose and fulfills your needs whatever they are.

I chose to believe COVID is a serious matter and an infection you do not want, but it is not an apocalypse and not something to live in constant fear of, and certainly does not warrant the actions and mandates being imposed.

Most of this is a manipulation to shift huge quantities of money into others pockets, and to seize power over the masses.

Your opinions will vary.

[8gv]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Interesting that the the fact check business has become such a huge industry that for some organizations it a full time business. Thats you first tip off that misinformation in the media is horrifyingly prevalent.

What I find most interesting is that people believe the fact checkers as if they are some infallible resource or that they embody a far greater level of integrity than their fellow media hacks or the politicians.

So what exactly makes them any authority? Who certifies that they are any more honest than anyone else making money on all this?? What on earth would make you think anything they say is any more accurate than anyone else???

Thats the beauty of the interweb, anyone can become an "influencer" simply by self-presenting as having any knowledge of anything.

Facts are no longer stubborn things, they are now simply words with altered meanings for whatever purpose you wish to promote.

And the truth is something not widely known by most people about almost any matter, as information becomes constantly manipulated for whatever purpose the communicator desires.

All most people are left with is common sense to help them decipher any situation they may assess. And since the invention of the interweb, even common sense is in decline.

So believe what you want, if some feel better believing 700,000 died of COVID (as opposed to "with" COVID) then I hope it serves your purpose and fulfills your needs whatever they are.

I chose to believe COVID is a serious matter and an infection you do not want, but it is not an apocalypse and not something to live in constant fear of, and certainly does not warrant the actions and mandates being imposed.

Most of this is a manipulation to shift huge quantities of money into others pockets, and to seize power over the masses.

Your opinions will vary.

I concur.

The difficulty today is partisan media.

We cannot be there to witness events so we must rely on what we are presented.

What gets presented and how it gets presented matters.

Striving for clicks rather than a reputation of integrity is diminishing what was once a watch dog of how we are governed.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by joey2665

So would you consider cancer heart disease or diabetes apocalyptic also? And yes many many many people have died from Covid but also the numbers are extremely skewed with many many people that died with Covid but not of Covid. Also the numbers need to be compared with flu deaths because as you know those deaths have dropped precipitously


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Let’s do that

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Let’s do that

Now compare to previous years flu deaths prior to Covid


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[Pine Island Guy]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Now compare to previous years flu deaths prior to Covid

ok - listed below from the CDC (a total of 28,000 deaths in 2018/2019 flu season)

and as far as I know, doctors or medical examiners list the cause of death, not all the other ailments the person may have had... If someone is on their last days with Parkinson's... and gets run over by a car... that is the cause of death, not the Parkinson's... same with Covid... just because someone has stage 4 cancer with maybe months to live... if they get Covid and are being treated for it, and they die from the associated respiratory complications... Covid is the cause of death... they didn't die "with it"... they died "from it"

It is still a beautiful time on the lake, went for a (short) swim yesterday! -PIG

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Now compare to previous years flu deaths prior to Covid


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Read the chart carefully.

It is saying,
If you get the Flu and you are over 65 the odds of dying is about 1 in 120.
If you get COVID and you are over 65 the odds of dying is about 1 in 10.
If you get COVID and you are over 75 the odds of dying is about 1 in 5.
If you get COVID and you are over 85 the odds of dying is about 1 in 3.

Yeah, it's just like the Flu.

Note: This is before vaccines.

Yes, people die of complications from COVID because your body can't cope with it's current issues and COVID.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by joey2665

So would you consider cancer heart disease or diabetes apocalyptic also? And yes many many many people have died from Covid but also the numbers are extremely skewed with many many people that died with Covid but not of Covid. Also the numbers need to be compared with flu deaths because as you know those deaths have dropped precipitously


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It's kind of silly that when someone you generally agree with spills thousands of words, you thank him repeatedly, even when many of those words are obviously wrong, and when I borrow one of his words in response, all of a sudden you're Merriam Webster.

XCR wrote the predicted "apocalypse" did not happen. This was obviously wrong--what happened is much worse than predicted based on number of deaths. Go back and look at 2020 predictions or even predictions from June of this year.

Cancer, heart disease, and diabetes have all taken a terrible death toll on this country and most of our families. If I had to chose, I'd rather covid than any of those. But this is a false choice, we can't choose.

Also funny that you mention flu deaths. COVID's killed something like 10X of a really bad flu year. I'm pretty sure you told us last year, or at least thanked someone who did, that COVID is no worse than the flu. You might want to move off of this now that the data are in

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

It's kind of silly that when someone you generally agree with spills thousands of words, you thank him repeatedly, even when many of those words are obviously wrong, and when I borrow one of his words in response, all of a sudden you're Merriam Webster.

XCR wrote the predicted "apocalypse" did not happen. This was obviously wrong--what happened is much worse than predicted based on number of deaths. Go back and look at 2020 predictions or even predictions from June of this year.

Cancer, heart disease, and diabetes have all taken a terrible death toll on this country and most of our families. If I had to chose, I'd rather covid than any of those. But this is a false choice, we can't choose.

Also funny that you mention flu deaths. COVID's killed something like 10X of a really bad flu year. I'm pretty sure you told us last year, or at least thanked someone who did, that COVID is no worse than the flu. You might want to move off of this now that the data are in

Most people that are listed as dying from the flu are really dying prematurely from complications caused by it... pretty much the same as covid. Because covid is new, the population doesn't have a lifetime of built in resistance to it. The early predictions was as stated. The concept was that if all 330 millions of Americans were to be infected, we would lose roughly 2 million. That would place it at about a 6/10ths mortality rate... something current infection rates bear out.
With a very high R Naught, the lack of mitigation would also result in more deaths due to the strained health care system, something that also became reality in certain areas of the country.

It is really a waste of time for them to discuss because any mandate will not be voted on by the population, and most of the population has immunized and will not feel compelled to concern themselves with those that choose not to.

Lost time is real, hospitalization isn't free. Even when it comes to flu these are big ticket items.

Getting a flu shot cost a couple bucks, lying in an ICU bed for a couple days cost thousands. Lost time results in overtime to the employer. Between overtime and rising insurance premiums... employers will need to balance out the cost to their companies, so it really is a mute discussion.

[Winnisquamer]

This forum have anything else to discuss besides for this way overplayed topic? We get it, some of you are petrified to leave the house as you’re going to 1000% die if you get it according to some, and the other half don’t care are all…ok so we’ve established that. Check mark.

Let’s go back to enjoying the lake. Heck I’d even take some miserable NIMBY posts over Covid at this point.

[XCR-700]

Now lets compare flu deaths to deaths FROM COVID, not the the CDC numbers of deaths of people WITH COVID. Then you will see a startling difference.

I do not intend to debate why they are listing people who died with COVID in the way we normally list deaths from other causes, but we must acknowledge that the current COVID death count is not the same as we use for other types of deaths we track.

And when we look at the numbers (when you can find them) of actual deaths FROM COVID, they are much lower than deaths of people WITH COVID.

In the end, most of this is pointless and for average citizen, then numbers serve NO legitimate purpose except to scare you. (someones goal)

This COVID conversation need to stop, and people need to move on.

Practice common sense in all you do, get vaccines if its right for you, and stop all the stress over everything that will kill you as there are countless ways to die. Drinking too much water will kill you, drinking contaminated water will kill you, and the list is literally endless.

Its time for the COVID mandates to end, the media coverage to end, and fear to end, and its time for people to live and not in fear.

ATB

[John Mercier]

The mandates are not going to go away.
We will all just have to adjust to whatever the mandates cover in some way or another.

[TKD]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The mandates are not going to go away.

We will all just have to adjust to whatever the mandates cover in some way or another.

Or we don’t. This isn’t Russia (or is it?).

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by TKD

Or we don’t. This isn’t Russia (or is it?).

In the Lakes Region, the restrictions are few, but that dirty old mask at the bottom of your pocket still comes in handy once in a while. Until the threat is passed, you DO have to comply with certain mandates. You won't be going into a medical facility or airliners without a mask. Some schools and employers mandate masks and/or vaccines as a condition of attendance or employment. Some businesses close for a while after an outbreak. The freedom to be a potential health risk to others is higher in the US that in most countries, but exercising that freedom comes with restrictions based on the freedom of others. Is this Russia? Not at all. Russian influence has been pretty successful in using misinformation to manipulate public discussion, but vaccine and mask mandates are as American as apple pie.

[Woodsy]

I have a huge problem with the Feds mandating a medical procedure... this is such a slippery slope!

Woodsy

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I have a huge problem with the Feds mandating a medical procedure... this is such a slippery slope!

Woodsy

Schools have long required vaccinations. Is this any different? If states were issuing the mandates, would that make it acceptable? Also, if a business requires its employees to be vaccinated, is this ok?

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Garcia

Schools have long required vaccinations. Is this any different? If states were issuing the mandates, would that make it acceptable? Also, if a business requires its employees to be vaccinated, is this ok?

To be truthful... I think this is all a very slippery slope. I firmly believe it should be up to the individual or in the case of children the parents when it comes to medical decisions and especially getting this particular vaccine. This is not a vax in the traditional sense where they use a live/dead virus. While the research into MRNA technology has been going on for awhile, this is still a brand new technology when it comes to actual use in humans. This is a vax that was developed/"tested"/released in under a year... that is crazy fast when it comes to medical approval for ANYTHING! IMHO, the law of unintended consequences will eventually rear its ugly head.

I am very skeptical when a government uses the excuse "common good" when it comes to anything... especially something as critical as a vax. I am even more skeptical when the government had the Covid DNA mapped in January 2020... IMHO, this is a man made "gain of function" virus, hence the rapid mutations. Up next Delta+

I can dive way deeper, but I will just say that if the vax was that effective we would not be seeing an almost 30% so called breakthrough infections.

I don't think a persons employer has ANY right to offer an opinion on an individuals medical decisions, for the same reasons stated above.

If a government can mandate this vax, they can soon start mandating/forcing lots of other health decisions in the name of "common good".

Woodsy

[John Mercier]

The employer does not offer an opinion.
They set the terms of the employment agreement.

It is never ''opinion''; you either meet the standard or you don't.

In NH, we call it ''Employed-At-Will''.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The employer does not offer an opinion.
They set the terms of the employment agreement.

It is never ''opinion''; you either meet the standard or you don't.

In NH, we call it ''Employed-At-Will''.

In Russia they call it "taking a week off with pay", Oct 30 to Nov 7, 2021, a Vladimir Putin method to stop the corona virus from spreading any worse in Russia.

How's about that, comrade! ..... ...... Wonder how much Russian rubles the Russians will actually be getting to stay home and not be working? .....

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Business/w...dered-80681257

This linked ABC report says that four of these days are already federal holidays which include Ground Forces Day, the Day for the Russian Army, on November 1.

[8gv]

Were I in a job that mandated vaccination to go along with the desires of our federal government and I din't want the vaccination I would absolutely let them fire me.

Quitting one's job might take away standing in subsequent litigation.

I chose to get vaccinated because at 63 I figured that getting covid might be rough for me.

I support those who choose not get vaccinated.

My pregnant daughter in law was advised to get the shot.

She declined.

I am concerned for my daughter who was vaccinated and is in her child bearing years.

These vaccines may help against covid but whatever else they do to SOME people has yet to be discovered.

Google "Thalidomide" if you are interested in how bad it can go.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

To be truthful... I think this is all a very slippery slope. I firmly believe it should be up to the individual or in the case of children the parents when it comes to medical decisions and especially getting this particular vaccine. This is not a vax in the traditional sense where they use a live/dead virus. While the research into MRNA technology has been going on for awhile, this is still a brand new technology when it comes to actual use in humans. This is a vax that was developed/"tested"/released in under a year... that is crazy fast when it comes to medical approval for ANYTHING! IMHO, the law of unintended consequences will eventually rear its ugly head.

I am very skeptical when a government uses the excuse "common good" when it comes to anything... especially something as critical as a vax. I am even more skeptical when the government had the Covid DNA mapped in January 2020... IMHO, this is a man made "gain of function" virus, hence the rapid mutations. Up next Delta+

I can dive way deeper, but I will just say that if the vax was that effective we would not be seeing an almost 30% so called breakthrough infections.

I don't think a persons employer has ANY right to offer an opinion on an individuals medical decisions, for the same reasons stated above.

If a government can mandate this vax, they can soon start mandating/forcing lots of other health decisions in the name of "common good".

Woodsy

The J&J COVID vaccine is a traditional vaccine. Old technology, just like generations of us have been required to get to go to school, camp, etc. So unless you're also asserting that Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Tetanus, etc are also a risk to our freedom; it would seem that you'd be good with J&J

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

The J&J COVID vaccine is a traditional vaccine. Old technology, just like generations of us have been required to get to go to school, camp, etc. So unless you're also asserting that Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Tetanus, etc are also a risk to our freedom; it would seem that you'd be good with J&J

You should do your research.... instead of buying into the ad campaign. The J&J vax is a "viral vector" vax. It is another new and relatively unproven technology. To date there is only 1 viral vector vax approved here in the US.... J&J! Only 6 total approved worldwide, 4 for Covid, 2 for Ebola.

Woodsy

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

You should do your research.... instead of buying into the ad campaign. The J&J vax is a "viral vector" vax. It is another new and relatively unproven technology. To date there is only 1 viral vector vax approved here in the US.... J&J! Only 6 total approved worldwide, 4 for Covid, 2 for Ebola.

Woodsy

It's old enough for me. (Of course, mRNA was old enough for me, too, haha)

Here's more on viral vector vaccines, dating back to the 1970s

https://www.houstonmethodist.org/blo...hings-to-know/

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by TKD

Or we don’t. This isn’t Russia (or is it?).

We have had mandates before Russia ever became communist.

If your employer requires it, you make the choice to no longer be employed by them.

[TKD]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

We have had mandates before Russia ever became communist.

If your employer requires it, you make the choice to no longer be employed by them.

Since I am the employer, it makes it simple I guess. . I’ll mandate there are no mandates and not continue this insanity towards socialism.

Wonder what would the left would be saying if a Trump administration mandated all this- think it would received the same welcome response ? You all know the answer whether it would be admitted nor not.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by TKD

Since I am the employer, it makes it simple I guess. . I’ll mandate there are no mandates and not continue this insanity towards socialism.

Wonder what would the left would be saying if a Trump administration mandated all this- think it would received the same welcome response ? You all know the answer whether it would be admitted nor not.

My guess is the Trump supporters would go along and the Biden would be protesting.

But it isn't the ends of the political spectrum that make decisions.

As an employer, if you are even large enough to fall under the mandates, then you have to make a decision as to what costs to your company.
Employers risk OSHA fines all the time; they also get pretty upset when the fines get imposed. They run the risk/reward ratio every day on dozens of decisions.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

My guess is the Trump supporters would go along and the Biden would be protesting.

But it isn't the ends of the political spectrum that make decisions.

As an employer, if you are even large enough to fall under the mandates, then you have to make a decision as to what costs to your company.
Employers risk OSHA fines all the time; they also get pretty upset when the fines get imposed. They run the risk/reward ratio every day on dozens of decisions.

This Biden supporter cheered Trump's initiative on the vaccines.

This employer thought it was a no brainer to require vaccines for all

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Yes. I wrote "apocalyptic, at least by modern standards", which is a bit of a metaphor.

We're at close to 5,000,000 dead worldwide, over 700,000 in the US. I think the last time that many people died of anything, it was WWII. Plus this cuts across all demographics, and impacts all of our social, educational, and economic systems. I was not old enough to understand Vietnam's impact, but this has had more negative impact than anything in the past 50 years. So I'm OK with calling it apocalyptic by modern standards.

If you put together everything that happened in this country in 2020, you would have to go back more than 50 years to find anything this traumatic in this country. In fact, I don't think the U.S. has ever had a more "apocalyptic" year than 2020 since its inception. There were 5 or 6 major crises happening simultaneously. It definitely felt apocalyptic to me personally and, I think, to people who took the time to understand what was happening, who got Covid-19 and feared dying, who lost loved ones to the virus, who lived in major hot spots like New York and heard ambulances 24 hours a day while bodies piled up in storage trucks, who witnessed the race riots, who listened to false accusations of a "stolen election" and watched our democracy melting down, who lost a job or a home, whose home burned to the ground during the wildfires, and who realized that we could do nothing about the climate crisis during that period of national paralysis and shock. Many people felt that there was no protection for them anywhere, not from the government, not from the police, not from the military in a time of government-sanctioned violence, abuse of power, and misinformation (formerly called "lies"). It was a feeling of horror and helplessness that I will never forget to my dying day. Apocalyptic, certainly.

[fatlazyless]

Masks and indoor NH-lakes region pickleball?

Having been vaxxed three times, the last one in September, with the Pfizer vax at the Plymouth CVS pharmacy I have a sense on invincibility against the virus! Who me ...... no way ..... will never-ever happen what with three shots of Pfizer plus a flu shot as well?

So, the local indoor pickleball season has started up as of October 25 with pickleball venues typically happening at local town indoor gymnasiums and pickleballers, are aged about 55-82.

Should pickleballers be wearing masks while playing indoor pickleball? A good question? Nobody does wear a mask, so far, that I have seen, and the issue hasn't been discussed. If anyone wants to wear a mask at pickleball, it is their decision ......... so far?

Oh well, someone will probably need to actually catch the corona virus before pickleballers will start wearing masks ....... live pickleball or die! .....

Been vaxxed three times by the very efficient and professional pharmacy team at the CVS in Plymouth with no waiting around in a waiting line ....... so, What Me Worry ..... according to the old Mad Magazine! ..... I've been vaxxed ........ three times! .....

By the way, and not that it matters as far as catching the corona virus while playing pickleball here in New Hampshire...... I am like the greatest pickleball player that ever lived since pickleball was first invented ...... the Novak Djokovic, Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Andy Murray of pickleball ....... ha-ha-ha! .....

Maybe the answer for improving the indoor air quality is to simply open a door at the back of the pickleball gym and let some fresh air flow inside the large indoor gym playing area. Hey ...... take a deep breath ...... that feels like fresh air!

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

If you put together everything that happened in this country in 2020, you would have to go back more than 50 years to find anything this traumatic in this country. In fact, I don't think the U.S. has ever had a more "apocalyptic" year than 2020 since its inception. There were 5 or 6 major crises happening simultaneously. It definitely felt apocalyptic to me personally and, I think, to people who took the time to understand what was happening, who got Covid-19 and feared dying, who lost loved ones to the virus, who lived in major hot spots like New York and heard ambulances 24 hours a day while bodies piled up in storage trucks, who witnessed the race riots, who listened to false accusations of a "stolen election" and watched our democracy melting down, who lost a job or a home, whose home burned to the ground during the wildfires, and who realized that we could do nothing about the climate crisis during that period of national paralysis and shock. Many people felt that there was no protection for them anywhere, not from the government, not from the police, not from the military in a time of government-sanctioned violence, abuse of power, and misinformation (formerly called "lies"). It was a feeling of horror and helplessness that I will never forget to my dying day. Apocalyptic, certainly.

Wow this is overly dramatic and exaggerated .

Please don’t believe those stories about New York. I’m from there and have many friends that work in several hospitals. There was never bodies stacked up and overcrowding in limited circumstances. They have sent up the USS Hospitality and the Javits Center to handle overflow and not one patient was transferred to either facility.


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[TiltonBB]

Interesting.

Which U.S. state has the lowest COVID-19 rate right now?

It’s not California, home of America’s strictest mask and vaccine requirements. Nor is it Vermont, even though 71 percent of residents there have been fully inoculated — the most in the country.

No, the state with the fewest daily COVID cases per capita is Florida.

Florida’s turnaround vindicates the hands-off policies of Republican Gov. (and likely 2024 presidential hopeful) Ron DeSantis, who spent his summer prohibiting local schools, businesses and governments from requiring masks or vaccination while emphasizing costly post-infection treatments such as monoclonal antibodies instead.

“DeSantis critics and the mainstream media remain quiet as Florida's COVID numbers drop,” read a recent headline on Newsmax.