Extension Cord type for Generator use?

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Sorry... but you are wrong. You are describing wiring for installations. Such as 12/2 w/ground where the third conductor is bare for ground.

To connect a portable generator you must be using flexible cord which is different than wire. A 12/3 flexible cord has a white, black and green insulated conductors.

He’s right. If he only has 120V on generator it’s 12/2.
You can feed the house or sub panel with 120V.
It’s just not as flexible/ideal.

Even with a small generator sub panel you can still over load the generator.

[LikeLakes]

Good advice was given, for the OP's direct question use 12 gauge regardless of amp load due to his saying he may run 75 ft. Plus, since you said the pellet stove is plugged into a power strip, there's always the possibility that something else gets plugged in.

I TOTALLY agree with those suggesting correctly done generator wiring. It isn't expensive, gives a lot of comfort in the case of an extended outage, and is SAFE. You can do the sub panel as many suggest, I've chosen to do the full breaker panel capability where all circuits are available.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

Good advice was given, for the OP's direct question use 12 gauge regardless of amp load due to his saying he may run 75 ft. Plus, since you said the pellet stove is plugged into a power strip, there's always the possibility that something else gets plugged in.

I TOTALLY agree with those suggesting correctly done generator wiring. It isn't expensive, gives a lot of comfort in the case of an extended outage, and is SAFE. You can do the sub panel as many suggest, I've chosen to do the full breaker panel capability where all circuits are available.

Right. And you might want to rotate circuits. Say you have a freezer and a fridge. You could run each for say 4 hours at a time but not both at once.

One thing you do need to be careful of is going above 80% of designated amps. Which is possible even with a sub panel. For continuous load you probably want to keep it under 50% capacity of the generator. Leave the rest of the headroom for appliances that will surge.

Like someone said in the other thread. You do have to have some understanding of what’s going on. How some appliances surge. How much surge the generator can handle etc.

What ever you do, don’t run a microwave. Even small one would make my 4000 watt (non inverter type) generator go nuts. It’s a very odd load.

If the lights dim (or watch the volt meter going under say 105V) or generator is straining , back off on the load.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Right. And you might want to rotate circuits. Say you have a freezer and a fridge. You could run each for say 4 hours at a time but not both at once.

One thing you do need to be careful of is going above 80% of designated amps. Which is possible even with a sub panel. For continuous load you probably want to keep it under 50% capacity of the generator. Leave the rest of the headroom for appliances that will surge.

Like someone said in the other thread. You do have to have some understanding of what’s going on. How some appliances surge. How much surge the generator can handle etc.

What ever you do, don’t run a microwave. Even small one would make my 4000 watt (non inverter type) generator go nuts. It’s a very odd load.

If the lights dim (or watch the volt meter going under say 105V) or generator is straining , back off on the load.

I agree on needing some basic idea of what is going on, what kind of loads certain items are. I've also advised people to get a bigger generator than they first are thinking. The fuel burn of an 8,000 watt at 40-50% load is not much different from a 5,000 at 70-80% load. I realize the initial purchase cost is higher but gives you a ton of flexibility to have more capacity available. I think people tend to think about overnight outages, I'll unplug the fridge off and on like someone suggested. But in the rare occurrence of a multi day outage it's awful nice to have nearly everything available, be able to run a hot water heater or a burner on the stove, without worry.

I've always run a microwave during outages, with no problem.

[John Mercier]

The refrigerator uses a lot of amperage on start-up, but the generator should have the capacity... as long as the extension cord does.

Newer appliances are gaining efficiency partial by changing how they start to reduce that initial start-up load.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The refrigerator uses a lot of amperage on start-up, but the generator should have the capacity... as long as the extension cord does.

Newer appliances are gaining efficiency partial by changing how they start to reduce that initial start-up load.

Getting rid of start up load is not how they are more efficient. The practical removal of start up loads is a side effect of using variable speed DC motors continuously. DC motors can run efficiently at slow speeds and have variable control based on demand. Where AC motors were efficient at one speed (or a couple speeds) and usually at the max work they do.

Twice the work requires the square in power. Like for a pool my pump would run like 6 hours a day. But if I ran it half speed for twice as long (12 hrs) it would take half the amount of total power even though it’s running twice as long. Now cut the speed in half again and double time again I’m at 24hrs and use 1/4 the total power for the same amount of water filtered.

Refrigerators, AC/Heat Pumps, Water Pumps all are moving in this direction. They run continuously at the speed needed based on the demand. Instead of a burst at high speed for short bursts of time.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Getting rid of start up load is not how they are more efficient. The practical removal of start up loads is a side effect of using variable speed DC motors continuously. DC motors can run efficiently at slow speeds and have variable control based on demand. Where AC motors were efficient at one speed (or a couple speeds) and usually at the max work they do.

Twice the work requires the square in power. Like for a pool my pump would run like 6 hours a day. But if I ran it half speed for twice as long (12 hrs) it would take half the amount of total power even though it’s running twice as long. Now cut the speed in half again and double time again I’m at 24hrs and use 1/4 the total power for the same amount of water filtered.

Refrigerators, AC/Heat Pumps, Water Pumps all are moving in this direction. They run continuously at the speed needed based on the demand. Instead of a burst at high speed for short bursts of time.

I did not state that they got rid of the start-up load, I stated they changed how they were starting, and did not go into the details of the updated technology.

Same thing with the ''smart thermostat'' with the furnace in another discussion. Explaining the difference between the old/new doesn't really help the OP, as it isn't something they really control.

The only difference being that the newer is more susceptible to supply variation that can damage the unit.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I did not state that they got rid of the start-up load, I stated they changed how they were starting, and did not go into the details of the updated technology.

Same thing with the ''smart thermostat'' with the furnace in another discussion. Explaining the difference between the old/new doesn't really help the OP, as it isn't something they really control.

The only difference being that the newer is more susceptible to supply variation that can damage the unit.

I was referring to this statement.

"Newer appliances are gaining efficiency partial by changing how they start to reduce that initial start-up load."

If that was meant to simplify conversation that's fine by its misleading, confusing and basically wrong. That statement is implying by removing startup surge that that it is how they are more energy efficient. That's simply not the case. Startup surges were insignificant with regard to consumption because they were so short. But as I think you meant too convey by eliminating startup surges you reduce the cost in handling "peak loads". You can get by with smaller generator, smaller circuits because you can focus on the max continuous load only.

For example I changed my AC pool pump two decades ago from single speed AC to two speed AC pump. They both still had the same peak surge load. But I still got the same efficiency as a modern DC variable speed pump by running the pump at 1/8 the speed (low). That's how I gained huge efficiency with no change in surge.

On side note, whether the appliance is an old or new it should have a tag listing peak load. Likewise the generators all list peak and continuous load. And the major label on the generators that say like 8000 Watt generator is usually the peak capacity and not continuous load.

If you wanted a simple and correct version of what you meant

"A bonus in newer appliances gain in efficiency they have all but eliminated large start up surges".

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

I agree on needing some basic idea of what is going on, what kind of loads certain items are. I've also advised people to get a bigger generator than they first are thinking. The fuel burn of an 8,000 watt at 40-50% load is not much different from a 5,000 at 70-80% load. I realize the initial purchase cost is higher but gives you a ton of flexibility to have more capacity available. I think people tend to think about overnight outages, I'll unplug the fridge off and on like someone suggested. But in the rare occurrence of a multi day outage it's awful nice to have nearly everything available, be able to run a hot water heater or a burner on the stove, without worry.

I've always run a microwave during outages, with no problem.

All my large heating appliances are gas (hot water, cooking stove, furnace). So a 4000 watt generator for me is plenty. Fridge is probably the biggest thing. If I had electric hot water, yeah I’d want double that size. For an overnight power outage I typically don’t even bother with the generator. Note: I didn’t charge my car that day, which is a massive spike and dwarfs everything.

When I’m on generator I’m surprised how little I can comfortably get by with.

Here is a typical days usage. Both working from home. Never broke ~1600 watts. Do I really need a 8000 watt generator.

[LikeLakes]

That's a great setup, and you are right, in your case no need to upsize the generator.

At my home I have NG heat and hot water, but electric stove. Not using the stove is an obvious way to dramatically reduce capacity needs, but if you use both microwave and toaster oven instead it adds up. An electric stovetop burner is about the same wattage as a toaster oven. 6500 watts covers the house nicely, if we wanted to cook Thanksgiving dinner then you'd need 8000-9000 watts. I realize it's no hardship to go without using the oven for a few days!

Obviously I should have qualified my statement that it depends on house configuration, thanks for that clarification.