Ice Damming?

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The real damage gets done when you either slam down on the ice dams to break them up, or accidentally get the aluminum edge to cut into the asphalt shingles; at that point you are into the substrate.

Excellent advice.

Too many do DO damage to roof shingles with improper use of roof rake.

The roof raking should be done immediately after storm. And to make sure that the rollers are working properly.

[John Mercier]

In our current climate, it will not matter if the homeowner thinks that they will just simply replace the shingles... regardless of how much money they think they have... they may not be able to get the shingles in any reasonable amount of time.

[RUGMAN]

I always felt that having gutters on the house contributes to forming an Ice dam, I have just one 12ft length section on my house with a gutter that helps in the spring, summer and fall. Come November 1, I am able to remove and have yet to have ice dam problems.

[Descant]

Not necessarily dams, but water damage can occur when the snow is so deep and soaks up rain, that the weight bends the rafters separating joints. Time to shovel, not just rake the eaves. Hire somebody. If he falls, he collects worker's comp for a few months and is back to work. If you fall, you have to live with "What were you thinking?" for years to come.
Depending on conditions, I sometimes throw salt tabs on the roof. They're intended for this use and look like a hockey puck. Most of my roofing is pretty steep-cape style. Even so, last replacement we doubled up on the Bituthane/ice and water shield. I think most roofers nowadays do that automatically, but I've been here over 45 years, so some sectionms and some other buildings are part of a rotation.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

Not necessarily dams, but water damage can occur when the snow is so deep and soaks up rain, that the weight bends the rafters separating joints. Time to shovel, not just rake the eaves. Hire somebody. If he falls, he collects worker's comp for a few months and is back to work. If you fall, you have to live with "What were you thinking?" for years to come.
Depending on conditions, I sometimes throw salt tabs on the roof. They're intended for this use and look like a hockey puck. Most of my roofing is pretty steep-cape style. Even so, last replacement we doubled up on the Bituthane/ice and water shield. I think most roofers nowadays do that automatically, but I've been here over 45 years, so some sectionms and some other buildings are part of a rotation.

The hockey pucks can cause ''ponding'' so they have to be watched to make sure the water has an exist to the eaves and not just absorption into the snow below them. Steep roofs handle that better.
The problem with over using the ice & water at more than the heat transfer points is the possibility of limiting water vapor. The ice & water doesn't ''breathe'' well.

Before I went to a metal roof, I used an old roof rake with a cup secured to the end. That way I could sprinkle the calcium chloride flakes - same material as the hockey puck - into a vertical pathway that would allow the snow to melt and the water to have an outlet to the eave.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

The roof raking should be done immediately after storm.

You're right, of course, but I find this very difficult logistically. First priority is the driveway, then steps and sidewalks, then take a good long rest. It can be days before I have the ambition to tackle the roof. I'm remembering that huge storm in December 2020 . . .

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

You're right, of course, but I find this very difficult logistically. First priority is the driveway, then steps and sidewalks, then take a good long rest. It can be days before I have the ambition to tackle the roof. I'm remembering that huge storm in December 2020 . . .

Unless it is built up... you only need to go to the heat transition point where that vertical wall sits under the roof.
The idea is to let the dark surface of the shingle absorb heat and cause the snow to melt at the edge... the water will then run down to the eave and off.

If you decide to clean the whole roof as far as you can reach... usually that Avalanche roof rake will make it easier on the shoulders.

[Geneva Point]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

you only need to go to the heat transition point where that vertical wall sits under the roof.

JM

I've hear this before and it's great advice but I've never known where that Transition point is. Is there a way to tell or a rule of thumb (i.e. 1 foot up)?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Geneva Point

JM

I've hear this before and it's great advice but I've never known where that Transition point is. Is there a way to tell or a rule of thumb (i.e. 1 foot up)?

Various with the eave depth; but it is basically were an exterior wall meets the rafters.

I have very deep eaves, so my transition point is about three feet up the roof... but over my three season porch, the transition point is actually at a parallel to that roof and sometime would cause problems in the valleys.

The metal roof gets rid of much of that for me, but the valleys always seem to form ice regardless due to that transition point.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Unless it is built up... you only need to go to the heat transition point where that vertical wall sits under the roof.
The idea is to let the dark surface of the shingle absorb heat and cause the snow to melt at the edge... the water will then run down to the eave and off.

If you decide to clean the whole roof as far as you can reach... usually that Avalanche roof rake will make it easier on the shoulders.

In other words, only the edge of the roof is urgent. Probably so, but when there's two feet of snow up there that's another story . . . I saw some cheaper knockoffs of the Avalanche roof rake online. They certainly look much easier than conventional rakes. By the way, I use snow shoes to pack a path around the whole house in order to clean the roof and so folks can get to the electric meter and the oil pipe.

[John Mercier]

When you get lots of snow, or heavy snow due to saturation, it general has a greater risk than ice dams.
Even a roof that is not forming ice dams would need that removed.
That can be quite a bit of effort with the average roof rake...

[rozbeezer]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Unless it is built up... you only need to go to the heat transition point where that vertical wall sits under the roof.
The idea is to let the dark surface of the shingle absorb heat and cause the snow to melt at the edge... the water will then run down to the eave and off.

If you decide to clean the whole roof as far as you can reach... usually that Avalanche roof rake will make it easier on the shoulders.

Get a metal roof installed. No more problems. We had aluminum installed at the edge of our asphalt shingles which worked. Metal roof solves everything.

[John Mercier]

I have a metal roof and I sell them.
They do not solve everything.

Metal roofs require heat to melt the contact snow enough to lower to coefficient of friction. Once they do, they release all at once. That wet snow hits the ground/decks and forms cement.

The can also form ice at the peak as warm air moves up through the eave vents and begins to melt the snow covering the ridge vent, then refreezing overnight.

You get use to the details, but have to adapt for other aspects.

[sky's]

thats absolutetly correct they dont solve everything in fact i think they can cause more problems than there worth and like most things in life after the circle comes around folks will realize the good old asphalt shingle will be here. like John said when the snow hits the ground its turns into a hard cement like material that youre not going to simply shovel or snow blow away. they have there places like commercial buildings. if you have nice landscaping or nice deck railings kiss that all good bye when your snow and ice slide off your metal roof. stick with architecuals shingles and good ventilation.

[John Mercier]

I have metal.
But I have found ways to deal with the facts of that roof-type.

Each material has positive and negatives... they just need to be understood.