Gilford to have meeting on Short Term Rentals Monday

[Cal-to-NH]

I was only indicating that the blanket statement that primary-home residents don't offer their property for STR is just not so. It is the base assumption offered by others that everything else flows from. There are as may different owner situations as there are places to rent. Like Descant, I know someone who rents out their primary residence - of a house in a town they are RESIDENTS of.

Just pointing out that all of this isn't just a money-maker for out-of-towners. In some cases it helps people meet their living needs. And as long as the housing prices keep rising, taxes keep going-up and "ahem" some of us are getting older, the STR thing becomes an option for some to retain their homes on the most beautiful place in the world.

Those of us that live here full-time are lucky. To give up the place you love because your fixed income can no longer support your home is hard. It is a privilege to live where we live. If I ever get to that place where i am living on the edge of affordability, I would look at the option myself. I don't want to leave here...

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Cal-to-NH

I was only indicating that the blanket statement that primary-home residents don't offer their property for STR is just not so. It is the base assumption offered by others that everything else flows from. There are as may different owner situations as there are places to rent. Like Descant, I know someone who rents out their primary residence - of a house in a town they are RESIDENTS of.

Just pointing out that all of this isn't just a money-maker for out-of-towners. In some cases it helps people meet their living needs. And as long as the housing prices keep rising, taxes keep going-up and "ahem" some of us are getting older, the STR thing becomes an option for some to retain their homes on the most beautiful place in the world.

Those of us that live here full-time are lucky. To give up the place you love because your fixed income can no longer support your home is hard. It is a privilege to live where we live. If I ever get to that place where i am living on the edge of affordability, I would look at the option myself. I don't want to leave here...

We lived in upstate NY near Saratoga and there were many people in the town that would rent their home during the 8 week racing session in Jul and Aug, often to the same people year in and year out. They made enough in rental fees to pay their annual property taxes and the cost of their rental wherever it was.
I do agree most homeowners do not rent their primary residence for short term rentals, never say never.

Dave

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Cal-to-NH

I was only indicating that the blanket statement that primary-home residents don't offer their property for STR is just not so. It is the base assumption offered by others that everything else flows from. There are as may different owner situations as there are places to rent. Like Descant, I know someone who rents out their primary residence - of a house in a town they are RESIDENTS of.

Just pointing out that all of this isn't just a money-maker for out-of-towners. In some cases it helps people meet their living needs. And as long as the housing prices keep rising, taxes keep going-up and "ahem" some of us are getting older, the STR thing becomes an option for some to retain their homes on the most beautiful place in the world.

Those of us that live here full-time are lucky. To give up the place you love because your fixed income can no longer support your home is hard. It is a privilege to live where we live. If I ever get to that place where i am living on the edge of affordability, I would look at the option myself. I don't want to leave here...

Primary home people do rent their homes for STR... some for rooms... like an actual B&B. But more as a LTR.
Some homeowners would rent their home out to escape Bike Week, but those were almost always in the areas that a zoned commercial/resort, or similar, that I previously spoke of.
These are not in any danger of local regulation. In fact, these are why local regulations are so hard to tailor. The State of NH wouldn't need any new legislation to protect those.

[Cal-to-NH]

I respect your opinion, but even when offered as a fact (without support), it is an opinion. You may not think so, but there are homeowners with primary residences that rent their homes as a room, some rent LTR, and some as STRs. This is a fact even if it doesn't fit your narrative.

BTW the guy 5 houses away from me (his primary residence, but he has a second home) Rents STR for only 2 weeks each Summer. It's a nice set-up with a dock and 5 BRs. People bring their own watercraft, and they use the on-property paddleboards and kayaks (which scares me from a liability insurance issue, but that's off-topic). He gets an incredible $12,800 a week. It more than pays his taxes and insurance, and he gets to enjoy his home the rest of the year. Yes, people like this exist. Again, there are as many STR situations as there are rentals to choose on AirBNB and VRBO. There are no absolute descriptions.

[John Mercier]

I stated that some primary homeowners do rent rooms as STR, but more as LTR.
That is simply a fact of the market.

Homeowners can take on roommates just as easily as someone renting a home without a no sublet agreement can take on a roommate.

My narrative is that all these things have been happening in this are for at least the last five and a half decades that I've been alive; before there was ever any zoning, permitting, or even paying Meals & Room tax.

Something changed... and the narrative is that more of it is happening than before and something that was less perceived has now become more perceived. The government response has been steady steps toward waylaying the local outcry... and that is also fact that can be determined by the slow steady progression of the rules/regulation/taxation.

And the political fallout from that slow progression...

[tis]

In regard to the Conway lawsuit, the judge had ruled in favor of the rental owners.
STRs are not a violation of the Conway zoning.

[John Mercier]

Zoning is fluid. The wording that exists today can be amended.

Each municipality is going to have to decide the fate of its commercial motel/hotel/B&B operations.

Laconia, for the most part, has already taken the hit... most of them in the Weirs section are gone. I think they only have the Naswa and Margate?

Meredith and Gilford are the ones that have to make the big decision.
It is why I think that Rusty was lucky to sell Church Landing, and shouldn't invest in the Gunstock project. Church Landing is taxes to Meredith, and the Gunstock project is taxes to Gilford; but I don't see the ROI for the investors that is worth the risk.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Laconia, for the most part, has already taken the hit... most of them in the Weirs section are gone. I think they only have the Naswa and Margate?.

And:

The Lazy E

Channel Cottages

The Half Moon

Lake Winnipesaukee Motel

Sun Valley Cottages

The Summit

Weirs Beach Motel and Cottages

[John Mercier]

Thanks for the correction... it was sort of why I had the question mark.

I know we have some big jobs for the Weirs section, and I think that they may have the option of STR for them. They seem very modern functional; which is different than the designs that I get requested to do for most primary home owners.

[birchhaven]

The motels in the weirs went condo because of the amount of money the former motel owner can make selling them as Condos, it had nothing to do with people buying them to rent them as airbnb. Surely that's not what you are saying.

[TiltonBB]

The State Senate had a hearing on January 25th on the bill regarding short term rentals submitted by Senator Harold French. At the hearing, Senator French offered amendments to the bill.

Senator French has done some good things and is very responsive to input from Citizens. He seems to be a real "common sense" guy.

I asked him to submit legislation a couple of years ago and he was receptive and interested. He made some suggestions about the language, attended the hearings and testified for the bill, and the bill was passed.

Back to the subject at hand: The short term rental bill amendment would allow communities to adopt ordinances to have an inspection of the premises to ensure it meets minimum housing standards.

From The Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...98503b1ba.html

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by birchhaven

The motels in the weirs went condo because of the amount of money the former motel owner can make selling them as Condos, it had nothing to do with people buying them to rent them as airbnb. Surely that's not what you are saying.

People don't move from an STR like a motel, to go back to an STR in most cases.
Motels close for various reasons... retirement of the owners and no one willing to take over the business, etc. But competition plays a role, at a certain point an STR regardless of type may not be able to compete with another STR regardless of type... the market moves. Changing a property to another format is always an option; but that would be because the motel wasn't as profitable against the competition which held the profits down.

If someone would have told me three years ago that black/black windows would be the hot item in my line of work - I would laughed so hard I would need a doctor. Currently, it is rare that the customer is not looking for black/black windows. The companies that do black/black well... with the right price point... they are doing very well. Three years from now what will be the demand... I have no idea... but the same can be stated for STR, condos, or really any market segment.

As the market moves, the companies that do it best survive and prosper, those that don't... tend to die a death one way or the other.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by birchhaven

The motels in the weirs went condo because of the amount of money the former motel owner can make selling them as Condos, it had nothing to do with people buying them to rent them as airbnb. Surely that's not what you are saying.

Disagree. I bought a motel to condo conversion in 1980 specifically for STR. Many of the other buyers at the time did the same. Yes, the owners wanted to retire and move, and, as with many other Weirs motels, to continue running it as a "modern" motel would have cost a lot more than they, or a business buyer, could make back in a few years. Some of my first tenants were people who had rented from the motel in the past. They looked around and decided that motels weren't going to be around for long and bought conversions as well. Used it for a few weeks and rent the rest of the time. The catch was, Gunstock had no snowmaking then and also that year, no natural snow. Nobody wanted to rent winter short term. In a couple of years, the price doubled, so I sold it. Prices have continued to climb and I believe many of those units are STR because people have mortgages and much higher taxes.

[John Mercier]

Cherry Valley?
I know Cedar Lodge went condo so the owners could recapture capital, and it is still STR... but I didn't know there were others. I thought most went timeshare.

[birchhaven]

Originally Posted by Descant

Disagree. I bought a motel to condo conversion in 1980 specifically for STR. Many of the other buyers at the time did the same. Yes, the owners wanted to retire and move, and, as with many other Weirs motels, to continue running it as a "modern" motel would have cost a lot more than they, or a business buyer, could make back in a few years. Some of my first tenants were people who had rented from the motel in the past. They looked around and decided that motels weren't going to be around for long and bought conversions as well. Used it for a few weeks and rent the rest of the time. The catch was, Gunstock had no snowmaking then and also that year, no natural snow. Nobody wanted to rent winter short term. In a couple of years, the price doubled, so I sold it. Prices have continued to climb and I believe many of those units are STR because people have mortgages and much higher taxes.

I don't doubt your situation, however, it has been talked about on here at length about how the motels of the weirs going condo negatively impacted area businesses because of the lower utilization rates of condo owners vs motel renters. Now that Short term rentals are being discussed in a negative way, you are suggesting and twisting it in way that people sold their motels as condos so people could rerent them on VRBO. And that somehow the VRBO rental in a former motel is somehow worse since gunstock now makes snow. That is downright comical and just shows the internet never fails that someone can twist anything to serve their opinion.

[codeman671]

A judge just denied the attempt in North Conway to ban short-term rentals that are not owner-occupied. Just came across WMUR.

[tis]

Originally Posted by codeman671

A judge just denied the attempt in North Conway to ban short-term rentals that are not owner-occupied. Just came across WMUR.

Hi Codeman. I posted that already, (post 69). WMUR must be a little behind.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by birchhaven

I don't doubt your situation, however, it has been talked about on here at length about how the motels of the weirs going condo negatively impacted area businesses because of the lower utilization rates of condo owners vs motel renters. Now that Short term rentals are being discussed in a negative way, you are suggesting and twisting it in way that people sold their motels as condos so people could rerent them on VRBO. And that somehow the VRBO rental in a former motel is somehow worse since gunstock now makes snow. That is downright comical and just shows the internet never fails that someone can twist anything to serve their opinion.

I would state that some surmised that the motels going condo hurt local business more from the fact that the condos generally provide a means to prepare a meal without dining out. It really does not seem to be the situation. Some restaurants have struggled and closed, while others seem to thrive through the changes.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I would state that some surmised that the motels going condo hurt local business more from the fact that the condos generally provide a means to prepare a meal without dining out. It really does not seem to be the situation. Some restaurants have struggled and closed, while others seem to thrive through the changes.

Interesting point. Maybe the kitchens in the condos are balanced out by the people in the condos having more disposable income?

[Descant]

Yes, many of the small family businesses from post war are gone because those folks wanted to retire just like motel owners. But look what the condos are supporting at McIntire Circle: A super Wal Mart and two other huge supermarkets, Lowe's, and countless other businesses. I don't believe a population of less than 8,000 supports all that business. Yes, some come from Laconia where the STR issue is similar.

[John Mercier]

People that rent short term rather than long term do not eat more food.
That area had a Gerrity Lumber, Star Market and K Mart for decades.

I would doubt the people in the condos have more disposable income than the ones in the motels; but its always plausible. I think on a ''per head'' basis, the condo rental may be cheaper than the motel... or provide more amenities like the kitchen that can offset a higher cost. The market has so many variables, it is hard to determine.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

People that rent short term rather than long term do not eat more food.
That area had a Gerrity Lumber, Star Market and K Mart for decades.

I would doubt the people in the condos have more disposable income than the ones in the motels; but its always plausible. I think on a ''per head'' basis, the condo rental may be cheaper than the motel... or provide more amenities like the kitchen that can offset a higher cost. The market has so many variables, it is hard to determine.

I remember Grossman's, not Gerrity. Did one replace the other? My speculation is that condo owners and those who rent them, are more apt to rent/stay for a week whereas motels of the day were more apt to have folks stay for a weekend. When I worked at a local restaurant as a teenager, the weekend traffic was significantly greater than mid-week.

[tis]

Gerrity was where Middleton is now in Meredith. Grossman's was near where Lowe's is now.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

I remember Grossman's, not Gerrity. Did one replace the other? My speculation is that condo owners and those who rent them, are more apt to rent/stay for a week whereas motels of the day were more apt to have folks stay for a weekend. When I worked at a local restaurant as a teenager, the weekend traffic was significantly greater than mid-week.

I would surmise the same that both are STR, but a condo rental is... or at least was... longer - more like the two week time share options that existed.
But if the motel room turns over and has the same occupancy... it really should be the motel patrons that would have a greater amount of money to unload in a shorter period. If I am only a day or two in an area... the process of grocery shopping and preparing a meal is rather bothersome than just dining out for all three meals.