Wakesurfing legislation call to action

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Tourism is about 8% of NH's GSP according to the Division of Travel and Tourism. They estimate that between 75% and 85% of that on any given year is residents recreating. The Seacoast is the actual winner for summer revenue on that one.

Boating is cost and access. Pretty much like any other recreational format.
It is doubtful that diminishing a boats speed for an extra 100 feet, or even 500 feet, would change the demand pattern even enough to discover any data on it.

Now if we stated that no vessel shall sit at rest while manned unless docked... that might create an issue.

Curious, you believe the sea coast of NH brings in more revenue then the lakes region. How does one determine this number or is it just your opinion? Must say, I don’t see many million dollar condos being built at the seacoast we are having built here. Maybe in the past, but today, the lakes region is one of the hottest if not the hottest real estate markets in NE


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[codeman671]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Curious, you believe the sea coast of NH brings in more revenue then the lakes region. How does one determine this number or is it just your opinion? Must say, I don’t see many million dollar condos being built at the seacoast we are having built here. Maybe in the past, but today, the lakes region is one of the hottest if not the hottest real estate markets in NE


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There are plenty. Have you been to downtown Portsmouth lately? Some are in the $2-4mil range! I live in Dover (at least for a few more months until we move permanently to Gilford) and real estate all over the seacoast is booming. Tons of people relocating to the seacoast, and summer is big down here. Personally I spend my summers in the lakes region.

[LakeDad]

Originally Posted by codeman671

There are plenty. Have you been to downtown Portsmouth lately? Some are in the $2-4mil range! I live in Dover (at least for a few more months until we move permanently to Gilford) and real estate all over the seacoast is booming. Tons of people relocating to the seacoast, and summer is big down here. Personally I spend my summers in the lakes region.

“Plenty”, “some” and “tons” are not really measurements. I don’t know which area brings in more revenue, but there are ways to look this up.

My wife prefers the seacoast and I prefer the lake.
I won this time

Property tax tends to be one of my primary motivators when shopping homes: One could argue that property tax is one of the most immoral taxes: Who wants to pay a lifelong mortgage after you’ve already paid your property off? This got to be such a problem in CA, they capped it based on an annual % of the purchase price, regardless of appreciation.

Alton, Gilford, Wolfeboro and Moultonboro bring great value. Some of the sea coast has similar value, so both will remain popular for years to come.

When I look at Gilmanton, Bow and other places, I’d have a hard time justifying a purchase. A house the price of mine in Bow would have double the property tax.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by LakeDad

“Plenty”, “some” and “tons” are not really measurements. I don’t know which area brings in more revenue, but there are ways to look this up.

Since you don't like my generic terms, here is the NH quarterly activity posted by county for residential and condo sales.

https://www.nhar.org/assets/docs/NHAR_QDS_2021-Q4.pdf

I was speaking specifically to real estate, not which area brings in more revenue. I do think that a lot more people visit the seacoast than the lakes region, but that is my opinion. Just the sheer traffic alone down here is a nightmare. When people complain about lakes region traffic I have to chuckle.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by LakeDad

“Plenty”, “some” and “tons” are not really measurements. I don’t know which area brings in more revenue, but there are ways to look this up.

My wife prefers the seacoast and I prefer the lake.
I won this time

Property tax tends to be one of my primary motivators when shopping homes: One could argue that property tax is one of the most immoral taxes: Who wants to pay a lifelong mortgage after you’ve already paid your property off? This got to be such a problem in CA, they capped it based on an annual % of the purchase price, regardless of appreciation.

Alton, Gilford, Wolfeboro and Moultonboro bring great value. Some of the sea coast has similar value, so both will remain popular for years to come.

When I look at Gilmanton, Bow and other places, I’d have a hard time justifying a purchase. A house the price of mine in Bow would have double the property tax.

NH Travel and Tourism has data on where the Meals & Rental taxes are coming from by specific address, but generally correlates by zip code.

We use property taxes... which we have since the founding of the State (and used to pay all State level revenue as property taxes including on livestock and equipment) because property is much more stable, and moreover, the property tax generally goes towards items that improve the value of the property.

[LakeDad]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

NH Travel and Tourism has data on where the Meals & Rental taxes are coming from by specific address, but generally correlates by zip code.

We use property taxes... which we have since the founding of the State (and used to pay all State level revenue as property taxes including on livestock and equipment) because property is much more stable, and moreover, the property tax generally goes towards items that improve the value of the property.

Using them doesn’t make them any less immoral of a tax. One should be able to buy a home, pay it off and sit. If tax revenue is absolutely required, gather it at spending points. This prevents the retired (fixed, often low, income) from being disproportionately injured financially year after year.

People who have had a paid off house for 20 years, only to be displaced by unaffordable taxes is ****ing immoral.

[dippasan]

No need for a $150,000 wake boat to tow you if you have one of these.
Minimal wake, minimal shoreline impact, battery powered

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_PhLgPtfcg

[Woodsy]

Its not just elderly... pretty much any family with lakefront property will be priced/taxed out eventually! They are not making anymore lakefront, and its a high demand commodity. We see this now in almost all aspects of lake life... I know of 1 marina getting close to $7700 for valet & winter storage!

Woodsy

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by LakeDad

Using them doesn’t make them any less immoral of a tax. One should be able to buy a home, pay it off and sit. If tax revenue is absolutely required, gather it at spending points. This prevents the retired (fixed, often low, income) from being disproportionately injured financially year after year.

People who have had a paid off house for 20 years, only to be displaced by unaffordable taxes is ****ing immoral.

Gathering revenue at spending points is an excellent idea...as long as you don't need roads plowed/repaired, or need to call the police, or the fire department, or believe in public education...

I agree that nobody should be taxed out of their (primary) residence. Many towns have tax relief programs that enable cash-strapped older people to put off paying property taxes until their home is sold. Since everybody's seen huge run ups in real estate value over the 20 years you cite, that should work for all towns

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by LakeDad

Using them doesn’t make them any less immoral of a tax. One should be able to buy a home, pay it off and sit. If tax revenue is absolutely required, gather it at spending points. This prevents the retired (fixed, often low, income) from being disproportionately injured financially year after year.

People who have had a paid off house for 20 years, only to be displaced by unaffordable taxes is ****ing immoral.

What spending points?
And they are protected under NH RSA 72:38-a

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Curious, you believe the sea coast of NH brings in more revenue then the lakes region. How does one determine this number or is it just your opinion? Must say, I don’t see many million dollar condos being built at the seacoast we are having built here. Maybe in the past, but today, the lakes region is one of the hottest if not the hottest real estate markets in NE


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According to Realtor.com Manchester is the #1 RE market in the state, Concord comes in as #2.

Based on numbers from September 2021. This is based on both volume of sales along with average days on the market.

While areas like the seacoast and lakes region may have a high concentration of high dollar properties, that does not really create a fair measuring stick. What it does illustrate is real estate in these areas is in high demand and with limited options drives the higher-than-average prices. Then again this is happening everywhere.

It's all relative, every market is different.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Curious, you believe the sea coast of NH brings in more revenue then the lakes region. How does one determine this number or is it just your opinion? Must say, I don’t see many million dollar condos being built at the seacoast we are having built here. Maybe in the past, but today, the lakes region is one of the hottest if not the hottest real estate markets in NE


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I have spent a lot of time in the lakes region and now live at Hampton Beach. I don't think million dollar+ condos bring in much tourism revenue anywhere since most are probably either occupied by owners (who are likely not eating out every day or hitting tourist traps, due to BTDT syndrome) or they are empty. I suspect that when you can afford a million dollar+ condo as a second home, there's not a lot of incentive to rent it out.

I can say with certainty that sub-$500k condo short-term rentals are absolutely booming here at Hampton Beach. We rent our one-bedroom beach condo out May to Oct on airbnb and it sells out easily. Many of our neighbors do the same. We are in process of buying a second one bedroom condo right now and plan to keep buying more when good deals land in our lap (we refuse to get into bidding wars).

I think it's safe to assume the tourism revenue from the people that are renting these small (600-850 square foot) beach condos is pretty huge because in addition to the beach, our customers tell us the big draw here is all the cool places to spend money at night. Tourists love all the live music and expensive food/drink venues that are clustered here.

The lakes region, IMO, is going in the opposite direction as the seacoast, tourism-wise. It's becoming more and more exclusive and other than Weirs Beach (which is tiny compared to Hampton Beach), there really aren't any high-density low-cost vacation destinations in the lakes region anymore.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I have spent a lot of time in the lakes region and now live at Hampton Beach. I don't think million dollar+ condos bring in much tourism revenue anywhere since most are probably either occupied by owners (who are likely not eating out every day or hitting tourist traps, due to BTDT syndrome) or they are empty. I suspect that when you can afford a million dollar+ condo as a second home, there's not a lot of incentive to rent it out.

I can say with certainty that sub-$500k condo short-term rentals are absolutely booming here at Hampton Beach. We rent our one-bedroom beach condo out May to Oct on airbnb and it sells out easily. Many of our neighbors do the same. We are in process of buying a second one bedroom condo right now and plan to keep buying more when good deals land in our lap (we refuse to get into bidding wars).

I think it's safe to assume the tourism revenue from the people that are renting these small (600-850 square foot) beach condos is pretty huge because in addition to the beach, our customers tell us the big draw here is all the cool places to spend money at night. Tourists love all the live music and expensive food/drink venues that are clustered here.

The lakes region, IMO, is going in the opposite direction as the seacoast, tourism-wise. It's becoming more and more exclusive and other than Weirs Beach (which is tiny compared to Hampton Beach), there really aren't any high-density low-cost vacation destinations in the lakes region anymore.

I think you make an excellent point. There used to be cabin colonies and motels and now there are hardly any. We are a second home area now. And although more people rent their private houses, it still does not even compare to what used to be available.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Curious, you believe the sea coast of NH brings in more revenue then the lakes region. How does one determine this number or is it just your opinion? Must say, I don’t see many million dollar condos being built at the seacoast we are having built here. Maybe in the past, but today, the lakes region is one of the hottest if not the hottest real estate markets in NE


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NH Division of Travel and Tourism.

Housing is not tourism.