Land Question

[secondcurve]

Hello:

I’ve posted before about a piece of land I’m trying to put a house up on. I have another question I’d appreciate some help on. My lot is sloping and there are a couple of options pertaining to where I should build on the lot. One option is to build into the hillside close to the street and another is to move higher onto the lot where it flattens out. There are pluses and minuses with both approach’s. My question is who is typically best qualified to help evaluate these options?

I’m leaning toward an architect as it seems I need plans and permits before I can get a builder interested in the project. Is evaluating a lot too much to ask of an architect? The higher I go up the hillside the more excavation I incur but the better the land becomes. Who is best able to provide vision and evaluate options?

Another question is how do architects get paid? A percentage of the total project or a flat rate? What type of cost range would a capable architect charge for say a $3,000 square foot house?

Thanks for any thoughts!

[winterh]

An architect could definitely help answer that question as could most good builders. While it can be quite expensive to use an architect for the complete design start to finish I am sure you can find one that works by the hour and could help with just determining how to best use the lot.

[tis]

There are builders that will design and build for you as I am sure you are aware.

[mswlogo]

A good Architect may or may not help.
A good builder may or may not help.
Getting a full survey would probably help.
Get a septic design done. That may guide where the house goes.
Also will it need a Well?

You are in the granite state. Ledge can make a HUGE difference in cost.
You can get test pits done for septic and house to see what’s down there. That’s what I did. Not a perfect science though.

I think houses on slop lots actually work out nice if you want a drive under garage. Flat lots not so much.

What looks good on a slope vs flat varies. So pick the house you want.

I would prefer further back myself.

So many other variables and the order you do things matters. But the more info you have the better.

Like someone said. You may have “wetland” poor drain soil in places you’d never suspect. And you can’t build near them. State has rules and towns have stiffer rules. Like the state is 75ft away but my town requires septic be 125ft radius away. That’s a LOT of area.

[Winilyme]

Decide where you’d LIKE the house to be and then assess feasibility with whatever expertise you choose to secure. No matter what, if you build somewhere that is your second or third choice, you may always regret it. I do realize there are likely financial and other considerations but try hard to make your preferred location work. It’ll make you most happy and will likely enhance the long-term value of your investment.

[map]

I personally always liked my house up on a hill so the water drains down away from the house. Our last two homes were like that.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by tis

There are builders that will design and build for you as I am sure you are aware.

Yes. It’s just trying to get a builder’s attention in this market is difficult.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by map

I personally always liked my house up on a hill so the water drains down away from the house. Our last two homes were like that.

I agree there are some advantages. We have a existing cottage across the street on the water and getting up and down between the two houses will be a bit of an issue and unfortunately I’m not getting any younger ☹️.

[tis]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Yes. It’s just trying to get a builder’s attention in this market is difficult.

I certainly won't argue with that. They are all so busy. But as long as you aren't in a great hurry to build, maybe one of them would have one of their people start working with you for ideas? Worth a few calls? Of course having the extra people on staff might cost you more for the job, but if you are planning on hiring an architect anyway??? Just a thought.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

A good Architect may or may not help.
A good builder may or may not help.
Getting a full survey would probably help.
Get a septic design done. That may guide where the house goes.
Also will it need a Well?

You are in the granite state. Ledge can make a HUGE difference in cost.
You can get test pits done for septic and house to see what’s down there. That’s what I did. Not a perfect science though.

I think houses on slop lots actually work out nice if you want a drive under garage. Flat lots not so much.

What looks good on a slope vs flat varies. So pick the house you want.

I would prefer further back myself.

So many other variables and the order you do things matters. But the more info you have the better.

Like someone said. You may have “wetland” poor drain soil in places you’d never suspect. And you can’t build near them. State has rules and towns have stiffer rules. Like the state is 75ft away but my town requires septic be 125ft radius away. That’s a LOT of area.

I have engaged the surveyor and expect to have the survey by May. I had thought about trying to go to an architect or builder next but I think your advice about the septic design/shore land protection permit consultant makes a lot of sense. I’ve worked with this person in the past and he is quite knowledgeable with 30 years of experience. He probably will have a lot of useful thoughts i. Wetlands, builders, etc. I think that is my plan. I’ll gather more info from him before making the call on the architect.

I don’t have to deal with a the well issue as I can tie into community water.

As always, thanks for your input.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Yes. It’s just trying to get a builder’s attention in this market is difficult.

The complexity and size of the projects along with the extended lead times is having a dramatic effect on the builders.

So what they could determine would be roughly a year or two worth of work is now indeterminate. If you pick certain windows with certain criteria, I may not get the windows for over a year after ordering them. The order can't be changed without a charge after placing it, so changes on the fly for other items in short supply creates added tension.

So once they have a couple jobs ahead... they stop.

Others have opted to move to smaller renovation jobs that can have a little less of a logistical nightmare.

[Asloren1]

A few additional thoughts as we’ve recently gone through the full state and town permitting process:
- Full survey and topographical site plan is step 1 so you know what you actually have and where you can actually build per property boundaries, wetlands, slopes, possible septic locations, well, etc
- NHDES and town Shoreland permit process requires a full site plan AND proposed building footprint with all pervious/impervious areas, so you will need some aspect of that from the Architect (you don’t need full building permit plan, but do need the foundation and surrounding elements like patios, driveway, etc)
- Your surveyor should be able to help manage that permit process for you, but you’ll need an architect or designer for the house footprint parts

Hope that helps…

[John Mercier]

If they have existing cottages across the street on the water... probably outside the shoreland permitting requirement.

[secondcurve]

Typically your observation would be correct. However, our existing cottage sits right on the street and also right on the water. We enter on the top floor and go down a series of stairs to the water. The lot is very shallow so the second lot is only about 175 feet from the water. Bottom line we need to deal with the Shoreline Protection even if the expansion is higher up on the hill and out of the 250 foot buffer because the new curb cut/driveway is within the 250 foot buffer.

Thanks

[John Mercier]

Well, then you have quite a bit of paperwork at hand.

After that, a builder or a design program may be able to help the process along.

If you get it close, the lumber yards have internal structural engineers that can further the details along.

[Lakegeezer]

Contact your town's conservation commission. They may be willing to give high-level advice about what can be done, do it more quickly than builders and likely without charge. DES is also a good route once you have specific ideas about what you want to do, as they are willing to talk things over with you before you go for permits.

[tis]

Depending on the town, your code officer can be very helpful also.

[Lake Fan]

Very good answer there. The surveyor/civil engineer should also be able to advise on lot grading, drainage, and the location of the house and improvements after all the encumbrances are accounted for.

Just out of curiosity, how long did the permitting process take? I know someone just getting started building on an island and was wondering what the timeframe was like? Thanks in advance for any info.

Originally Posted by Asloren1

A few additional thoughts as we’ve recently gone through the full state and town permitting process:
- Full survey and topographical site plan is step 1 so you know what you actually have and where you can actually build per property boundaries, wetlands, slopes, possible septic locations, well, etc
- NHDES and town Shoreland permit process requires a full site plan AND proposed building footprint with all pervious/impervious areas, so you will need some aspect of that from the Architect (you don’t need full building permit plan, but do need the foundation and surrounding elements like patios, driveway, etc)
- Your surveyor should be able to help manage that permit process for you, but you’ll need an architect or designer for the house footprint parts

Hope that helps…

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Lake Fan

Very good answer there. The surveyor/civil engineer should also be able to advise on lot grading, drainage, and the location of the house and improvements after all the encumbrances are accounted for.

Just out of curiosity, how long did the permitting process take? I know someone just getting started building on an island and was wondering what the timeframe was like? Thanks in advance for any info.

DES is pretty good (30 days) once an application is complete. If you DIY, it make take a bit of back and forth to be complete. A hired pro should not have much in delays. The delay comes when DES sends the application to the local CC. They may take 30-60 days to get you on the agenda, and they meet mostly once a month. If it's a complicated plan and they want to do a site visit, that can add time. A CE or surveyor can tell you what his experience is in most towns. Ask before you hire.

[Asloren1]

Lake Fan: Town and DES have 30 days to respond…if they have any questions, you will have 30 days to rep,y to that….then they have another 30 days to reply to you again….so, plan ahead and expect it to take several months.

For our recent project, we had submitted plans in November and I believe I had DES approval in Jan.

Also…to the original poster…if your structure is out of the 250 and it’s just driveway, you may be able to avoid shoreland permitting, but check with the town and survey engineer on that .

[secondcurve]

Hi:

That is a good piece of information. Depending upon where I site the house on the lot it could partially be in the 250 foot zone or totally out of the zone.

Thank you

[codeman671]

We used David Dolan for our survey, variance with Meredith for our deck and shoreland permitting. He did a great job getting everything we needed.

If you have an idea of what you want for a house, I would pick out a design so that they can work it into the plan to ensure you have the space and grades that work.