Moultonborough Budget and Warrants town Meeting next week Tuesday and Saturday

longislander · 05-06-2022, 11:06 AM

Quote:

i may be wrong but i think in prior years it was a bond issue which required 2/3 yeas. With this drip approach it is a simple majority

You are correct that this drip approach only requires a majority vote of one

Article 7 funds to rehab the present hall will come from taxation.
Article 8 funds will come from Unassigned Funds.

Neither article requires a 3/5ths majority (formerly 2/3rds) vote, as neither requires a bond or note.

RSA 33:8 was revised in 2020 (2/3rds to 3/5ths)

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...II/33/33-8.htm

phoenix · 05-15-2022, 09:22 AM

so what was the damage to taxpayers at yesterdays town meeting

winni83 · 05-15-2022, 09:30 AM

Both Articles 7 and 8 failed to pass 😎👍

longislander · 05-15-2022, 09:38 AM

Warrant
https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/sit...dra_2022_0.pdf

Articles of general interest: 7,8,14,23 all failed.
Article 24 amended from $28,000 to $40,000 ... passed.

phoenix · 05-15-2022, 11:14 AM

maybe the rec center crowd will finally quit or come up with an affordable request

John Mercier · 05-15-2022, 11:50 AM

It wouldn't make a difference.
It is a bad concept.

winni83 · 05-15-2022, 11:51 AM

Unfortunately the Taj Mahal community Center group will not take no for an answer. Some recent comments after the defeat at Town Meeting from the group’s social media:

‘Do not give up! You were closer than ever… never give up! 👏🏻💕😻”

“don’t worry. We will continue our work on behalf of the entire Community.”

They claim that they do not have any cost numbers, which strains credulity. A 34,000 square foot facility, including an “11,000 square foot facility featuring a 25-meter 5-lane pool for swimming lessons, water aerobics, and water polo.” And “a 40-foot therapy pool with a ramped entrance for no-impact physical therapy.”

So 34,000 square feet at $400 psf is $13,600,000.00 Do the math for higher psf costs. And yearly staffing, operating and maintenance costs will surely be high.

Yeah a really great way to try and spend our tax dollars. They say they are fundraising but at Town Meeting they stated that $17,000 had been raised.

John Mercier · 05-15-2022, 11:58 AM

It isn't a matter of giving up.
Small groups try things forever.

But in the end the projects that get built are usually needed and largely supported.

The day may come when this happens for them... but the concept would be so different as to not make sense to the people that started it.

Even with Laconia's full time residential size and density... their community center goes largely unused.

phoenix · 05-15-2022, 12:18 PM

i guess you're right . the one thing they know if if it requires bonding they will lose so maybe continue the drip approach. Glad it got voted down

fatlazyless · 05-15-2022, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Even with Laconia's full time residential size and density... their community center goes largely unused.

Next to Rite Aid and close to Laconia High School ......

Three cheers for the Laconia Community Center ..... https://www.laconianh.gov/1030/Community-Center ..... this old former NH Guard Armory building is a 'work of art' beautiful building with a luxurious hardwood maple floor supporting its' combination use as a basketball court and two pickleball courts and a yearly Christmas Village.

The indoor temperature is kept low throughout the winter which makes it great for playing their very popular and well-attended pickleball schedule.

Community Center rule; hit the overhead steel girder with pickleball, and you lose the point. .....

..... so sorry!

John Mercier · 05-15-2022, 12:43 PM

But it still goes highly unused.

What they did was take a building that already existed... but was no longer needed for the purpose that it was built... and worked on finding a way that it could be useful again.

Old New Hampshire didn't like to waste.

Being in walking distance of most of Laconia - the Weirs would be a little far out even if the WOW trail was to shorten the distance - and having most everything else that could be thought of... the City decided on a community center.

No one that I have ever met can actually think of a different use for the building.

As they ''decommission'' current buildings... most are looked at to change into housing; but with the costs of material and labor currently... those projects take longer.

Moultonborough is talking about building a whole new building. These generally do not pay off in civic engagement... which is the underlying purpose of a community center.

Sue Doe-Nym · 05-15-2022, 03:52 PM

This community center/gymnasium issue has been going on for at least a decade….maybe more. When the Taj Mahal concept fails with a certain group of voters time and again, the must-have-it group keeps marching on. They have zero intention of compromising…and sadly, their concept of what’s necessary keeps getting more grandiose.. If they had been less combative and willing to negotiate, I think that we might already have a very acceptable facility on old rt. 109, a renovated, comfortable, affordable Lions Club building. All of this could have been achieved pre pandemic, pre inflation, pre rising interest rates, and escalating building costs. Now everyone is holding on to their wallets for dear life, and we may never get a new community center. 😎👏🏼🤞

TheProfessor · 05-19-2022, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longislander

You are correct that this drip approach only requires a majority vote of one

THEY are waiting for all of the older voters to die.

Then the younger voters can get their Shangri La all inclusive fantasy, dancing, running, swimming, party, complex.

Sue Doe-Nym · 05-19-2022, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

THEY are waiting for all of the older voters to die.

Then the younger voters can get their Shangri La all inclusive fantasy, dancing, running, swimming, party, complex.

When this older voter dies, they are welcome to all of those things, a total wonderland. However, I hope that someone can make them do the math, and cause an AHA! moment, that this monumental structure is going to cost millions to operate, over and above the initial cost…..and their property taxes will rise significantly. When it comes to common sense and math, their minds are closed.

tummyman · 05-20-2022, 09:30 AM

As stated by others, cost to run could be in the millions and I speculate might be more than 10% of the current town budget. Make no mistake....a "want" can quickly be a "need" with the right spin and there is lots of spin going on. We heard all about the "need" for the HUB but the proponents couldn't get a majority of voters to approve setting aside "free" money as bait to get contributions.

Next year the HUB group will press for a warrant article for their "need". I am sick of only having one option at town meeting. The solution is simple....the BOS needs to "do their job" and create a warrant article next year for a full renovation of the existing Lions facility and stop the "its for the Meals on Wheels". They are just a tenant....there are many more who can and do use the facility. Use the existing plans to renovate the facility that were created 3 years ago by an engineering firm. Use those plans and go out for a FIRM quotation before town meeting.

Next, offer the "HUB" group an option to lease for 99 years at $1 / year the needed ground space at the Lions site for a separate stand alone facility that has the gym and aquatics center that they purport has a large "need" in the community. Let those who see this "need" fund the construction, seek donations, and assume the annual operating costs...NOT THE TOWN.

It is time for the BOS to exert leadership and not be part of the "spin". We need to push them to dust off the old plans and get a firm bid...the sooner the better and BEFORE the town taxpayers get swamped with huge annual bond paybacks and equally large and ongoing annual operating costs for a "want" that has been spun as a "need".

phoenix · 05-20-2022, 08:10 PM

I never know where the bos stands maybe no where

Sue Doe-Nym · 05-20-2022, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenix

I never know where the bos stands maybe no where

I believe that they are more for it than against it. Chuck McGee, who did not run again, is against it.Those who are for it think that this will bring the town together! Is that ridiculous, or what?

John Mercier · 05-20-2022, 10:06 PM

The right project might... this might just not be it.

When Reagan and Bush adopted the campaign slogan ''Let's make America great again''... they were more focused on the Eisenhower/Kennedy years. They just didn't have the introvert though process of Ike, and were more like the extroverted Kennedy.

Even to this day... we seem to quest for the unite of the Eisenhower years. But the conditions to accomplish that, I don't think anyone has actually grasped.

05-15-2022, 09:22 AM	#2
phoenix Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: phoenix and moultonboro Posts: 1,559 Thanks: 61 Thanked 276 Times in 194 Posts	so what was the damage to taxpayers at yesterdays town meeting __________________ it's tough to make predictions specially about the future

05-15-2022, 11:14 AM	#5
phoenix Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: phoenix and moultonboro Posts: 1,559 Thanks: 61 Thanked 276 Times in 194 Posts	maybe the rec center crowd will finally quit or come up with an affordable request __________________ it's tough to make predictions specially about the future

05-15-2022, 12:18 PM	#9
phoenix Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: phoenix and moultonboro Posts: 1,559 Thanks: 61 Thanked 276 Times in 194 Posts	i guess you're right . the one thing they know if if it requires bonding they will lose so maybe continue the drip approach. Glad it got voted down __________________ it's tough to make predictions specially about the future

05-15-2022, 03:52 PM	#12
Sue Doe-Nym Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,441 Thanks: 755 Thanked 792 Times in 415 Posts	Many interesting comments here….. This community center/gymnasium issue has been going on for at least a decade….maybe more. When the Taj Mahal concept fails with a certain group of voters time and again, the must-have-it group keeps marching on. They have zero intention of compromising…and sadly, their concept of what’s necessary keeps getting more grandiose.. If they had been less combative and willing to negotiate, I think that we might already have a very acceptable facility on old rt. 109, a renovated, comfortable, affordable Lions Club building. All of this could have been achieved pre pandemic, pre inflation, pre rising interest rates, and escalating building costs. Now everyone is holding on to their wallets for dear life, and we may never get a new community center. 😎👏🏼🤞

05-20-2022, 09:30 AM	#15
tummyman Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 843 Thanks: 260 Thanked 687 Times in 244 Posts	As stated by others, cost to run could be in the millions and I speculate might be more than 10% of the current town budget. Make no mistake....a "want" can quickly be a "need" with the right spin and there is lots of spin going on. We heard all about the "need" for the HUB but the proponents couldn't get a majority of voters to approve setting aside "free" money as bait to get contributions. Next year the HUB group will press for a warrant article for their "need". I am sick of only having one option at town meeting. The solution is simple....the BOS needs to "do their job" and create a warrant article next year for a full renovation of the existing Lions facility and stop the "its for the Meals on Wheels". They are just a tenant....there are many more who can and do use the facility. Use the existing plans to renovate the facility that were created 3 years ago by an engineering firm. Use those plans and go out for a FIRM quotation before town meeting. Next, offer the "HUB" group an option to lease for 99 years at $1 / year the needed ground space at the Lions site for a separate stand alone facility that has the gym and aquatics center that they purport has a large "need" in the community. Let those who see this "need" fund the construction, seek donations, and assume the annual operating costs...NOT THE TOWN. It is time for the BOS to exert leadership and not be part of the "spin". We need to push them to dust off the old plans and get a firm bid...the sooner the better and BEFORE the town taxpayers get swamped with huge annual bond paybacks and equally large and ongoing annual operating costs for a "want" that has been spun as a "need". Last edited by tummyman; 05-20-2022 at 09:35 AM. Reason: Typo

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05-15-2022, 09:30 AM	#3
winni83 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 436 Thanks: 17 Thanked 216 Times in 136 Posts	Both Articles 7 and 8 failed to pass 😎👍

05-15-2022, 09:38 AM	#4
longislander Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 547 Thanks: 49 Thanked 101 Times in 76 Posts	Warrant https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/sit...dra_2022_0.pdf Articles of general interest: 7,8,14,23 all failed. Article 24 amended from $28,000 to $40,000 ... passed.

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05-15-2022, 11:50 AM	#6
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,478 Thanks: 3 Thanked 610 Times in 504 Posts	It wouldn't make a difference. It is a bad concept.

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CubRun (05-17-2022)

05-15-2022, 11:51 AM	#7
winni83 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 436 Thanks: 17 Thanked 216 Times in 136 Posts	Unfortunately the Taj Mahal community Center group will not take no for an answer. Some recent comments after the defeat at Town Meeting from the group’s social media: ‘Do not give up! You were closer than ever… never give up! 👏🏻💕😻” “don’t worry. We will continue our work on behalf of the entire Community.” They claim that they do not have any cost numbers, which strains credulity. A 34,000 square foot facility, including an “11,000 square foot facility featuring a 25-meter 5-lane pool for swimming lessons, water aerobics, and water polo.” And “a 40-foot therapy pool with a ramped entrance for no-impact physical therapy.” So 34,000 square feet at $400 psf is $13,600,000.00 Do the math for higher psf costs. And yearly staffing, operating and maintenance costs will surely be high. Yeah a really great way to try and spend our tax dollars. They say they are fundraising but at Town Meeting they stated that $17,000 had been raised.

05-15-2022, 11:58 AM	#8
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,478 Thanks: 3 Thanked 610 Times in 504 Posts	It isn't a matter of giving up. Small groups try things forever. But in the end the projects that get built are usually needed and largely supported. The day may come when this happens for them... but the concept would be so different as to not make sense to the people that started it. Even with Laconia's full time residential size and density... their community center goes largely unused.

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ACME on the Broads (05-17-2022)

05-15-2022, 12:43 PM	#11
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,478 Thanks: 3 Thanked 610 Times in 504 Posts	But it still goes highly unused. What they did was take a building that already existed... but was no longer needed for the purpose that it was built... and worked on finding a way that it could be useful again. Old New Hampshire didn't like to waste. Being in walking distance of most of Laconia - the Weirs would be a little far out even if the WOW trail was to shorten the distance - and having most everything else that could be thought of... the City decided on a community center. No one that I have ever met can actually think of a different use for the building. As they ''decommission'' current buildings... most are looked at to change into housing; but with the costs of material and labor currently... those projects take longer. Moultonborough is talking about building a whole new building. These generally do not pay off in civic engagement... which is the underlying purpose of a community center.

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05-20-2022, 08:10 PM	#16
phoenix Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: phoenix and moultonboro Posts: 1,559 Thanks: 61 Thanked 276 Times in 194 Posts	I never know where the bos stands maybe no where __________________ it's tough to make predictions specially about the future

05-20-2022, 10:06 PM	#18
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,478 Thanks: 3 Thanked 610 Times in 504 Posts	The right project might... this might just not be it. When Reagan and Bush adopted the campaign slogan ''Let's make America great again''... they were more focused on the Eisenhower/Kennedy years. They just didn't have the introvert though process of Ike, and were more like the extroverted Kennedy. Even to this day... we seem to quest for the unite of the Eisenhower years. But the conditions to accomplish that, I don't think anyone has actually grasped.