HUB status in Moultonborough

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Longislander, it sounds as though by their estimates, this HUB monstrosity will cost the taxpayer .07+/- per $1000 assessed value. Their figures do not take into account operating costs, which will be significant. Am I on the right track? Thanks.

[phoenix]

We have all seen how almost everything has gone up and to assume that this price won't go up if it gets out to bid is wishful thinking . Also interest rates may go up. So, whatever the estimate presented will end up going up. We need a great turnout of no voters as i assume all those in favor will be at the town meeting

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Longislander, it sounds as though by their estimates, this HUB monstrosity will cost the taxpayer .07+/- per $1000 assessed value. Their figures do not take into account operating costs, which will be significant. Am I on the right track? Thanks.

The 7 cents per thousand is the estimated annual operating cost for the first year.

[longislander]

Am I on the right track?

Just got back from Heath's. Making a stir-fry tonight.

Yes you are correct regarding the operating costs, they are not included. However, each of the 15 years has a different Y-Est Tax Rate Inc.., since the principal or interest has yearly change.The Hub estimate is $14,243,415 and the 2022 town valuation is $4,892,023,118.

I did two bonds, one, a Level Debt bond and the other for a Level Principal bond principal $14,243,415 at 5.25% interest for 15 years. I should say they are NHMBB, NH Municipal Bond Bank bonds, not mine. The calculation for what is the last column is mine, but the number is on the bond.

Here are the numbers from the last column of the Level Debt bond: the first year is .07 but is interest only. Year two is .27, the rest of the years are .28

Here are the numbers for the Level Principal bond: .07,.34, .33,.32,.31,.30,.29,28,.27,.26, 25,.24,.23, .22, .21, and two for last year .21,.20 (Feb & Aug.)


At the end of the 15years:
Level Debt bond: total Interest $6,692,400.02
Total payments for 15 years: $20,935,815.02

Level Principal bond:total interest $5,959,762.52
Total Payments for 15 years: $20,203,177.52.

Each year has a different total.

.07/1000 of $4,892,023,118 is $342,441 the interest only for the first year only, not what it will cost per year.
The $14,243,415 cost is 29% of the present town valuation of $4,892,023,118.

I won't post here the annual costs principal and interest for each for type of bond,but I have in the bonds in PDF format. Haven't tried to post a PDF yet.

The bond will probably be more because at the 12/15/22 select board meeting it was mentioned a number of $15 mllion was going to be used. Probably another million plus in the end.

This expense should show up annually in the budget (didn't say operating cost).

[longislander]

The 7 cents per thousand is the estimated annual operating cost for the first year.

No it's not. Operating costs aren't even the calculation. It is part of the building cost quote only.

The same contractor that did the $14,243,415 building estimate quoted $248,932 for total operating expense. If you believe that, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell ya!

[longislander]

We have all seen how almost everything has gone up and to assume that this price won't go up if it gets out to bid is wishful thinking . Also interest rates may go up. So, whatever the estimate presented will end up going up. We need a great turnout of no voters as i assume all those in favor will be at the town meeting

Agree.

And please stick around for a vote on SB2, since the bond has to legally be one of the first warrant articles voted on at town meeting.

[longislander]

I quoted your link...
Maybe you should have read it before posting it.

No you didn't ... you quoted part of it, I suspect. I won't bother looking it up. I do read and understand the links I post. Ohhh ... that's right. You're the one that had trouble understanding "fixed" from "fixed income" when nobody else seemed to have the difficulty. Sometimes only God can help, presuming an acceptance that God exists ... not just in Google!

[John Mercier]

The portion all talk of ''mail''.
Fixed is not adjusted.

Like a ''fixed'' mortgage... the rate doesn't adjust.

SS is not fixed... it is adjusted.
And many times adjusted far beyond earned income.

It is why the kids say... ''OK Boomer''.

[longislander]

The portion all talk of ''mail''.
Fixed is not adjusted.

Like a ''fixed'' mortgage... the rate doesn't adjust.

SS is not fixed... it is adjusted.
And many times adjusted far beyond earned income.

It is why the kids say... ''OK Boomer''.

What the hell are you saying!

[pondguy]

"If you build it they will come"

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by longislander

What the hell are you saying!

Really?
You don't know the difference between ''fixed'' and ''adjustable''?
You didn't know that an absentee voter registration or absentee vote in NH was most likely going to go through the mail?

Do you think a resident of Moultonborough working long hard hours to earn a living and seeing low wage increases is going to have sympathy for someone that just saw a bigger increase than they did?

It would be like may stating, woe is me... I watched my $7 million dollar portfolio go down to $6.5 million. The average person, even in Moultonborough, is not going to sympathize as my ''loss''.

The Millennials know they are getting the raw end of the deal because they are not on a ''fixed'' income...

[longislander]

You are so confused with your opinions ...

The portion all talk of ''mail''.
Fixed is not adjusted.

Like a ''fixed'' mortgage... the rate doesn't adjust.

SS is not fixed... it is adjusted.
And many times adjusted far beyond earned income.

It is why the kids say... ''OK Boomer''.

What the hell are you saying!

Now add...

Really?
You don't know the difference between ''fixed'' and ''adjustable''?
You didn't know that an absentee voter registration or absentee vote in NH was most likely going to go through the mail?

Do you think a resident of Moultonborough working long hard hours to earn a living and seeing low wage increases is going to have sympathy for someone that just saw a bigger increase than they did?

It would be like may stating, woe is me... I watched my $7 million dollar portfolio go down to $6.5 million. The average person, even in Moultonborough, is not going to sympathize as my ''loss''.

The Millennials know they are getting the raw end of the deal because they are not on a ''fixed'' income...

Repeat: What the hell are you saying?

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Getting back to my original question for longislander: are we assuming costs of $.36 + $.07 = $.43 per $1000 assessed value, to include operating expenses, such as staff salaries, utilities, insurance, etc., etc.? If so, a taxpayer with a property assessed at $1,000,000 would have an annual property tax increase of $430. Am I on the right track? So many unknowns, and this is so unnecessary!

[longislander]

Not trying to avoid the .$036/$1000 and $.06/$1000 but... maybe I am.

The survey says!:
"$0.36/$1000 of town assessed property value?"
"$0.06/$1000 of town assessed property value?"

$.36 + $.07 = $.43 per $1000 assessed value,

Definitely no, since operating costs are not part of the bond and the false .07 for intetrest only in the first year is ... is.

I'd suggest taking a different path and use the MoBo Tax Rate Breakdown;
Here goes and hope my math is correct:

Year Total =Municipal +County+ Local Ed +State Ed
2022 $ 4.78 $ =1.25+ $ 0.80 +$ 1.76 +$ 0.97

2022
Town tax rate is 1.25
Total tax rate is 4.78

The 1.25 is derived from dividing the tax effort by valuation = tax rate

For municipal rate 2022 it is $6,144,066/$4,892,023,118 X 1000 = 1.25
For total tax rate 2022 it is $23,355,110/$4862,373,529 X1000 = 4.78

Using an Amortization calculator

$15,000,000 bond for 15years @ 5.25% interest yields $120,582/month X 12 months = $1,446,984 (one year) X 15 years = $21,704,760
https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/a...on-calculator/

Add $1,446,984 to $6,144,066 = $7,591050 divided by valuation $4,892,023,118 = $ X 1000 = 1.55 new muni tax rate

Add $1,446,984 to $23,355,110 = $24,802,094 divided by valuation $4,892,023,118 =5.07 new total tax rate


To find the tax increase multiply your assessment by 4.78/1000 then multiply your assessmnet by 5.07/1000 and subtract the higher number from the lower number and that will be the dollar increase (with these numbers).

In other words subtract the present 2022 tax from the new tax and difference is the cost for that year. The added bond cost will be applied to the annual appropriation.

Check: 1.55+.80+1.76+.97 = 5.08 (close enough after rounding) new Total tax rate

[longislander]

Using the difference in tax rates, my tax bill would go up 21.3% if it had been done for this year.