"Owning" a private road

[Cal-to-NH]

Hi John. For my road I already discussed how the claim came about. In my friend's example, he was told by the "road owner" while he was working in his yard. Again, neither of these people own any lots on their respective roads.

And Tummyman, The verification from your attorney is exactly what I was looking for - thank you.
And I agree that most of us have some sort of "communal" maintenance for our roads - some formal and some informal, but the wonderful thing is that it all seems to work (in most cases). As far as the liability issue, that's great information! I guess it makes complete sense that it's a bit equivocal when you're dealing with insurance companies - for sure! After all, the property lines that we can document that we own ends at the road, right? A little scary! Didn't mean to open a can of worms on this question...

[tummyman]

"After all, the property lines that we can document that we own ends at the road, right?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yes, that was exactly why we pursued the insurance angle. We only own to the edge of the road. If I were you, I would also inquire of your insurance company to get their view.

An interesting item...I had often thought that since nobody owns the road, the title on the property might vest with the state as abandoned property (that is where all abandoned property goes) and that the state would never want to own it, so they would toss it back to the town. But never worked on that since I didn't want to spend the legal money. But it is an interesting thought.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Cal-to-NH

Hi John. For my road I already discussed how the claim came about. In my friend's example, he was told by the "road owner" while he was working in his yard. Again, neither of these people own any lots on their respective roads.

And Tummyman, The verification from your attorney is exactly what I was looking for - thank you.
And I agree that most of us have some sort of "communal" maintenance for our roads - some formal and some informal, but the wonderful thing is that it all seems to work (in most cases). As far as the liability issue, that's great information! I guess it makes complete sense that it's a bit equivocal when you're dealing with insurance companies - for sure! After all, the property lines that we can document that we own ends at the road, right? A little scary! Didn't mean to open a can of worms on this question...

So you, and those before you, have been using it for years/decades (?) and this is the first time the claimant has contact anyone? Regardless of the claimant's position, they may have lost the right to restrict access even if a deeded right-of-way does not exist.

https://alfanolawoffice.com/road-law...owns-the-road/

He would need to show clear intent when subdividing the lots and early in the process of deeding the lots.

[Cal-to-NH]

There is an interesting "by-product" of the way these roads appear on the GIS lots, and that may even contribute to the confusion. As Tummyman points out, in the beginning all the lots are divided-up into sellable lots, and the road itself is documented with its total area is listed on the map, just like all of the lots around it. In this way, every foot of land area was then (and is now) accounted for. I suspect as every lot gets sold and deeded that - by default only - it remains looking like a lot without an owner of record. I think we now know that any claims of road "ownership" by any single person is more than likely not true. And the fact that the road is listed on the Tax maps without having an owner of record is proof of that. It may-well be a misconception from people who track-back to the original subdivision of everything that since it was never sold, it must still somehow be "theirs". People are funny, aren't they?

Thanks to all for your very thoughtful input and references! A lot to think about...
Cal

[tis]

Originally Posted by Cal-to-NH

There is an interesting "by-product" of the way these roads appear on the GIS lots, and that may even contribute to the confusion. As Tummyman points out, in the beginning all the lots are divided-up into sellable lots, and the road itself is documented with its total area is listed on the map, just like all of the lots around it. In this way, every foot of land area was then (and is now) accounted for. I suspect as every lot gets sold and deeded that - by default only - it remains looking like a lot without an owner of record. I think we now know that any claims of road "ownership" by any single person is more than likely not true. And the fact that the road is listed on the Tax maps without having an owner of record is proof of that. It may-well be a misconception from people who track-back to the original subdivision of everything that since it was never sold, it must still somehow be "theirs". People are funny, aren't they?

Thanks to all for your very thoughtful input and references! A lot to think about...
Cal

Well thank you for informing me that I don't own the roads, even though I have been told by the town, the neighbors and attorneys that I do. I'd just as soon not because we too were concerned about the liability. I was told that we would not be liable. I don't remember the details.

[tummyman]

tis, I would not jump to a quick conclusion of no ownership. While you don't "own" the road in the traditional sense, according to NH law you do own half of it according to the courts / law. Hopefully you have a personal excess liability policy to take over where your homeowners policy stops, just to be sure you are covered in any event. A call to your insurance broker might be a good idea to be sure you are adequately protected before an event presents itself.


Please read pages 21 and on in this book.....

http://www.effinghamnh.net/wp-conten...lbook-2004.pdf

[Biggd]

I've run into this with our shared waterfront lot which is shared by 4 home owners. The first person to build a house has their name on the lot but they don't own it. We all have deeded rights to the lot.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I've run into this with our shared waterfront lot which is shared by 4 home owners. The first person to build a house has their name on the lot but they don't own it. We all have deeded rights to the lot.

The deeded rights are a type or Right-of-Way.
The listed property owner is the owner. The deeded access is restrictive to only those parties. A deeded ROW cannot be removed by the lot owner.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The deeded rights are a type or Right-of-Way.
The listed property owner is the owner. The deeded access is restrictive to only those parties. A deeded ROW cannot be removed by the lot owner.

They do not own the property, at least that's what I was told.
We don't have an official association name or that would be on it.
There has to be a name attached to every piece of property. I prefer their name rather than mine.

[John Mercier]

An attached name is the owner of record.

[longislander]

For deeds, the Grantor is the former owner, and the Grantee is the new owner.

The town (Moultonborough) will llist "owner information" on the "property card" of the tax/gis maps listed on the town website.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

An attached name is the owner of record.

If you say so, then it must be.

[John Mercier]

That is what it means to be ''owner of record''.
Every now and then, the towns find lots that have no owner of record... so the town acquires it as abandoned property.

For an OHRV or Snowmobile trail, they must have owner of record permission... except on town/city rights-of-way... those just need BoS or Council approval.

[longislander]

As Tummyman has suggested

Property ownership is set in the deed, as in the current deed in the registry.

Lot owners own to the centerline of the road, barring any stipulation in the deed, otherwise.

Easements do not relinquish ownership, only provide a legal right to pass and use. Do not confuse with "rangeways".


Additionally, maintenance of private roads require contributions by all. For example, if there are many lot owners sharing a private road (member of an HOA or not) all owners are legally required to share maintenance costs.

Private road
https://courts-state-nh-us.libguides...e%20...%22%20(

https://www.nh.gov/osi/resource-libr...quirements.pdf

https://alfanolawoffice.com/who-must...g%20the%20road.


MoBo town road list
https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/sit..._road_list.pdf

[LIforrelaxin]

So every property is different, you have to look at the deed. In my case the road is completely on the lot(s) behind my property, and my deed states I have access to my lot through this road. So in my case someone else does indeed own the road, as it is fully on their property.

Some years ago, I verified this by surveying my lot somewhat crudely......

At the end of the day, we have a very unofficial association, our deeds specify, that we have a right away to our lots, and that we are responsible for a portion of the upkeep of the road....

[Slickcraft]

A word of caution: NH has probably the most diverse and complex road law of any state. In many cases different attorneys with experience with road law will disagree on a specific “road”. I would not depend on the opinion of any specific town official as to the status of an older private road.

Newer subdivisions often have clear road ownership. Local planning boards normally require the road be built to town standards and dedicated to public use. The developer retains title until enough lots are sold for the town to take title to the road. Other new subdivisions may have a private road planned with common ownership of such along with any common land. The HOA agreement, as recorded, would spell this out. Not necessarily true for older subdivisions.

Try downloading a copy of the New Hampshire Municipal Association handbook here:
https://www.nhmunicipal.org/sites/de..._to_travel.pdf

Alan

[longislander]

Hasn't come up yet in this thread, but in case it does.

If no public money can be spent on private endeavors, how can moultonborough be legally plowing private roads?

Way back, some "select" private driveways were being plowed. Illegal then, and still illegal.

However, we found a legal loophole for plowing private roads. RSA 231:59-a
" ... or private way which has been declared an emergency lane ..."
https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa...1/231-59-a.htm

The select board held a public hearing, and declared the private roads emergency lanes.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...2f8d69d91.html

https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/sit...ds011118_1.pdf

[longislander]

Was going to add this in the last reply but didn't want to place too many. Probably should have included. There is no #2 policy, now.

https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/sit...ds011118_1.pdf

[Descant]

Originally Posted by tis

Well thank you for informing me that I don't own the roads, even though I have been told by the town, the neighbors and attorneys that I do. I'd just as soon not because we too were concerned about the liability. I was told that we would not be liable. I don't remember the details.

1. Reading the recent thread on trespassing, it would appear that you have no liability exposure.
2. Generally, personal liability insurance policies are not geographically restricted (e.g. homeowners, umbrella). A forgotten benefit of these policies is that if a claim is made against you, regardless of location, you insurance carrier will provide defense services.
3. When you bought your house, was there a survey? Title search? Open mechanics liens? Title insurance? Things used to be more casual.
4. If you or a neighbor wants to sell, will a new mortgagee want these issues resolved? It may be better to resolve such issues now, where there is no current neighborhood dispute or timeline/deadline for a mortgage or pending sale.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Descant

1. Reading the recent thread on trespassing, it would appear that you have no liability exposure.
2. Generally, personal liability insurance policies are not geographically restricted (e.g. homeowners, umbrella). A forgotten benefit of these policies is that if a claim is made against you, regardless of location, you insurance carrier will provide defense services.
3. When you bought your house, was there a survey? Title search? Open mechanics liens? Title insurance? Things used to be more casual.
4. If you or a neighbor wants to sell, will a new mortgagee want these issues resolved? It may be better to resolve such issues now, where there is no current neighborhood dispute or timeline/deadline for a mortgage or pending sale.

When we realized we were still the owners of one of these roads, that is what we were worried about and we were told as you said that we had no liability exposure. This is so old it goes back to my parents'. Most of the camps were built probably in the 1920s, but some of course, have been upgraded or rebuilt.

(the other road) We built our house but yes, when we bought the land there was a survey, title search. No liens. You know I can't remember if we bought title insurance. However, when we bought the land, the two houses were already there, we own on both sides of the road and pay taxes on it. We were told it is a ROW for those two houses. However, this doesn't concern me at all now, since my daughter owns one of the houses on the road and we own the other. The house we live in does not use the ROW.