Wolfeboro Police Chief

[TiltonBB]

I would respectfully disagree.

The local police officers attend the same academies that regional police forces attend. I know the Massachusetts State Police Academy routinely has training classes made up entirely of local police officers. Everything about those classes and what is taught is the same except issues that are specific to the State Police.

In the smaller towns a local police force becomes familiar with the local problems. They know the neighborhoods and the residents. When a resident has a need for polices services in situations like a home burglary or traffic accident, it is comforting to them to see a familiar face show up to assist them.

Often, the members of the police department have grown up in the towns they protect and have an even greater desire to serve their hometown than a new resident would. Many towns give residents preference or require new appointments to the police department to become residents if they do not already live in the community.

That familiarity is one thing that even the big cities are trying to encourage so that people feel comfortable talking to the police about their issues. Some cities have increased walking beats to create more interaction with the public. It helps communication and promotes the "If you see something, say something" efforts to reduce crime.

In these days of "Defund the police" the personal relationships with citizens will help to rebuild the respect for police and the rule of law that seems to be diminishing.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I would respectfully disagree.

In the smaller towns a local police force becomes familiar with the local problems. They know the neighborhoods and the residents. Often, the members of the police department have grown up in the towns they protect and have an even greater desire to serve their hometown than a new resident would. Many towns give residents preference or require new appointments to the police department to become residents if they do not already live in the community.

That familiarity is one thing that even the big cities are trying to encourage so that people feel comfortable talking to the police about their issues. Some cities have increased walking beats to create more interaction with the public. It helps communication and promotes the "If you see something, say something" efforts to reduce crime.

In these days of "defund the police" the personal relationships with citizens will help to rebuild the respect for police and the rule of law that seems to be diminishing.

I agree. We may need to change how some police departments are run and how officers are trained, and we may need to fire corrupt and/or abusive officers more quickly, but we all benefit from a good local police force

[tis]

I don't know if this is corruption. it might just be town politics, he might have offended someone. I heard from what I consider a pretty reliable source, that he submitted his resignation after being put on leave. Not sure if this is correct though so I post it with reluctance. The chief is very much a military man, goes by the book. I can't imagine him doing anything shady. But I guess you never know.

[Billy Bob]

First, there is NO defund the police movement. That’s fake news.

I,m not suggesting getting rid of the local regular officer that is assigned to specific neighborhoods . The problem is the duplicate management groups needed when all these small towns create a police force. We probably have a dozen higher paid police chiefs around the lake followed by all the duplicate buildings , staffs, etc. Put hem all under one chief and staff and use the savings to put more actual feet on the ground

[tis]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

First, there is NO defund the police movement. That’s fake news.

I,m not suggesting getting rid of the local regular officer that is assigned to specific neighborhoods . The problem is the duplicate management groups needed when all these small towns create a police force. We probably have a dozen higher paid police chiefs around the lake followed by all the duplicate buildings , staffs, etc. Put hem all under one chief and staff and use the savings to put more actual feet on the ground

It does seem like we have a lot of duplicate services but we do throw a lot of money around: 7 million here, 2 million there, all for pleasure things, like recreation, not necessities.

[Descant]

In actual practice, our small towns have access to much of the expertise and equipment that the cities have. There is a lot of sharing and cross training in the PD's just as there is in fire/rescue mutual aid. I like that my neighbor can go to the local PD, where s/he is known, to get a concealed carry permit, as opposed to going three towns away to the county seat where s/he is not known. I can recount several instances where I have received some personal kindness from a police officer in several towns around the state. This all comes from local leaders who foster community policing. And the administrators (chiefs) take their turns on nights and weekends, too. It's not all a M-F desk job.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by tis

It does seem like we have a lot of duplicate services but we do throw a lot of money around: 7 million here, 2 million there, all for pleasure things, like recreation, not necessities.

We've promoted the recreational aspects of our area for decades.

[tis]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

We've promoted the recreational aspects of our area for decades.

I know that but not this much!

[John Mercier]

Escalation that happens over the years.

[gokart-mozart]

The Police Commission and the Selectmen both had nonpublic meetings Wednesday and Thursday to deal with personnel matters.

It would be nice if they would issue a statement, even if it's only "nothing to disclose due to confidentiality, etc, etc"

[Major]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Escalation that happens over the years.

Exactly. I used this example in a prior post to emphasize the growth of government. When I was a student at Memorial Middle School (1977-1979), each grade had approximately twelve teachers (math, science, English and social studies), so 36 total. The "administration" consisted of the following:

• 1 Principal
• 1 Vice Principal
• 2 Guidance Counselors
• 2 Language Teachers
• 1 Secretary
• 1 Physical Education Teacher
• 1 Music Teacher
• 1 Art Teacher
• 1 School Nurse
• 1 Librarian

That's it. The "administration" consisted of 12 people. Three to one teachers to administrators.

Today, the Laconia Middle School has over 40 people to serve the "administration" function. As far as I could tell, there are more support staff than actual classroom teachers. I realize that kids are probably more messed up than when I was a kid. Believe me, we had our problems back in the day. Kids were expected to figure things out on their own. One noticable difference is that we didn't have kids on meds like we do now, though.

Escalation has happened. Especially with government. Police and fire departments seem to have a lot of "administration" too. Controlling spending involves harnessing the creep.

[TiltonBB]

Growing up through the 60's our grade 1 through 6 classes had 28 to 32 students and one teacher, no aide. I remember it as being organized and controlled, a good atmosphere to learn in.

Are the kids that much more difficult to control now? Is it mostly the kids that come from homes showing no respect for their teachers?

[Descant]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Growing up through the 60's our grade 1 through 6 classes had 28 to 32 students and one teacher, no aide. I remember it as being organized and controlled, a good atmosphere to learn in.

Are the kids that much more difficult to control now? Is it mostly the kids that come from homes showing no respect for their teachers?

I think we have a broader spectrum of students now due to mainstreaming. Kids from the LSS are now in the regular classrooms, for example. So, extra personnel with specialized expertise. They're needed, but they really aren't listed as "teachers". In addition to regular vacations, teachers have more options for (personal) time off. Solution? We hire more substitutes. I have a friend who retired and was immediately hired back as a full time substitute. I have another friend at a private school who told me that they don't use substitutes -- they "cover for each other" when somebody has to take time off. I expect there is little abuse of personal time off in that situation.

[John Mercier]

I meant escalation in a differing sense.
If you look at the difference between Meredith of the late 70s and Laconia... you get a sense of each municipalities focus to bring in business and customers.

It is always changing... so it creates escalation of the new ''wow''.

For schools it is much different in the educational format. MMS and Holy Trinity were feeders to LHS. But the predominate scholar competition was the Math teams.

Much easier to focus on Girard and Algebra I Honors, pick out the few stars and let us do our thing than in the current competition that measures education across the entire student body.

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Growing up through the 60's our grade 1 through 6 classes had 28 to 32 students and one teacher, no aide. I remember it as being organized and controlled, a good atmosphere to learn in.

Are the kids that much more difficult to control now? Is it mostly the kids that come from homes showing no respect for their teachers?

That was a different era when parents taught you right from wrong. When you wronged the teacher or vice principal straightened you out and mom and dad didn’t come to to your rescue. You had deal with mom and dad when you got home after the school had their turn. But then and again we spoke to cops with no sir and yes sir…..not with f-bombs.

[Major]

John raises a lot of good points. However, I think the issue about the chief in Wolfeboro comes down to our trust in local government and trust in the media reporting instances of corruption and bad dealing by our government officials.

Take for example the former chief of police in Gilford. He was widely celebrated, not for being a great cop, but for his sexual orientation. Articles upon articles in the LDS lauded him on this aspect of his life. However, when he was placed on leave and ultimately dismissed, hardly an article has been written. The LDS was too invested in its prior narrative, so it has chosen to give the matter a good leaving alone.

There are other instances of bad reporting - we only heard one side of the Gunstock issue. There is another side that is worthy of discussion.

As taxpayers, we have the right to be informed when our government officials behave badly or spend our money unwisely. Of course, we have to balance our rights against the rights of the individual being charged. However, it seems like our rights as taxpayers depend on whether there is a political aspect to the malfeasance.

As citizens, we have the right to a fair and unbiased reporting of these matters. In this case, we can't have that level of confidence since we have been burned in the past.

[John Mercier]

The Gilford Chief, I believe was placed on admin leave - though sealed due to investigation - I seem to remember it was around the happens at WAM; and he was never charged. His resignation may have simply been that he felt he could no longer command the respect of the community, and his leaving would be in the best interests of all.

The Gunstock issue would require the opening of the legal documents.
Silber and Sylvia put a squash to that. O'Hara pursued; but something seems to led him astray - as they have not currently been released.
Whatever they and their supports intended to cover up may never be known.

LDS probably would not have standing to RTK of sealed documents, but you could easily press your local representatives to open those documents to public scrutiny. So more our fault than LDS.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The Gunstock issue would require the opening of the legal documents.
Silber and Sylvia put a squash to that. O'Hara pursued; but something seems to led him astray - as they have not currently been released.
Whatever they and their supports intended to cover up may never be known.

Yes--Silber and Sylvia stopped the release of information.

This enables their supporters, such as Major, to continue alluding to some sinister plot from others, when the misbehavior was all theirs

[John Mercier]

Silber and Sylvia have been removed.

So the question of a ''sinister'' plot still remains with the current legislators.
Why not acquire the information and release it publicly.

I called on all three of representatives to do so... and actually supported O'Hara largely based on his intent to do so.

[Major]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Yes--Silber and Sylvia stopped the release of information.

This enables their supporters, such as Major, to continue alluding to some sinister plot from others, when the misbehavior was all theirs

With all due respect, have you spoken to Silber or Sylvia about it? I have. There are two sides to the story. One side has been reported. The other side has not.


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

With all due respect, have you spoken to Silber or Sylvia about it? I have. There are two sides to the story. One side has been reported. The other side has not.


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I look forward to your report...

(But of course I know you're going to say you need to protect their confidentiality...or it's coming...or some such baloney.)

[Major]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I look forward to your report...

(But of course I know you're going to say you need to protect their confidentiality...or it's coming...or some such baloney.)

Of course. It’s not my place to comment publicly.

However, I’ll say this. I’ve had the privilege of working with Norm on several personal legal matters. I found him to be very professional, honest, a man having great integrity. You can believe what you want or read in the paper. He’s not the type of person to complain or explain.


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[RockHopster]

Originally Posted by Major

Take for example the former chief of police in Gilford. He was widely celebrated, not for being a great cop, but for his sexual orientation. Articles upon articles in the LDS lauded him on this aspect of his life. However, when he was placed on leave and ultimately dismissed, hardly an article has been written. The LDS was too invested in its prior narrative, so it has chosen to give the matter a good leaving alone.

I will respectfully disagree

Once can easily search for LDS past stories. Just google: Laconia Daily Sun subject matter. in this case Bean Burpee.

I could not find a single example of The Sun "lauding him on this aspect of his life". So there was no prior narrative preventing the publishing of the five stories that ran on his dismissal. 4 by Mike Mortensen, 1 by Robert Baker.

https://www.google.com/search?q=laco...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[TiltonBB]

Police Commissioner Wood:
“We live in a society where you have the right to due process. When the investigation is complete, we make determinations, we will talk with legal counsel and we will release everything to the public that we can.”

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...31139340b.html

[tis]

It's funny because when a commissioner made an inappropriate remark resulting in the end of his service, we heard immediately what was going on.

[Heaven]

Originally Posted by tis

It's funny because when a commissioner made an inappropriate remark resulting in the end of his service, we heard immediately what was going on.

A commissioner is not an employee

[tis]

Originally Posted by Heaven

A commissioner is not an employee

So? He still is a representative of the town.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SAB1

That was a different era when parents taught you right from wrong. When you wronged the teacher or vice principal straightened you out and mom and dad didn’t come to to your rescue. You had deal with mom and dad when you got home after the school had their turn. But then and again we spoke to cops with no sir and yes sir…..not with f-bombs.

Those were days when authority was not questioned... it resulted in the malfeseance that we now witness daily in the news.
It took awhile for us to ''awaken'' but we have gotten there.

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Those were days when authority was not questioned... it resulted in the malfeseance that we now witness daily in the news.
It took awhile for us to ''awaken'' but we have gotten there.

Not necessarily. The world seemed to work well then, much better than it functions now. A little respect goes a long way.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Not necessarily. The world seemed to work well then, much better than it functions now. A little respect goes a long way.

We just didn't see it as much.
The pedophile priest, false televangelist, crooked politicians, drug-abusing doctors, etc... those were all hidden.

The reason that Peyton Place was such a shocking novel at the time, people didn't talk about it in public.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

We just didn't see it as much.
The pedophile priest, false televangelist, crooked politicians, drug-abusing doctors, etc... those were all hidden. The reason that Peyton Place was such a shocking novel at the time, people didn't talk about it in public.

Same with racial justice and LGBTQ issues.

Open up Pandora's box and ... surprise, surprise.

[SAB1]

I guess you can’t argue that but I think you can certainly argue the frequency of issues is certainly higher now. Part of degradation of society. This thread could certainly go off the rails discussing that so I’ll bow out now lol.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Escalation that happens over the years.

Isn’t this true in all areas rather than just limited to government? Camps have grown into mansions, cars and trucks are bigger and more powerful, boats are bigger, etc. Since this is how we as a people live our personal lives it makes sense that this mentality spills over into how businesses and government institutions are funded and structured.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Garcia

Isn’t this true in all areas rather than just limited to government? Camps have grown into mansions, cars and trucks are bigger and more powerful, boats are bigger, etc. Since this is how we as a people live our personal lives it makes sense that this mentality spills over into how businesses and government institutions are funded and structured.

The mentality switches over time.
For a PD or FD, it may be the argument between resident population and seasonal population... and wholly dependent on whether qualified seasonal labor can be acquired at a competitive rate.

Our promotion of recreation is the general driver of the disparity; at least for this area.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

First, there is NO defund the police movement. That’s fake news.

I guess technically, you are correct. There is presently no "defund the police" movement. (At least not one that anyone would put there name to.)
There most certainly was a defund police movement, especially in the summer of 2020. Many political leaders talked about defunding the police in favor of alternate approaches. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OWiRuJgtVE

However, as we all know, the label of defund the police attained an undesirable stigma. Now those who agree with the concept but not the name call it police reform. Kamala would call it police reimagining. Same thing, different name.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Major

I guess technically, you are correct. There is presently no "defund the police" movement. (At least not one that anyone would put there name to.)
There most certainly was a defund police movement, especially in the summer of 2020. Many political leaders talked about defunding the police in favor of alternate approaches. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OWiRuJgtVE

However, as we all know, the label of defund the police attained an undesirable stigma. Now those who agree with the concept but not the name call it police reform. Kamala would call it police reimagining. Same thing, different name.

I believe that he was suggesting that in NH, we fund our police with local property taxes... and no movement amongst most of the NH municipalities existed at any time to ''defund the police'' - so for us, it was just a political tag line... not reality.
I think Croydon or Grafton may have gone so far as to defund their PD (usually just a chief in small NH towns) - but that would be due to the Free State Project, not a general attitude.

[Major]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I believe that he was suggesting that in NH, we fund our police with local property taxes... and no movement amongst most of the NH municipalities existed at any time to ''defund the police'' - so for us, it was just a political tag line... not reality.

I agree with that.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

First, there is NO defund the police movement. That’s fake news.

There's a headline today "Refund the Police", which includes a video interview with the mayor saying, "We need to bring back retired police officers".

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

I,m not suggesting getting rid of the local regular officer that is assigned to specific neighborhoods . The problem is the duplicate management groups needed when all these small towns create a police force. We probably have a dozen higher paid police chiefs around the lake followed by all the duplicate buildings , staffs, etc. Put them all under one chief and staff and use the savings to put more actual feet on the ground

Sounds good on paper; however, when I lived in a County of 2,431 square miles, a shooting occurred across my street. The first officer who came to the scene was from the abutting town! The County officer responded about 15 minutes later.

Prior to this occasion, I'd seen only one County patrol car passing through our neighborhood in fifteen years. ('Figured he was lost).

[gokart-mozart]

Announced by Police Commission 2 hours ago. Chairman Steve Wood declined any further comment.

[tis]

Originally Posted by gokart-mozart

Announced by Police Commission 2 hours ago. Chairman Steve Wood declined any further comment.

I heard that the day after the news broke but didn't know if it was true or not. Maybe it is and he just didn't want to go through all the ----.

[gokart-mozart]

Originally Posted by tis

I heard that the day after the news broke but didn't know if it was true or not. Maybe it is and he just didn't want to go through all the ----.

Sorry, I should have sourced the Union Leader, where this story ran last night. I have not seen it anywhere else.

[Billy Bob]

Originally Posted by ApS

There's a headline today "Refund the Police", which includes a video interview with the mayor saying, "We need to bring back retired police officers".


Sounds good on paper; however, when I lived in a County of 2,431 square miles, a shooting occurred across my street. The first officer who came to the scene was from the abutting town! The County officer responded about 15 minutes later.

Prior to this occasion, I'd seen only one County patrol car passing through our neighborhood in fifteen years. ('Figured he was lost).

Nice one off story however we don’t have any 2’431 sq mile counties. I am not suggesting reducing the number of street patrol units I am suggesting removing all the duplicate management level people in all these small towns and consolidateing management and chiefs. The result would be substantially more police on the streets and fewer chiefs etc with nothing to do and no prospect for promotion

[John Mercier]

Each town/city would need to make that agreement and enter into some sort of cost-sharing formula that they all agree to.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

Nice one off story.

It's hard to forget. My neighbors, driving their Cadillac, returned from grocery shopping in the dark. A carload of robbers tried to force them into their house. The husband, a tennis player in his 70s, put up a pretty good fight in their carport. The commotion got my attention, so I walked out into my front lawn--got shot at--and exchanged gunfire with them.

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

I am not suggesting reducing the number of street patrol units I am suggesting removing all the duplicate management level people in all these small towns and consolidateing management and chiefs. The result would be substantially more police on the streets and fewer chiefs etc with nothing to do and no prospect for promotion

One week after the above confrontation, they struck again, using the same M.O. This time, the victim was Robert L. Shevin, back then, the State's Attorney General! I didn't know he lived just across a canal from me.

Bob Shevin's community, Pinecrest Village, is a "bedroom community" for perhaps hundreds of other lawyers who need only 15 minutes to commute to the downtown Justice Building.

That village subsequently became incorporated with its own police force, becoming the newest of 40+ towns and villages in the County.

BTW: Back when the FBI was doing actual detective work, two agents were shot dead there in 1984. (Before Pinecrest Village became incorporated).

Trying to "undo" what has already been done--especially by lawyers--is a fool's errand.


As for reducing "chiefs", that's not how law enforcement works: Underlings either collect more pay, more overtime, more inventive time-off schemes, or get promoted. Where I worked, the workload is down, but they've hired twice the people; worse, there's one paid supervisor for every three people!

Besides, if a Carroll County Sheriff's Deputy were to receive a call regarding a confrontation at "Chipmunk Hollow", how many minutes would his response-time be from nearby Alton?