AMC and Blueberry

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

As property owners, it is our responsibility under the law to follow the law as to our intent. We must fence/gate or legally post the prohibition with our name and address.

If they change the sign to meet the legal requirement, LEOs would be able to cite the violation. Without that, someone authorized must verbally inform anyone to enters the property that they must leave... and should they want to press charges need to contact an LEO immediately. The LEO can only act when they witness the trespass.

Sure, but there is no law requiring them to post anything. If they decide to post then people can be prosecuted, but that is the owner's/AMC's prerogative, not responsibility. This whole idea that the owners or the AMC (also private, BTW) owes anybody anything in this case is some kind of weird socialist BS.

Plus, John, I'm doubly pissed with you--you're supposed to be the conservative, and I'm supposed to be the liberal, haha

[tummyman]

Folks...STOP replies to this thread. All it does is fuel more nonsense from the original OP. He got his answer more than once. Why debate or respond? He apparently has a problem that cannot be solved with respect for others property. And let's not all play lawyer with what signs can or cannot be used. ENOUGH !!!! Just let him go away. The more people respond, the more this goes on and on. Surely there are more important things to do than debate nonsense. Just my opinion....from now on, this thread is not worthy of my time and it should be likewise to others.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by tummyman

Folks...STOP replies to this thread. All it does is fuel more nonsense from the original OP. He got his answer more than once. Why debate or respond? He apparently has a problem that cannot be solved with respect for others property. And let's not all play lawyer with what signs can or cannot be used. ENOUGH !!!! Just let him go away. The more people respond, the more this goes on and on. Surely there are more important things to do than debate nonsense. Just my opinion....from now on, this thread is not worthy of my time and it should be likewise to others.

Thanks for the nudge—you're totally right.

Have a great day, friends!

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

[Randardo]

Yep, too exhausting for me as well, I'll go away as well! See you on the lake!
Randy

[ApS]

Originally Posted by tummyman

Folks...STOP replies to this thread. All it does is fuel more nonsense from the original OP. He got his answer more than once. Why debate or respond? He apparently has a problem that cannot be solved with respect for others property. And let's not all play lawyer with what signs can or cannot be used. ENOUGH !!!! Just let him go away. The more people respond, the more this goes on and on. Surely there are more important things to do than debate nonsense. Just my opinion....from now on, this thread is not worthy of my time and it should be likewise to others.

Just shut up?

[longislander]

In agreement with Tummyman.

However, a comment on the statements regarding the legal issue of postings etc.

"Trespassing" is not just about "posting"; cf. Title 635: UNAUTHORIZED ENTRIES, especially RSA 635:2 I. A person is guilty of criminal trespass if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place.

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa.../635/635-2.htm

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa.../635/635-4.htm

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa...C-LXII-635.htm

Hopefully this won't trigger another long debate, on how to define trespass.

[longislander]

RSA 635:4 Prescribed Manner of Posting. – A person may post his land to prohibit criminal trespass ...

The statute doesn't say "shall".

[John Mercier]

You may... but if you don't... the LEO will not write the violation.

You can permanently sit someone on the property and tell them they have to leave...

Should an LEO write a violation, the court is going to question why post signs and not bother to follow the posting requirements. At that point to secure the violation, the AMC may be required to send someone to testify in the case, and provide the written documentation that allows them to restrict others.

So much easier just to sign as prescribe by law.

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by tummyman

Folks...STOP replies to this thread. All it does is fuel more nonsense from the original OP. He got his answer more than once. Why debate or respond? He apparently has a problem that cannot be solved with respect for others property. And let's not all play lawyer with what signs can or cannot be used. ENOUGH !!!! Just let him go away. The more people respond, the more this goes on and on. Surely there are more important things to do than debate nonsense. Just my opinion....from now on, this thread is not worthy of my time and it should be likewise to others.

But this wouldn’t be a proper forum post if it didn’t eventually devolve into some form of bickering.

[John Mercier]

Because none of them ever look at the history of posting and the outcomes.

The farmer on the Rockingham Recreational trail, that decided ''Private Property'' as enough. But now has a felony on his record.

Even more recent and local, Ward Bird that was sure he was innocent... until he was prosecute, found guilty by 12 residents, and sentenced with a felony.
If it wasn't for a ''liberal'' Governor; he would have sat in prison for years.

They don't even consider the recent attempt to lower the standards for legal posting... that has the support of private property owners everywhere.

Heck, if no one question the posting of my woodlot, I would have never known that my neighbor took it upon himself to make that decision without any authority whatsoever.

Legal posting as prescribed tends to end the question.

[longislander]

You may... but if you don't... the LEO will not write the violation.

You can permanently sit someone on the property and tell them they have to leave...

Should an LEO write a violation, the court is going to question why post signs and not bother to follow the posting requirements. At that point to secure the violation, the AMC may be required to send someone to testify in the case, and provide the written documentation that allows them to restrict others.

So much easier just to sign as prescribe by law.

Is everyone supposed to know what is meant by "LEO" as in presumably in "Law Enforcement Officer" ? Which ... Fish and Game? FBI? Local town cop? What stops someone from filing suit in court themselves?

What makes you think LEO, or JANE or HARRY or whomever will not do their job? What makes you think a court will not read, interpret law, and act accordingly?

Two separate statutes with separate legal strategies, and ease of execution.

A "selfie" or video with warning not to trespass, especially with a witness, will be a quick victory to prevail in court. Repeat trespass will enhance quick court decision.

Good thing nothing in this thread or website is legal advice, since only attorney's can give legal advice under penalty of UPL (Unauthorized Practice of Law). You can Google this as well.

No need for an attorney. Go Pro Se. A lot of of us do for these trivial court cases.

[John Mercier]

Because you can't write a ticket.
And if you are standing there... and ask them to leave... they have no longer committed an offense.
They have to remain after you have asked the to leave.

The posted sign is ambiguous. It is the action and vocal command of the agent communicating that they must leave.

A camera picking up an intruder with a sign that directly prohibits the trespass. That would not need private prosecution, nor open the door to civil forfeiture, because private prosecution does not inherently grant prosecutorial immunity. They would just present it to the local police, F&G, or any of the others... since most have the ability charge. Their jurisdiction was broadened.

[longislander]

You don't need to write "a ticket" ... you're not taking a bus or train ride!

You file a Civil Complaint (formerly called a Civil Writ or Civil Writ of Summons) and is not difficult. Electronic filing has made the process much simpler for the filer.

Not one instance of trespass, but subsequent trespass after being informed not to come on the property. Most folks will honor the request. If not, then that's what the courts are for.

I didn't reference "the sign". My initial comment was simply to point out another statute other then posting. Posting is a subset to avoid trespass, and honor the property owner's request.

A camera picking up an intruder with a sign that directly prohibits the trespass. That would not need private prosecution, nor open the door to civil forfeiture, because private prosecution does not inherently grant prosecutorial immunity. They would just present it to the local police, F&G, or any of the others... since most have the ability charge. Their jurisdiction was broadened.

Your kidding ... right ... whatever it's supposed to mean.

Additionally, care would have to taken for cameras and electronic evidence in case of accusations of Photoshop and other means to falsify evidence. Cops will not pursue a trespass charge unless harm or damages is involved, even if they have a clue who the trespasser is.

[Randardo]

The Cowardly Lion?

I really want this thread to end, I think I made my point, but here we are.... as the one who started this discussion, I come back to my original point, something no one "shall" take on, clear language POSTED on, and regarding the use of, Blueberry Island....

Such a simple request, something AMC (Nicky) nor 10 yr anniversary guy couldn't grasp.... Clarification for all and once and for all.

Private Property, off limits to Winnipesaukee boaters… No Trespassing with the exception of AMC Staff and guests residing at Three Mile Island per cooperation between Blueberry Island Owners and the AMC.

Side note, something I find rather interesting, no one here "signs" their name after a post.... Drop a turd, run and hide....?

Let's drop this subject once and for all and focus our attention elsewhere.

Randy

[Randardo]

With the exception of John Mercier... I'd have to imagine that's truly who he is.... and with that... John, Randy Langer, pleasure to meet you, enjoyed your comments and insight.

[longislander]

Is this you?
Randolph Noel Langer, 59
RESIDES IN NAVARRE, FL
Lived In Berlin MA, Newport News VA, Meredith NH, Carrollton VA
Related To Cornelia Langer, Brigitte Langer, Horst Langer

Maybe that's why the webmaster doesn't require "names"; real, fake, or perceived!

My name is Joe Cormier, if I'm your reference. If you have any clue about Moultonborough, and are cognizant of goings-on in Moultonborough, you'll know who I am.

How many other posters on this site do not include their names,or rather how many do include their names.

"I really want this thread to end, I think I made my point, but ...

"
How many times is "I" used! Says something about the poster. Maybe "but" should have two tt's!

Side note, something I find rather interesting, no one here "signs" their name after a post.... Drop a turd, run and hide....?

Let's drop this subject once and for all and focus our attention elsewhere.

Randy

Pearls of wisdom ... ehhh!

Want the thread to end ... stop posting, not that anyone cares what you want, anyway.

[mofn]

We had a big run in there 7/6? Stopped that night 7.30ish to let some young kids get in the water we had out fishing. NOT on land NOR anchored to land when the A.M.C. “sea dog” showed up w/ a boat load of millennial’s and a overloaded Boston Whaler w/ same. It started as a screaming match about it was posted and they were they to save the island and clean it up with the owner’s permission.
We told them get bent we were not on the island in the water.
When they went ashore…no rakes, shovels, trash bags, but was carrying a large square object in a bag like carrier?
Never asked us after that contentious showdown if we wanted to help clean up.
We were there swimming and on the boat fishing for 30 minutes? Backside of the island (Bear side) they were not cleaning up it was a drinking party! Witnessed by 4 adults & 4 kids. And A.M.C. if you are going to claim you were looking at the stars put the small telescopes to your eyes and not your mouth.
To be properly posted when you Google in N.H….. owners name and address on the sign, which it’s not.

[Randardo]

I posted seeking clarification from the AMC regarding Blueberry Island and it's culminated with "Joe" Google searching my name and posting all my information on this forum..... Something very disturbing about that...

Wish you all the best Joe.....

Horst Langer, WWII Veteran, Dead
Brigitte F Langer, Dead
Randolph N Langer, Desert Storm Veteran, Iraqi Freedom Veteran, 24 yrs of honorable military service.

Anything else Joe? What else would you like to exploit and destroy about me or my family?

[longislander]

"Joe" Google searching my name and posting all my information on this forum..... Something very disturbing about that...

It's called ...TODAY!
Didn't bother to gather "all" your info. Don't care about it.

Thanks for confirming it is you.

If you are not aware that a simple, one-time name search produces a bunch of data, then you should refrain from your attacks on others. The giveaway was "Meredith".

In Kind:
Joe Cormier
Vietnam Vet. In-country May 1967-Feb. 1969
Served in the 189th Assault Helicopter Co. 52nd Combat Aviation Battalion
MOS-Avionics plus a UH-1 door-gunner.
Because of multiple MOS's (school and job trained) also spent a couple of months, (Nov.-Dec 1067) TDY, with the 5th Special Forces group at FOB2, Kontum in the Central Highlands; Missions into Cambodia and Laos where the papers said there were no US troops, just before the Tet offensive in Jan. 1968; base camp was Holloway in Pleiku, II corps Central Highlands.

Beginning of 1969 also worked TDY with the White Horse division ROKS, Republic of Korea (South Korea) just before heading back stateside and Honorable discharge, with commendations.

There's a lot more to my data and could care less who searches it. My three degrees in business, including MBA, paralegal certification, and a few bucks can get me a coffe at Dunkies.

Have a great life. I'm enjoying mine.

[pondguy]

WOW, this is a fun read......NOT!

[camp guy]

This thread has really sunk well below civility. Is everyone so mad at the world that their answer is to beat up on fellow Forum members. Give it a rest, please.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by longislander

You don't need to write "a ticket" ... you're not taking a bus or train ride!

You file a Civil Complaint (formerly called a Civil Writ or Civil Writ of Summons) and is not difficult. Electronic filing has made the process much simpler for the filer.

Not one instance of trespass, but subsequent trespass after being informed not to come on the property. Most folks will honor the request. If not, then that's what the courts are for.

I didn't reference "the sign". My initial comment was simply to point out another statute other then posting. Posting is a subset to avoid trespass, and honor the property owner's request.



Your kidding ... right ... whatever it's supposed to mean.

Additionally, care would have to taken for cameras and electronic evidence in case of accusations of Photoshop and other means to falsify evidence. Cops will not pursue a trespass charge unless harm or damages is involved, even if they have a clue who the trespasser is.

A civil complaint gets you nothing except wasting your money and time sitting in court.
Most logical landowners don't want to waste any time in court, any cost associated with court, nor put any risk upon themselves.

[ITD]

Hmmm, apparently some of you have never posted to an internet forum before. The only thing you control about the conversation is your decision to push the "submit reply" button. That's it. Use that button wisely if your skin is thin.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Sure, but there is no law requiring them to post anything. If they decide to post then people can be prosecuted, but that is the owner's/AMC's prerogative, not responsibility. This whole idea that the owners or the AMC (also private, BTW) owes anybody anything in this case is some kind of weird socialist BS.

Plus, John, I'm doubly pissed with you--you're supposed to be the conservative, and I'm supposed to be the liberal, haha

It is tradition dating back to the 1600s. Socialism wouldn't even really be a thing for 200 years after that. And it is considered conservative to retain tradition, which is why the law is as it is.

The AMC doesn't get a special set of statutes differing from other landowners. They just now feel the heat of population that farmers have felt for decades.

All attempts to change the posting rule have failed, except for motorized use... which prior to about 2003 was open anywhere that it was not posted prohibited.
That change was a pressure on snowmobiles losing dominance.