Hypothetical tax question

John Mercier · 12-12-2023, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major

Small world! I worked for Cookson Electronics, which was owned by Cookson Group plc and owned Polyclad, from 2000 to 2003. I cashed out my Cookson options in 2004. I don't remember a particular tax issue. Hopefully I did it correctly!

They were using ADRs by then.

The ESOP for us came in the mid-90s, and first round no one realized the limitations.

Major · 12-12-2023, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier

They were using ADRs by then.

The ESOP for us came in the mid-90s, and first round no one realized the limitations.

Good to know. Did you know Joe S., Dick M., Steve O. or Bill V.? Very nice people there.

Mr. V · 12-12-2023, 05:37 PM

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when from taxes we seek relief...

How true that is.

John Mercier · 12-12-2023, 08:10 PM

All Polyclad employees knew the executive staff. Richard wanted it that way.
I think he may have gotten it from Mike. When Mike owned the company, and for the five year tenure that he led under Cookson, he would walk the Franklin plant about once a week and talk to everyone. Joe would hardly ever be seen. He would join the crews during holiday parties.

Even after taking the presidency, Joe was mostly seen during holiday parties; but by that time we had moved from the three small plants to international, so nobody really expected to see him as much as they had Mike; though most of the old timers would bring it up every so often.

Ostrow, I would see all the time... but that was mostly the interaction between engineering and quality control. Varnell only occasionally as I had to review the quality of some new processing changes that would come about under his tenure. He would usually come to me with Steve.

Not really sure who Dick M. is...
We had several Richard's that worked for us over the years... and I doubt it could be Dick McDonald. I don't remember him being with the company in 2002.

Major · 12-13-2023, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier

All Polyclad employees knew the executive staff. Richard wanted it that way.
I think he may have gotten it from Mike. When Mike owned the company, and for the five year tenure that he led under Cookson, he would walk the Franklin plant about once a week and talk to everyone. Joe would hardly ever be seen. He would join the crews during holiday parties.

Even after taking the presidency, Joe was mostly seen during holiday parties; but by that time we had moved from the three small plants to international, so nobody really expected to see him as much as they had Mike; though most of the old timers would bring it up every so often.

Ostrow, I would see all the time... but that was mostly the interaction between engineering and quality control. Varnell only occasionally as I had to review the quality of some new processing changes that would come about under his tenure. He would usually come to me with Steve.

Not really sure who Dick M. is...
We had several Richard's that worked for us over the years... and I doubt it could be Dick McDonald. I don't remember him being with the company in 2002.

Joe was tight with Ray Sharpe, so that's probably why you didn't see him much. He spent a lot of time in Providence. Steve is a sweetheart. Unfortunately, Bill passed away about 7 years ago from cancer. Dick M. is Richard Mahoney. Great guy.

I never met Mike, but he was friends with my dad. Some legendary stories about him!

John Mercier · 12-13-2023, 01:14 PM

Forgot about Mahoney.

Mike was a character.

retired · 01-26-2024, 01:10 PM

Since the property is owned jointly, the surviving spouse gets a stepped up basis for only half of the value. He/she should consider living in it as their primary home long enough to get the $250,000 exclusion on the gain. If they plan on keeping it until death and passing it on to the kids, then they will get a full step up in basis.

jeffk · 01-26-2024, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retired

Since the property is owned jointly, the surviving spouse gets a stepped up basis for only half of the value. He/she should consider living in it as their primary home long enough to get the $250,000 exclusion on the gain. If they plan on keeping it until death and passing it on to the kids, then they will get a full step up in basis.

As I previously noted, IF you are living in a COMMUNITY PROPERTY STATE, like NH, then it is likely the surviving spouse will get a FULL stepped up basis because the ownership in such a state is considered to be 100% BY EACH SPOUSE.

There may some nuances, such as when the property was purchased, etc. Therefore, as mentioned by many, if you want a definitive answer FOR YOUR SITUATION, CONTACT AN ATTORNEY in the state where you live. If the property is owned in a different state than where you live, you might want to talk to an attorney in the state where the property is as well.

phoenix · 01-26-2024, 03:53 PM

that's what my tax acct said also full step up and that's what i did on the estate tax return i filed.

longislander · 01-27-2024, 09:17 AM

Discuss "homestead property" and is the deed "joint ownership with rights of survivorship" with an attorney.

NH is not a community property state. Also confirm with an attorney.

jeffk · 01-28-2024, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffk

As I previously noted, IF you are living in a COMMUNITY PROPERTY STATE, like NH, then it is likely the surviving spouse will get a FULL stepped up basis because the ownership in such a state is considered to be 100% BY EACH SPOUSE.

There may some nuances, such as when the property was purchased, etc. Therefore, as mentioned by many, if you want a definitive answer FOR YOUR SITUATION, CONTACT AN ATTORNEY in the state where you live. If the property is owned in a different state than where you live, you might want to talk to an attorney in the state where the property is as well.

Mea culpa! I apologize for incorrect information. It seems that NH is NOT a community property state. When I originally checked, several seemingly reliable sources indicated it was. Now I am seeming more sources that say it is NOT!

CHECK WITH AN ATTORNEY!

longislander · 01-28-2024, 08:19 AM

And ask about possible confusion with an "equitable distribution" state, which NH is.

Further clarification with the attorney that "equitable distribution" is not the same as "equal distribution".

12-12-2023, 05:37 PM	#3
Mr. V Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: the left coast (Portland)and West Alton Posts: 1,423 Thanks: 66 Thanked 260 Times in 178 Posts	Oh what a tangled web we weave, when from taxes we seek relief... How true that is. __________________ basking in the benign indifference of the universe

01-26-2024, 01:10 PM	#7
retired Senior Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Belmont, NH Posts: 144 Thanks: 2 Thanked 69 Times in 40 Posts	Answer Since the property is owned jointly, the surviving spouse gets a stepped up basis for only half of the value. He/she should consider living in it as their primary home long enough to get the $250,000 exclusion on the gain. If they plan on keeping it until death and passing it on to the kids, then they will get a full step up in basis.

01-26-2024, 03:53 PM	#9
phoenix Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: phoenix and moultonboro Posts: 1,561 Thanks: 63 Thanked 276 Times in 194 Posts	that's what my tax acct said also full step up and that's what i did on the estate tax return i filed. __________________ it's tough to make predictions specially about the future

The Following User Says Thank You to Major For This Useful Post:
The Real BigGuy (12-13-2023)

12-12-2023, 08:10 PM	#4
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,521 Thanks: 3 Thanked 622 Times in 513 Posts	All Polyclad employees knew the executive staff. Richard wanted it that way. I think he may have gotten it from Mike. When Mike owned the company, and for the five year tenure that he led under Cookson, he would walk the Franklin plant about once a week and talk to everyone. Joe would hardly ever be seen. He would join the crews during holiday parties. Even after taking the presidency, Joe was mostly seen during holiday parties; but by that time we had moved from the three small plants to international, so nobody really expected to see him as much as they had Mike; though most of the old timers would bring it up every so often. Ostrow, I would see all the time... but that was mostly the interaction between engineering and quality control. Varnell only occasionally as I had to review the quality of some new processing changes that would come about under his tenure. He would usually come to me with Steve. Not really sure who Dick M. is... We had several Richard's that worked for us over the years... and I doubt it could be Dick McDonald. I don't remember him being with the company in 2002.

12-13-2023, 01:14 PM	#6
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,521 Thanks: 3 Thanked 622 Times in 513 Posts	Forgot about Mahoney. Mike was a character.

01-27-2024, 09:17 AM	#10
longislander Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 550 Thanks: 49 Thanked 101 Times in 76 Posts	Discuss "homestead property" and is the deed "joint ownership with rights of survivorship" with an attorney. NH is not a community property state. Also confirm with an attorney.

01-28-2024, 08:19 AM	#12
longislander Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 550 Thanks: 49 Thanked 101 Times in 76 Posts	And ask about possible confusion with an "equitable distribution" state, which NH is. Further clarification with the attorney that "equitable distribution" is not the same as "equal distribution".