Best Town to live in ?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

From John Mercier:
"So the budget process has to start with constitutionally required costs... and raise funding for at least those...
That means at a bear (sic) minimum the Legislature must find $500M in revenue in other sources, I get lot of landowners to say ''I love being a donor community''.

Your basic language is wrong. The Legislature does not need to raise $500MM, they only need to allocate $500MM, if, in fact, that is the real number. ("M" is for thousand. If you want million, use "MM".) The budget year is after the even year election, i.e. 2025. 2024 is not a budget year. In most election years, about one third of the legislature turns over. Whatever spending bills are proposed for 2024 action, will be voted to be held over (and then re-filed) for a budget year.

Again, I apologize to the OP for following posts that go off course. Back to best town.

I pretty much grew up in Gilford and Laconia although technically not a full time resident(college, Navy). I always felt that if I were in Meredith or Alton, I had to go to Laconia/Gilford for services, or, in the case of Meredith, I had to find alternate routes in the summer. I still like Gilford.

Thank you for the correction on the abbreviation of MM instead of M.
The SWEPT is currently unconstitutional... barring any changes... the State cannot collect it come June - doesn't matter if it is a budget year.

The Legislature this year would need to change to collect and redistribute with donor community, or repeal/replace.

There is not $500MM (my estimate based on the current collection of the SWEPT and using a less efficient taxing mechanism) for the Legislature to cut from the expenditure of the unrestricted funds - the budget already having been past.

When it does the next budget... it may tweak the expenditure to recover the nearly $1 Billion for the two year cycle that budget will represent.

It may ask the stay of the courts... but they are going to expect some action on the situation rather than just pushing it off and continuing an unconstitutional situation.

[samosetguy]

I'm not sure why you didn't mention Gilford as an option. We're in Gilford. I think Gilford is the best option for lots of reasons (e.g. stores, restaurants, lake access, Glendale, beaches (Ellacoya, town beach), BofNH Pavilian, etc.). However, it really depends on how much money you want to spend and what's available to purchase. if you can find something on the water that fits your budget but it's in another town, I wouldn't let the town drive your decision. If it's off season, the driving between towns shouldn't be too difficult. If it's in-season, you're not going to be able to get anywhere regardless of where you are.

[SAB1]

This is really a personal decision and based on what you want from your living arrangement. Moultonboro, tuftonboro, wolfeboro are totally different lake living styles from meredith, Gilford side of lake. Nothing is at your finger tips on the tuftonboro side. It quieter, more rustic old lake charm though it is slowing eroding toward the other side.

[bigdog]

FYI to all.....I'm moving to 'down-size', house is way too big for us.

I love Gilford, however, not sure I can find a smaller house in town, inventory is always low.

Yeah, taxes are high, but I guess I get more than other towns can offer for amenities. Still would like to explore other options...

Someone said here 'the grass is not always greener on the other side',
maybe I should heed that advice......

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by bigdog

FYI to all.....I'm moving to 'down-size', house is way too big for us.

I love Gilford, however, not sure I can find a smaller house in town, inventory is always low.

Yeah, taxes are high, but I guess I get more than other towns can offer for amenities. Still would like to explore other options...

Someone said here 'the grass is not always greener on the other side',
maybe I should heed that advice......

I think you're going through what every boomer is going through right now, wanting to downsize, but realizing that there really isn't anything out there to downsize to that's affordable. That's why I think the market is going to stay strong as many people are deciding that staying put is the best option right now, esp if you have a sub 3% mortgage or no mortgage. That will keep inventory low for quite some time. Builders aren't going to help because there's not enough profit in building smaller homes.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I think you're going through what every boomer is going through right now, wanting to downsize, but realizing that there really isn't anything out there to downsize to that's affordable. That's why I think the market is going to stay strong as many people are deciding that staying put is the best option right now, esp if you have a sub 3% mortgage or no mortgage. That will keep inventory low for quite some time. Builders aren't going to help because there's not enough profit in building smaller homes.

Another factor many overlook is security. Unless an affordable community is deeded over 55 It will eventually become low income or section 8. Retirees need the security of a gated community. Very few in this area

[Descant]

I think Section 8 is misunderstood. I have had tenants who received section 8 assistance (1 & 2 family buildings in a neighborhood, not an apartment complex). Nobody would ever know they were part of the program. NH Housing can also provide assistance with buying a house.
Concentrating one demographic to the exclusion of others, whether section 8 or McMansions doesn't appear to me to enhance the overall community, but that's what we have with many NH zoning codes.

BTW, Laconia and Wolfeboro are not on BigDog's approved list, but both have very nice retirement communities (Taylor) with single family homes and many services aimed at retirees.

[upthesaukee]

My wife and I moved into Alton Bay about the 1st of May in 1996. We moved into my mom's house, which she and Dad bought in 1977. It is about a half mile off the lake, just outside of the Sandy Point area on the west side of the bay.

Love the area. Restaurants include Shibley's at the Pier (somewhat seasonal), Pop's (seasonal). Shibley's Drive in (seasonal), Bay diner, Foster's, Dockside, and Ackerly's. Short trip to Johnson's in New Durham, several spots in Wolfeboro, a few in Barnstead, and several in the Gilford / Laconia area.

Overall tax rate is good. Population is right at 6,000.

Quaint area in the bay and small business up town. Catholic Church and a small church.

For me, age mid to late 70's, it's a great place to live.

Dave

[Major]

Merrimac must have a different demographic than Laconia. I've had experience with Section 8 housing and it's clientele since 1979. For every "nice" family, there are many, many more "not so nice" families. One thing they have in common is that they are allergic to working. Very few, if any, have full time jobs. Almost without exception, when a tenant moves out, the entire unit needs to be remodeled, sometimes down to the studs. Several years ago, one of my sons assisted my dad in cleaning out an unoccupied unit. He could not believe what he saw.

John correctly stated that it is difficult to invest in business at a municipal level, it takes partnership with the state. However, at a local level, we can limit the amount of low income housing. (I guess even that is subject to Federal law as I think of it.) Instead of providing incentives to create low income housing, maybe there is a way to provide those incentives (e.g., tax relief) to investors to rehab single family homes. However, given the makeup of the planning board, and its thirst for tax dollars, I hardly think they would consider making such a long term investment.

One thing we do not need are rehab centers. The City could prohibit those tomorrow if it had the motivation to do so. Also, although probably initiated with the best intent, we don't need facilities like the one on New Salem Street, which has become an attractive nuisance. I've heard there is a facility in Manchester that shuttles homeless people to that facility for help. Great!

[garysanfran]

One consideration about Sec. 8, is that you will have tenants (I call them residents), who are home most of the time and thus create more wear-and-tear.

I've worked with dozens of management companies and public housing agencies, San Francisco and Oakland Housing Authorities, etc.

I've stepped around a murder site at Acorn Housing, Oakland, after a security guard was shot one hour earlier.

I had many Sect. 8 landlord clients. The stories I heard were amazing. Made the movie "Pacific Heights" seem tame. I was interviewed extensively for a HUD publication entitled "Public Housing: Creating Drug Free Neighborhoods".

I believe in any environment, it takes one demented person to ruin a day. In those environs, the percentages increase logarithmically.

The Sect. 8 that worked best, were small landlords with units in good neighborhoods who did thorough background checks.

[Woody38]

We had a 5,000s/f house once. My office was on the first floor. After retirement that house was just too large for us and two dogs. Next, bought a 55+ condo which did not work out well. Next was a ~11-1200s/f house. That was way too small for us. Therefore, the current house is 3385 s/f and a lot for the family.
The California house is 2100 s/f+. About right. The important thing is the layout of the house.

____________________________________

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

[Mr. V]

Wife and I both were raised in multi-story homes and decided to buy a one story home with retirement in mind.

What a great decision.

Now there's no worries about falling down the stairs, or being unable to navigate them.

[Descant]

Thanks, Major and Gary. Obviously, my experience is at the other end of the spectrum. And, yes, small landlord and thorough background checks, although there were a few learning steps in the 80's.

[John Mercier]

Laconia single family homes generally get rehabbed whenever they change owners. But even some long time owners have been in to see me to get projects started.

Not sure that low income housing has really as much of a stigma to it that it once had. Representative Littlefield instead of spending 100s of hours in Concord for $100 annually could have spent that time at a second job and made significantly more; but would have lost his low income housing. So it seems to be much more acceptable across the political spectrum.

As for the builders not willing to construct smaller homes because the money isn't there... they are building garages, decks, and screen porches... which cost far less than a small home.
They just build whatever their customer requests.

Taylor Community isn't inexpensive. So what you save in taxes in Gilford may quickly be eaten up in other costs.
And most 55 and older communities will become low income... incomes for most tend to fall after retirement; hence why costs become a concern. If they weren't a concern, they would live at Taylor Community.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Laconia single family homes generally get rehabbed whenever they change owners. But even some long time owners have been in to see me to get projects started.

Not sure that low income housing has really as much of a stigma to it that it once had. Representative Littlefield instead of spending 100s of hours in Concord for $100 annually could have spent that time at a second job and made significantly more; but would have lost his low income housing. So it seems to be much more acceptable across the political spectrum.

As for the builders not willing to construct smaller homes because the money isn't there... they are building garages, decks, and screen porches... which cost far less than a small home.
They just build whatever their customer requests.

Taylor Community isn't inexpensive. So what you save in taxes in Gilford may quickly be eaten up in other costs.
And most 55 and older communities will become low income... incomes for most tend to fall after retirement; hence why costs become a concern. If they weren't a concern, they would live at Taylor Community.

I should have said, builders aren't building small spec homes. Sure, they will build a small custom home for a customer but in many cases that downsized home is going to cost much more than the larger, older home they just sold unless you're lucky enough to already own a plot of land. And those projects are small potatoes, they aren't going to make a dent in the lack of inventory.

[John Mercier]

A spec home is built on the speculation that you may sell it in the future. Since we currently know that any home built will sell... there are some building such.

The builder will also build a basic home... even the ones that I have posted online. But when the builder is building to a customer's wishes, it is the customer choosing the higher end custom options that make the home more expensive.

The home is just the summation of the parts and the skill it takes to put them together. Some of my customers want quality, but basic components. Other demand from me high end solutions that they have seen on the internet.

For instance, I can supply a white vinyl window with a lifetime warranty at any level of efficiency within the spectrum... but many customer choose the wood windows that will not have a lifetime warranty, and may not have the same efficiency, or a variation of the vinyl that increases the cost of the windows.

The wood windows in a new home could be standard sizing, while replacing them in an older home may require higher cost custom sizing.

What we see with new homes is splurging in unusual ways. The builder doesn't really care... unless of course the new units require some unusual means to secure them. In the older homes, landscaping has to be factored in.

The same goes for doors. A six panel fiberglass lifetime will cost less than a glassed unit or one designed to have a wood-look and fall into a trendy category.

[Biggd]

Most boomers like me, that want to downsize, don't want to spend more on a smaller home than the larger one they are selling. So, it really doesn't pay to downsize in today's market unless you are moving to another state where prices are cheaper. If you are younger and in your peak earning years, then trading up to a more expensive home is not an issue.
The OP wants to downsize from home in Gilford to a smaller home in another town in the lakes region to save money. Unless he's selling a waterfront to buy off the water I don't think he's going to save much money and he's already living in one of the better towns around the lake.
I will make this my last post because this thread has gone way off track.

[John Mercier]

It isn't off track.

The market is tight. There really is not much to buy in any price range.
And stick built or manufactured might be the only options for a fair amount of time to come.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Major

Merrimac must have a different demographic than Laconia. I've had experience with Section 8 housing and it's clientele since 1979. For every "nice" family, there are many, many more "not so nice" families. One thing they have in common is that they are allergic to working. Very few, if any, have full time jobs. Almost without exception, when a tenant moves out, the entire unit needs to be remodeled, sometimes down to the studs. Several years ago, one of my sons assisted my dad in cleaning out an unoccupied unit. He could not believe what he saw.
!

I could not agree more. I have had rental property since 1978 and during those years have probably had about 30 section 8 tenants. 2 or 3 may have needed help, and I was glad to see them get it. The rest were in for the free ride, most worked cash jobs so their income did not show, and some even dealt drugs. I reported some tenants to the administrators of the program but they did nothing. More people on welfare is job security for them.

Without fail, none of them had any respect for the property. Annual section 8 inspections required that anything the tenant broke had to be fixed for the apartment to remain qualified, of course repairs were at the landlords expense. One tenant lost her keys so she walked around the house, poked two holes in every screen to access the latch and remove the screen, to see if the windows were unlocked. None were.

The courts are no help. Laconia District Court under a previous head judge was the worst. I have about 20 judgments against former tenants for as much as $8,000. No money will ever be collected.

I turned the last 8 unit building into condos and sold it off. The shortage of low income rental housing is directly related to the laws that favor tenants but in the long run hurt them even more. The politicians will never get it.

[Major]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The courts are no help. Laconia District Court under a previous head judge was the worst. I have about 20 judgments against former tenants for as much as $8,000. No money will ever be collected.

Judge Carroll is a very nice man. Unfortunately, I can see that he would be of little or no help in dealing with deadbeats. If you ever wanted a snapshot of today's society/culture, spend a morning in the Laconia District Court, and watch the parade of losers, one after another, who cannot live within societal norms. Almost no one works. No one has money for judgments or fines. And the judge, whether it was Judge Carroll or whoever replaced him, are excessively sympathetic to their plight, even the criminals. And that's the problem. Rather than hammering these folks with tough love, we coddle and sympathize. However, heaven forbid you are a productive member of society, there is no such mercy or grace. The full extent of the law will be employed.

[ApS]

A work-free drug-place...

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Major

Judge Carroll is a very nice man. Unfortunately, I can see that he would be of little or no help in dealing with deadbeats. If you ever wanted a snapshot of today's society/culture, spend a morning in the Laconia District Court, and watch the parade of losers, one after another, who cannot live within societal norms. Almost no one works. No one has money for judgments or fines. And the judge, whether it was Judge Carroll or whoever replaced him, are excessively sympathetic to their plight, even the criminals. And that's the problem. Rather than hammering these folks with tough love, we coddle and sympathize. However, heaven forbid you are a productive member of society, there is no such mercy or grace. The full extent of the law will be employed.

You hit the nail on the head. I could not have said it better.

I have spent many mornings in that court and watched the lazy deadbeats get coddled. They get a kiss on the cheek and a pat on the bum and get told to try harder. The judges know most of the defendants by first name but it doesn't change things. There are many "frequent flyers" in Laconia District Court.

Maybe if they revoked driver's licenses for unpaid court judgments it would have some impact. Maybe if they told the defendants you have three months to start making payments on this judgment or you will spend some time in jail it would make a difference. Five days in jail and another 60 days to pay. No action? 30 days in jail and another 60 days to pay. At some point it would make a difference.

Laconia has a good police department but in my opinion, a lot of Laconia's problems stem from a weak court system.

[garysanfran]

If there is no barrier to stop bad behavior, bad behavior will not be stopped.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

You hit the nail on the head. I could not have said it better.

I have spent many mornings in that court and watched the lazy deadbeats get coddled. They get a kiss on the cheek and a pat on the bum and get told to try harder. The judges know most of the defendants by first name but it doesn't change things. There are many "frequent flyers" in Laconia District Court.

Maybe if they revoked driver's licenses for unpaid court judgments it would have some impact. Maybe if they told the defendants you have three months to start making payments on this judgment or you will spend some time in jail it would make a difference. Five days in jail and another 60 days to pay. No action? 30 days in jail and another 60 days to pay. At some point it would make a difference.

Laconia has a good police department but in my opinion, a lot of Laconia's problems stem from a weak court system.

I'll agree that the laws frequently seem to favor the tenants, and judges don't want to force people out into the street. However, fines and jail just make it more difficult to get a job and make any payments. People who lose their driver's license just drive anyway. If you can get an MVR as part of the application, it frequently lists "Driving after Suspension. When you ask, "I got stopped for ignoring a light or stop sign."

My experience was with the Manchester Housing office and courts in Merrimack and Milford, mostly for evictions where I had no problems. In one instance, I even collected back rent in monthly payments. Usually, you just have to figure that as lost money.

[John Mercier]

I don't know that Section 8 is tightening the housing supply.
Laconia has about the same number of residents as 1980, and what at least appears to me without a count to be a pretty broad expansion of housing units since that time.

It is true the city has a homeless problem.
And it cannot be simply stated an issue with drugs - both illegal and legal.
It also, as in many other areas, has too many that put wants before needs.
But from a purely cost vs surrounding services... there are areas in the city easy enough to reach the bypass and shopping in Gilford, or Gunstock if that is your destination.

Just not currently that many smaller homes for sale within the Laconia borders either.

[garysanfran]

When you screen an applicant , on any kind of housing, you are looking for the ability to pay and any behavior problems.

A tenant paying on time, but is a behavior problem, is not good.

A tenant with great behavior, not paying, is not good

Credit reports will give you some aspect of finances, outstanding debt obligations, etc., But not behavior. And not evictions!

Reviewing credit reports on Sect. 8, one should look for financial obligations beyond affordability.. Like a new car purchase for $100k+,etc. Which would show income of "unreported source".

A landlord may give you a false behavior reference to get rid of their problem.

I would ask false questions in doing landlord references like ...
The applicant said they paid $600. I would ask if they could reference the applicant paid $700, and if the landlord gave a positive, I assumed we were talking to a relative.

Eviction records are public record. I owned a company that recorded every eviction record as they were filed. In San Francisco alone, 12,000/year.

So, if an applicant gave a phony landlord reference, we knew they were being evicted, from where and by whom.

Ask your screening company from where they get their data.

Trust not your applicants.

As a result of the above, I have been a very successful landlord.

A desirable neighborhood. A fair rent. Good screening and great relations and support. Is the success key.

[John Mercier]

Doesn't happen just with rentals or Section 8.
I live on a road that had four properties with a fifth just across from one end.

The one right next to me had a contractor that purchased it.
First I would see him in M-F to make purchases... then it started to happen on Saturday - he was getting behind.

One night shots rang out. Seems the contractor had picked up a habit of going out drinking with the crew - wasn't paying attention to business and his wife was threatening to leave. During a round out with the crew, he got talked into the belief that she just need a ''stern'' show of his resolve. He hit her, she shot him. Home sat empty after the mortgage company foreclosed.

The one two doors down was rented. The renter was an independent trucker that started bringing home the truck. One Sunday afternoon... his kid tried to jump the snowbanks on each side of my driveway... hit the mailbox, destroyed the sled and hurt himself. F&G handled the situation. The renter decided to try to make me pay for what he saw as a slight of contacting F&G. Kept setting off the air horns as he came by. The neighbor across the street had enough and contacted the local PD. They met him on his way home. He brought the truck home because he had lost his license for a DWI and was sneaking out in the early morning hoping not to get caught. He came home to the PD that night inebriated.

Neither of these two started out bad people, they just got themselves hooked into a lifestyle that had bad results, and failed to change course.

And over my entire life... I have noticed that Laconia - and by that I mean the people that reside and vote there along with outside influencers - tends to promote bad lifestyle choices.

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Thank you for the correction on the abbreviation of MM instead of M.

The SWEPT is currently unconstitutional... barring any changes... the State cannot collect it come June - doesn't matter if it is a budget year.

The Legislature this year would need to change to collect and redistribute with donor community, or repeal/replace.

There is not $500MM (my estimate based on the current collection of the SWEPT and using a less efficient taxing mechanism) for the Legislature to cut from the expenditure of the unrestricted funds - the budget already having been past.

When it does the next budget... it may tweak the expenditure to recover the nearly $1 Billion for the two year cycle that budget will represent.

It may ask the stay of the courts... but they are going to expect some action on the situation rather than just pushing it off and continuing an unconstitutional situation.

In Roman numerals M is 1000. In common parlance, K is a thousand (kilo) and M is a million. I vote for the latter use. The former use just looks weird. Who’s with me? lol


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