How safe is downtown Laconia?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

And you don't even have to use a weapon - ask Chauvin and Penny. It's no wonder why no one wants to be a cop! Like we saw in Gilford, cops just doing their job had to be investigated and then exonerated much to the chagrin of a vocal minority.

I can't remember Penny, but your Derek Chauvin reference is gross misinformation. He was convicted of murder and sent away for 20+ years. He is a disgrace to the police, and he made the lives of decent hard-working officers all over the country much more difficult.

[Major]

So much to unpack.

Regarding Chauvin, watch the Fall of Minneapolis and watch the ENTIRE George Floyd video. Floyd was out of control and used the same (almost identical) tactics to get out of the situation that he used in 2018. Chauvin did his job by the book. His investigation and trial were a disgrace, but that shouldn't surprise us.

Regarding the Gilford situation, the policemen were placed on extended leave and were severely criticized in local and regional newspapers. Almost immediately, their motives and competency were placed into question. I am sure they went through hell, and the press and public opinion didn't help. They were not given the benefit of the doubt. At the end, they were just doing their job, and unfortunately, had to defend themselves and others on the scene.

And finally, regarding the homeless situation, I do not view throwing money and sympathy at the problem as compassion. I believe having a zero tolerance approach to the issue as the only way to solve it. That is the compassionate approach. We have spent more money than can be counted trying to solve this and other social issues, and things have become progressively worse.

Someone stated that it's always been this way, just that there is more coverage now. I respectfully disagree. Back in the day, there would be characters around Laconia. I remember Radar riding his tricycle to the Weirs, spinning stories of the CIA being after him. Notwithstanding, the level of degradation to where we are now is alarming. Ask a teacher what it is like in schools. In Meredith, a student identifying as a cat asked for a litter box. I was on the plane the other day, and a grown man had to have a plush toy to cope with flying. We are raising a generation of kids who unfortunately will be unable to cope with being an adult and doing adult things.

It's way worse now. The evidence is all around us. The only way we get back to where we were is adopting a conservative, traditionally American value system, where self-reliance, the value hard work and a having a strong family are taught. We've had 50+ years of liberal experimentation and all it's brought us is weakened family units, a lack of faith and a reliance of government to solve the problems it creates.

Just my 2 cents.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Major

So much to unpack.

Regarding Chauvin, watch the Fall of Minneapolis and watch the ENTIRE George Floyd video. Floyd was out of control and used the same (almost identical) tactics to get out of the situation that he used in 2018. Chauvin did his job by the book. His investigation and trial were a disgrace, but that shouldn't surprise us.

Regarding the Gilford situation, the policemen were placed on extended leave and were severely criticized in local and regional newspapers. Almost immediately, their motives and competency were placed into question. I am sure they went through hell, and the press and public opinion didn't help. They were not given the benefit of the doubt. At the end, they were just doing their job, and unfortunately, had to defend themselves and others on the scene.

And finally, regarding the homeless situation, I do not view throwing money and sympathy at the problem as compassion. I believe having a zero tolerance approach to the issue as the only way to solve it. That is the compassionate approach. We have spent more money than can be counted trying to solve this and other social issues, and things have become progressively worse.

Someone stated that it's always been this way, just that there is more coverage now. I respectfully disagree. Back in the day, there would be characters around Laconia. I remember Radar riding his tricycle to the Weirs, spinning stories of the CIA being after him. Notwithstanding, the level of degradation to where we are now is alarming. Ask a teacher what it is like in schools. In Meredith, a student identifying as a cat asked for a litter box. I was on the plane the other day, and a grown man had to have a plush toy to cope with flying. We are raising a generation of kids who unfortunately will be unable to cope with being an adult and doing adult things.

It's way worse now. The evidence is all around us. The only way we get back to where we were is adopting a conservative, traditionally American value system, where self-reliance, the value hard work and a having a strong family are taught. We've had 50+ years of liberal experimentation and all it's brought us is weakened family units, a lack of faith and a reliance of government to solve the problems it creates.

Just my 2 cents.

Well said


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Major

So much to unpack.

Regarding Chauvin, watch the Fall of Minneapolis and watch the ENTIRE George Floyd video. Floyd was out of control and used the same (almost identical) tactics to get out of the situation that he used in 2018. Chauvin did his job by the book. His investigation and trial were a disgrace, but that shouldn't surprise us.

Regarding the Gilford situation, the policemen were placed on extended leave and were severely criticized in local and regional newspapers. Almost immediately, their motives and competency were placed into question. I am sure they went through hell, and the press and public opinion didn't help. They were not given the benefit of the doubt. At the end, they were just doing their job, and unfortunately, had to defend themselves and others on the scene.

And finally, regarding the homeless situation, I do not view throwing money and sympathy at the problem as compassion. I believe having a zero tolerance approach to the issue as the only way to solve it. That is the compassionate approach. We have spent more money than can be counted trying to solve this and other social issues, and things have become progressively worse.

Someone stated that it's always been this way, just that there is more coverage now. I respectfully disagree. Back in the day, there would be characters around Laconia. I remember Radar riding his tricycle to the Weirs, spinning stories of the CIA being after him. Notwithstanding, the level of degradation to where we are now is alarming. Ask a teacher what it is like in schools. In Meredith, a student identifying as a cat asked for a litter box. I was on the plane the other day, and a grown man had to have a plush toy to cope with flying. We are raising a generation of kids who unfortunately will be unable to cope with being an adult and doing adult things.

It's way worse now. The evidence is all around us. The only way we get back to where we were is adopting a conservative, traditionally American value system, where self-reliance, the value hard work and a having a strong family are taught. We've had 50+ years of liberal experimentation and all it's brought us is weakened family units, a lack of faith and a reliance of government to solve the problems it creates.

Just my 2 cents.

Not going to happen.
As I stated ex-Representative Littlefield lives in subsidized housing. He is seeking re-election and refuses to use the time he would spend in Concord on increasing his annual income at productive employment because he would lose his subsidized housing.

Its endemic in both parties.

I remember my grandfather shopping at Grossman's. A younger sales clerk saw him looking at something and wondered if he was trying to find the price. He explained, if he needed it... it didn't matter what it cost, he needed it; and if he didn't need it... it didn't matter what it cost, he didn't need it.

Since I only need shelter, water, and food as basics and year-round transportation as a means to stay productively employed... it isn't a life that most could live.

But the problem will expand... and moving them elsewhere would only result in them looking for a remote seldom used location were the basics of shelter, water, and food can be acquired.

In the area, those would be along the rail line and snowmobile trails.
The WOW trail being put in just exposed what had been happening in that area since we were kids in Laconia. Same goes for Hounsell in what used to be the Laconia Pits.

Movement up the WOW trail would put them someplace between the Lakeport intersection and SD/LB or maybe beyond SD/LB but before the Weirs Bridge.
Movement on Hounsell would put them someplace in Gilford? But could easily cause them to move to the State School property before that becomes built out, and then they would move up the trail toward the Meredith border.

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Not going to happen.
As I stated ex-Representative Littlefield lives in subsidized housing. He is seeking re-election and refuses to use the time he would spend in Concord on increasing his annual income at productive employment because he would lose his subsidized housing.

Its endemic in both parties.

I remember my grandfather shopping at Grossman's. A younger sales clerk saw him looking at something and wondered if he was trying to find the price. He explained, if he needed it... it didn't matter what it cost, he needed it; and if he didn't need it... it didn't matter what it cost, he didn't need it.

Since I only need shelter, water, and food as basics and year-round transportation as a means to stay productively employed... it isn't a life that most could live.

But the problem will expand... and moving them elsewhere would only result in them looking for a remote seldom used location were the basics of shelter, water, and food can be acquired.

In the area, those would be along the rail line and snowmobile trails.
The WOW trail being put in just exposed what had been happening in that area since we were kids in Laconia. Same goes for Hounsell in what used to be the Laconia Pits.

Movement up the WOW trail would put them someplace between the Lakeport intersection and SD/LB or maybe beyond SD/LB but before the Weirs Bridge.
Movement on Hounsell would put them someplace in Gilford? But could easily cause them to move to the State School property before that becomes built out, and then they would move up the trail toward the Meredith border.

John, everyone could live the life you describe with just the essentials. Most people just choose not to.


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

John, everyone could live the life you describe with just the essentials. Most people just choose not to.


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But that is a traditional conservative lifestyle... and most people choosing not to was my point.

But it creates odd situations.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by Major

So much to unpack.

Regarding Chauvin, watch the Fall of Minneapolis and watch the ENTIRE George Floyd video. Floyd was out of control and used the same (almost identical) tactics to get out of the situation that he used in 2018. Chauvin did his job by the book. His investigation and trial were a disgrace, but that shouldn't surprise us.

Regarding the Gilford situation, the policemen were placed on extended leave and were severely criticized in local and regional newspapers. Almost immediately, their motives and competency were placed into question. I am sure they went through hell, and the press and public opinion didn't help. They were not given the benefit of the doubt. At the end, they were just doing their job, and unfortunately, had to defend themselves and others on the scene.

And finally, regarding the homeless situation, I do not view throwing money and sympathy at the problem as compassion. I believe having a zero tolerance approach to the issue as the only way to solve it. That is the compassionate approach. We have spent more money than can be counted trying to solve this and other social issues, and things have become progressively worse.

Someone stated that it's always been this way, just that there is more coverage now. I respectfully disagree. Back in the day, there would be characters around Laconia. I remember Radar riding his tricycle to the Weirs, spinning stories of the CIA being after him. Notwithstanding, the level of degradation to where we are now is alarming. Ask a teacher what it is like in schools. In Meredith, a student identifying as a cat asked for a litter box. I was on the plane the other day, and a grown man had to have a plush toy to cope with flying. We are raising a generation of kids who unfortunately will be unable to cope with being an adult and doing adult things.

It's way worse now. The evidence is all around us. The only way we get back to where we were is adopting a conservative, traditionally American value system, where self-reliance, the value hard work and a having a strong family are taught. We've had 50+ years of liberal experimentation and all it's brought us is weakened family units, a lack of faith and a reliance of government to solve the problems it creates.

Just my 2 cents.

Chauvin had no chance. After the riots the judge and jury feared repercussions if they found him innocent. A later autopsy proved he did not die of asphyxiation ....Even the Minneapolis police chief threw him to the wolves when he testified that the knee maneuver was not part of police training when, in fact, it was. True that Chauvin was a tough cop but he was tough on white people as well. Absolutely nothing racial as the press played it up. So now a dedicated police officer is in prison fearing for his life every day for just doing his job.

[Major]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Chauvin had no chance. After the riots the judge and jury feared repercussions if they found him innocent. A later autopsy proved he did not die of asphyxiation ....Even the Minneapolis police chief threw him to the wolves when he testified that the knee maneuver was not part of police training when, in fact, it was. True that Chauvin was a tough cop but he was tough on white people as well. Absolutely nothing racial as the press played it up. So now a dedicated police officer is in prison fearing for his life every day for just doing his job.

Thank you for your sober assessment, Sam. Unfortunately, the biased media went with the obvious narrative, facts be damned. It's too bad. Everyone abandoned him, his superiors, his colleagues and even his wife.

[Biggd]

This train has really jumped off the rails!

[John Mercier]

Its definitely not connected to downtown Laconia... or any place in NH for that fact.

Recruits here are just seeing better options from a purely economic standpoint.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

This train has really jumped off the rails!

I completely disagree. This discussion has everything to do with safety in Laconia and our community in general.

I love Laconia. Although not born here, I was raised here. I have family and lifelong friends who live in the Laconia and the surrounding communities. Almost all them own small businesses and are heavily invested in the community.

Issues like police efficacy and crime (including homelessness) are extremely important when considering a place to live. It is unfortunately that some want to obfuscate the issues with misinformation, but it sometimes happens and has to be addressed.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

I completely disagree. This discussion has everything to do with safety in Laconia and our community in general.

I love Laconia. Although not born here, I was raised here. I have family and lifelong friends who live in the Laconia and the surrounding communities. Almost all them own small businesses and are heavily invested in the community.

Issues like police efficacy and crime (including homelessness) are extremely important when considering a place to live. It is unfortunately that some want to obfuscate the issues with misinformation, but it sometimes happens and has to be addressed.

The "misinformation" label is subjective.
Everything is misinformation if you view something differently.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

The "misinformation" label is subjective.
Everything is misinformation if you view something differently.

Very true. But it seems whatever is published by the mainstream media is considered gospel. Contrary views are misinformation. This isn't always the case.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Major

Very true. But it seems whatever is published by the mainstream media is considered gospel. Contrary views are misinformation. This isn't always the case.

I agree 100%!

Unfortunately, the media (even the so called "mainstream media") slants thier stories to align with thier viewership. It doesn't help that social media algorithms do essentially the same thing. Clickbait media makes BILLIONS! Challenging the 'so called truth" from a media site gets you ostracized & cancelled. The reality is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle once you take the slant out of the news. I miss the days of only 3 major networks, very little slant, and if there was to be a slant it was confined to the op/ed pages, not the main article.

Not a fan of his, but Obie warned about this long ago... 2017ish?

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017...t-to-democracy

Woodsy

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Major

I completely disagree. This discussion has everything to do with safety in Laconia and our community in general.

I love Laconia. Although not born here, I was raised here. I have family and lifelong friends who live in the Laconia and the surrounding communities. Almost all them own small businesses and are heavily invested in the community.

Issues like police efficacy and crime (including homelessness) are extremely important when considering a place to live. It is unfortunately that some want to obfuscate the issues with misinformation, but it sometimes happens and has to be addressed.

He meant discussing a case that is not related to NH in general, and not a reason that Laconia has trouble hiring in all departments.

[fatlazyless]

Hey there forum readers, here's an opportunity to have a free meal at a church in Laconia and maybe actually meet some of the locals. I don't know who goes to this Wednesday 5-pm meal but it comes with a low price ...... free! ....... my type of a price!

Free Full Course Hot Meal

Wednesdays - 5pm

All Are Welcome!

Hands Across The Table

St. Andre Bessette Parish Hall

31 Gilford Ave, Laconia

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Hey there forum readers, here's an opportunity to have a free meal at a church in Laconia and maybe actually meet some of the locals. I don't know who goes to this Wednesday 5-pm meal but it comes with a low price ...... free! ....... my type of a price!

Free Full Course Hot Meal

Wednesdays - 5pm

All Are Welcome!

Hands Across The Table

St. Andre Bessette Parish Hall

31 Gilford Ave, Laconia

Given your real estate and financial assets, would you feel any shame showing up there for a free meal?

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Given your real estate and financial assets, would you feel any shame showing up there for a free meal?

Absolutely not. Same for food banks. Don’t use one myself, but are aware of a few couples that visit the local food banks and have multiple million $$ net worths.


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[Descant]

Meals On Wheels of Hillsboro County has a similar program ($3/meal?) for elders, working with local restaurants. (www.HCMOW.org) They get federal funding for the program, so "it's free"--"the government pays for it" as they say in other states.

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Given your real estate and financial assets, would you feel any shame showing up there for a free meal?

He never said that he was going there. He just put the information out there for anyone who might want it.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

He never said that he was going there. He just put the information out there for anyone who might want it.

I didn't say he was going there either. I just asked if he would feel any shame if he did.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I didn't say he was going there either. I just asked if he would feel any shame if he did.

I see people loading up 70K SUVs at food banks. Some people have no shame.
I'm all for helping anyone on hard times but freeloaders alcoholics and drug addicts get no sympathy from me. They have chosen their way of life. Also very sick of hearing drug addiction called a "disease". Cancer is a disease, you have a choice before you stick a needle in your arm

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

I see people loading up 70K SUVs at food banks. Some people have no shame.

I'm all for helping anyone on hard times but freeloaders alcoholics and drug addicts get no sympathy from me. They have chosen their way of life. Also very sick of hearing drug addiction called a "disease". Cancer is a disease,you have a choice before you stick a needle in your arm

Must be a beautiful view from up there on your high horse.

I pray you never lose a family member or friend to addiction—I've lost students, young teens, who never had a chance. It's heartbreaking to see the effect of drugs, gambling, and alcohol on family and social systems.

And what about all those people who were prescribed opioids for pain management and then were instantly hooked? High-performance athletes who had no idea what they were getting into, roofers who otherwise wouldn't have been able to work, etc.

There's a reason why Purdue and the Sacklers were held liable for their role in the opioid crisis.

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[Major]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Must be a beautiful view from up there on your high horse.

I pray you never lose a family member or friend to addiction—I've lost students, young teens, who never had a chance. It's heartbreaking to see the effect of drugs, gambling, and alcohol on family and social systems.

And what about all those people who were prescribed opioids for pain management and then were instantly hooked? High-performance athletes who had no idea what they were getting into, roofers who otherwise wouldn't have been able to work, etc.

There's a reason why Purdue and the Sacklers were held liable for their role in the opioid crisis.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

You highlight our differences in approach. Rather than blame others, an approach where an individual takes responsibility for his or her situation is better. Self-reliance, accountability and zero tolerance from the rest of us is the path to solving this problem.

For every teen who dies from a one time ingestion (which is tragic), I can name dozens of friends and acquaintances over the years who died of substance abuse, whether from drug use or alcohol abuse. Without exception, each individual had only themselves to blame. They brought heartache and misery to their families. They were smart individuals, but could not make the commitment to stop using.

We have known for a long time that being prescribed opioids to "manage pain" is a bad idea. Personally, when I've had surgeries or procedures and the doctor offered pain medicine, I declined.

And if you really wanted to stop the flow of fentanyl into the U.S., wouldn't you want to immediately close the border? Nearly all illegal drugs coming into the U.S. come through our Southern border. The drug cartels have replaced Purdue, and we don't care. Where are the lawsuits against the cartels? We give them a good leaving alone since influx of drugs is collateral damage to having 10,000,000+ democrat voters.

[DEJ]

You are spot on Major.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Major

You highlight our differences in approach. Rather than blame others, an approach where an individual takes responsibility for his or her situation is better. Self-reliance, accountability and zero tolerance from the rest of us is the path to solving this problem.

For every teen who dies from a one time ingestion (which is tragic), I can name dozens of friends and acquaintances over the years who died of substance abuse, whether from drug use or alcohol abuse. Without exception, each individual had only themselves to blame. They brought heartache and misery to their families. They were smart individuals, but could not make the commitment to stop using.

We have known for a long time that being prescribed opioids to "manage pain" is a bad idea. Personally, when I've had surgeries or procedures and the doctor offered pain medicine, I declined.

And if you really wanted to stop the flow of fentanyl into the U.S., wouldn't you want to immediately close the border? Nearly all illegal drugs coming into the U.S. come through our Southern border. The drug cartels have replaced Purdue, and we don't care. Where are the lawsuits against the cartels? We give them a good leaving alone since influx of drugs is collateral damage to having 10,000,000+ democrat voters.

They could just move them through the northern border. We had a drug problem during the Reagan years also... so it isn't new.

They can't use the housing we have for them because you are not allowed to drink, smoke, or have pets. And for security reasons, they cannot go outside repeatedly when they want to smoke.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Major

And if you really wanted to stop the flow of fentanyl into the U.S., wouldn't you want to immediately close the border? Nearly all illegal drugs coming into the U.S. come through our Southern border. The drug cartels have replaced Purdue, and we don't care. Where are the lawsuits against the cartels? We give them a good leaving alone since influx of drugs is collateral damage to having 10,000,000+ democrat voters.

The bulk of illegal drugs do in fact come from the south through legal points of entry. Increasing border patrol agents and building more fencing will not make a dent in the illegal flow of drugs.

An interesting forum to read.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Major

You highlight our differences in approach. Rather than blame others, an approach where an individual takes responsibility for his or her situation is better. Self-reliance, accountability and zero tolerance from the rest of us is the path to solving this problem. For every teen who dies from a one time ingestion (which is tragic), I can name dozens of friends and acquaintances over the years who died of substance abuse, whether from drug use or alcohol abuse. Without exception, each individual had only themselves to blame. They brought heartache and misery to their families. They were smart individuals, but could not make the commitment to stop using. We have known for a long time that being prescribed opioids to "manage pain" is a bad idea. Personally, when I've had surgeries or procedures and the doctor offered pain medicine, I declined. And if you really wanted to stop the flow of fentanyl into the U.S., wouldn't you want to immediately close the border? Nearly all illegal drugs coming into the U.S. come through our Southern border. The drug cartels have replaced Purdue, and we don't care. Where are the lawsuits against the cartels? We give them a good leaving alone since influx of drugs is collateral damage to having 10,000,000+ democrat voters.

I was grateful for morphine during knee replacement recovery--and was prescribed opioids for kidney stone attacks. Regarding the latter, one had to take it immediately when sensing an attack; otherwise, there was scant relief from humanity's worst pain.

("Relief", such as it was).

Once I misdiagnosed an attack (which didn't develop into an attack). Upon taking the opioid, I laid down on my back and was gradually relieved of pains I didn't realize I'd been living with!


However, I learned then how addictive opioids could be. I learned even further when in my doctor's waiting room, a patient--accompanied by his mother(!)--was creating a furor with his medical staff. My doctor walked out to confront his issue--which almost came to fisticuffs! Although much smaller in stature the doctor--a U.S. Marine Reservist--managed to verbally send the young drug-abuser on his way.



My points: don't submit to any OTC drug, be it nicotine, alcohol, vaping, mushrooms, or Marijuana. Sooner or later, such behavior shows up on paper...

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

I see people loading up 70K SUVs at food banks. Some people have no shame.
I'm all for helping anyone on hard times but freeloaders alcoholics and drug addicts get no sympathy from me. They have chosen their way of life. Also very sick of hearing drug addiction called a "disease". Cancer is a disease, you have a choice before you stick a needle in your arm

I agree but, legal drug companies profited from hooking patients on opioids which left many to find alternative drugs when the prescriptions were turned off.
We like to blame the Mexican Cartels for our drug problems, but they are only feeding the epidemic that our legal drug companies started!

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by Major

Thank you for your sober assessment, Sam. Unfortunately, the biased media went with the obvious narrative, facts be damned. It's too bad. Everyone abandoned him, his superiors, his colleagues and even his wife.

The narrative they pushed was only obvious to them and the Everything is Racist crowd. Normal people saw it for what it was, a drugged up druggie criminal reaping what he had sown.


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I can't remember Penny, but your Derek Chauvin reference is gross misinformation. He was convicted of murder and sent away for 20+ years. He is a disgrace to the police, and he made the lives of decent hard-working officers all over the country much more difficult.

That "information" was seen on every TV.

(...and why my TV has been stored in the attic for 20 years...).



Penny is a former U.S. Marine who's in jail for doing what many of us wish we could have done to protect our citizenry.



End of story...

[Cobaltdeadhead]

There is nothing "by the book" about Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes.

If you believe that those policing tactics are lawful, produce an official manual from any PD that says so.

Note: I am not defending Floyd and his history of criminal behavior.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

There is nothing "by the book" about Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes.

If you believe that those policing tactics are lawful, produce an official manual from any PD that says so.

Note: I am not defending Floyd and his history of criminal behavior.

You really need to watch the documentary. It was by the book. It is how police are taught to restrain an uncooperative (to put it mildly) suspect. His knee was NOT on his neck. The autopsy confirmed no restriction of blood flow caused by the hold contributed to his death. The first autopsy opined that fentanyl most likely caused death. Floyd was a physical mess and most likely would have died from the stress of the situation. Again, watch the documentary.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Major

You really need to watch the documentary. It was by the book. It is how police are taught to restrain an uncooperative (to put it mildly) suspect. His knee was NOT on his neck. The autopsy confirmed no restriction of blood flow caused by the hold contributed to his death. The first autopsy opined that fentanyl most likely caused death. Floyd was a physical mess and most likely would have died from the stress of the situation. Again, watch the documentary.

Then Chauvin had a terrible lawyer and that should be blamed on Chauvin.
Our Jury System isn't perfect... but it is the best the world has to offer.

[Major]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Then Chauvin had a terrible lawyer and that should be blamed on Chauvin.
Our Jury System isn't perfect... but it is the best the world has to offer.

His lawyer could have performed better, but the system was stacked against him. The court did not want to hear the defense. So much of the defense's evidence was not introduced in trial. Plus, even if the jury thought he was innocent, they were being outed and would have had their own homes burned down if they came to a different conclusion. We've seen lots and lots of recent litigations that begged for changes in venue, this one demanded it. Have you seen the documentary?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Major

His lawyer could have performed better, but the system was stacked against him. The court did not want to hear the defense. So much of the defense's evidence was not introduced in trial. Plus, even if the jury thought he was innocent, they were being outed and would have had their own homes burned down if they came to a different conclusion. We've seen lots and lots of recent litigations that begged for changes in venue, this one demanded it. Have you seen the documentary?

No. I don't focus on other areas.

I seldom focus on NH as a whole... but realize that the power of what can be done locally is usually a factor of the Legislature and its decisions.

But that isn't what is effecting the amount of labor that we have in the area.
For Laconia, you'd be better off becoming a Public Works employee... go for a CDL, and then take a position in local private businesses that pay even more than you could make as a LEO.

[Cobaltdeadhead]

Originally Posted by Major

You really need to watch the documentary. It was by the book. It is how police are taught to restrain an uncooperative (to put it mildly) suspect. His knee was NOT on his neck. The autopsy confirmed no restriction of blood flow caused by the hold contributed to his death. The first autopsy opined that fentanyl most likely caused death. Floyd was a physical mess and most likely would have died from the stress of the situation. Again, watch the documentary.

No offense, but do you need glasses? I've watched the video plenty and his knee absolutely was on the back of Floyd's neck.

And even if I agreed with your POV that he wasn't kneeling on his neck, the man could have been cuffed and immobilized moments after the officer was on top of him. Not 9 minutes.

Chauvin screwed up big time and now he's paying the price. We don't need that kind of cop or policing in our society.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

No offense, but do you need glasses? I've watched the video plenty and his knee absolutely was on the back of Floyd's neck.

And even if I agreed with your POV that he wasn't kneeling on his neck, the man could have been cuffed and immobilized moments after the officer was on top of him. Not 9 minutes.

Chauvin screwed up big time and now he's paying the price. We don't need that kind of cop or policing in our society.

You obviously have not seen the entire 25+ minute video or the documentary. Until you see these there is no point arguing with you. (BTW, at the beginning of the video, Floyd was handcuffed and immobilized in the police car, but was acting like a lunatic, so they removed him from the car.)

[Cobaltdeadhead]

Originally Posted by Major

You obviously have not seen the entire 25+ minute video or the documentary. Until you see these there is no point arguing with you. (BTW, at the beginning of the video, Floyd was handcuffed and immobilized in the police car, but was acting like a lunatic, so they removed him from the car.)

I can also say, until you produce me a handbook stating that Chauvin's actions for those 9 minutes was "by the book", it's of little point discussing this with you further. The onus is on you to back up your claim with proof.

That proof is not some documentary that likely has a tremendous amount of bias. Who made it? Project Veritas?

What happened outside of those 9 minutes does not matter. Floyd could have had his wrists and legs cuffed rendering him immobilized once Chauvin was on top of him and controlled. There were 3 other officers that could have applied that restraint while Chauvin had him pinned. Period. End of story.

Chauvin absolutely screwed up and deserves what he got. I have a half dozen relatives in law enforcement and they all say the same.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

I can also say, until you produce me a handbook stating that Chauvin's actions for those 9 minutes was "by the book", it's of little point discussing this with you further. The onus is on you to back up your claim with proof.

As they say, without facts and data you’re just another person with an opinion!


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[Mr. V]

I've sympathy for people who are homeless due to bad breaks, e.g. loss of job, divorce: but I've zero sympathy for those who are homeless due to addiction to hard drugs, e.g. meth and / or fentanyl.

Can we all agree that there is no real benefit, either to them or to society, while they are getting wasted and homeless?

If so...how to effectively address the problem?

The so-called "War on Drugs" didn't do it, and decriminalizing it has been an epic failure here in Portland, Oregon.

Ultimately the government will need to force these people into some form of involuntary treatment and rehab program, and I fear that our liberal interpretation of our "liberty interest" from the Constitution may prevent this.

Perhaps the right test case to the USSC would bear fruit?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I've sympathy for people who are homeless due to bad breaks, e.g. loss of job, divorce: but I've zero sympathy for those who are homeless due to addiction to hard drugs, e.g. meth and / or fentanyl.

Can we all agree that there is no real benefit, either to them or to society, while they are getting wasted and homeless?

If so...how to effectively address the problem?

The so-called "War on Drugs" didn't do it, and decriminalizing it has been an epic failure here in Portland, Oregon.

Ultimately the government will need to force these people into some form of involuntary treatment and rehab program, and I fear that our liberal interpretation of our "liberty interest" from the Constitution may prevent this.

Perhaps the right test case to the USSC would bear fruit?

We have always had that interpretation... it isn't considered liberal.

They don't even need to be addicted to ''hard'' drugs.
Someone that drinks obsessively... and that is a very low level of consumption... spends money toward something that puts their license and livelihood at risk. The number of people that I know that have lost their license astounds me.
The number of people addicted to nicotine... again astounds me.
And if you watch rental adds, no smokers and no pets are the number one restrictions.
Even with pets, I have watched people try to choose the pet over their own well being.

And how many homeowners with a large unexpected repair would be able to foot the bill and not start down the path to ruin?

[Major]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

I can also say, until you produce me a handbook stating that Chauvin's actions for those 9 minutes was "by the book", it's of little point discussing this with you further. The onus is on you to back up your claim with proof.

That proof is not some documentary that likely has a tremendous amount of bias. Who made it? Project Veritas?

What happened outside of those 9 minutes does not matter. Floyd could have had his wrists and legs cuffed rendering him immobilized once Chauvin was on top of him and controlled. There were 3 other officers that could have applied that restraint while Chauvin had him pinned. Period. End of story.

Chauvin absolutely screwed up and deserves what he got. I have a half dozen relatives in law enforcement and they all say the same.

I guess I could turn it around on you. Show me a handbook, rule or regulation that says 9 minutes is excessive. I am not an expert on law enforcement, but I suspect it’s based on a reasonableness standard. In light of Floyd’s behavior prior to being detained by Chauvin, certainly his actions could be considered reasonable.

Most (no all) of the people I know who actually saw the documentary think Chauvin got a raw deal, so I guess we’re even.


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[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

I can also say, until you produce me a handbook stating that Chauvin's actions for those 9 minutes was "by the book", it's of little point discussing this with you further. The onus is on you to back up your claim with proof.

That proof is not some documentary that likely has a tremendous amount of bias. Who made it? Project Veritas?

What happened outside of those 9 minutes does not matter. Floyd could have had his wrists and legs cuffed rendering him immobilized once Chauvin was on top of him and controlled. There were 3 other officers that could have applied that restraint while Chauvin had him pinned. Period. End of story.

Chauvin absolutely screwed up and deserves what he got. I have a half dozen relatives in law enforcement and they all say the same.

Well I guess that’s that. The “Period” AND “End of story” doctrines have both been invoked. Q.E.D.


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

There is nothing "by the book" about Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes. If you believe that those policing tactics are lawful, produce an official manual from any PD that says so. Note: I am not defending Floyd and his history of criminal behavior.

1) [CNN] Adam Bercovici, a retired Los Angeles Police Department lieutenant who works as an expert witness in police use of force cases, agreed that Minneapolis should ban neck restraints.

2) A Medical Examiner said, "If you had brought Floyd's body for my examination without a backstory, I would have advised that Floyd died of advanced atherosclerosis and fentanyl overdose". (One might gasp at the method by which he took that last dose).

'Happy to Google that comment and any other comment one might bring to a forum.



Ever notice that an increasing number of news-sources have "comments are disabled" after recent news stories?