Weirs Drive In Nears the End

[TiltonBB]

The drive in will not open this summer and the property remains listed for sale with a price of $4.9 million.

From the Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...187849595.html

[Biggd]

86, she's paid her dues, she deserves to retire. It's unfortunate that history of the property will probably keep her from completing a sale in her lifetime.

[Trail Goer]

If only we were lucky enough for someone else to buy it with the intent of keeping the drive-in open. This leaves only two drive-ins left in the state, the Milford Drive-in, in Milford and Northfield Drive-in, in Winchester.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Trail Goer

If only we were lucky enough for someone else to buy it with the intent of keeping the drive-in open. This leaves only two drive-ins left in the state, the Milford Drive-in, in Milford and Northfield Drive-in, in Winchester.

They're anachronism.

Why go through the hassle when you can "Netflix and chill?"

[Descant]

One problem for many new owners: The present owner has been there for years and likely has little or no mortgage expense. The new owner at today's real estate values has to generate substantially greater cash flow to make it a going concern.

[Woodsy]

With an asking price of $4.9M and the added risk of archaeological landmines, I don't see this property changing hands any time soon! The last guy backed out at $2.5M!

Woodsy

[John Mercier]

That is always a risk... specifically to timeline.

I think one of the larger issues has been that while the Weirs was heralded with great fanfare to be the jewel on this side of the lake... Meredith went from a sleepy little town to occupy that position.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

With an asking price of $4.9M and the added risk of archaeological landmines, I don't see this property changing hands any time soon! The last guy backed out at $2.5M!

Woodsy

I think the only way a sale will happen is with a purchase agreement that contains contingencies. A good lawyer for the buyer would want to confirm the amount of land that can be built on and have a clause that enables the buyer to cancel if the artifacts or something else, like pollution, prevent or hamper the development. Anyone signing an agreement without some legal protections would be foolish. If the seller is not willing to agree to some stipulations they will probably be sitting on the property for a long time.

[8gv]

Everything will sell for a price.

Price it for the potential risk and it will be gone tomorrow.

If I were the owner my thoughts would be:

How much money does one need to enjoy one's final years?

Running a business is a pain in the butt.

Doing so for decades?

It's time to cut and run.

[Trail Goer]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

They're anachronism.

Why go through the hassle when you can "Netflix and chill?"

With that logic we should just close all movie theaters then. Now personally, I've never been to the Weirs Drive-in, it was on my list and now I regret not making it a bigger priority. I've also never been to the other two in NH, but I have been to the Mendon Twin Drive-in, in Mendon, MA a few times and I can tell you one thing, it was a fun experience. People treated it like a giant tailgate party, before it got dark out and before the movies started, families were making memories, paying games, laughing, kids giggling and screaming could be heard throughout as the place filled up. So yeah, you can watch a movie at home but there's little to compare when making lasting memories with something that is rare and unique like a drive-in.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Trail Goer

With that logic we should just close all movie theaters then. Now personally, I've never been to the Weirs Drive-in, it was on my list and now I regret not making it a bigger priority. I've also never been to the other two in NH, but I have been to the Mendon Twin Drive-in, in Mendon, MA a few times and I can tell you one thing, it was a fun experience. People treated it like a giant tailgate party, before it got dark out and before the movies started, families were making memories, paying games, laughing, kids giggling and screaming could be heard throughout as the place filled up. So yeah, you can watch a movie at home but there's little to compare when making lasting memories with something that is rare and unique like a drive-in.

Honestly, the only fond memories that I have of the drive in was sneaking in with my friends when I was old enough. I don't really remember much, about going with my parents.
Drive Ins were on the way out by the time I was in high school, and I just turned 70.
I don't know how they survive today. Even indoor movie theaters have had to reinvent themselves to stay alive.

[John Mercier]

They were popular at a time when TVs were small. Backyard projectors didn't exist. And some things took forever - if ever - to come out in another public format.

I think the last movie I went to was Robo Cop at the Colonial.

[Trail Goer]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Honestly, the only fond memories that I have of the drive in was sneaking in with my friends when I was old enough. I don't really remember much, about going with my parents.
Drive Ins were on the way out by the time I was in high school, and I just turned 70.
I don't know how they survive today. Even indoor movie theaters have had to reinvent themselves to stay alive.

People still go to movie, even with the crazy prices. I just went and saw the new Ghostbusters movie with my wife, the showing we saw was sold out. The 3 times I've been down at Mendon, there wasn't an empty parking spot that I can remember.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Trail Goer

People still go to movie, even with the crazy prices. I just went and saw the new Ghostbusters movie with my wife, the showing we saw was sold out. The 3 times I've been down at Mendon, there wasn't an empty parking spot that I can remember.

The past few times I've gone with my wife down in Ma, the theaters were empty. I haven't been to a drive in, in years but my daughter took her 3 kids to Weirs drive in last summer. Her words were, "never again". Now that it's closing, I guess that statement will come true.

[upthesaukee]

We used to go to the Starlight Drive-in on Rte 28 in No. Reading MA. Tuesdays were a carload for $1. We would go to Kitty's and get a cheese pizza and then get a large soda at the concession stand. We'd share the pizza and pass the soda around. Rather cheap date but always a good time.

It's a shame that drive-in's have gone away.

Dave

[The Real BigGuy]

When I was at UNH a big Friday was at the Newington Drive In. Load as many guys and as much beer as you could into a car & party!! Have no clue which movies we saw.


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[Descant]

Before I had a driver's license--
we could pay to walk in to the Weirs Drive-In for 25 cents. Or walk through the hole in the fence behind Ho-Jo's. There were benches down front for the walkers, but we used to sit on the ground leaning against the pipe that held the speakers and put a speaker on each side resting on the ground. Stereo before there was stereo.

Anybody remember putting Glass Wax on the windows for added privacy?
Is Glass Wax still sold?

[Cobaltdeadhead]

As someone who is somewhat "new" to the lake having only started regularly spending time in the area about 15 years ago, what is the history of the property / potential artifacts that may make the property difficult to sell and redevelop?

Bummer I didn't get our kids there before closing. Maybe we will make it a priority to get them to the one in Bridgton, ME before it becomes history too.

[TiltonBB]

The 2017 sale fell through after the state archaeologist said there may be Native American remains or artifacts buried there.

The archaeologist, Richard Boisvert, says the land near Weirs Drive-In Theater in Laconia was once a Native American fishing camp. Al Mitchell, the planned buyer in 2017, backed out of the $2.5 million sale due to concerns about added costs if remains or artifacts were discovered during construction. It’s not clear how long that could have delayed development.

It is claimed that the camp had activity dating back as far as 10,000 years. Richard Boisvert carried out an excavation that uncovered archaeological materials adjacent to the drive-in in 1990.

About 15 years ago there was another planned project for an 80 room hotel on the Weirs Channel that fell through for the same reasons.

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by Trail Goer

With that logic we should just close all movie theaters then. Now personally, I've never been to the Weirs Drive-in, it was on my list and now I regret not making it a bigger priority. I've also never been to the other two in NH, but I have been to the Mendon Twin Drive-in, in Mendon, MA a few times and I can tell you one thing, it was a fun experience. People treated it like a giant tailgate party, before it got dark out and before the movies started, families were making memories, paying games, laughing, kids giggling and screaming could be heard throughout as the place filled up. So yeah, you can watch a movie at home but there's little to compare when making lasting memories with something that is rare and unique like a drive-in.

mom used to make a pizza or sandwiches and we would park the pickup in the back row and sit in the back of the truck to watch the movie. There was a playground up by the screen and the atmosphere was just as you describe. Simpler times

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The 2017 sale fell through after the state archaeologist said there may be Native American remains or artifacts buried there.

The archaeologist, Richard Boisvert, says the land near Weirs Drive-In Theater in Laconia was once a Native American fishing camp. Al Mitchell, the planned buyer in 2017, backed out of the $2.5 million sale due to concerns about added costs if remains or artifacts were discovered during construction. It’s not clear how long that could have delayed development.

It is claimed that the camp had activity dating back as far as 10,000 years. Richard Boisvert carried out an excavation that uncovered archaeological materials adjacent to the drive-in in 1990.

About 15 years ago there was another planned project for an 80 room hotel on the Weirs Channel that fell through for the same reasons.

It always seems unfair to me that a state can say, “we believe, but aren’t really sure, that a property has significant historical artifacts on it but, we are not going to do anything to investigate/retrieve these artifacts. However, Mr/Mrs Buyer you will be responsible for the costs of investigating and properly retrieving them and then they will belong to the state not to you.” Sounds totally unfair to me. If I’m paying for the work, shouldn’t I own the proceeds?


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[jbolty]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

It always seems unfair to me that a state can say, “we believe, but aren’t really sure, that a property has significant historical artifacts on it but, we are not going to do anything to investigate/retrieve these artifacts. However, Mr/Mrs Buyer you will be responsible for the costs of investigating and properly retrieving them and then they will belong to the state not to you.” Sounds totally unfair to me. If I’m paying for the work, shouldn’t I own the proceeds?


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Right, the state can buy the land and put up an indian museum if it's so important. Otherwise, but out.

[John Mercier]

Not exactly how it works.

The buyer, should they need an excavation permit or some other change to the area, has to allow for the dig.

But they don't pay for it.

The State (mostly through grants) pays for the dig usually with ''volunteer'' labor from UNH.

[Riviera]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Not exactly how it works.

The buyer, should they need an excavation permit or some other change to the area, has to allow for the dig.

But they don't pay for it.

The State (mostly through grants) pays for the dig usually with ''volunteer'' labor from UNH.

That’s not accurate.

The land under the Weirs Drive In (as well as other adjacent land in the area) is listed on the National Register of Historic places. The Register itself does not have regulatory authority. However, there is a defacto means in which the State Office of Historical Preservation gets control of development properties, and the State can (and will) require the developer to perform preservation and/or mitigating procedures in recognition of any property the is listed on the Register, or even qualifies for the Register.

Any time a property is disturbed in excess of one acre, a federal EPA Stormwater General Permit is required. Generally, this permit is granted by default through the submission of an application. However, that permit application requires the applicant to review and certify that there are no historical properties of significance impacted by the development. If there are, the State is granted authority through the Federal Section 106 Historical Preservation Act, to intervene, and comment on the historical impacts of development. The State has a relatively unmitigated and undefined level of authority to review each case as they deem appropriate. Generally speaking, the EPA stormwater permit won’t be issued until the State has written a statement that the historic issues have been investigated, preserved, or other mitigation has been provided to the State’s satisfaction. There is an appeal process to the National Parks Service, but that is very time consuming, and not likely tp prevail. It is 100% the responsibility and expense of the developer to satisfy the whims of the State Office of Historical Preservation.

Typically, the historical significance is a building, or is something that is visible above the ground. In that instance, it is easier to establish what exists, and how it might be restored, relocated, documented, and/or mitigated. In the case of properties around the Weirs, the level of historic significance can’t be established without digging in the ground. Once you start digging, you have no idea what level of artifacts might be encountered, both in terms of quality and quantity. If the developer is lucky, they might be able to obtain a grant or 3rd party assistance to mitigate with the costs of the investigation/preservation, but that’s difficult to get, because even the 3rd party has no idea the scope of what might be required. UNH doesn’t just step in with an open checkbook, and say “we got your back”.

The unknown time, expense, and complexity of investigation, preservation, or mitigation, makes it nearly impossible to establish a sales agreement contingency that is satisfactory to both the buyer and the seller. Further, not many buyers want to start investigating something with an undefined end point, both in terms of time and money.

It’s a tough situation for the property owner. They would probably be best served by trying to establish the limits of what would be required to get State to sign off, but that in and of itself is a time consuming and expensive endeavor. I concur that it seems unfair, but the property is listed on the National Register, so it is what it is. It’s going to take somebody with a high tolerance for risk to undertake a development of that property.

[John Mercier]

UNH doesn't do the grants.
The grants would be from private entities.

Al was going to have UNH do it...
They have grants to cover digs of this nature.
But they couldn't commit to a limited timeline for the completion.

[TheTimeTraveler]

I would think if the land were priced at a million dollars you'd have a long line of buyers lining up to buy and develop that land.

As things stand now, the existing owner will continue paying taxes on it while it sits unsold until she dies, and she'll never enjoy the financial benefits of it.

Maybe she can somehow work a deal with UNH to go in there and let them do their own excavating while she still owns it (i.e. prior to sale).

[John Mercier]

Now that it isn't going to be operate she could.
It was being operated to cover the costs of things like the property taxes.

According to the people that know the history of the site... it has had quite a bit of fill added over the years... so it could be quite a long time line.

Another buyer might have something in mind that would fit the site without needing to ''disturb'' the site. Whether that is a continuation of the Drive-in or some sort of open air flea market/farmer's market, etc... I don't know.

But for condos or such (Al has a preference for storage units and commercial rentals)... it would require the conditions be met.

I think she will find a buyer, but I don't think it will ever be condos or such.

[Descant]

Considering all the development that has occurred along the shore in the last 250 years without these issues, it seems ironic and unfair that the Weirs Drive-In alone should be subject to such scrutiny. I don't see that the drive in is any more likely to have been an Indian village than the land occupied by the NH Veterans Association.

[WinnisquamZ]

My understanding is the original drive in projection building burned down in the 60s and the owners just dug a large hole and bulldozed everything into it. And other stuff is the rumor. Which makes knowing buyers speculate what could happen


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[8gv]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Now that it isn't going to be operate she could.
It was being operated to cover the costs of things like the property taxes.

According to the people that know the history of the site... it has had quite a bit of fill added over the years... so it could be quite a long time line.

Another buyer might have something in mind that would fit the site without needing to ''disturb'' the site. Whether that is a continuation of the Drive-in or some sort of open air flea market/farmer's market, etc... I don't know.

But for condos or such (Al has a preference for storage units and commercial rentals)... it would require the conditions be met.

I think she will find a buyer, but I don't think it will ever be condos or such.

A farmer's market or flea market will not cash flow an investment of this amount.

Pick your price... $4.9? $2.5? $1.0? and then add in whatever costs to prepare the new venture.

Yay! You are now ready for operating costs!

I think it only works as condos and certainly not at the price she wants now.

I agree with the post above that suggested that she get the dig going now.

Otherwise, sell it for a much lower price.

[LoveLakeLife]

I wonder if the new ugly condo development on the other side of the road on the hill had any Indian artifact problems?


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by 8gv

A farmer's market or flea market will not cash flow an investment of this amount.

Pick your price... $4.9? $2.5? $1.0? and then add in whatever costs to prepare the new venture.

Yay! You are now ready for operating costs!

I think it only works as condos and certainly not at the price she wants now.

I agree with the post above that suggested that she get the dig going now.

Otherwise, sell it for a much lower price.

Her age creates a timeline issue.
The timeline issue on the property is the largest reason for lower value.
With that being an unknown... it is really hard to determine the amount of property tax and what a new venture would expense or generate.

As is... the property value would need to be much lower.
Unlike a perpetual entity, like the State or city, picking up any extraneous unknown costs, questionable properties generally sell for much less than anticipated.

The highest use from a purchase price would be something that does not trigger permitting requirements.

[Riviera]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

I wonder if the new ugly condo development on the other side of the road on the hill had any Indian artifact problems?


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I've seen the map that depicts the Weirs Beach land listed with the National Register of Historic Places. I can’t seem to dig up the map, but my recollection is that the land area doesn’t go that far up the hill. Generally speaking, there is no requirement to protect or investigate historic features unless there is a specific law or permit that requires you to do so. In fact, even a building listed on the National Register can be demolished without any review, unless there is a local ordinance that protects the structure, or some other federal permit triggers a historic review.

The smaller lots that have been developed in the Weirs area (with less than an acre of land disturbance, and no requirement for an Army Corps wetland permit) generally would not trigger a historic review.

FWIW, the Laconia State School property has also been triggered as a property that will need historical and archeological investigation, and I suspect some level of mitigation/preservation.

I’ve been down this road with a development property, and it’s expensive, and time consuming. In our case, we were working with a vacant home that’s only historical significance was a former owner that was a somewhat famous artist in his time. The home was not listed on the National Register, had no architecture of historical significance, and was surrounded by industrial properties. We spent over a year, and over $200,000, creating a digital replica of the home, creating a biography of the former owner, and making a donation to the local historic commission. Then we had to acquire adjacent land, and move the home to the adjacent lot, where it was repurposed as an office with a historically appropriate addition. We were lucky that we were able to find a buyer for the relocated home and adjacent land. The only thing that triggered the historical review was the need to secure a federal stormwater permit for land disturbance over an acre. The process is difficult, in that you need to satisfy the State Office of Historical Preservation, and there are no guidelines or restrictions on what they might require . There is an appeal process, but that is equally ambiguous and expensive.