Restaurant Staffing

[SAMIAM]

It is exciting to see new restaurants opening but I’m wondering where they will find staff.Most of the established restaurants are desperate for help and many have had to cut back on operating hours for lack of help.
Wish them all well and look forward to trying them but I’d be very nervous if I was openin g a new restaurant right now

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

It is exciting to see new restaurants opening but I’m wondering where they will find staff.Most of the established restaurants are desperate for help and many have had to cut back on operating hours for lack of help.
Wish them all well and look forward to trying them but I’d be very nervous if I was openin g a new restaurant right now

Pay enough and you find staff...

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Pay enough and you find staff...

Easier said than done.
I always wondered how restauranters determine the saturation point of an area, anyone know?
It would seem to me it would be maxed out when all these restaurants open.
Do we really have that many more residents moving into the area to support all these new food establishments?

[John Mercier]

No. Quite a few businesses fail.

[TheTimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Pay enough and you find staff...

Money isn't everything but it sure does help!

[jeffk]

It seems to me that paying staff better wages and having to charge customers more to support it works OK during the tourist season. Flocks of people on vacation are willing to fork over extra $$ for a nice meal.

The problem is the ~November - ~May (7 month) off season, when locals are not going to flock to high cost restaurants. With the reduced volume of customers, restaurants probably have to reduce staff. Seasonal ups and downs make it hard to retain reliable staff or even keep open. Paying staff higher wages just amplifies the problem.

I'm looking forward to the additional choices but won't be surprised to see some gone within a couple years. A seasonal market is hard to manage.

[TiltonBB]

It seems all the businesses, including restaurants are having trouble finding good help. Patrick's Pub had a message on their reader board on route 11 for a week saying "Free meal with job application". (Don't tell FLL). They didn't get a single application from it.

[phoenix]

they use to hire Eastern Europeans for summer but permits to allow are lower and housing becomes an issue. I don't think there were ever enough locals who wanted these jobs and if they did want to leave in early August

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by jeffk

It seems to me that paying staff better wages and having to charge customers more to support it works OK during the tourist season. Flocks of people on vacation are willing to fork over extra $$ for a nice meal.

The problem is the ~November - ~May (7 month) off season, when locals are not going to flock to high cost restaurants. With the reduced volume of customers, restaurants probably have to reduce staff. Seasonal ups and downs make it hard to retain reliable staff or even keep open. Paying staff higher wages just amplifies the problem.

I'm looking forward to the additional choices but won't be surprised to see some gone within a couple years. A seasonal market is hard to manage.

Not paying them makes them leave... so you don't have to worry about laying them off in November.

Seasoned management keeps a cool head, looks at the long term, and seeks out ways to overcome seasonal decline of demand.

Statewide tourism revenue showed a record summer last year... but only an increase of 3.3%; while winter of that same cycle was up 17.4%.

So while off-season numbers are lower... there is opportunity there.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Pay enough and you find staff...

So….how much is enough?
The average restaurant is lucky to net 10% before taxes.
Food is up 30% ,wages are up 25% and restaurants just cannot afford to pay unskilled staffers $800 a week.Lucky to find a dishwasher for $20 hourly these days.
Many of these jobs are entry level,part time or just seasonal employment and should have a much lower wage than year round full time skilled positions

[tis]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

So….how much is enough?
The average restaurant is lucky to net 10% before taxes.
Food is up 30% ,wages are up 25% and restaurants just cannot afford to pay unskilled staffers $800 a week.Lucky to find a dishwasher for $20 hourly these days.
Many of these jobs are entry level,part time or just seasonal employment and should have a much lower wage than year round full time skilled positions

People just don't understand it's all relative, the more wages go up, the more everything goes up. It just has to. People aren't in business to lose money.

[fatlazyless]

Just yesterday, May 25 ..... there's a tall young guy, early 20's or younger, maybe 19, who used to work the cash register check-out at Heath's Super Market in Center Harbor who now works the telephone/computer/electronic dept at Plymouth Walmart. I bought a US Cellular flip-fone for eleven dollars, their last one on the locked shelf.

He said that Heath's refused to give him a raise, and now working at Plymouth Walmart, he can afford to live ..... his words.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

So….how much is enough?
The average restaurant is lucky to net 10% before taxes.
Food is up 30% ,wages are up 25% and restaurants just cannot afford to pay unskilled staffers $800 a week.Lucky to find a dishwasher for $20 hourly these days.
Many of these jobs are entry level,part time or just seasonal employment and should have a much lower wage than year round full time skilled positions

Most business only net 10% before taxes.
That is why competent management is so important and so rare.

Because full time year round is a more sought after employment status for many reasons... and can include benefits not calculated in the average wage... part-time seasonal should be a higher wage.

Construction used to be seasonal, we are starting to overcome that fallacy.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Most business only net 10% before taxes.
That is why competent management is so important and so rare.

Because full time year round is a more sought after employment status for many reasons... and can include benefits not calculated in the average wage... part-time seasonal should be a higher wage.

Construction used to be seasonal, we are starting to overcome that fallacy.

I was always told by restaurant owners that 15% to 18% was mandatory to stay alive.

[John Mercier]

Toast lists the average as falling between 3-5; which is probably right.

Dick Tower told me that operating margins are slim, and that the profit in a restaurant is building the sales up to the point that when cashing out you can do very well. That was back in the late 97; but I doubt things have changed much.

[BroadHopper]

Tough market for filling jobs. The larger establishments such as CMAN and Naswa rely on foreign labor. They even provide workforce housing!
In the past few years, I noticed that ski resorts rely on foreign labor and provide workforce housing. Cranmore and Saddleback spent millions in constructing workforce housing. I noticed that larger hotels, like Mt Washington Hotel and Wentworth by the Sea, rely on foreign employees.

I remember when Trump cut back on the green cards to support local labor. It did not go well as domestic labor was scarce and the hospitality industry struggled to get help. Biden restored the card program. It's not enough.

[retired]

Pops Clam Shell and Sawyers solved the seasonal problem by closing in the winter. Not every restaurant can do that.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by retired

Pops Clam Shell and Sawyers solved the seasonal problem by closing in the winter. Not every restaurant can do that.

Besides the labor market at Pop's (it has always been a great source of part-time work for the young people in Alton), the water supply at Pop's is seasonal, and gets shut off before winter.

Dave

[Jeanzb1]

Speaking of restaurants, the old William Tell building is still for sale. Why? It’s been dark since The Lodge during Covid.


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by retired

Pops Clam Shell and Sawyers solved the seasonal problem by closing in the winter. Not every restaurant can do that.

They could.
If the prices are high enough in the summer to cover the costs and provide a carry over in the winter.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Jeanzb1

Speaking of restaurants, the old William Tell building is still for sale. Why? It’s been dark since The Lodge during Covid.

I'd be nervous about trying to open a new restaurant there or anywhere in the region due to the labor shortage.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

They could.
If the prices are high enough in the summer to cover the costs and provide a carry over in the winter.

John,
You can not possibly be an expert in everything. Please, let go of something.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I'd be nervous about trying to open a new restaurant there or anywhere in the region due to the labor shortage.

Agree. Curious to see the employee shuffling once the new resort on Winnisquam starts hiring staff.


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[Riviera]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Most of the established restaurants are desperate for help

I went to 2 different popular restaurants over the Memorial Day weekend, and found them to be surprisingly slow. They weren't empty by any means, but they certainly didn't have full parking lots, and people waiting at the door, as I have seen in recent years. I heard similar accounts from a friend. I wonder if I just caught them at an off time, or if people are getting tired of waiting for service, and paying high prices to dine out?

[WinnisquamZ]

Can only speak for myself, the wife and I were good for four or five nights out a week. Now, it’s two maybe three. Also, it’s not just high prices product quality and service have dropped significantly over the past few years. What was a circle of 6-8 establishments is down to three. Waiting to see how all the restaurant changes play out at the Weirs


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Riviera

I went to 2 different popular restaurants over the Memorial Day weekend, and found them to be surprisingly slow. They weren't empty by any means, but they certainly didn't have full parking lots, and people waiting at the door, as I have seen in recent years. I heard similar accounts from a friend. I wonder if I just caught them at an off time, or if people are getting tired of waiting for service, and paying high prices to dine out?

There were a few that were very busy, esp the ones with outdoor seating. But some of the ones that are usually very busy, Canoe, Lago's, didn't have full parking lots when we went by on Saturday night.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

John,
You can not possibly be an expert in everything. Please, let go of something.

I don't know... my family built Longwood (Canoe today) and Marie's (Center Harbor Diner today); and owned and operated the Tarpon Wharf for several years.

And I currently have to manage personnel for a retail establishment.

Maybe you haven't lived a full life?

[ishoot308]

https://youtu.be/cmNFcwPGDE8?feature=shared


Seems relevant…

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

https://youtu.be/cmNFcwPGDE8?feature=shared


Seems relevant…

Perfect! Thanks for sharing, Dan.

[John Mercier]

Well, plenty of job openings for those of you that know better...

[tis]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

https://youtu.be/cmNFcwPGDE8?feature=shared


Seems relevant…

[WinnisquamZ]

Just experienced my first “fair wage” tax in the lakes region. Stopped at Walter’s Basin” for lunch and was charged a 1.75% tax on my bill. Any other restaurants in the area doing this?


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[Major]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Just experienced my first “fair wage” tax in the lakes region. Stopped at Walter’s Basin” for lunch and was charged a .75% tax on my bill. Any other restaurants in the area doing this?


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Thank you for sharing. I wasn't looking for it, so I probably wouldn't have caught it. I'll be on the lookout now.

The restaurants are desperate. They've increased prices to the limits, so they are looking for other ways to make up the difference. We all know the reason, labor shortage, not inflation!

[TomC]

what's that? And did they inform you ahead of time?

[WinnisquamZ]

As I noted “fair wage” listed as line item under sub total. Nope. Noticed nothing on the menu or was told about it. Wasn’t in the mood to create a event on such a beautiful day


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[rick35]

If they had simply added .75% to the menu item cost we wouldn't be discussing it. Some restaurants add market price adjustments on their menu for the higher cost of fish or meat and I think that is intended as a temporary price adjustment. I don't see anything temporary about a wage adjustment.

[rick35]

And was it .75% or 7.5%? .75% seems low to itemize it on the check.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by rick35

And was it .75% or 7.5%? .75% seems low to itemize it on the check.

My mistake it was 1.75%


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[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by rick35

If they had simply added .75% to the menu item cost we wouldn't be discussing it. Some restaurants add market price adjustments on their menu for the higher cost of fish or meat and I think that is intended as a temporary price adjustment. I don't see anything temporary about a wage adjustment.

Agree. That is why I mentioned it. Many restaurants in the area have had price increases. We are all aware of run away inflation


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[John Mercier]

That number does seem very small. Like 75 cents on $100.
But what if it is just for summer... maybe a way to cover the cost of extra staff in the busy season by offering that little extra; or some form of seasonal bonus?

I always remember that my sister would choose to waitress, because when it got busy she could make a lot. As a prep/dishwasher, the busier we got, the faster I had to work and nothing more than I would get when things were just steady.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I don't know... my family built Longwood (Canoe today) and Marie's (Center Harbor Diner today); and owned and operated the Tarpon Wharf for several years.

And I currently have to manage personnel for a retail establishment.

Maybe you haven't lived a full life?

Didn’t know that….thought Aaron Smith built it.
I bought it in 1972 from Dick Tower and sold in 1978….lot of local history there.It was a gathering place for developers such as Peter Krane making contact with builders and contractors.A lot of deals were made in that place over breakfast

[Biggd]

The wife and I went to Gusto's Taphouse Friday night, got there just as it opened at 4pm.
The meal was delicious, the service and atmosphere was great. We got a table outside overlooking the lake, not under the taphouse.
The price was high and well worth the money, but I can see people cutting back with these prices. If you were going out 3 to 4 times a week before, it cost the same in 2 nights out now. I know we can't do 4 nights a week at these prices anymore.
Good luck to all the new establishments opening up. I think they will need to do some creative marketing to stay busy.

[JayR]

What we are seeing comes straight from Econ 101 -- demand outstripping supply, forcing upward pressure on prices.

Our lake isn't getting any bigger but the U.S population is, and there will only be more and more people with the means to escape to somewhere beautiful, and enjoy some or all of the creature comforts and luxuries they are accustomed to.

When I was a kid, we ate at the cottage every day of the summer. Every day! Maybe we would go to Summerfield's once. The grownups would go the William Tell on New Year's Eve. Paugus Diner a rare breakfast treat. Pizza was nonexistent. Now we want to eat out much of the time. Guilty as charged, hee hee.

I'll complain about prices along with everyone, but it is the new normal. And after I bitch about taxes, food costs, gas and the rest, I remind myself that it still does not cost anything to sit there and stare at the water, the mountains, the sky, and FEEL that feeling. Long live Winni!

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by JayR

What we are seeing comes straight from Econ 101 -- demand outstripping supply, forcing upward pressure on prices.

Our lake isn't getting any bigger but the U.S population is, and there will only be more and more people with the means to escape to somewhere beautiful, and enjoy some or all of the creature comforts and luxuries they are accustomed to.

When I was a kid, we ate at the cottage every day of the summer. Every day! Maybe we would go to Summerfield's once. The grownups would go the William Tell on New Year's Eve. Paugus Diner a rare breakfast treat. Pizza was nonexistent. Now we want to eat out much of the time. Guilty as charged, hee hee.

I'll complain about prices along with everyone, but it is the new normal. And after I bitch about taxes, food costs, gas and the rest, I remind myself that it still does not cost anything to sit there and stare at the water, the mountains, the sky, and FEEL that feeling. Long live Winni!

It's not just the vacation areas. In my hometown of Waltham Ma, we had 4 or 5 dinner restaurants to go to when I was little. I think we had more Diners in town back then.
It was a special treat to go out to eat at a nice sit-down restaurant.
Waltham has 100's of restaurants now and they are all busy, esp on weekends.
Both parents work full time jobs now and kids are on the go all the time so sit-down, home cooked meals at home are rare. Everything gets delivered to the doorstep now.
I don't like it but it's the world we live in now.
I'm old school, I refuse to have takeout delivered to my doorstep. I get in my car and go get it myself!

[The Real BigGuy]

It’s not just restaurants. I went for boat gas last Thursday and was told that they would only be open on weekends until schools got out due to staffing shortages. The place that winterizes & summarizes my boats is down to the owner and his son. He said he can’t find any reliable help.


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Didn’t know that….thought Aaron Smith built it.
I bought it in 1972 from Dick Tower and sold in 1978….lot of local history there.It was a gathering place for developers such as Peter Krane making contact with builders and contractors.A lot of deals were made in that place over breakfast

Aaron is, well was, family.
But the dairy bar that it all evolved from was Natalie.
Edouard Mercier was the actual carpenter.
The land in the area was actually leased from Dane.

The families in that area intermingled heavily.

Marie Cahoon came to the area with her family, and her youngest daughter working as a waitress meeting Edouard's youngest son - my father.

That is also were Edouard's oldest son - Michael - met Beverly Leighton, later to be married and bringing those families together.


And Dick was a master at management. An hour with him was better than a semester in college.

[Descant]

With all the talk about higher restaurant prices, I'm surprised we haven't heard more about reduced portion sizes. One place we used to go often (new owners we never go) specialized in a "tapas" style menu. We'd order multiple times over the course of a visit. I also don't see "extended luncheon menu, or "early bird" specials that are common in other parts of the country. We used to see cafeteria restaurants which is another way to serve lots of meals with reduced staff.

Old time staffing: Who remembers "Dorothy's" in Glendale? Like most seasonal restaurants from say 1945 to 1975, staffing was mostly students. Weekdays in the spring and fall, Dotty might be the only one there, cooking, and a waitress for the dining room. Local customers, (myself included as I was a former employee), would step behind the counter for awhile to take orders, pass out meals, pour coffee, etc.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Descant

With all the talk about higher restaurant prices, I'm surprised we haven't heard more about reduced portion sizes. One place we used to go often (new owners we never go) specialized in a "tapas" style menu. We'd order multiple times over the course of a visit. I also don't see "extended luncheon menu, or "early bird" specials that are common in other parts of the country. We used to see cafeteria restaurants which is another way to serve lots of meals with reduced staff.

Old time staffing: Who remembers "Dorothy's" in Glendale? Like most seasonal restaurants from say 1945 to 1975, staffing was mostly students. Weekdays in the spring and fall, Dotty might be the only one there, cooking, and a waitress for the dining room. Local customers, (myself included as I was a former employee), would step behind the counter for awhile to take orders, pass out meals, pour coffee, etc.

Great Memories at Dorothy's. I spent summers across the street at the Two Pines Trailer Park (lot 4). Good food, great staff (mostly young adults / college kids), good ice cream.

Great swimming off the docks. We'd get in trouble for diving off the large dock posts. Clarence, the dock cop, would yell at us for diving. Then my mother would get 10 fingers from us kids and she would do a wonderful swan dive or jacknife. Clarence would say "Mrs C, you're not helping me out here!"

Dave

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Descant

With all the talk about higher restaurant prices, I'm surprised we haven't heard more about reduced portion sizes. One place we used to go often (new owners we never go) specialized in a "tapas" style menu. We'd order multiple times over the course of a visit. I also don't see "extended luncheon menu, or "early bird" specials that are common in other parts of the country. We used to see cafeteria restaurants which is another way to serve lots of meals with reduced staff.

Old time staffing: Who remembers "Dorothy's" in Glendale? Like most seasonal restaurants from say 1945 to 1975, staffing was mostly students. Weekdays in the spring and fall, Dotty might be the only one there, cooking, and a waitress for the dining room. Local customers, (myself included as I was a former employee), would step behind the counter for awhile to take orders, pass out meals, pour coffee, etc.

I have seen that at the Mug, regular customers helping out when the staff was overwhelmed. Esp when, Paul, the owner was having heart surgery.

[BroadHopper]

My dad used to drive the bulk milk carrier for Weeks. He collected milk from the Dane Farm in the 50s and early 60s before it became Belknap College.

I always thought Longwood Farms was part of the Dane Farm. My dad would deliver milk and ice cream there.

It was fun riding with my Dad when he did deliveries.

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Aaron is, well was, family.
But the dairy bar that it all evolved from was Natalie.
Edouard Mercier was the actual carpenter.
The land in the area was actually leased from Dane.

The families in that area intermingled heavily.

Marie Cahoon came to the area with her family, and her youngest daughter working as a waitress meeting Edouard's youngest son - my father.

That is also were Edouard's oldest son - Michael - met Beverly Leighton, later to be married and bringing those families together.


And Dick was a master at management. An hour with him was better than a semester in college.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by Descant

With all the talk about higher restaurant prices, I'm surprised we haven't heard more about reduced portion sizes. One place we used to go often (new owners we never go) specialized in a "tapas" style menu. We'd order multiple times over the course of a visit. I also don't see "extended luncheon menu, or "early bird" specials that are common in other parts of the country. We used to see cafeteria restaurants which is another way to serve lots of meals with reduced staff.

Old time staffing: Who remembers "Dorothy's" in Glendale? Like most seasonal restaurants from say 1945 to 1975, staffing was mostly students. Weekdays in the spring and fall, Dotty might be the only one there, cooking, and a waitress for the dining room. Local customers, (myself included as I was a former employee), would step behind the counter for awhile to take orders, pass out meals, pour coffee, etc.

Reduced portions is happening everywhere….we love Harts turkey dinners and brought one home the other night.Small turkey dinner is over $20 with taxes.
It looked a little small so I put the meat on my portion scale and it was only 4oz.Knowing that whole turkeys cost around $2.25 per lb it was a little disappointing .Totally understand that everyone is facing huge labor costs right now but jeez,guys, maybe could you add another ounce or two ?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Reduced portions is happening everywhere….we love Harts turkey dinners and brought one home the other night.Small turkey dinner is over $20 with taxes.
It looked a little small so I put the meat on my portion scale and it was only 4oz.Knowing that whole turkeys cost around $2.25 per lb it was a little disappointing .Totally understand that everyone is facing huge labor costs right now but jeez,guys, maybe could you add another ounce or two ?

I love Hart's too! Pretty sure their small turkey dinner has always been on their menu at right around 3-4 oz, so not sure this would be a portion change.

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Reduced portions is happening everywhere….we love Harts turkey dinners and brought one home the other night.Small turkey dinner is over $20 with taxes.
It looked a little small so I put the meat on my portion scale and it was only 4oz.Knowing that whole turkeys cost around $2.25 per lb it was a little disappointing .Totally understand that everyone is facing huge labor costs right now but jeez,guys, maybe could you add another ounce or two ?

Just thinking, Sam, you are obviously comparing that meal to the Village Kitchen. How many ounces of turkey do they serve there and what is the cost now?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Biggd

It's not just the vacation areas. In my hometown of Waltham Ma, we had 4 or 5 dinner restaurants to go to when I was little. I think we had more Diners in town back then.
It was a special treat to go out to eat at a nice sit-down restaurant.
Waltham has 100's of restaurants now and they are all busy, esp on weekends.
Both parents work full time jobs now and kids are on the go all the time so sit-down, home cooked meals at home are rare. Everything gets delivered to the doorstep now.
I don't like it but it's the world we live in now.
I'm old school, I refuse to have takeout delivered to my doorstep. I get in my car and go get it myself!

A World of Smartphones and recreational/medical attractions.

[tis]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Reduced portions is happening everywhere….we love Harts turkey dinners and brought one home the other night.Small turkey dinner is over $20 with taxes.
It looked a little small so I put the meat on my portion scale and it was only 4oz.Knowing that whole turkeys cost around $2.25 per lb it was a little disappointing .Totally understand that everyone is facing huge labor costs right now but jeez,guys, maybe could you add another ounce or two ?

Can you carry your portion scale with you?

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Just thinking, Sam, you are obviously comparing that meal to the Village Kitchen. How many ounces of turkey do they serve there and what is the cost now?

Not sure Susie…..I’m guessing 4 oz in the small dinner but its only $11.95 not 20….also the large is only $14.95 I think Harts is close to $30
And Seth has the same staffing problem

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by tis

Can you carry your portion scale with you?

It was takeout, measured at home.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Not sure Susie…..I’m guessing 4 oz in the small dinner but its only $11.95 not 20….also the large is only $14.95 I think Harts is close to $30

And Seth has the same staffing problem

Though my last experience at Hart's was tastier than usual, there hasn't been a single time I've been impressed by their portions vs. price. We go there simply for offerings other restaurants don't typically have.

That being said, I've noticed a lot of places in the area are now offering "turkey dinners," so there's really no need to go anymore.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Not sure Susie…..I’m guessing 4 oz in the small dinner but its only $11.95 not 20….also the large is only $14.95 I think Harts is close to $30
And Seth has the same staffing problem

That’s why so many of us have loved the VK for years. good comfort food at a reasonable price.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Though my last experience at Hart's was tastier than usual, there hasn't been a single time I've been impressed by their portions vs. price. We go there simply for offerings other restaurants don't typically have.

That being said, I've noticed a lot of places in the area are now offering "turkey dinners," so there's really no need to go anymore.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

It always pains me that such a thoughtful pen pal has no appreciation for great dining. You should go to Hart's for:

1) The experience of everyone in your family eating turkey, stuffing, gravy, etc, simultaneously. You can relive Thanksgiving in July Seriously, it fills me with nostalgic joy every time

2) The carrot slaw and Ritz crackers (They're free--your favorite kind of meal!)

3) Their Tanqueray & Tonics are just right

[tis]

Originally Posted by codeman671

It was takeout, measured at home.

Ah ok. I wondered if there was a portable scale.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Reduced portions is happening everywhere….

Must be an east coast thing, as the Chinese food I ordered two days ago at the Oregon coast came as it always has: a large portion with plenty left over to take away for a midnight snack.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Not sure Susie…..I’m guessing 4 oz in the small dinner but its only $11.95 not 20….also the large is only $14.95 I think Harts is close to $30
And Seth has the same staffing problem

Does Hart's have a staffing problem?
I understand that they are pulling from the same labor pool; but maybe Hart's is providing itself some room to pay the higher labor costs... maybe going after a higher end market?

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by tis

Can you carry your portion scale with you?

Haha….no,I don’t go into restaurants and plunk a scale on the table.This was at home.I have a scale for measuring recipe ingrediants

[tis]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Haha….no,I don’t go into restaurants and plunk a scale on the table.This was at home.I have a scale for measuring recipe ingrediants

Thanks. I was talking to a friend and she asked me if you took the scale with you and I replied I didn't know, but I must admit her question made me curious. So thanks for the reply. Hope you are enjoying retirement.

[Biggd]

I've noticed two restaurants that I've frequented for the past ten years have lost their long-time bar tenders.
So yes, other establishments are stealing top producing employees.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I've noticed two restaurants that I've frequented for the past ten years have lost their long-time bar tenders.
So yes, other establishments are stealing top producing employees.

Stealing is not the appropriate word to use. Giving one more opportunity for growth and income should always be welcomed. Those establishments losing “solid” employees have yet to learn from other’s mistakes. You must identify your “key” employees. It’s difficult as many business owners are out of touch with the daily day to day tasks and work environment.


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[Descant]

Over the years we have found that good wait staff and bartenders have their own following. Management knows that, esp. when folks call for reservations and ask to be "in A's section", or "who's tending bar tonight?" In a local case, not a chain but several restaurants are under one ownership (Not CM in this case). When they open something new, our favorite may move for two reasons. 1. He/she will bring some business with them. 2. They help train new staff in "the way we do things here." So it may not be apparent, but staff are moving but not leaving. This is certainly common in fast food chains where management may operate several stores. One friend in the restaurant business was schooled in culinary arts, but works out front because he can handle five tables when somebody else can only do three, and his table management means more turnover. "That's where the money is".

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Descant

Over the years we have found that good wait staff and bartenders have their own following. Management knows that, esp. when folks call for reservations and ask to be "in A's section", or "who's tending bar tonight?" In a local case, not a chain but several restaurants are under one ownership (Not CM in this case). When they open something new, our favorite may move for two reasons. 1. He/she will bring some business with them. 2. They help train new staff in "the way we do things here." So it may not be apparent, but staff are moving but not leaving. This is certainly common in fast food chains where management may operate several stores. One friend in the restaurant business was schooled in culinary arts, but works out front because he can handle five tables when somebody else can only do three, and his table management means more turnover. "That's where the money is".

The two that I mentioned moved on to new establishments with new owners after being with them for over ten years, and I will follow them to their new restaurants as I think many others will also.

[John Mercier]

I can see the value of that, as long as the new establishment has a decent back room staff. Great service with under par food prep, I think would push some away.

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Pay enough and you find staff...

you can't pay much over market without dire repercussions

[John Mercier]

The market is whatever is supply/demand equilibrium is.

So if one establishment is paying more... even if you feel that it is ''over market''... but that establishment is moving forward; and another establishment is paying what you feel is ''market'' but it is moving backward... then what you feel is appropriate ''market'' is not accurate.

If a business doesn't pay enough to acquire the number of employees it needs to service its customers, it must either pay more to acquire the employees that it needs or reduce its customer demand.

Most managers come from a theory that reducing customer demand is bad. So they are caught on the wheel that they must pay more to acquire the employees that they need or go out of business.

In the past, managers would look to make employees more efficient... more productivity; but that is largely easier to do with industry rather than service. Service productivity is less about flow management and more about training and enticement.

Think of that in a restaurant as more like waiting tables... the more tables and turns you can handle... the more you can make in tips.
The backroom staff can be managed like industry... a type of production line... but their enticement (pay/salary) is usually static.

Large international hotels have handled this by including tips in the bill. A tip for the waitstaff (as some people do not tip or tip well) and a surcharge/tip for the backroom staff. The more food they prepare... the more they can make.

[gokart-mozart]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The market is whatever is supply/demand equilibrium is.

So if one establishment is paying more... even if you feel that it is ''over market''... but that establishment is moving forward; and another establishment is paying what you feel is ''market'' but it is moving backward... then what you feel is appropriate ''market'' is not accurate.

If a business doesn't pay enough to acquire the number of employees it needs to service its customers, it must either pay more to acquire the employees that it needs or reduce its customer demand.

Most managers come from a theory that reducing customer demand is bad. So they are caught on the wheel that they must pay more to acquire the employees that they need or go out of business.

In the past, managers would look to make employees more efficient... more productivity; but that is largely easier to do with industry rather than service. Service productivity is less about flow management and more about training and enticement.

Think of that in a restaurant as more like waiting tables... the more tables and turns you can handle... the more you can make in tips.
The backroom staff can be managed like industry... a type of production line... but their enticement (pay/salary) is usually static.

Large international hotels have handled this by including tips in the bill. A tip for the waitstaff (as some people do not tip or tip well) and a surcharge/tip for the backroom staff. The more food they prepare... the more they can make.

There's a shop in Wolfeboro where the tip jar has a sign that says "support our workers".

Raising the logical questioh, "Why don't you support your own workers?"

[gokart-mozart]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The market is whatever is supply/demand equilibrium is.

So if one establishment is paying more... even if you feel that it is ''over market''... but that establishment is moving forward; and another establishment is paying what you feel is ''market'' but it is moving backward... then what you feel is appropriate ''market'' is not accurate.
\

The term "for sale below market", and similar terms, keep popping up all the time.

Of course, it's deceptive, it's actually ridiculous.

I once bought a house for $380K from a stranger. Never met him before the closing. The next month I got a tax bill based on a "market value" from the town (in MA) of $430K.

I contested the bill, claiming that the closing last month SET the "market value". It was no longer speculative what a arms-length transaction between strangers might bring, all they had to do was look it up.

And they agreed and cut the bill.

Similarly, employers are fond of the concept of "above market wages". There is no such thing, unless "market" means "what I wish I could get away with paying legal workers". 4 of my kids started waiting tables in Wolfeboro, the fifth worked retail. A "market wage" is what you have to pay to run your place, no more, no less.

[Trail Goer]

Originally Posted by Riviera

I went to 2 different popular restaurants over the Memorial Day weekend, and found them to be surprisingly slow. They weren't empty by any means, but they certainly didn't have full parking lots, and people waiting at the door, as I have seen in recent years. I heard similar accounts from a friend. I wonder if I just caught them at an off time, or if people are getting tired of waiting for service, and paying high prices to dine out?

I think Memorial Day Weekend has always been slow for restaurants, it's a big weekend for cookouts as long as the weather holds up.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Trail Goer

I think Memorial Day Weekend has always been slow for restaurants, it's a big weekend for cookouts as long as the weather holds up.

Maybe now. I recall (OK, OK. 1965-70) when camps were just being opened and without water and electricity (or propane) everybody ate out at the small family restaurants.

[John Mercier]

Does it seem like the camps are opening earlier now than back then?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Does it seem like the camps are opening earlier now than back then?

Well, winters aren't as cold and there are many more year-round homes.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Does it seem like the camps are opening earlier now than back then?

A lot of variables here. More islands have electricity, earlier ice-out, but the marinas aren't doing much better at getting boats ready--they have staff issues too. More mainland camps are year round as noted above. But this thread is about restaurant staffing and a lot of that, for summer season, still relies on students and the school calendars. Double whammy there: students nowadays want to leave mid -August for sports teams, band, etc and many of them want a week's vacation instead of working through Labor Day. That makes them less desirable hires. "Back ten" students worked to make money to pay bills. Now thy just take out loans without collateral, so there's a different perspective on long term finances. Nobody "Works their way through school" anymore.

[fatlazyless]

Effective July 1, 2024 ..... http://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact...sa-restaurants ...... managers and assistant managers in restaurants will now qualify for time & 1/2 over 40 hrs/wk if they handle a food or a beverage.

[John Mercier]

You brought up that decades ago, when opening the camps that everyone would eat out. Maybe that skews the perception of how many patrons are eating out on Memorial Day weekend. Maybe when opening camps earlier, the data would be more comparable to looking a week or more before Memorial Day weekend?

I know that we have tried to pull some from the restaurant business into our staff... and have had some success. Our two youngest employees at this location come from that profession.