Gas choice

[RUGMAN]

What are people using for their leaf blower, snow blower, oct. Years ago I was told to use the ethanol free gas in the grey cans bought at a hardware store. I recently was having trouble with my leaf blower. Brought it to a tech who told me not to use that gas , but use regular high octane gas from a gas station, he has seen many problems with people using the gas in those , and not to use it.

[thinkxingu]

I buy a gallon of non-ethanol at 603 Gas in Moultonborough at the beginning and end of the season and add 2-stroke premix. I use that for my chainsaw and push mower. Anything left at the end of that season goes into my wife's Frontier's tank.

For my splitter, garden tractor, generator, and snowblower, I use regular fuel with Star-Tron.

Any engine with a fuel shut-off is run until it stalls.

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[Loub52]

For a Husqvarna leaf blower, I’ve stuck with the recommended 2-cycle mix of true fuel for it since 2016; great performance and no mixing issues to deal with. For a 4-cycle torro mower, snow thrower and snow blower, I’ve run since before 2016 using ethanol unleaded gas, being sure to run them to empty at the end of the season.

[Slickcraft]

Haffner's in Gilford has ethanol free gas, 90 octane. Fresh from the pump, not in an aged can.

Yes always run 'till free of gas at the end of the season and in season use the gas shut off, if you have one to shut down.


Alan

[TomC]

That goes in every engine I have 100 percent of the time. I use it in my yard machines and my classic cars. Daily drivers are the only engines that get the corn blend....

[ishoot308]

Even if you use Ethanol free gas, you should still add stabilizer to it. Ethanol free gas is only good for approximately 6 months before it starts breaking down. I use stabil marine stabilizer in everything…never had an issue.

Dan

[John Mercier]

The tech told you that because ethanol does not create varnish (gumming), that is the oxidation of chemicals in raw gas.

The canned gas that we sell - either four stroke or two stroke premix - is really a blend that has stabilizers in it, and is sealed against oxidation until the can is opened. Basically designed for a long shelf life.

If you ran ethanol-free and developed varnish, switching to ethanol-blend (a solvent) could cause the varnish to break free and gum up the carb. So you may need to clean the carb... which a carb cleaner mixed into the fuel should help with. It keeps the varnish that the low level of ethanol broke free in a near liquid state and works it through the system.

Once you are on an ethanol-blend, just make certain that the gas does not get old in the tank. The octane level is less of an issue, but high octane can result in overheating a motor... especially in a four stroke. That will show up as a ''bluing'' of the muffler near the exhaust port.

Pre-fire each season to determine if the gas is in need of replacement. Gas from the four stroke can be drained and added to a vehicle - the computerized fuel injection system has a greater ability to compensate than the carb system does.

So basically, we have new gasoline for the snow thrower and generator in the winter on-hand, but will fill the cars/truck with it by the end of the season if it goes unused.

[DRH]

I agree with Slickcraft and ishoot308. This year I used ethanol-free gas purchased at Haffner's in Gilford for all my outdoor lawn equipment. It's not inexpensive, but it's performed very well in both my 2-stroke and 4-stroke engines. I treat it with Sta-bil 360 to prolong its life, and I run the engines dry at the end of the season. (Did that when using ethanol gas in the past, too.) I'll be using it in my snowblower this winter as well. I think using treated ethanol-free gas in all small engines is the way to go these days.

[RUGMAN]

thanks for all the tips, I will start to use stability. and drain at end of season.

[Hillcountry]

Using the canned 50:1 mix in my 2cycle equipment exclusively. I also add a touch of SeaFoam or StarTron stabilizer. NEVER in my life have I emptied my 2cycle tanks nor my 4 cycle equipment. My equipment ALWAYS starts easily in the Spring. Of course, StarTron or SeaFoam goes in my 4 stroke equipment as well. YMMV I guess…🤔
If I think my supply of generator fuel is getting “stale” I will empty it into my truck and refill my cans as needed. Seafoam or StarTron tie in this as well.

[The Real BigGuy]

I just had my leaf blower serviced because of carb issues. I asked the tech if I should use the canned ethanol free. He said he uses premium gas mixed 50:1. The key, he said is to only buy as close to what you use as possible. If you can’t use up all your gas/oil mix store the left over somewhere where the temp is constant. This will slow the breakdown and “sugar” formation in the fuel can. The sugars are what creates the “varnish” in the carb. Also, try and run the equipment tank to empty. (Unfortunately, my blower doesn’t have a fuel shut off so I can’t shut off the fuel and run the carb dry.) He also said he never uses stabilizers. Good suggestions since the canned 50:1 mix was priced at $33/gal.


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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

I just had my leaf blower serviced because of carb issues. I asked the tech if I should use the canned ethanol free. He said he uses premium gas mixed 50:1. The key, he said is to only buy as close to what you use as possible. If you can’t use up all your gas/oil mix store the left over somewhere where the temp is constant. This will slow the breakdown and “sugar” formation in the fuel can. The sugars are what creates the “varnish” in the carb. Also, try and run the equipment tank to empty. (Unfortunately, my blower doesn’t have a fuel shut off so I can’t shut off the fuel and run the carb dry.) He also said he never uses stabilizers. Good suggestions since the canned 50:1 mix was priced at $33/gal.


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“Sugar”?….Really? Never heard that and don’t believe it. Hmmm…not sure I would be taking any advice from this so called “service tech”.

Dan

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

I just had my leaf blower serviced because of carb issues. I asked the tech if I should use the canned ethanol free. He said he uses premium gas mixed 50:1. The key, he said is to only buy as close to what you use as possible. If you can’t use up all your gas/oil mix store the left over somewhere where the temp is constant. This will slow the breakdown and “sugar” formation in the fuel can. The sugars are what creates the “varnish” in the carb. Also, try and run the equipment tank to empty. (Unfortunately, my blower doesn’t have a fuel shut off so I can’t shut off the fuel and run the carb dry.) He also said he never uses stabilizers. Good suggestions since the canned 50:1 mix was priced at $33/gal.


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Most of the mix oils come with stabilizers already added, so your tech probably does have it in his fuel.



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[bobkatfly]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

“Sugar”?….Really? Never heard that and don’t believe it. Hmmm…not sure I would be taking any advice from this so called “service tech”.

Dan

Yeah, no sugars form in stored gasoline. The "varnish" only forms from hydrocarbon oxidation.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Most of the mix oils come with stabilizers already added, so your tech probably does have it in his fuel.



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He doesn’t use canned fuel. He buys premium gas at the pump and adds 2 stroke oil.


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[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by bobkatfly

Yeah, no sugars form in stored gasoline. The "varnish" only forms from hydrocarbon oxidation.

Gasoline also contains “gum” (sometimes called “sugar”) which is the residue left over and measured after evaporation.

It can be the result of higher boiling oils that were not removed during the refining process or particulate from bad fuel handing. It can also be created by oxidation during storage or the chemical reaction of some fuel components.


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[Biggd]

A buddy of mine drained his pontoon fuel tank last season after not using it much in 4 years. When he drained it there was a substance that looked like saw dust in the fuel when left to dry. I'm assuming this is the old ethanol.
Anyway, he uses non ethanol fuel now and stabilizer with no issues.
I use ethanol fuel in everything but most of my power equipment is used constantly so I've had no issues. I start my Snowblower and let it run a few times during the summer.

[John Mercier]

Shouldn't be...
The ethanol is alcohol. Clear, colorless, and evaporates.
Basically why ethanol-blend has a limited shelf life.

[codeman671]

I use the canned premix in my backpack blower and never have to drain it. For our baby zero turn, log splitter and DR Power Wagon at the island I try to run the ethanol free fuel from Haffners but run high octane pump gas as well if that is what I have on hand. At the end of the season, I would run them dry, none of them have shutoffs.

I have gone to Husqvarna battery operated chain saws, hand blowers, trimmers and pole saws for everything else and prefer it.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

He doesn’t use canned fuel. He buys premium gas at the pump and adds 2 stroke oil.


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I know—that image is from Husqvarna's 2-stroke oil. Most of those little bottles also contain stabilizer.

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[bobkatfly]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Gasoline also contains “gum” (sometimes called “sugar”) which is the residue left over and measured after evaporation.

It can be the result of higher boiling oils that were not removed during the refining process or particulate from bad fuel handing. It can also be created by oxidation during storage or the chemical reaction of some fuel components.


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I think it's just semantics. Varnish, sugar, gum... all the same thing that clogs orifices. I think names originating in the trades should have their own dictionary.

[The Real BigGuy]

I agree!


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[bobkatfly]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Gasoline also contains “gum” (sometimes called “sugar”) which is the residue left over and measured after evaporation.

It can be the result of higher boiling oils that were not removed during the refining process or particulate from bad fuel handing. It can also be created by oxidation during storage or the chemical reaction of some fuel components.


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I think it's just semantics. Varnish, sugar, gum... all the same thing that clogs orifices. Names originating in the trades should have there own dictionary

[NH.Solar]

In my past I made my living as the operator of a small engine dealership and I can tell you for sure that when ethanol became mandatory in the late 80s it totally changed the scope of the chainsaw business. My dealership in Concord was at that time selling about 400+ Jonsered units per year and all of a sudden many were coming back with hard starting engines with little compression. The culprit was generally that the alcohol was causing the combustion to run extra hot and that would cause the piston on the exhaust side to melt at at its edge and run down and seize the compression ring. This was easily and simply determined in front of our clients by removing the 2 or 3 bolts that held the muffler in place and looking at the piston in the bore. If you have a engine that is hard starting do that before looking any further for problems. If the piston looks to be just slightly siezed (look for "cat scratches on it) it might still be possible to relatively cheaply save it ...so contact me directly and I'll walk you through the simple steps..
As pointed out in some of the other posts the newer brand name oils all have additives that address both ethanol and storage, so no other supplements should be neccesary and may in fact actually be harmful. I do recommend using non-ethanol high test and I personally but all of my two stroke gas at the aforementioned gas station just before the Neck road ...and I burn more than ten gallons a month in my very demanding high performance "hot" saws. If you check with any other good professional wood cutters you'll probably find that they too are using both non-ethanol high test and a brand name 2 stoke oil as it is cheap insurance against engine failure and the high cost of down time.
For your four stroke engines that might sit for a long between running (generators for example) I would still recommend using non-ehthanol because it takes longer to spoil, but it is not forever forgiving of spoilage so change out that gas every sixmonths or so and mix that aqed fuel in your vehicle next time you are going fill up.
Small engines with plastic tanks are best left empty for long term storage, but metal tanks are best left full and then the fuel recycled through your car. Why? Metal tanks in New England are subject to frequent daily extreme temperature swings and over time the condensation that will result will settle in the bottom of the tanks and rust them out. I bet that in my life time I have braised hundreds of old cylindrical metal tractor tanks to seal the leaks!
Last, as mentioned it is always a good practice to run carberators dry when an engine might not be run for any long length of time, so get in the habit of shutting your machine down every time by shutting off the fuel rather than the ignition

[dpg]

Years ago I was told by someone who either worked on something for me or sold me something not to run the engine dry and leave it all winter. The theory was any rubber gaskets, etc can dry out and crack. For years I've bought mid grade pumped gas for all small engines and at storage the canned fuel from the store. Everythings starts up for me as expected when needed. After 7 or 8 years if I'm losing a little performance from something I wouldn't notice it anyway most likely. Also, I never buy "no name" gas for anything, it's always Shell, Mobil or those brands for me. Son bought a used Cadillac from a friend and when he had it at a dealership they told him never put Cumberland Farms gas in it. Specifically mentioned "Cumby's." Had a few definite issues resolved making the switch from "cheaper" gas over to Shell. Yeah it's all the same stuff out of the ground it's the additives they add making it their own.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by NH.Solar

In my past I made my living as the operator of a small engine dealership and I can tell you for sure that when ethanol became mandatory in the late 80s it totally changed the scope of my business. My dealership in Concord was at that time selling about 400+ Jonsered units per year and all of a sudden many were coming back with hard starting engines with little compression. The culprit was generally that the alcohol was causing the combustion to run extra hot and that would cause the piston on the exhaust side to melt at at its edge and run down and seize the compression ring. This was easily and simply determined in front of our clients by removing the 2 or 3 bolts that held the muffler in place and looking at the piston in the bore. If you have a engine that is hard starting do that before looking any further for problems. If the piston looks to be siezed (look for "car scratches on it) it might still be possible to relatively cheaply save it ...so contact me directly.
As pointed out in some of the other posts the newer brand name oils all have additives that address both ethanol and storage, so no other supplements should be neccesary and may in fact actually be harmful. I do recommend using non-ethanol high test and I personally but all of my two stroke gas at the aforementioned gas station just before the Neck road ...and I burn more than ten gallons a month in my very demanding high performance "hot" saws. If you check with any other good professioanl wood cutters you'll probably find that they too are using both non-ethanol high test and a professional 2 stoke oil as it is cheap insurance against engine failure and the high cost of down time.
For your four stroke engines that might sit for a long between running (generators for example) I would still recommend using non-ehthanol because it takes longer to spoil, but it is not forever forgiving of spoilage so change out that gas every sixmonths or so and mix that aqed fuel in your vehicle next time you are going fill up.
Small engines with plastic tanks are best left empty for long term storage, but metal tanks are best left full and then the fuel recycled through your car. Why? Metal tanks in New England are subject to frequent daily extreme temperature swings and over time the condensation that will result will settle in the bottom of the tanks and rust them out. I bet that in my life time I have braised a hundred old cylindrical metal tractor tanks to seal the leaks!
Last, as mentioned it is always a good practice to run carberators dry when an engine might not be run for any long length of time, so get in the habit of shutting your machine down every time by shutting off the fuel rather than the ignition

Hot Saws are specific.
Off the shelf, commercial grade (professional grade is just a higher end residential with better marketing) had problems because loggers like my father would run high octane fuel. With the addition of ethanol, this would raise the octane rating even further causing overheating.

[SAMIAM]

I have a John Deere Gator, riding mower, push mower, 3 chain saws and several other two stroke tools. At the end of the season I fill them all with fresh 87octane, stabilizer and they all start right up in the spring….been doing that for 30 years and never had a problem

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

I have a John Deere Gator, riding mower, push mower, 3 chain saws and several other two stroke tools. At the end of the season I fill them all with fresh 87octane, stabilizer and they all start right up in the spring….been doing that for 30 years and never had a problem

The older equipment always seems to work well. Some of the newer equipment, esp the Chinese made crap, is junk. I had a Poulin lawn mower that I bought at Sears 25 years ago, never failed to start. I had to retire it because it was burning too much oil and left a cloud of smoke when I cut the lawn. I bought a new Husqvarna a few years ago to replace it. I have to take the carb off every spring and clean it to get it to run right. I've tried running it dry, always use stabilizer but it has a cheap Chinese carburetor on it and the float needle always has to be cleaned.
I'm slowly turning over many of my tools to battery powered. I bought a Makita chain saw this past summer to replace a 40 year old Homelite, which never failed to start, by the way and I'm going to buy a Makita lawn mower this winter.
Just removing the anxiety of not knowing if these things are going to continue to start when I need them is worth the price.
I'm a retired mechanic so I can fix all the gas equipment when it fails but I don't want to anymore, don't even want to work on my vehicles anymore.

[pondguy]

I have been doing the same thing for over 50 years just not sure they had Sta-Bil back then and the gas I used was called high test, and everything started right up in the spring.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Biggd

The older equipment always seems to work well. Some of the newer equipment, esp the Chinese made crap, is junk. I had a Poulin lawn mower that I bought at Sears 25 years ago, never failed to start. I had to retire it because it was burning too much oil and left a cloud of smoke when I cut the lawn. I bought a new Husqvarna a few years ago to replace it. I have to take the carb off every spring and clean it to get it to run right. I've tried running it dry, always use stabilizer but it has a cheap Chinese carburetor on it and the float needle always has to be cleaned.
I'm slowly turning over many of my tools to battery powered. I bought a Makita chain saw this past summer to replace a 40 year old Homelite, which never failed to start, by the way and I'm going to buy a Makita lawn mower this winter.
Just removing the anxiety of not knowing if these things are going to continue to start when I need them is worth the price.
I'm a retired mechanic so I can fix all the gas equipment when it fails but I don't want to anymore, don't even want to work on my vehicles anymore.

I was told some years back that the carb issue is less about manufacture origin and more about efficiency and EPA regulations. That the needles are more precise/efficient and, thus, more prone to blockage.

In terms of electric tools, I'm totally with you on the whacker, blower, etc. but for my snowblower, tractor, and chainsaw there's no way I'd go battery...at least with today's tech. They just simply can't compete.

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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I was told some years back that the carb issue is less about manufacture origin and more about efficiency and EPA regulations. That the needles are more precise/efficient and, thus, more prone to blockage.

In terms of electric tools, I'm totally with you on the whacker, blower, etc. but for my snowblower, tractor, and chainsaw there's no way I'd go battery...at least with today's tech. They just simply can't compete.

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Old carburetors were never made with plastic components years ago. I've rebuilt a lot of carbs in my day and the needles don't look much different, but they do have a lot more plastic components.
I love my Makita chain saw, I don't cut as much wood as I use to, so it works great for me. It's a 16" with double 18V batteries, just as powerful as my gas saw. I bought it with 4 batteries and I can just switch batteries and keep cutting. It will give me an hour of cutting and it takes about 45 minutes to charge them up. So, with the 4 batteries I could go all day with just switching out batteries.
My biggest problem is I will run dead before that!
As far as the lawn mower, I don't have much grass, so I only need a push mower. A Makita battery mower will suit me just fine.
My snow blower and backpack blower will stay gas powered and my tractor is diesel.
I haven't found a battery powered leaf blower worth a dam!

[John Mercier]

The lawn mowers also have that option to switch out the batteries.
I'm not sure if the Makita blower is a two battery system, I didn't pay that much attention, but Makita doesn't have the added backpack or harness system like Ryobi does... so it may be an issue.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Old carburetors were never made with plastic components years ago. I've rebuilt a lot of carbs in my day and the needles don't look much different, but they do have a lot more plastic components.
I love my Makita chain saw, I don't cut as much wood as I use to, so it works great for me. It's a 16" with double 18V batteries, just as powerful as my gas saw. I bought it with 4 batteries and I can just switch batteries and keep cutting. It will give me an hour of cutting and it takes about 45 minutes to charge them up. So, with the 4 batteries I could go all day with just switching out batteries.
My biggest problem is I will run dead before that!
As far as the lawn mower, I don't have much grass, so I only need a push mower. A Makita battery mower will suit me just fine.
My snow blower and backpack blower will stay gas powered and my tractor is diesel.
I haven't found a battery powered leaf blower worth a dam!

See, I totally dig my Greenworks Pro 60V hand and backpack blowers, but there's no way you'll catch me with a 16" battery-powered chainsaw! Stihl 361 FOR LIFE.

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[The Real BigGuy]

Biggs, I thought the same as you until I tried my son’s 40v Milwaukee saw. Cuts as well, if not better, than my gas saw did when it was at its best with no fuss other than checking the bar & chain oil. He also has a 40v Milwaukee mower so has multiple batteries. However, we did about 4 hrs of cutting (not continuously) and never needed to swap.

Since he is close by, and his saw is usually available I have not spent $ to fix my gas saw. Since the saw & batteries are quite expensive I will never buy my own.


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Biggs, I thought the same as you until I tried my son’s 40v Milwaukee saw. Cuts as well, if not better, than my gas saw did when it was at its best with no fuss other than checking the bar & chain oil. He also has a 40v Milwaukee mower so has multiple batteries. However, we did about 4 hrs of cutting (not continuously) and never needed to swap.

Since he is close by, and his saw is usually available I have not spent $ to fix my gas saw. Since the saw & batteries are quite expensive I will never buy my own.


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The key is when you buy more tools, buy all the same make and battery size. I buy all 18V Makita tools, so I have lots of batteries and chargers now.
Makita has a 40V saw also but all my other tools are 18V. So, I bought a saw that takes two 18V batteries.
The only negative to the battery powered saw is it's much heavier than my Homelite.