Meredith lake access rights

[Elrockk]

hello thanks for the add I bought a Home on Meredith Neck Road my property is not Water Front how do I findout if I have access to nearby Cove

[TheTimeTraveler]

Although I am not positive, but wouldn't any easement be in your property deed?

Also, what was represented to you by either the Real Estate Broker or the previous owner?

Hopefully we have some Real Estate folks who read these forums that will add their 2 cents.

[Elrockk]

was my MIL house was up here 30 years ago and Steve showed me the dock

[TiltonBB]

By "access to nearby cove" what do you mean? The water is public.

I don't know who "Steve" is but if he is available you could start by asking him.

If you think you may own a dock you could check with your town Tax Collector and see what they show for ownership and who has been paying taxes on the land with the dock.

You could check the deed for your property through the county records as well as the deed for the dock property to confirm ownership.

You could ask the abutters to the dock what their understanding of ownership and past use is.

[Biggd]

I would think it would be written into your deed. If it's not, then you probably have no legal rights.
I have rights written into my deed for shared waterfront, but it doesn't specify dock rights. That is controlled by the association.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Elrockk

hello thanks for the add I bought a Home on Meredith Neck Road my property is not Water Front how do I findout if I have access to nearby Cove

Reading the deed is the obvious first step, but it seems possible there was a friendly agreement about use of the dock 30 years ago. Is the dock still there? Does the tax card refer to it? Who did you buy from? Etc Etc. Is this a permanent dock or a "temporary seasonal dock"? Is there any indication of adverse possession? I'd guess your P & S Agreement refers to a period of due diligence. In that process, your attorney should have found any legal basis for lake access. Call him/her.

Interesting question, so I hope you'll report back to the Forum.

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by Elrockk

hello thanks for the add I bought a Home on Meredith Neck Road my property is not Water Front how do I findout if I have access to nearby Cove

Did you buy 312 Meredith Neck Rd. in August? If this is your house, it says right in the listing that you have a 24 foot dock that is only a short golf cart ride away. I am wondering if the other people that use the beach are just mad that there’s someone new there. Am I on the right track?

[Mr. V]

OP: For a definitive answer hire a local real estate attorney to look into it.

[Elrockk]

im at 280 Merideth Neck Road Steve was my Father in Law he has past im looking at Kelly Cove from what i can see looks like a path from my house to the Cove and 2 sunken docks

[Elrockk]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I would think it would be written into your deed. If it's not, then you probably have no legal rights.
I have rights written into my deed for shared waterfront, but it doesn't specify dock rights. That is controlled by the association.

who are the Association?

[Elrockk]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

Although I am not positive, but wouldn't any easement be in your property deed?

Also, what was represented to you by either the Real Estate Broker or the previous owner?

Hopefully we have some Real Estate folks who read these forums that will add their 2 cents.

my Inlaws home so no agents but would welcome thier input

[Elrockk]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Did you buy 312 Meredith Neck Rd. in August? If this is your house, it says right in the listing that you have a 24 foot dock that is only a short golf cart ride away. I am wondering if the other people that use the beach are just mad that there’s someone new there. Am I on the right track?

no i bought 280 MNR

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by Elrockk

no i bought 280 MNR

I would ask the neighbor who has the path on their property that leads to the lake, if you have the right to access it.

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I would ask the neighbor who has the path on their property that leads to the lake, if you have the right to access it.

This might not be the best place to start. If they say "NO!" and are wrong, it can create a hostile environment. It could be an innocent error but sometimes people have an agenda. Find out what you can as a point of legal fact, then introduce yourself to your new neighbors so they know who is going down the path.

Good luck!

[TomC]

The deed recorded for this transfer in August mentions nothing about a right-of-way or other access rights to the shore. Maybe years ago there was an informal agreement or something, but nothing "legal" appears to have been conveyed with the parcel in question.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Elrockk

who are the Association?

Usually when properties share a deeded waterfront an association is set up to manage the shared waterfront. If it's a public way, then anyone would be able to use it.
Like someone else posted, you need to check your deed first.
Usually, but not aways, there's an HOA fee if you are a member of an association. Someone has to maintain that waterfront lot.

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by TomC

The deed recorded for this transfer in August mentions nothing about a right-of-way or other access rights to the shore. Maybe years ago there was an informal agreement or something, but nothing "legal" appears to have been conveyed with the parcel in question.

That’s what I’m thinking. I didn’t want to burst his bubble by telling him that there was no access shown. I do feel it was a personal agreement years ago and who knows whether it is still valid. That’s why I said to just ask them.

[lagoon]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

That’s what I’m thinking. I didn’t want to burst his bubble by telling him that there was no access shown. I do feel it was a personal agreement years ago and who knows whether it is still valid. That’s why I said to just ask them.

So IF there was an agreement or not and the path has been used over the years that would set up a right of way that can't be extinguished.

[Billy Bob]

Originally Posted by lagoon

So IF there was an agreement or not and the path has been used over the years that would set up a right of way that can't be extinguished.

That’s not true at all. It would be very difficult for a new owner to prove the timelines etc needed to win that one. The new owner gets what is on the deed and that’s it. Adverse Possession will be a non starter.

[Biggd]

It would be in his best interest to find out who takes care of the waterfront property. If it's the town, then it is open to all residents of Meredith.

[camp guy]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

OP: For a definitive answer hire a local real estate attorney to look into it.

This is the best answer; this is the simplest answer; this is the only answer. The OP should follow Mr. V advice, the rest of the posts are simply personal opinions with no concrete value. For what it is worth, this is just my humble opinion. Go Red Sox!

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by camp guy

This is the best answer; this is the simplest answer; this is the only answer. The OP should follow Mr. V advice, the rest of the posts are simply personal opinions with no concrete value. For what it is worth, this is just my humble opinion. Go Red Sox!

He should have a deed and he should read that first and foremost. If it's not written in the deed, then a lawyer is probably a waste of money unless you're planning to sue the realtor for misrepresentation.
What is in the deed is legal, what's been represented to you when you purchased is questionable.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Biggd

He should have a deed and he should read that first and foremost. If it's not written in the deed, then a lawyer is probably a waste of money unless you're planning to sue the realtor for misrepresentation.
What is in the deed is legal, what's been represented to you when you purchased is questionable.

Agreed! He bought whatever is in the deed…nothing else…everything else is hearsay and has not legal basis.

Just my opinion…

Good luck though!

Dan

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by Elrockk

hello thanks for the add I bought a Home on Meredith Neck Road my property is not Water Front how do I findout if I have access to nearby Cove

Did you have an attorney when home was purchased?

[lagoon]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

That’s not true at all. It would be very difficult for a new owner to prove the timelines etc needed to win that one. The new owner gets what is on the deed and that’s it. Adverse Possession will be a non starter.

Respectfully I disagree. I have been in NH court on this issue and it is clear that if you can demonstrate a right of way it can't be extinguished. That does not mean or show any ownership of the land, just a right of passage.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by lagoon

Respectfully I disagree. I have been in NH court on this issue and it is clear that if you can demonstrate a right of way it can't be extinguished. That does not mean or show any ownership of the land, just a right of passage.

A landowner allowing people to walk on their property and right of way are completely different, right? Isn't the latter a legally deeded protection and the former simply informal?

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[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

Did you have an attorney when home was purchased?

Good point. But no answer so far.

[Billy Bob]

Originally Posted by lagoon

Respectfully I disagree. I have been in NH court on this issue and it is clear that if you can demonstrate a right of way it can't be extinguished. That does not mean or show any ownership of the land, just a right of passage.

The brand new owner, just took possession, will have no way to demonstrate a right of way . They also failed to get anything in writing. This goes nowhere unless the property owner cooperates .

[lagoon]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

That’s not true at all. It would be very difficult for a new owner to prove the timelines etc needed to win that one. The new owner gets what is on the deed and that’s it. Adverse Possession will be a non starter.

It is not adverse possession, and that was not what I was referring to. A right of way can't be extinguished and to prove it you would only to prove passage by your use, or others, that the "path" had been used in the past. Look it up for the State of NH.

[John Mercier]

You might have to provide a link.

I could only find the Adverse Possession statute also.

[Billy Bob]

Originally Posted by lagoon

It is not adverse possession, and that was not what I was referring to. A right of way can't be extinguished and to prove it you would only to prove passage by your use, or others, that the "path" had been used in the past. Look it up for the State of NH.

What do they intend to do with this access they refer to ? What do you do when you get to the end of the path ? I think the next part is they want to sit on a beach or something or then swim in front of the property owners house .
So it sounds like the lakefront people used to be ok with the non lakefront owner coming on over and using the lake. The lakefront owner is no longer ok with the new owner coming on over.

[Billy Bob]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

You might have to provide a link.

I could only find the Adverse Possession statute also.

Obviously he won’t be sending a link because it doesn’t exist. What he is describing is what happens when a property owner allows ski mobiles to cross his property for years and then for one reason or another changes is mind and closes the access. We know how that story ends .

[Elrockk]

Ill have to get up there and talk with my nieghbors Thanks for all the Input

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Elrockk

Ill have to get up there and talk with my nieghbors Thanks for all the Input

By the way, what's your goal with this? Are you hoping to be able to walk down to the water? Have access to the dock(s)? Maintain what might have been an informal agreement? Or are you just trying to figure out what rights you have purchased into?

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[Elrockk]

no plans yet just seeing what my options are

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Elrockk

no plans yet just seeing what my options are

Not to be too much of a bummer, but not great options here...

A stranger comes to your door, says he'd like access to your waterfront, pretty much forever. Hard to imagine anyone thinking anything other than "WTF?"

So maybe try to think of something you could offer him and/or a much smaller ask

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by Elrockk

im at 280 Merideth Neck Road Steve was my Father in Law he has past im looking at Kelly Cove from what i can see looks like a path from my house to the Cove and 2 sunken docks

Is your mother-in-law still alive? Did you buy the house from her or were there other owners in between? What about the property that the path runs through? How long have those people lived there?
When you bought this property, was it your understanding that you had access to the dock in the cove?
I hope you tell us what the outcome is.

[Elrockk]

bought property from my MIL estate shes lived there since late 70s early 80s she passed like 3 years ago

[Elrockk]

we bought the property from my MIL estate she has lived there since late 70s early 80s i remember my FIL saying something about his nieghbor the COLONEL

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Elrockk

we bought the property from my MIL estate she has lived there since late 70s early 80s i remember my FIL saying something about his nieghbor the COLONEL

My FIL built a place in Sanbornton across the street from Lake Winnisquam within a short distance to the public beach. He was very friendly with the guy who owned 200ft of waterfront across the street. He only had a little shack on the property, and he was rarely there because he lived in NY. The guy let us use his waterfront when he wasn't there, but we had no legal right to it.
We'll that guy passed away and my FIL rented his place out until he passed in 2015. His son bought out the other 4 siblings and now lives there. The family still owns the property across the street and still rarely visits but my brother in-law, who now owns the house, has no use of the property because it's all "he said, she said". He has asked and they said no. My FIL never got anything in writing.
You need to find out who owns that piece of property, every piece of property is in someone or some entity's name. You should be able to search it on the town website.
The property that I have deeded rights to is in the name of the first people to build there. So, I guess legally they own it, but I have deeded rights to it along with 2 other homes.

[Descant]

I guess its different on an island. Our neighbors bought in 1953, we came in ~1958. None of those people are alive now. We have a permanent dock and several neighbors have used it over the years when the wind is overwhelming. The closest neighbor uses it routinely, and we have a written agreement acknowledging ownership and permission to use so there is no question of adverse possession. They offered to do some repairs and we declined for the same reason and we did (hired) the repairs ourselves for the same reason. We borrow and replace things like plumbing and electrical supplies and run mutual errands to the mainland. At home (mainland) we have similar neighbors, sharing leftovers, etc. Our (Newfy) dog was trained, with a backpack, to carry items between houses. (Some of you may remember Emily as she was popular in Glendale.) Summary: getting along with neighbors is not so tough--just pretend you're all from New Hampshire and you know where the lines are.. "Good fences..."(Robert Frost)

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Descant

I guess its different on an island. Our neighbors bought in 1953, we came in ~1958. None of those people are alive now. We have a permanent dock and several neighbors have used it over the years when the wind is overwhelming. The closest neighbor uses it routinely, and we have a written agreement acknowledging ownership and permission to use so there is no question of adverse possession. They offered to do some repairs and we declined for the same reason and we did (hired) the repairs ourselves for the same reason. We borrow and replace things like plumbing and electrical supplies and run mutual errands to the mainland. At home (mainland) we have similar neighbors, sharing leftovers, etc. Our (Newfy) dog was trained, with a backpack, to carry items between houses. (Some of you may remember Emily as she was popular in Glendale.) Summary: getting along with neighbors is not so tough--just pretend you're all from New Hampshire and you know where the lines are.. "Good fences..."(Robert Frost)

"we have a written agreement" That's the key right there! But being on an Island I would think would be different.
You have to get along and respect each other's space in such a close-knit community or it would be a miserable experience for everyone.