View Tax

[The Big Kahuna]

The view tax is not just being applied to lake front. For those of us who have mountain and hill side property that has a view of the lake from 1,000 feet and 2 miles, it is costing us plenty in extra taxes. My taxes went up 25%
since someone climed up on my deck to asses my property, I know they did it because they left my ladder up. One week later I got a letter telling me my taxes would be going up since they realized I had a view of the lake!

[Paugus Bay Resident]

It maybe semantics, but there is no view tax. The market value for a property with a view is, based on demand, higher than one without. Simple as that.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

It maybe semantics, but there is no view tax. The market value for a property with a view is, based on demand, higher than one without. Simple as that.

I remember, when the latest realtor approached us about selling our home and how much more we could get for it with its water views.....she said; location, location, location!

Correct me if I am wrong PBR, but isn't that mantra one of the golden rules of real estate?

And remember folks, no "new" money is produced when your valuation increases. When your taxes increase due to increased valuation, someone else in your community is paying less. The average rule in any given year is a third of the properties rise, a third remain neutral and a third decrease.

One of the most common misconseptions in this discussion is that new money is being produced, which simply is not true. But the real reason your taxes continue to rise is simple, the government continues to spend more and more of our money each year.

I do have to confess that there are a lot of town, county and state officials that sit back and relax when people misconstrue the true reason of their escalating tax load, especially when they are attacking the assesor's office and not keeping their eye on the real spenders!

[Paugus Bay Resident]

If supply doesn't outstrips demand (as is the case now), prices fall. If there is a demand for "view" properties the price will go up. Just market economics. I deal with this all the time (on both the buy and sell side), and what is interesting is that people will complain that their tax assessment is to high, but when they go to sell its too low The issue we have at the moment is that most assessments were done a year ago in a somewhat different market. Will they go down to reflect today's reality? I doubt it. Will property values continue to increase in the long run? Sure. True, market value doesn't mean anything until one sells (unless you're the state) , but it is what it is.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

It maybe semantics, but there is no view tax. The market value for a property with a view is, based on demand, higher than one without. Simple as that.

The assessing companies make it seem like there are taxes for stuff like water front and view by the way they calculate market value. They don't have recent sales data for every house so they find a comparable house and apply formulas. Some of these adjust for number of bathrooms, bedrooms and square footage. But some adjust for waterfront, views and other desirable locations.

Saying we have a view tax is like saying we have a toilet tax.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

An interesting statistic is to look at is sale price as a percent of assessed value. Usually its a few (to more percent) over. Very seldom is it less.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by jrc

...Saying we have a view tax is like saying we have a toilet tax...

Simply stated and exactly to the point!

Let me take a moment and get on my political soapbox and say that I find the Thompson Family's position, especially that of Tommy Thompson, interestingly ironic!

Remember Tom Thompson's father, the late Governor Meldrim Thompson, is recognized as the grandfather of this current proprty tax system and was one of its strongest supporters. He was the proponent of the "no new taxes" pledge that has been the bain of many a politician in this State for decades.

Now along comes his descendants livid about a system that their family helped create! Can you say hypocrisy?

It once again reminds me of that old and wise adage: The only fair tax is the tax the other guy pays!

Remember, as already stated here previously; year after year after year the State of New Hampshire, property tax issue & all, places the least amount of tax burden on its citizens. Its one of the primary reasons that businesses, tourists and out-of-staters continue to flock here in record numbers. I'm all for keeping the New Hampshire advantage intact and reminding everyone that no one is forcing you to come here, but we truly do appreciate it when you do!

There, I feel better....I'm stepping back down now!

Think snow!

Skip

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Skip

It once again reminds me of that old and wise adage: The only fair tax is the tax the other guy pays!

Remember, as already stated here previously; year after year after year the State of New Hampshire, property tax issue & all, places the least amount of tax burden on its citizens. Its one of the primary reasons that businesses, tourists and out-of-staters continue to flock here in record numbers. I'm all for keeping the New Hampshire advantage intact and reminding everyone that no one is forcing you to come here, but we truly do appreciate it when you do!

There, I feel better....I'm stepping back down now!

Skip

Understand your point; but the Hopkinton Apple Farm situation is wrong.

Originally Posted by online NH Union Leader

Nov 17, 11:27 AM EST
N.H. orchard falling victim to view tax
HOPKINTON, N.H. (AP) -- Gould Hill Orchard, which dates to 1764, could be sold to developers, its owners unable to absorb $200 per day in property taxes based partly on the value of its view.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

There, I, too, feel better....I'm stepping back down now!

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Skip

Simply stated and exactly to the point!
{snip}

It once again reminds me of that old and wise adage: The only fair tax is the tax the other guy pays!

Remember, as already stated here previously; year after year after year the State of New Hampshire, property tax issue & all, places the least amount of tax burden on its citizens. Its one of the primary reasons that businesses, tourists and out-of-staters continue to flock here in record numbers. I'm all for keeping the New Hampshire advantage intact and reminding everyone that no one is forcing you to come here, but we truly do appreciate it when you do!

There, I feel better....I'm stepping back down now!

Think snow!

Skip

Since the soapbox is out and unoccupied ...

While there's some truth to the idea that "nobody's forcing you to come" I'd balance that with some thoughts. First, where would we all be if our country's forefathers had given in to the same rationale ? King George might have said "Don't like my ruinous taxes ? Want some say in the matter ? Well then nobody's forcing you to stay in New England. Sell your farms, homes, businesses and come back to England proper." I know I'm glad such thinking didn't prevail.

Second it sure sounds like that statement leaves unsaid but implied, "Yes out of state, seasonal use, taxpayers are getting screwed" but leave if you want to. Why don't we all just admit that instead of trying to offer up a defense ? Same thing applies to NH residents working in MA and paying too much income tax. I'm not holding my breath that either legislature will act to make their policies more fair since they have no reason, other than moral ones, to change it and many practical ones not too. Morality loses to practicality most every time. Hence the old adage.

Lastly, and more practically, even NH residents should be wary of having seasonal people pay more than their fair share. This free flow of OPM from the disenfranchised generally results in an liberal attitude to spending and, as has been correctly mentioned previously in this thread, spending should be the real concern. Taxes follow spending. While local residents get a break due to the OPM, they don't get off complete unharmed. Their taxes go up as well. TANSTAAFL I say (true even when someone else buys your lunch).

Oh yeah, before I step off the soap box, I find it curious that the rationale of "If you don't like, move" isn't followed by NH when it comes to school spending. Why isn't "Don't like the school spending in this town, move then" the answer (I hear MA has some good public schools). Sounds like it is time to change the State constitution.

[TomC]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

....snip... "Yes out of state, seasonal use, taxpayers are getting screwed" but leave if you want to. Why don't we all just admit that instead of trying to offer up a defense ?

The other side of this (objections by non-voting seasonal taxpayers) issue which I find amusing: when this topic arose one of the dozens of times before, the NH resident sentiment generally was: sell and go, or move up and vote... well the moving up and vote part is coming true and the liberal MA voting record is going with it...

last week there was all sorts of howling by NH natives that the political climate was changing. Gee, who needs a crystal ball to see that one coming?

if the non-residents could have a voice on the local/town tax process (budgets and spending) they might not "move up and vote" in the State government..

The same idea works in reverse on the "live in NH, work in MA" issue. I know many individuals who take a job in NH for equivalent salary as they got in MA because thats a 5.3% raise in reality. they take their spending money with them and that hurts the MA state economy.

[onthebay]

We have been visiting the lake for the past 15 years and have owned and paid taxes on a condo for the past 10 years. My property tax for the condo is more than my primary home in Mass.
I have always been charged for my fishing license and snowmobile registrations at an out of state rate.(could never understand that one)
We are finally building our dream house by the lake (subject to a major tax bill) and plan on moving up in the spring when my daughter graduates high school. My daughter wants to attend UNH where I will be charged almost double because she will be considered and out of state resident when she applied.
My company is located in Mass. and because of its structure I will still be paying full income and corporate taxes to Mass. I will also have a 1 1/2 hour commute each way.
Even with all this I still can't wait...

[onthebay]

Just to let you know. I am not a liberal. Devall Patrick was the last straw.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by onthebay

Just to let you know. I am not a liberal. Devall Patrick was the last straw.

Congratulations on your new home. Please get active in the local politics of your town and don't forget the rest of us "non-voting taxpayers"

*not a liberal either, waiting for my "Don't blame me, I voted for muffy" bumper sticker.

[JDeere]

Since a few of you folks like to whine about not having the right to vote in a state that you do not live full time can you show me what states in the US allow you to be a resident of one state and still vote in your second home location?

In SC I believe you pay a higher tax rate as a non-resident and some fish and game activities are restricted on those who are not residents.

I am sure there are other…………maybe Florida…………..if you are a resident you can homestead, fish without a license from land.

I am sure every state treats it residents differently than non-residents. So what?! I personally did not like MA or its politics (Kennedy, Kerry, Barney etc.) so I moved. Now I have the privilege of paying MA income tax but that is just the way it works. If I do not like it I can find a job in NH!

Stop whining our state of NH does a very good job of dealing with its funding issues and needs no advice from south of the border on how to run its affairs. With the second lowest tax burden in the country we are doing just fine, thank you.

[secondcurve]

JDeere:

I think your last comment hit the nail on the head. I am not sure if NH actually has the second lowest tax burden in the country, but it is certainly on the low end of the spectrum. Be thankful you live/vacation in an awesome part of the country. Oh, and by the way, if this forum were given the authority to change the tax code/budgeting regulations of the state we could spend the next 1000 years re-configuring things and I guaranty we couldn't get a majority of the board members to agree on a new plan, since a positive change in my favor must be offset by a negative change to someone else.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

...I am not sure if NH actually has the second lowest tax burden in the country, but it is certainly on the low end of the spectrum. Be thankful you live/vacation in an awesome part of the country...

Actually in New Hampshire, on a per capita basis, New Hampshire taxes its citizen the least when compared to any other state in the nation.

I am all for keeping the New Hampshire advantage, as once again pledged to by our recently elected Governor and the majority of the folks just elected/re-elected to office in Concord!

[SteveA]

Check out the attached page from the Tax Foundation

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/347.html

Use the scroll bar to get to NH.

For the last year reported (2004) we were number 48 out of the 50 states. In this case, that makes us the 3rd biggest "Donor" State

New Hampshire historically has been near the top of the list that ranks how many Federal Tax dollars are sent to Washington in relation to what the Federal Government spends, or sends back to the state.

NH gets back about 50 cents on the dollar, while Arizona gets about $2.00 back on each dollar sent.

I've written to both Senators and both Congressman suggesting they may want to look around Washington DC and see if they can find a way to get a little more back for what we send.

Guess how many replies I got back?

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

My taxes went up 25%
!

Mine have gone up 55% in Bedford NH since last year and have neither a view or waterfront.New high school,ughh!

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Mine have gone up 55% in Bedford NH since last year and have neither a view or waterfront.New high school,ughh!

Just think, not only is Laconia building a new middle school, we have a lake and views too. Maybe we should just sign the houses over to the city now and beat the rush.

[The Big Kahuna]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Mine have gone up 55% in Bedford NH since last year and have neither a view or waterfront.New high school,ughh!

My full time residence is in Bedford and I feel your pain. I am paying $400 more in taxes this year over last year, but I have a pond I can see when the leaves fall off the trees in my back yard.

[Bear Islander]

One thing you CAN do to lower your property taxes is get a copy of the assessing information from your town. Many islanders did that last summer and found mistakes. An unbuildable second lot taxed as buildable, bedrooms and a fireplace that doesn't exist, a tiny lean-to taxed as an outbuilding.

The tax is based on market value, just make sure they are using the correct information.

[The Big Kahuna]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

One thing you CAN do to lower your property taxes is get a copy of the assessing information from your town. Many islanders did that last summer and found mistakes. An unbuildable second lot taxed as buildable, bedrooms and a fireplace that doesn't exist, a tiny lean-to taxed as an outbuilding.

The tax is based on market value, just make sure they are using the correct information.

I thought so too, I went to the Town Hall and asked to look at the assestment and how they came about the numbers. Turns out my house may have been under valued, now they want to come out and take another look, they never would have reviewed it if I had not gone in asking questions.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

I thought so too, I went to the Town Hall and asked to look at the assestment and how they came about the numbers. Turns out my house may have been under valued, now they want to come out and take another look, they never would have reviewed it if I had not gone in asking questions.

Squeaky wheel gets the oil...

Thoughts before actions would be a better motto.

That $400 increase may really cause you to "feel my pain" and then some.

How about the pain of the Hopkinton apple farm owner - $200 a day for his new property taxes? His real pain would probably cause you a stroke...

Originally Posted by NH Union Leader online By SCOTT BROOKS Union Leader Staff Friday, Nov. 17, 2006

Titanic tax bill sinking Hopkinton orchard
Erick Leadbeater said his property taxes quadrupled in the town's recent readjustments. Taxes on the hilltop apple orchard jumped about $50,000 per year, he said.
http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...5-535e4be2387f

[MJM]

Latest article.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...f-82a36cc374fe

It strikes me as odd: reading this and other related articles, one would think this is a new concept and will be a dramatic additional fee. But reading all the posts on the boards, it seems clear this is nothing new, and the value of the view is basically captured in the assessment anyway.