Real Estate Tax Abatements

Fishy Cover · 11-14-2006, 04:30 PM

Like many of you I am doing my homework and preparing to file an abatement of the taxes on my Meredith waterfront property, and I thought that forum participants would all benefit from an exchange of information on the subject. I believe that abatement requests must be submitted by March 1, 2007 if the town mails tax bills before Dec 31, 2006.

My understanding is that there are only two approaches that will be successful:

A) Actual comparable real estate sales differ substantially from the assessed value, or
B) There is an error in the assessment data for your property, such as incorrect building or lot size.

What I'm wondering is:

A) Are there any other approaches that have worked in the past?
B) What if there are no comparable sales? Just how close does a property have to be to be considered a comparable sale? Can I use a property in the next town? Do I need an appraisal and will an appraisal be considered adequate?

I hope that other forum readers will share their experience and benefit from this shared experience.

ITD · 11-14-2006, 05:09 PM

Fishy,

In my case in Moultonboro the appraiser had just taken the outside measurements of the house and guessed what was inside. I went to a "hearing" that they were having after they had mailed out the new assessment armed with my own inside measurements, sketches and pictures. The gentleman redid the appraisal on the spot, I received a corrected assessment in the mail a month later. If you have not done so yet, I would get a copy of what the assessor is using to value the property and make sure that all the information is correct, square footage, finished vs. unfinished and so on. In my experience this is where you will probably have the best luck. As far as comparables go someone else should be able to answer that question.

TomC · 11-14-2006, 07:06 PM

...when the appraisal reads: Land $475K, Bldg: $70K...

Weirs guy · 11-14-2006, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomC

...when the appraisal reads: Land $475K, Bldg: $70K...

Try telling them you have a cemetary and toxic waste site on the property?

WeirsBeachBoater · 11-14-2006, 07:31 PM

Taxed on water access, that is not really legal to use!!!!!!

playinghooky · 11-14-2006, 09:30 PM

I questioned my assessment in Alton. I discussed how they arrived at the value with the tax assessor. He explained that the appraiser used 3 comprable houses that were sold around the time of the assessment. These houses were then compared to my property to come up with a value. He actually gave me the addresses and prices sold for the properties used in my assessment. The only adjustment that they agreed to make was that my house was much older than what they had listed so that affected the depreciation %. When that was corrected it lowered my assessed value by around $5,000. The assessor was very cooperative and listened to what I had to say. You usually can't find an exect comprable sale so adjustments must be made.
I don't think that getting an appraisal of your property will help your cause.

fatlazyless · 11-15-2006, 06:26 AM

Sometimes, people like to knock on the Realtors and say they are overpaid with their five or six percent commissions but they are a good source of abatement info.
Two different agents at two local companies, C-21 Lakes Region, and Caldwell Banker in Moultonborough were happy to supply me with copies of residential property listings showing at what price recent homes, comparable to my humble cottage, have sold. They were happy to do it, and it was no big deal to get the info as all the Realtors are very information-puter organized. They both agreed that my cottage was over assessed by about 25% from what Meredith had for a value. Realtors like to talk with potential sellers, and there's no need to mask that you are not interested in selling and are there only for the free abatement info comps. It's called 'picking their brains' and they know all about it.

I understand that getting your local town to agree to a substantially lower value of say 25% is totally 'another issue' even when armed with comparable sales prices.

Anyone have any experience with appealing to the state board in Concord, or to the local superior court, for a too high assessment?

onthebay · 11-15-2006, 09:55 AM

We are building along the tracks on Paugus Bay and are trying to guestimate what our tax liability will be when finished. Someone mentioned to us that there is a tax credit because we are situated alongside an active railway, even if it is the scenic train from the Weirs.
Does anyone else have any similar experience. I know there are a number of houses along the bay and up in Merideth with a similar situation.Thanks

Fishy Cover · 11-17-2006, 02:05 PM

The Citizen recently reported that the Meredith Tax rate has decreased from $16.25 per thousand to $10.74 per thousand as a result of the recent revaulation. A closer look at the numbers reveals that there actually is an increase of 7.7%. Here's why:

Assume a modest property that was assessed at $500,000 before revaluation and increased exactly by 63%, the rate by which the town's total valuation increased. After revaluation the assessment would be ($500,000*1.63 =) $815,000.

At the old tax rate and assessment this property owner would pay (500 x $16.25=) $8,125. At the new tax rate and assessment this property owner would pay (815 x $10.74=) $8,753. This is for a property that is the same proportional share before and after the revaluation.

This is an increase in taxes of $628 or 7.7%. The Citizen quoted Assessor Jim Commerford as saying "If we didn't have the revaluation, I'm sure the tax rate would have gone up". Does he think it did not go up? While it is true that the rate per se decreased this camouflaged an increase and I think that this way of presenting this information is deceptive and the public deserves a truthful explanation not this kind of spin.

kunamola · 11-17-2006, 09:38 PM

If you think the value is too high I would say challenge it. On a boathouse property I own in Tuftonboro they made a huge (and I do mean huge) error in value. The process for challenging the figures does work but it requires time and effort on the property owners part even when the town and its contractors make the mistake.

One thing that really got me was the extra value for cathedral ceilings, which included a 60 year old cabin which had never had any ceiling put in besides the roof. Cathedral ceiling? I can imagine my dad laughing to himself in his grave!! To think that a lack of enough money 60 years ago to put in a real ceiling ends up being taxed at a higher rate!

fatlazyless · 11-18-2006, 07:04 AM

Today's Nov 18, www.unionleader.com has a human interest type article about what people down in Manchester think about their new tax assessments. "If I could sell this house for what they say its worth...." Seems like 2006 could be a new New Hampshire high for property tax pain......oof ugh oof ouchy ouch.....if that's possible!

Long Island Baba · 11-18-2006, 08:45 PM

Yes, you must get as much of the detail as you can from the town/assessor especially with regard to "construction quality". This plays into the value of the final sq. ft. they end up using to put a value on your home. Of course you need to check the number of bathrooms, if there is a hearth, a porch, the sq. ft. of your deck, etc. but if you have a "Home Depot" house of "average" construction vs. a custom-built "better" construction, or a run-down camp, it all plays into setting the value. Sure, it's subjective like comparisons, but the more ammo you have, the better. It's a little element in the formula that can shift things quite easily. Look for it and make sure it's correct.

Second, please also check with your Town Hall re: veteran, elderly or disability tax credits. Do you realize that most towns now give $500 for a veteran's tax credit. Yes, CREDIT on the tax bill! Nice action! Once the veteran's credit is linked onto your property, it comes automatically thereafter and your non-veteran spouse gets to keep it after you die. Check out the rules for your town...each is different.

Resident 2B · 11-18-2006, 11:08 PM

We have a place in Laconia. When I heard of the vereran's abatement, I asked about it at the assessors office.

Another non-resident hidden tax!

You have to be a fulltime resident to get the veterans' abatement!

Unbelieveable!

I always thought New Hampshire was part of the United States and that I was serving the whole country while in Vietnam. But, I guess I was not serving New Hampshire or that New Hampshire was not part of the United States when the Vietnam war was going on, at least in the opinion of the Laconia assessors.

What an embarassment! New Hampshire voters, this is something you should be addressing!

Skip · 11-19-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

We have a place in Laconia. When I heard of the vereran's abatement, I asked about it at the assessors office.

Another non-resident hidden tax!

You have to be a fulltime resident to get the veterans' abatement!

Unbelieveable!

I always thought New Hampshire was part of the United States and that I was serving the whole country while in Vietnam. But, I guess I was not serving New Hampshire or that New Hampshire was not part of the United States when the Vietnam war was going on, at least in the opinion of the Laconia assessors.

What an embarassment! New Hampshire voters, this is something you should be addressing!

It is not the opinion of the Laconia assessors in question here, it is simply New Hampshire State RSA 72:28.

Simply stated, by State law, certain New Hampshire resident veterans (or their surviving widow) receive an annual property tax abatement of $50. Local government entities can increase this stipend, but the cannot extend the coverage to non-residents. The folks in Laconia are simply following long standing New Hampshire State law.

For those of you that may be curious in Resident 2B's native state to the south the veteran's tax exemption is only available to that State's residents and actually has more stringent residency requirements than what is found here in the great State of New Hampshire!

For everyone's review:

TITLE V
TAXATION
CHAPTER 72
PERSONS AND PROPERTY LIABLE TO TAXATION
Property Taxes
Section 72:28
72:28 Standard and Optional Veterans' Tax Credit. –
I. The standard veterans' tax credit shall be $50.
II. The optional veterans' tax credit, upon adoption by a city or town pursuant to RSA 72:27-a, shall be an amount from $51 up to $500. The optional veterans' tax credit shall replace the standard veterans' tax credit in its entirety and shall not be in addition thereto.
III. Either the standard veterans' tax credit or the optional veterans' tax credit shall be subtracted each year from the property tax on the veteran's residential property. However, the surviving spouse of a resident who suffered a service-connected death may have the amount subtracted from the property tax on any real property in the same municipality where the surviving spouse is a resident.
IV. The following persons shall qualify for the standard veterans' tax credit or the optional veterans' tax credit:
(a) Every resident of this state who served not less than 90 days in the armed forces of the United States in any qualifying war or armed conflict listed in this section and was honorably discharged or an officer honorably separated from service; or the spouse or surviving spouse of such resident;
(b) Every resident of this state who was terminated from the armed forces because of service-connected disability; or the surviving spouse of such resident; and
(c) The surviving spouse of any resident who suffered a service-connected death.
V. Service in a qualifying war or armed conflict shall be as follows:
(a) ""World War I'' between April 6, 1917 and November 11, 1918, extended to April 1, 1920 for service in Russia; provided that military or naval service on or after November 12, 1918 and before July 2, 1921, where there was prior service between April 6, 1917 and November 11, 1918 shall be considered as World War I service;
(b) ""World War II'' between December 7, 1941 and December 31, 1946;
(c) ""Korean Conflict'' between June 25, 1950 and January 31, 1955;
(d) ""Vietnam Conflict'' between December 22, 1961 and May 7, 1975;
(e) ""Vietnam Conflict'' between July 1, 1958 and December 22, 1961, if the resident earned the Vietnam service medal or the armed forces expeditionary medal;
(f) ""Persian Gulf War'' between August 2, 1990 and the date thereafter prescribed by Presidential proclamation or by law; and
(g) Any other war or armed conflict that has occurred since May 8, 1975, and in which the resident earned an armed forces expeditionary medal or theater of operations service medal.

SIKSUKR · 11-20-2006, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Today's Nov 18, www.unionleader.com has a human interest type article about what people down in Manchester think about their new tax assessments. "If I could sell this house for what they say its worth...." Seems like 2006 could be a new New Hampshire high for property tax pain......oof ugh oof ouchy ouch.....if that's possible!

You can put me in that boat also FLL.According to the city I am a very rich man,or would be if I could sell my property for they evaluated it at.It's the old"theres good news and bad news".Nice to see my property could be pretty valuable but my gosh,the amount of those tax increases are unbelievable!

milroy · 11-21-2006, 05:59 PM

Just came across your abatement questions and as one who has represented lakefront owners before their tax assessors and the NH Board of Tax and Land Appeals I can offer a little more advice. Check the assessments of all properties that are similar to yours. If all being equal, and it rarely is, the other properties are assessed less than yours then you have a case based on what the state considers "disproportionality". This is in addition to trying to find sales of similar properties that help to demonstrate the value of your property. Remember though that if this is a current assessment then you are looking at the value as of April 1, 2006 and sales should be reasonably near and prior to that date. I don't believe that folks should have to spend a lot of money to get a fair assessment, and most towns are willing to work with taxpayers to insure that their assessments are fair, so I wouldn't spend much on an appraisal at this level. If you are not satisfied with the town's response you can then appeal to the Board of Tax and Land Appeals, or to Superior Court. A town's selectmen, or assessor can represent the town before the tax board, but they need to hire a lawyer to represent them in Superior Court, so they tend to be more receptive to compromise once the legal clock starts ticking. A citizen can file a "pro se" appeal in court, might be a good idea to have a lawyer draft the action though. You will also be well advised to have a good solid appraisal at this level.

Weekend Pundit · 11-23-2006, 10:49 AM

Our property was revalued back in April and we saw our property value jump 20% in one year! We bought the place in April 2005 for close to the assessed value at the time (only $7K difference).

I went to the assessor's office and had them pull the card for our property. Immediately I saw a number of errors, including the fact that they had overestimated the amount of living space in the house by 300 sq ft, said one of our decks was three times its actual size, and had the wrong type of heating system. That dropped our assessment a little, but we're still overvalued.

I've been checking the sales of all of homes in our town since the beginning of the year and have found quite a few sales prices are well below the assessed value. Some were sold with as little as 17% difference and one was sold at 31% below its assessed value. When looking at the 2005 assessed values I saw that the 2006 sales prices were more in line with those than with the 2006 assessments.

You know it's bad when even some of the selectmen in our town are saying there's something wrong with the assessments.

11-14-2006, 04:30 PM	#1
Fishy Cover Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 134 Thanks: 10 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Real Estate Tax Abatements Like many of you I am doing my homework and preparing to file an abatement of the taxes on my Meredith waterfront property, and I thought that forum participants would all benefit from an exchange of information on the subject. I believe that abatement requests must be submitted by March 1, 2007 if the town mails tax bills before Dec 31, 2006. My understanding is that there are only two approaches that will be successful: A) Actual comparable real estate sales differ substantially from the assessed value, or B) There is an error in the assessment data for your property, such as incorrect building or lot size. What I'm wondering is: A) Are there any other approaches that have worked in the past? B) What if there are no comparable sales? Just how close does a property have to be to be considered a comparable sale? Can I use a property in the next town? Do I need an appraisal and will an appraisal be considered adequate? I hope that other forum readers will share their experience and benefit from this shared experience.

11-14-2006, 07:06 PM	#3
TomC Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 657 Thanks: 19 Thanked 81 Times in 53 Posts	what you have inside your house doesn't change things much.. ...when the appraisal reads: Land $475K, Bldg: $70K...

11-14-2006, 07:31 PM	#5
WeirsBeachBoater Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 709 Blog Entries: 9 Thanks: 39 Thanked 148 Times in 65 Posts	How about this one....... Taxed on water access, that is not really legal to use!!!!!!

11-14-2006, 09:30 PM	#6
playinghooky Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 61 Thanks: 7 Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts	Tax Assessment I questioned my assessment in Alton. I discussed how they arrived at the value with the tax assessor. He explained that the appraiser used 3 comprable houses that were sold around the time of the assessment. These houses were then compared to my property to come up with a value. He actually gave me the addresses and prices sold for the properties used in my assessment. The only adjustment that they agreed to make was that my house was much older than what they had listed so that affected the depreciation %. When that was corrected it lowered my assessed value by around $5,000. The assessor was very cooperative and listened to what I had to say. You usually can't find an exect comprable sale so adjustments must be made. I don't think that getting an appraisal of your property will help your cause.

11-15-2006, 06:26 AM	#7
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,729 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,003 Times in 731 Posts	...help from local Realtor Sometimes, people like to knock on the Realtors and say they are overpaid with their five or six percent commissions but they are a good source of abatement info. Two different agents at two local companies, C-21 Lakes Region, and Caldwell Banker in Moultonborough were happy to supply me with copies of residential property listings showing at what price recent homes, comparable to my humble cottage, have sold. They were happy to do it, and it was no big deal to get the info as all the Realtors are very information-puter organized. They both agreed that my cottage was over assessed by about 25% from what Meredith had for a value. Realtors like to talk with potential sellers, and there's no need to mask that you are not interested in selling and are there only for the free abatement info comps. It's called 'picking their brains' and they know all about it. I understand that getting your local town to agree to a substantially lower value of say 25% is totally 'another issue' even when armed with comparable sales prices. Anyone have any experience with appealing to the state board in Concord, or to the local superior court, for a too high assessment?

11-14-2006, 05:09 PM	#2
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 476 Thanked 691 Times in 387 Posts	Fishy, In my case in Moultonboro the appraiser had just taken the outside measurements of the house and guessed what was inside. I went to a "hearing" that they were having after they had mailed out the new assessment armed with my own inside measurements, sketches and pictures. The gentleman redid the appraisal on the spot, I received a corrected assessment in the mail a month later. If you have not done so yet, I would get a copy of what the assessor is using to value the property and make sure that all the information is correct, square footage, finished vs. unfinished and so on. In my experience this is where you will probably have the best luck. As far as comparables go someone else should be able to answer that question.

11-15-2006, 09:55 AM	#8
onthebay Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Tax Break for being on the wrong side of the tracks We are building along the tracks on Paugus Bay and are trying to guestimate what our tax liability will be when finished. Someone mentioned to us that there is a tax credit because we are situated alongside an active railway, even if it is the scenic train from the Weirs. Does anyone else have any similar experience. I know there are a number of houses along the bay and up in Merideth with a similar situation.Thanks

11-17-2006, 02:05 PM	#9
Fishy Cover Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 134 Thanks: 10 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Meredith tax rate actually increased The Citizen recently reported that the Meredith Tax rate has decreased from $16.25 per thousand to $10.74 per thousand as a result of the recent revaulation. A closer look at the numbers reveals that there actually is an increase of 7.7%. Here's why: Assume a modest property that was assessed at $500,000 before revaluation and increased exactly by 63%, the rate by which the town's total valuation increased. After revaluation the assessment would be ($500,000*1.63 =) $815,000. At the old tax rate and assessment this property owner would pay (500 x $16.25=) $8,125. At the new tax rate and assessment this property owner would pay (815 x $10.74=) $8,753. This is for a property that is the same proportional share before and after the revaluation. This is an increase in taxes of $628 or 7.7%. The Citizen quoted Assessor Jim Commerford as saying "If we didn't have the revaluation, I'm sure the tax rate would have gone up". Does he think it did not go up? While it is true that the rate per se decreased this camouflaged an increase and I think that this way of presenting this information is deceptive and the public deserves a truthful explanation not this kind of spin.

11-17-2006, 09:38 PM	#10
kunamola Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Virginia and Melvin Village, NH Posts: 44 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	go for it If you think the value is too high I would say challenge it. On a boathouse property I own in Tuftonboro they made a huge (and I do mean huge) error in value. The process for challenging the figures does work but it requires time and effort on the property owners part even when the town and its contractors make the mistake. One thing that really got me was the extra value for cathedral ceilings, which included a 60 year old cabin which had never had any ceiling put in besides the roof. Cathedral ceiling? I can imagine my dad laughing to himself in his grave!! To think that a lack of enough money 60 years ago to put in a real ceiling ends up being taxed at a higher rate!

11-18-2006, 07:04 AM	#11
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,729 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,003 Times in 731 Posts	...in today's paper Today's Nov 18, www.unionleader.com has a human interest type article about what people down in Manchester think about their new tax assessments. "If I could sell this house for what they say its worth...." Seems like 2006 could be a new New Hampshire high for property tax pain......oof ugh oof ouchy ouch.....if that's possible!

11-18-2006, 08:45 PM	#12
Long Island Baba Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 78 Thanks: 1 Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts	Add'l Tax Stuff Yes, you must get as much of the detail as you can from the town/assessor especially with regard to "construction quality". This plays into the value of the final sq. ft. they end up using to put a value on your home. Of course you need to check the number of bathrooms, if there is a hearth, a porch, the sq. ft. of your deck, etc. but if you have a "Home Depot" house of "average" construction vs. a custom-built "better" construction, or a run-down camp, it all plays into setting the value. Sure, it's subjective like comparisons, but the more ammo you have, the better. It's a little element in the formula that can shift things quite easily. Look for it and make sure it's correct. Second, please also check with your Town Hall re: veteran, elderly or disability tax credits. Do you realize that most towns now give $500 for a veteran's tax credit. Yes, CREDIT on the tax bill! Nice action! Once the veteran's credit is linked onto your property, it comes automatically thereafter and your non-veteran spouse gets to keep it after you die. Check out the rules for your town...each is different.

11-18-2006, 11:08 PM	#13
Resident 2B Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Shore, MA Posts: 1,357 Thanks: 993 Thanked 313 Times in 163 Posts	Veterans Have to be Fulltime Residents! We have a place in Laconia. When I heard of the vereran's abatement, I asked about it at the assessors office. Another non-resident hidden tax! You have to be a fulltime resident to get the veterans' abatement! Unbelieveable! I always thought New Hampshire was part of the United States and that I was serving the whole country while in Vietnam. But, I guess I was not serving New Hampshire or that New Hampshire was not part of the United States when the Vietnam war was going on, at least in the opinion of the Laconia assessors. What an embarassment! New Hampshire voters, this is something you should be addressing!

11-21-2006, 05:59 PM	#16
milroy Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tax appeals Just came across your abatement questions and as one who has represented lakefront owners before their tax assessors and the NH Board of Tax and Land Appeals I can offer a little more advice. Check the assessments of all properties that are similar to yours. If all being equal, and it rarely is, the other properties are assessed less than yours then you have a case based on what the state considers "disproportionality". This is in addition to trying to find sales of similar properties that help to demonstrate the value of your property. Remember though that if this is a current assessment then you are looking at the value as of April 1, 2006 and sales should be reasonably near and prior to that date. I don't believe that folks should have to spend a lot of money to get a fair assessment, and most towns are willing to work with taxpayers to insure that their assessments are fair, so I wouldn't spend much on an appraisal at this level. If you are not satisfied with the town's response you can then appeal to the Board of Tax and Land Appeals, or to Superior Court. A town's selectmen, or assessor can represent the town before the tax board, but they need to hire a lawyer to represent them in Superior Court, so they tend to be more receptive to compromise once the legal clock starts ticking. A citizen can file a "pro se" appeal in court, might be a good idea to have a lawyer draft the action though. You will also be well advised to have a good solid appraisal at this level.

11-23-2006, 10:49 AM	#17
Weekend Pundit Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 345 Thanks: 26 Thanked 69 Times in 42 Posts	Recent revaluation Our property was revalued back in April and we saw our property value jump 20% in one year! We bought the place in April 2005 for close to the assessed value at the time (only $7K difference). I went to the assessor's office and had them pull the card for our property. Immediately I saw a number of errors, including the fact that they had overestimated the amount of living space in the house by 300 sq ft, said one of our decks was three times its actual size, and had the wrong type of heating system. That dropped our assessment a little, but we're still overvalued. I've been checking the sales of all of homes in our town since the beginning of the year and have found quite a few sales prices are well below the assessed value. Some were sold with as little as 17% difference and one was sold at 31% below its assessed value. When looking at the 2005 assessed values I saw that the 2006 sales prices were more in line with those than with the 2006 assessments. You know it's bad when even some of the selectmen in our town are saying there's something wrong with the assessments.