water pump troubleshooting input

[Garcia]

A couple weeks ago I lost water pressure. I replaced the pressure tank two years ago and it seems fine. The pump is at least 25 years old, maybe older. Once pressure is lost it takes a long time for the water to start flowing again. When the water does start to flow, it's warm, leaving me to believe the pump is working too hard and heating up the water. It doesn't maintain pressure. I don't think there is a leak anywhere and everything has been working great until this suddenly happened. There's an external pressure switch which does seem to be functioning properly.

I am guessing the old pump is past it's prime (pun intended!) and needs to be replaced. Before I do so, anyone have any input? Am I on the right track?

[chocophile]

Do you have a well, or do you draw water from the lake? Do you have a pressure gauge upstream of the pump?

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by chocophile

Do you have a well, or do you draw water from the lake? Do you have a pressure gauge upstream of the pump?

From the lake - it's a Sears shallow jet well pump. There is not a pressure gauge anywhere on the system.

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by Garcia

From the lake - it's a Sears shallow jet well pump. There is not a pressure gauge anywhere on the system.

It sounds like the foot valve is broken, dirty or stuck. The foot valve is essentially a 1 way check valve that allows water to go in but not drain back. It helps keep the prime in the pump. Not sure if your pump has an external foot valve or if it's internal to the pump.

[Descant]

We used to have a jet pump and replaced it every 10-12 years. Some time ago, we switched to a well pump that is located offshore in 10' of water. Never fails and we never have to listen to it. Time to upgrade.

[Garcia]

I checked the foot valve and cleaned out the algae that was in in. Then, I went ahead and changed it anyway, just in case. It didn't make anything worse, but did not fix the problem.

I love the idea of a well pump but having electricity so close to where people swim makes me nervous. I know people do it, and it would certainly be easier to open in the spring, close in the fall, and eliminate noise. Is my fear of electricity in the water irrational?

[Descant]

You can buy an alarm that floats and is triggered by stray electricity in the water. Maybe somebody here has related experience? I'm surprised that marinas where the docks all have electricity don't seem to use these.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I checked the foot valve and cleaned out the algae that was in in. Then, I went ahead and changed it anyway, just in case. It didn't make anything worse, but did not fix the problem.

I love the idea of a well pump but having electricity so close to where people swim makes me nervous. I know people do it, and it would certainly be easier to open in the spring, close in the fall, and eliminate noise. Is my fear of electricity in the water irrational?

We had one for years with no issues. Much easier for opening and closing.

[loonguy]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I checked the foot valve and cleaned out the algae that was in in. Then, I went ahead and changed it anyway, just in case. It didn't make anything worse, but did not fix the problem.

I love the idea of a well pump but having electricity so close to where people swim makes me nervous. I know people do it, and it would certainly be easier to open in the spring, close in the fall, and eliminate noise. Is my fear of electricity in the water irrational?

No, not irrational. Our well pump is on land away from the lake. We had to replace it a couple of years ago because it failed after about 30 years. We used American Water Systems for the replacement and were pleased with their work. I do not know the details regarding water well pump and land well pump otherwise.

[John Mercier]

Damaged Impeller?

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Damaged Impeller?

I have not taken the pump apart yet to see. Good suggestion

[TiltonBB]

Are you sure that the intake line from the water is not compromised? It could be losing the prime through a leak in the intake line.

If you have a good foot valve you could put some air pressure to the intake line and look for bubbles where it is below the water.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Charlie T

It sounds like the foot valve is broken, dirty or stuck. The foot valve is essentially a 1 way check valve that allows water to go in but not drain back. It helps keep the prime in the pump. Not sure if your pump has an external foot valve or if it's internal to the pump.

Foot valve replaced. It’s doing better but something is still not right!

[DickR]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Are you sure that the intake line from the water is not compromised? It could be losing the prime through a leak in the intake line...

This happened earlier this year to a neighbor. The leak was where the black plastic line from out in the lake was mated to a steel pipe nipple where the transition was made from plastic to all steel into the crawl space/pump. The plastic had been (I think) heated at some time to soften it to fit over the pipe nipple. At some point, caulk was applied to this joint. Visible leakage at this connection was seen, indicating failure of the connection.

[Garcia]

While it is not 100% it's working again. I believe there was no single issue but instead different things that all contributed. Basically, I replaced the foot valve, the wiring on the pressure switch was not solidly connected causing the pump to turn off and on somewhat randomly, and it seems the cut in and cut out on the pressure switch were out of adjustment. Because the switch is old and and a little rusty, it is difficult to adjust. I don't have an extra switch on the island and will get two so I'll have a spare after replacing this one.

The low water level in the lake coupled with warm, calm water seems to have led to higher algae than usual for this time of year. I'm also thinking that might have "gummed" things up a bit and now that everything is cleaned off runs smoother.

A related question: Do people leave water lines in the lake over the winter? With the warm water and low lake level I am thinking of putting my line out another 20 feet of so to help minimize picking up "crud" due to wave action. It would be a hassle to get it out that deep in the spring but easy to do now. I wonder what would happen if I just leave the one end in the water over the winter.

[chocophile]

I have a couple feet of metal screening wrapped around the end of our water line to prevent that algae from clogging the screen fitting on the end. I use zip ties to keep the screening in place. It seems to work well.

I leave our line in all year, and I have a chain at the shore connected to a hose clamp on the line. Once or twice, we've had the ice pull the water line off the connection at the shore; the chain keeps the water line from going too far away so I can retrieve it and reconnect.

I agree with the comment to check for an air leak at any above-water connections in the line. I've had that problem and it prevented the jet pump from keeping pressure.

[Descant]

We have never removed the pipe from the winter, since 1960. Originally we had galvanized pipe and it was just too heavy. When we switched to poly there seemed to be no reason to pull it out. Once, the pipe wore through where it rubbed on the rocks with wave and ice action. We now have a section of 4" pipe to protect the actual feed line (and the electric cable) along the immediate shore.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Garcia

While it is not 100% it's working again. I believe there was no single issue but instead different things that all contributed. Basically, I replaced the foot valve, the wiring on the pressure switch was not solidly connected causing the pump to turn off and on somewhat randomly, and it seems the cut in and cut out on the pressure switch were out of adjustment. Because the switch is old and and a little rusty, it is difficult to adjust. I don't have an extra switch on the island and will get two so I'll have a spare after replacing this one.

The low water level in the lake coupled with warm, calm water seems to have led to higher algae than usual for this time of year. I'm also thinking that might have "gummed" things up a bit and now that everything is cleaned off runs smoother.

A related question: Do people leave water lines in the lake over the winter? With the warm water and low lake level I am thinking of putting my line out another 20 feet of so to help minimize picking up "crud" due to wave action. It would be a hassle to get it out that deep in the spring but easy to do now. I wonder what would happen if I just leave the one end in the water over the winter.

Getting your line out into deeper water is key.... I have kept mine out in about 10' of water.... and actually think about putting it deeper....

As for leaving lines in the water, it doesn't do any harm many people do just that..I don't.. What I found is that by using cam locks, I can create sections of pipe, so that I have a short section that goes in, in the spring.... and then I lengthen it once I can tolerate being in the water.... the cam locks have been very reliable...... to keep the pipe down, I just use cinder blocks that I can pull the line back through in the fall, when I want to take the water out.....

[Garcia]

I ended up replacing the pump and in the process redid all the piping and connections as over the past decades many repairs had been made and the system was pretty scabbed together. Since the system was drained, I moved the intake out much deeper and put in a connection at the shore.

If I leave the pipe in over the winter, do I need to drain the part of the pipe in the water or will leaving it disconnected and open (loosely covered to prevent animals from storing acorns in the pipe) suffice? Or, do I need to haul up the foot valve and release the water? Sorry if this seems a dumb question - for decades I have always pulled the pipe and released the foot valve so it seems odd not to - but having to do so kind of defeats the point of leaving the pipe in the lake over the winter.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I ended up replacing the pump and in the process redid all the piping and connections as over the past decades many repairs had been made and the system was pretty scabbed together. Since the system was drained, I moved the intake out much deeper and put in a connection at the shore.

If I leave the pipe in over the winter, do I need to drain the part of the pipe in the water or will leaving it disconnected and open (loosely covered to prevent animals from storing acorns in the pipe) suffice? Or, do I need to haul up the foot valve and release the water? Sorry if this seems a dumb question - for decades I have always pulled the pipe and released the foot valve so it seems odd not to - but having to do so kind of defeats the point of leaving the pipe in the lake over the winter.

If the remaining pipe and foot valve are going to stick up through the ice you may lose it when the ice recedes in the spring.

I disconnect the pipe at the shoreline, cover the opening, and drop it to the lake bed. It is deep enough at the end of my dock so it will not freeze. In the spring I just grab the pipe off of the bottom with a rake and reconnect it.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Getting your line out into deeper water is key.... I have kept mine out in about 10' of water.... and actually think about putting it deeper....

As for leaving lines in the water, it doesn't do any harm many people do just that..I don't.. What I found is that by using cam locks, I can create sections of pipe, so that I have a short section that goes in, in the spring.... and then I lengthen it once I can tolerate being in the water.... the cam locks have been very reliable...... to keep the pipe down, I just use cinder blocks that I can pull the line back through in the fall, when I want to take the water out.....

Do you find the cam locks easy and reliable? I currently use a connector and hose clamps. In both the spring and fall I heat up the pipe to connect or disconnect. If cam locks are reliable (and air/water tight) they seem quicker and easier. If so, when I disconnect in the fall I will add one which will simplify set up next spring.