Site Donations

[webmaster]

Recently several generous forum members tried using our "Donate" button to make a donation to help this site running. Although they received a confirmation of their donation the connection to PayPal failed and the payments were never completed.

After some digging I found that the old donation system on this site was no longer compatible with PayPal and another way to accept donations was needed.

I've now setup a Patreon option to replace PayPal. Patreon is a popular and reputable system that allows visitors to join and automatically make a small monthly donation to help support their favorite creators or websites. To help support this site you can make a donation of as little as $2/month or enter any amount you like. The monthly donation can be discontinued at any time and all donations will go directly to the expenses related to operating this site and server.

As an added benefit to being a Patreon member of this forum I've created a new private forum area exclusively for our Patreon supporters where discussions about topics unrelated to the Lakes Region are allowed. I hope that access to this open forum area will be another incentive to join our Patreon and see what's going on in there.

Since I started it 30 years ago this site's expenses were always covered by advertising and some donations. Recently the advertising has dried up and Lakes Region businesses no longer seem very interested in advertising here, even though the cost is only a few dollars a day and we get lots of traffic. I'm not very good at marketing the advertising and that may be part of the problem. I tried adding Google ads but it seems that many of you now block those ads and the income from them is minimal. I will always appreciate the donations I've received through PayPal and do have a few other ideas to offset the growing expenses that I'll be trying soon.

The future of the site really depends on finding a way to cover the growing expenses. I am now paying almost all of the site's expenses out of my pocket. Now that I'm 5 years into retirement I have to decide if I can continue doing that indefinitely.

If you are a regular visitor to the site please consider becoming a Patreon member and making a small donation every month to help keep this site operating. If we can get 100 members donating a small amount monthly it will keep the site and forum running.

The "Donate" links on the site have been updated to Patreon and here's the link for you Tapatalk users:

https://www.patreon.com/winnipesaukeeforum

Update: Patreon does not provide for one-time donations so here's a link where you can do that:

https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hoste...=DSEEMJMVCMYVW

[Slickcraft]

OK boys and girls, we should be able to do this.

Alan

[John Mercier]

Send me a format for local advertisers.
We exist.
Just need a way to present it to them.

[Susie Cougar]

I just joined Patreon.
Don says he needs 100 forum members to join to be able to cover all his costs. Let’s see if we can all sign up today and reach that goal. No one wants this site to go away.

[DRH]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I just joined Patreon.
Don says he needs 100 forum members to join to be able to cover all his costs. Let’s see if we can all sign up today and reach that goal. No one wants this site to go away.

I just signed up too. Let's all help Don reach the 100 contributing member goal!

[ghfromaltonbay]

Joined yesterday. Let's keep our forum going.

[TiltonBB]

Like many people above, I have joined with a monthly contribution too.

I check the forum every day, at least once, and enjoy reading about anything happening on Winnipesaukee or on the area. The restaurant reviews and other business recommendations are very useful and helpful.

I hope many more people sign on to make regular monthly contributions. It just takes 5 minutes. We all enjoy what is here and appreciate what Don does to keep the site on track and useful.

If you have not done so yet, please consider it. Don should not have to financially support the site.

[BroadHopper]

I check the forum every day, occasionally step in. I will be glad to support the forum.

Rick

[winni83]

I have also joined with a monthly contribution. This site needs to continue to operate.

[ishoot308]

So there is no longer any way to make a one time or single donation?? You have to do a monthly subscription / deduction on your credit card?? Not sure I like this...I wonder how easy it is to cancel. Sirius XM and Planet Fitness come immediately to mind in regards to a nightmare to cancel monthly subscriptions...

Dan

[Susie Cougar]

I can’t believe there is not someone on this forum that can help Don. I have no problem donating to this site, but my son who is more knowledgeable than I am, has stated that it shouldn’t cost anywhere near $500 a month to run this site. Can’t somebody help him out? He seems to be over his head.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I can’t believe there is not someone on this forum that can help Don. I have no problem donating to this site, but my son who is more knowledgeable than I am, has stated that it shouldn’t cost anywhere near $500 a month to run this site. Can’t somebody help him out? He seems to be over his head.

Don is absolutely not in over his head. He has done a great job monitoring and guiding this site for a long time. There are a lot of things, that most people are not aware of, that he does to keep the site headed in the right direction.

I have donated in the past and I signed up to donate monthly through the new system. I hope the number of people who also sign up allows Don to cover his costs, and maybe even make a profit. To me, it is a small price to pay for the enjoyment and information on the site.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Don is absolutely not in over his head. He has done a great job monitoring and guiding this site for a long time. There are a lot of things, that most people are not aware of, that he does to keep the site headed in the right direction.

I have donated in the past and I signed up to donate monthly through the new system. I hope the number of people who also sign up allows Don to cover his costs, and maybe even make a profit. To me, it is a small price to pay for the enjoyment and information on the site.

As portals go, this was an easy one.

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

it shouldn’t cost anywhere near $500 a month to run this site. Can’t somebody help him out? He seems to be over his head.

Suzie, I never said I had $500 a month in expenses but they do amount to several thousand a year. There are expenses that you and your son don't realize. This is not a case of subscribing to a cheap hosting service and throwing up a site. This site is complex and contains a huge database with 30 years of data. I pay for and rely on several services to keep the site running securely and properly. The cost of those services has doubled and tripled in recent years. I also pay a consultant every month to take care of server issues when I'm "over my head". He has been very busy recently helping with several layers of technical issues.

If I was ever able to reach $500 a month in income it would pay the expenses and maybe provide me with a little extra income in retirement to cover the hours I spend every day to keep this site available. Would you deny me that?

[granitebox]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Suzie, I never said I had $500 a month in expenses but they do amount to several thousand a year. There are expenses that you and your son don't realize. This is not a case of subscribing to a cheap hosting service and throwing up a site. This site is complex and contains a huge database with 30 years of data. I pay for and rely on several services to keep the site running securely and properly. The cost of those services has doubled and tripled in recent years. I also pay a consultant every month to take care of server issues when I'm "over my head". He has been very busy recently helping with several layers of technical issues.

If I was ever able to reach $500 a month in income it would pay the expenses and maybe provide me with a little extra income in retirement to cover the hours I spend every day to keep this site available. Would you deny me that?

Her post was not even worth your time to reply to. Thanks for all you do.

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Suzie, I never said I had $500 a month in expenses but they do amount to several thousand a year. There are expenses that you and your son don't realize. This is not a case of subscribing to a cheap hosting service and throwing up a site. This site is complex and contains a huge database with 30 years of data. I pay for and rely on several services to keep the site running securely and properly. The cost of those services has doubled and tripled in recent years. I also pay a consultant every month to take care of server issues when I'm "over my head". He has been very busy recently helping with several layers of technical issues.

If I was ever able to reach $500 a month in income it would pay the expenses and maybe provide me with a little extra income in retirement to cover the hours I spend every day to keep this site available. Would you deny me that?

Obviously, my choice of words was not the best. I never meant to imply that you were not doing a great job for all these 30 years. I have enjoyed this forum so much. Recently, you have mentioned that you have all these bots that you were trying to get rid of and you were spending a lot of time on them. I was just hoping for all that you had done over these years, that someone with more knowledge, would be able to jump in and help you deal with these problems.
Also, you had mentioned that you are not good with marketing. John Mercier jumped in and offered to help.

I am very frustrated that when you asked for help that only about 18 people donated to the Patreon site. I thought for sure that 100 people or more would jump on.
Again, I am so sorry that this was taken the wrong way. I just had hope that people would want to help, but instead they call me out. Sorry.
Don, I would never deny you money from the forum. I’m not sure why you got that impression. I was the first one to jump on and join Patreon and encouraged everyone else to do so as well. My heart has always had the best intentions, but sometimes my words get away from me.

[thinkxingu]

Has anyone come up with an answer to Dan's question about one-time donations vs. subscriptions?

I'm up for a donation but avoid subscriptions whenever possible.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

[Descant]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Has anyone come up with an answer to Dan's question about one-time donations vs. subscriptions?

I'm up for a donation but avoid subscriptions whenever possible.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

Seems like you could a subscription and then cancel after the first ytransaction. I agree that too many online offers are for free or cheap and then it is difficult to cancel.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Descant

Seems like you could a subscription and then cancel after the first ytransaction. I agree that too many online offers are for free or cheap and then it is difficult to cancel.

I was glad to sign up to contribute. If it is true that only 18 people have stepped up, out of all the people who regularly post, that is shameful. I hope people stop and think about how much enjoyment and information they get from this site and make the effort to contribute.

If your contention is that you don't want to sign on to a monthly contribution I would ask: That option for a one time donation has been available for years, did you contribute then?

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

So there is no longer any way to make a one time or single donation??

Here's a link where you can make a one-time donation on PayPal:

https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hoste...=DSEEMJMVCMYVW

[chocophile]

I recently became one of the (now) 19 members who are making a small monthly donation.

I encourage everyone who reads the site a few times a month or more to consider a $2 or $5 monthly donation.

Don says that advertising revenue no longer pays the bills ... since he already contributes a huge amount in time, he should contribute nothing in $$.

Please consider making this small monthly donation which you can cancel in the future when you stop reading the site. Thank you!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Here's a link where you can make a one-time donation on PayPal:

https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hoste...=DSEEMJMVCMYVW

Thank you Don!

Can you make this link permanent on the donation page?

Dan

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I was glad to sign up to contribute. If it is true that only 18 people have stepped up, out of all the people who regularly post, that is shameful. I hope people stop and think about how much enjoyment and information they get from this site and make the effort to contribute.

If your contention is that you don't want to sign on to a monthly contribution I would ask: That option for a one time donation has been available for years, did you contribute then?

I did not—literally every forum I belong to not only pays the bill with ads but profits off them.

That this forum gets the traffic it does and doesn't make money is crazy—the bear spray and lake level threads have over 130k views by themselves—but Don has mentioned he's not the best with ad sales.

I'll certainly contribute since Don has asked, and I use the forum a lot, but I can't help but wonder if, with a little help, the site could become more financially successful.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Here's a link where you can make a one-time donation on PayPal:

https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hoste...=DSEEMJMVCMYVW

Link works well, I hope the donation helps to allow this wonderful site to continue. Thank you Don, your efforts are greatly appreciated.

Charlie T

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I was glad to sign up to contribute. If it is true that only 18 people have stepped up, out of all the people who regularly post, that is shameful. I hope people stop and think about how much enjoyment and information they get from this site and make the effort to contribute.

If your contention is that you don't want to sign on to a monthly contribution I would ask: That option for a one time donation has been available for years, did you contribute then?

Why do you find it "Shameful" that people do not want to sign up for and have a monthly charge on their credit card for who knows how long to be part of a web site forum??

My credit card has been hacked twice just this year alone and I am now extremely careful where I use it. Letting some unknown entity use my card month after month does not sit well with me. If you have no problem doing that more power to you but don't shame people into your way of thinking...

And to answer your question, yes I have donated in the past when I felt like it using the donation link that was taken down and recently reinstated so now what??...

Almost all websites rely on advertising to pay for forum expenses and make a profit. This one should to...

Dan

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Why do you find it "Shameful" that people do not want to sign up for and have a monthly charge on their credit card for who knows how long to be part of a web site forum??
Dan

Because many people, including frequent posters like you, use and enjoy the site regularly. It costs Don money out of his pocket to keep it running. I have a problem having other people pay for my enjoyment. I am glad to pay my own way. Some people may not feel that way.

This website has been run successfully for 30 years. I am not going to tell someone how they should run their website. That is not a business I am in.

For who knows how long? For as long as you want it to happen. You can cancel at any time.

I use my credit cards for many personal and business related items. Some of them are retained by the seller for future use. If there is fraudulent use every credit card company handles it swiftly so I am not overly worried about that.

Think about the many millions of people who automatically donate monthly by credit card to Tunnels to Towers. Apparently they are not worried either.

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

literally every forum I belong to not only pays the bill with ads but profits off them.

Are you really aware of the finances of all those forums? Many developers have seen a significant drop in Google Ad revenues, especially since Google started paying for exposures instead of clicks. Many years ago those ads would generate $100-$200 a month for me. Now it's down to $100 about every 3 months. That's about a dollar a day. There are several reasons for this and many apply to all online ads. Ad blockers are now built in to many browsers and people often run other blockers. I'll admit that I run Pi-hole on my home network. Even when ads are displayed many are reluctant to click on them for fear of being tracked and inundated with targeted ads. It's a real problem for some sites.

From the beginning 30 years ago it was easy to get advertisers. They contacted me wanting to advertise on winnipesaukee.com. At times I had as many as a dozen ads running at the same time. I've never actively marketed the advertising and never contacted any business first. And to be honest, I don't have the energy or interest in starting a marketing effort now.

If businesses want to advertise here they can contact me at webmaster@winnipesaukee.com and I'll send them more information. Despite many contacts referring to my "staff" it's just me managing the site and always has been. I figure that with a modest Patreon membership and Google ads it will cover my costs and that's all I want. I'm in my 70's now and just want to keep it simple.

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Almost all websites rely on advertising to pay for forum expenses and make a profit. This one should to...

Dan

I'm sorry Dan but I think its awful presumptuous of you to be second guessing Don's finances for this forum. If you know so much about it perhaps you may want to take over administration or at least the financial operations of the site. With over 6300 posts to your credit, God knows you get your use out of this fine forum. I'm of the opinion that any regular user of this site may want to feel obligated to kick in a few bucks now and again. Credit card protections being what they are certainly make an online contribution to a known entity pretty safe.

[TomC]

Is the number of Patrons shown somewhere? How do people know it is 18 or 19? I guess I expected it to be many more also...

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Charlie T

I'm sorry Dan but I think its awful presumptuous of you to be second guessing Don's finances for this forum. If you know so much about it perhaps you may want to take over administration or at least the financial operations of the site. With over 6300 posts to your credit, God knows you get your use out of this fine forum. I'm of the opinion that any regular user of this site may want to feel obligated to kick in a few bucks now and again. Credit card protections being what they are certainly make an online contribution to a known entity pretty safe.

Where did I second guess Don’s finances?? Stop putting words in my mouth! I said MOST websites survive by paid advertisements which they do.

As far as donations, I have made some so I think it’s awfully presumptuous of you to think I haven’t! I’m just not going to do it on a monthly basis and if that doesn’t sit well with you too bad!

Dan

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Are you really aware of the finances of all those forums? Many developers have seen a significant drop in Google Ad revenues, especially since Google started paying for exposures instead of clicks. Many years ago those ads would generate $100-$200 a month for me. Now it's down to $100 about every 3 months. That's about a dollar a day. There are several reasons for this and many apply to all online ads. Ad blockers are now built in to many browsers and people often run other blockers. I'll admit that I run Pi-hole on my home network. Even when ads are displayed many are reluctant to click on them for fear of being tracked and inundated with targeted ads. It's a real problem for some sites.

From the beginning 30 years ago it was easy to get advertisers. They contacted me wanting to advertise on winnipesaukee.com. At times I had as many as a dozen ads running at the same time. I've never actively marketed the advertising and never contacted any business first. And to be honest, I don't have the energy or interest in starting a marketing effort now.

If businesses want to advertise here they can contact me at webmaster@winnipesaukee.com and I'll send them more information. Despite many contacts referring to my "staff" it's just me managing the site and always has been. I figure that with a modest Patreon membership and Google ads it will cover my costs and that's all I want. I'm in my 70's now and just want to keep it simple.

While I don't know how much profit they're making, I know they have never charged for access.

That being said, I'm guessing most—if not all—have multiple admins.

To be clear: I'm not picking fault with whatever happens, only spitballing options based on my experiences with other forums similar to this one.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

[Descant]

I think Don certainly knows how he wants to run this site, and he has been very successful, at least in service and content, if not finances. At some point in time, I'd expect there needs to be a succession plan and that would involve, perhaps, multiple admins and probably some sort of marketing. In my experience, I gacve a significant commission (50%) for new ad sales afer a basic threshhold for repeats of existing customers that I had established already. Worked fine. No overhead and an agreessive salesperson. Ifs/he disn't sell anything I didn;t lose anything, if therfe werfe sales, we both benefitted. When the salesperson moved on, I had a new base of repeat customers. When Google starts taking the money, it's hard to compete for those customers.