Lake Winnipesaukee Alliance Survey

[Chimi]

It’s surprising that there was not a better response to the postcards sent to property owners by the Lake Winnipesaukee Alliance, especially since the overall quality of the lake is in decline.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...ntent=headline

[ApS]

"While slope and proximity of the structure to the shore can generally not be changed, there could be improvements, like making sure a steep slope is vegetated."

I have a steep slope that is vegetated, but my trees and shrubs are gradually falling into Winter Harbor. This, along with my neighbors' trees, is more noticeable when the lake is at "Full Pond".

Right now, in mid-September, lakewater clarity from the 1970s has returned. Isn't time to take Seiche-disc measurements?



An existing home one street upslope from Sewall Road lakefronts has demolished every green thing covering their two acre lots. (Totally razed).



Someone across Winter Harbor has spent ALL last week removing trees with a crane and chipping them into trailers.

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by Chimi

It’s surprising that there was not a better response to the postcards sent to property owners by the Lake Winnipesaukee Alliance, especially since the overall quality of the lake is in decline.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...ntent=headline

Doesn't surprise me. Unless people are personally impacted, too many of them just don't care. If they don't have to do something beneficial for the lake they won't. Sadly, that'll mean laws, enforcement and administration.

[WinnisquamZ]

So if I understand correctly, individuals are keeping photographic evidence of others shoreline property to possible help them make decisions in the future. Or as I see it, illegally documenting someone else’s property to use against each shoreline property owner who does things not to other’s liking.


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[John Mercier]

Where is the statute that makes it illegal?

[WinnisquamZ]

It is illegal to use photos taken of others property without consent and use those photos against them or for personal gain. Has been noted many times in court cases though out the country


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[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

It is illegal to use photos taken of others property without consent and use those photos against them or for personal gain. Has been noted many times in court cases though out the country


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The state of New Hampshire takes aerial photos of the various lakes. They can then use this evidence to prosecute environmental violators. I assume it is legal if the state does it?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

It is illegal to use photos taken of others property without consent and use those photos against them or for personal gain. Has been noted many times in court cases though out the country


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So I'm in a traffic accident, I take a photo of the other guy's car in case there's a dispute, I show he has no damage, and that's illegal?

I own a property that's an eyesore and not complying with a town ordinance, my neighbor photographs the junked car on my lawn, and I go after him?

I think not, in both cases. But maybe you have a source?

[LoveLakeLife]

It’s legal of course. There’s no trespass involved. There’s no expectation of privacy on your lawn when it fronts the lake, which is public. The lack of response, I’m sure, is due to resentment of perceived do-gooders trying to shame homeowners into doing something that the proud-of-themselves falsely virtuous people think should be done. It’s the same tactic that the utility companies use when sending people comparisons of their neighbors’ supposed energy-efficiency stats. Such activities are demonstrably doomed to fail for obvious reasons, even if arguably done with the best of intentions.


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

It is illegal to use photos taken of others property without consent and use those photos against them or for personal gain. Has been noted many times in court cases though out the country


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Do you have a link?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

It’s legal of course. There’s no trespass involved. There’s no expectation of privacy on your lawn when it fronts the lake, which is public. The lack of response, I’m sure, is due to resentment of perceived do-gooders trying to shame homeowners into doing something that the proud-of-themselves falsely virtuous people think should be done. It’s the same tactic that the utility companies use when sending people comparisons of their neighbors’ supposed energy-efficiency stats. Such activities are demonstrably doomed to fail for obvious reasons, even if arguably done with the best of intentions.


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That depends on the threshold for success.

If the LWA feels that even one positive response is worth the effort - then it was a success.

If they set the bar at 100% - then the program has little chance of ever being successful.

[thinkxingu]

Maybe it was the medium—I toss almost 100% of mail that isn't immediately relevant these days without much of a glance.

Digital casts a wider net, of course, but then the target is less precise.

Door to door would be the best bet—that is, if the questions don't put the owners on the spot. Did the questions involve NARCing neighbors out?!

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[John Mercier]

I don't think they sent questions.

I think they took pictures of the property, graded its shore vegetation according to BMP, and sent it to the address that the tax bills go to.

Someone on here may have more information about it.

[FlyingScot]

I volunteer at LWA, so I heard a bit about this in passing. They took the photos as part of a comprehensive review of lake shoreline. They are not NARCing anyone, they are trying to work with each owner to help them reduce their impact, but it's all voluntary

[WinnisquamZ]

Answer the following question, if a tree disappears during the winter months or a few rocks are relocated or removed to make one’s shoreline more enjoyable will our organization use those photos of record against the homeowner if a complaint is made?
The same homeowners they request funding from are the same people you will go after if something is done with your approval. Wake-up people!


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[tis]

Not sure I like the sounds of this. It sounds like big brother to me.

[fatlazyless]

Transform your property into a lake-friendly paradise:

lawns ......................www.nhlakes.org/lake-friendly-lawn-care/ .................. www.planitwild.com

hard surfaces ...........http://www.nhlakes.org/transform-har...iendly-spaces/

along the shoreline ...http://www.nhlakes.org/lake-friendly...the-shoreline/

septic systems ........ http://www.nhlakes.org/healthy-septi...althier-lakes/

fireworks ................ www.nhlakes.org/fireworks-and-our-lakes/

wake responsibly ..... http://www.goodhueboat.com/blog/wake...terways--90871

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Answer the following question, if a tree disappears during the winter months or a few rocks are relocated or removed to make one’s shoreline more enjoyable will our organization use those photos of record against the homeowner if a complaint is made?
The same homeowners they request funding from are the same people you will go after if something is done with your approval. Wake-up people!


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Anyone can take pictures of the shorefront.

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

That depends on the threshold for success.

If the LWA feels that even one positive response is worth the effort - then it was a success.

If they set the bar at 100% - then the program has little chance of ever being successful.

Valid point, John, thanks.


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[John Mercier]

I think they may be trying to rely on some natural tendencies that we have.

First, we tend to be somewhat competitive. So a grading system brings that out in us.

Second, our landscapes naturally change over time.

Many of the camps around the lake are craftsman buildings that were built among the trees. As the trees succumbed to damage, disease, and age; we remove them to protect the building from being fell upon.

That leads us toward lawns.
Lawns can be expensive and time consuming, so offering us a simple, less expensive landscape option comes into play over time.
Directing that seems to be their focus.

[Descant]

The appearance is that NHLAKES and LWA have similar goals. NHLAKES approach is education. LWA approaches with aggression and enforcement.

[Pine Island Guy]

Originally Posted by Descant

The appearance is that NHLAKES and LWA have similar goals. NHLAKES approach is education. LWA approaches with aggression and enforcement.

I don't believe that LWA has any enforcement agenda or capabilities. They send information to the property owner about what they observe and how to create a more healthy environment

-PIG

[ApS]

1)

Someone across Winter Harbor has spent ALL last week removing trees with a crane and chipping them into trailers.

Update:
The razing of the entire lot continued over the weekend and still continues. I can now plainly see the McMansion doing the clearing.

2)
With such low water, now is the time to rent a front-end loader and move those boulders where you want them..



...After obtaining a permit, of course.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by ApS

1)Update:
The razing of the entire lot continued over the weekend and still continues. I can now plainly see the McMansion doing the clearing.

2)
With such low water, now is the time to rent a front-end loader and move those boulders where you want them..



...After obtaining a permit, of course.

I was really disappointed (and weirded out) to see how many trees were removed from the new home being built in Center Harbor just after Canoe (heading north).

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[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Where is the statute that makes it illegal?

Others may need to read the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution.

[John Mercier]

What would taking pictures of someone else's property have to do with the First?

[Garcia]

I applaud the efforts they are making.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Answer the following question, if a tree disappears during the winter months or a few rocks are relocated or removed to make one’s shoreline more enjoyable will our organization use those photos of record against the homeowner if a complaint is made?
The same homeowners they request funding from are the same people you will go after if something is done with your approval. Wake-up people!


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If actions are in violation of the shoreline protection act or anything similar then yes, any evidence should be used. Likewise if the photos show there was no violation you're in in the clear.

While I own my property, I don't own the lake. Actions on my property should not break rules designed to protect everyone's property of the lake.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

What would taking pictures of someone else's property have to do with the First?

According to Google's AI.

"Yes, filming in public is protected by the First Amendment as a form of expressive activity, particularly when recording matters of public concern . . ."