Housing Market Slowdown

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I agree that the corporate investment is really bad here and in general--it will suck all the profit from real estate away from normal homeowners, like most of us on the forum.

But the septic issue cuts two ways. If the primary issue for current people is that they can't afford the septic systems that they should have at the edge of the lake, that means they've been shoveling their waste into the lake and getting away with it because the law only requires inspection when a sale occurs. That's not right.

Every home should have to have a periodic septic inspection and upgrade if necessary. There should also be programs to help people afford or finance those upgrades too. But no one should be allowed to just let "it" flow into our lake

Removing the “grandfather clause” from many of these law would go a long way to correct these problems


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Removing the “grandfather clause” from many of these law would go a long way to correct these problems


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It would also create Ex Post Facto.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

It would also create Ex Post Facto.

It does not have to hurt anybody harder than necessary. We could require all systems to be inspected every x number of years, and then brought up to standard if they failed. For people truly strapped for cash, towns could help them get loans.

I think they did this on Waukewan a few years ago. That was even more critical because it was public water supply.

[John Mercier]

The current system is that if the septic is found to be in failure, it has to be replaced.

We have a way to monitor that. Samples can detect E Coli, a sign of septic waste entering the lake. And can be tested to determine what species is the culprit.

After that, it isn't hard to track backward.

The Legislature just touched on this last session, and the current LSRs have this...

2026-2058 SB Title: relative to cyanobacteria and other emerging environmental water quality issues.
Sponsors: (Prime) David Watters


2026-2184 SB Title: eliminating the use of agitators in instances where temporary docks have been removed from bodies of water.
Sponsors: (Prime) Regina Birdsell

2026-2326 HB Title: requiring disclosure of Japanese Knotweed in real property transactions.
Sponsors: (Prime) Cathryn Harvey

2026-2332 HB Title: adding cyanobacteria and algae blooms to the study of the exotic aquatic weeds and species committee.
Sponsors: (Prime) Tanya Donnelly

2026-2345 HB Title: relative to changes to the Winnipesaukee river basin control replacement fund.
Sponsors: (Prime) Steven Bogert

So, it isn't like nothing is being looked at.

[fatlazyless]

Here's a fun new listing to look at, One Turtle Island, Lake Waukewan, Meredith NH ....... $295,000 ....... built in 1905 ...... close to Saw Mill Shore Rd over on the VERY quiet side of Lake Waukewan ...... ha-ha-ha

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1-...86703611_zpid/

Just LOOK at this place ...... especially the kitchen ....... OMG ...... oh, what a feeling! .....

Hey there Biggd ..... is this place within your view?

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Here's a fun new listing to look at, One Turtle Island, Lake Waukewan, Meredith NH ....... $295,000 ....... built in 1905 ...... close to Saw Mill Shore Rd over on the VERY quiet side of Lake Waukewan ...... ha-ha-ha

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1-...86703611_zpid/

Just LOOK at this place ...... especially the kitchen ....... OMG ...... oh, what a feeling! .....

Hey there Biggd ..... is this place within your view?

It looks like a hoarders paradise!

[Major]

Originally Posted by codeman671

It looks like a hoarders paradise!

Geez, I could never imagine living like that! I guess the purchaser will be buying the land!

[John Mercier]

And a flame thrower.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by codeman671

It looks like a hoarders paradise!

In my 11 years on lake Waukewan, I don't think I've ever seen anyone there.
The market has really slowed down, I don't see them getting anything close to that.
The log cabin across the street from me has had very few showings even with a price cut.
My friends place over in Moultonborough, he has dropped his price below 400K with no bites!

[Juiced06GTO]

I was all in on buying a second home on a lake in NH, preferably Winni, but lately I find myself struggling to find the time to keep up with my primary home and 3 young kids running around deeply involved in sports, and nearing the end of my current mortgage, the thought of taking out another one for the limited amount of use and the added upkeep is becoming less appealing unfortunately...

The crazy inflation in costs certainly hasn't helped and I would venture to guess that a lot of other people in my age bracket (41) are feeling the same way.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

I was all in on buying a second home on a lake in NH, preferably Winni, but lately I find myself struggling to find the time to keep up with my primary home and 3 young kids running around deeply involved in sports, and nearing the end of my current mortgage, the thought of taking out another one for the limited amount of use and the added upkeep is becoming less appealing unfortunately...

The crazy inflation in costs certainly hasn't helped and I would venture to guess that a lot of other people in my age bracket (41) are feeling the same way.

Having a lake home for your family is an awesome goal. You are young, with hard work and focus you can get there.
I would venture to say most vacation home sales in the last few years have been cash.
Be smart with real estate and you can get there. We did.

Good luck,
Bill

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

I was all in on buying a second home on a lake in NH, preferably Winni, but lately I find myself struggling to find the time to keep up with my primary home and 3 young kids running around deeply involved in sports, and nearing the end of my current mortgage, the thought of taking out another one for the limited amount of use and the added upkeep is becoming less appealing unfortunately...

The crazy inflation in costs certainly hasn't helped and I would venture to guess that a lot of other people in my age bracket (41) are feeling the same way.

We are past "Peak Boomer"; and the State is resolving several revenue problems.

So the surge into the area is slowing, and calculations are being made about future cost structures.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

I was all in on buying a second home on a lake in NH, preferably Winni, but lately I find myself struggling to find the time to keep up with my primary home and 3 young kids running around deeply involved in sports, and nearing the end of my current mortgage, the thought of taking out another one for the limited amount of use and the added upkeep is becoming less appealing unfortunately...

The crazy inflation in costs certainly hasn't helped and I would venture to guess that a lot of other people in my age bracket (41) are feeling the same way.

This is precisely why we went seasonal in an association—fewer maintenance needs and lower maintenance costs, lower utilities bills (non-existent in winter), and low enough entry fee to not prevent other travel, entertainment, etc.

Of course, since we bought in '14 even those costs have doubled/tripled.

PS I don't think many in your age bracket are approaching the end of their mortgage. The current average age for mortgage payoffs is somewhere in the low 60's.

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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

I was all in on buying a second home on a lake in NH, preferably Winni, but lately I find myself struggling to find the time to keep up with my primary home and 3 young kids running around deeply involved in sports, and nearing the end of my current mortgage, the thought of taking out another one for the limited amount of use and the added upkeep is becoming less appealing unfortunately...

The crazy inflation in costs certainly hasn't helped and I would venture to guess that a lot of other people in my age bracket (41) are feeling the same way.

I'm 72, My wife and I went thru the same stage at your age. We had a lake home on Winnisquam but with the kids in serious sporting activities we rarely got to use it. We sold it and rented one week every year until they graduated high school then purchased again, no regrets.
Now 11 years later our grandchildren are in serious sports, and we can never seem to get them to come up to the lake. But I'm not selling this time, this is my time.
Life goes through stages, not everyone has their kids in sports but that is a lake home killer.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I'm 72, My wife and I went thru the same stage at your age. We had a lake home on Winnisquam but with the kids in serious sporting activities we rarely got to use it. We sold it and rented one week every year until they graduated high school then purchased again, no regrets.
Now 11 years later our grandchildren are in serious sports, and we can never seem to get them to come up to the lake. But I'm not selling this time, this is my time.
Life goes through stages, not everyone has their kids in sports but that is a lake home killer.

It's true about the sports. Yet many kids in our neighborhood learned to love the lake and have grown up and come back to live. I have always worried though that more and more people will say it's not worth the work and the expense, especially the taxes which you can never get paid off, for a few months a year. Maybe there will always be buyers, who knows?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by tis

It's true about the sports. Yet many kids in our neighborhood learned to love the lake and have grown up and come back to live. I have always worried though that more and more people will say it's not worth the work and the expense, especially the taxes which you can never get paid off, for a few months a year. Maybe there will always be buyers, who knows?

That is the revenue question at hand.

We have a thread on the forum for the dam funding.
They were going to tax shorefront to cover the $8 million annually, then the plan was boat registrations - but at $5, not nearly enough money. So what will be the plan to cover the $8 million and rising? Small potatoes, but something a buyer might think on.

Now we know we are short about $400 million for roads/higways at the State level, and even more at the municipal level.
Plan seems to be a mixture of toll increases and gas tax increases.
Again something a buyer of a recreational home is going to think about for travel costs and fueling up any toys.

Lastly, they have a court order to fix SWEPT. At the time, no clue what the Legislature was thinking. But a recent entry was to triple the SWEPT rate, and discount 20% for a primary home, an extra 10% for no children in school, and an extra 10% for seniors.
Since the State has made it very clear that we have too many of us in the 60+ range (26% of the entire residential population - and who know about the second home owners), no one is sure what that will finally look like.
Will second home owners be bearing the brunt? How much? Since the tax would be collected by the State and redistributed (currently it is kept by the municipality in which it is raised), what is that going to look like for each of the towns around each of the lakes?

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

I was all in on buying a second home on a lake in NH, preferably Winni, but lately I find myself struggling to find the time to keep up with my primary home and 3 young kids running around deeply involved in sports, and nearing the end of my current mortgage, the thought of taking out another one for the limited amount of use and the added upkeep is becoming less appealing unfortunately...

The crazy inflation in costs certainly hasn't helped and I would venture to guess that a lot of other people in my age bracket (41) are feeling the same way.

I'm fortunate in that an earlier generation bought an island property. Yes, there were many years when I was too busy to get there much and year when my kids were too busy. Having a place to build memories across generations has become more important to my family than the appreciated asset (although that is nice too!). If it's a lifestyle choice that is affordable and can live on with the next generation (or beyond) a second home can be worth a lot.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

I was all in on buying a second home on a lake in NH, preferably Winni, but lately I find myself struggling to find the time to keep up with my primary home and 3 young kids running around deeply involved in sports, and nearing the end of my current mortgage, the thought of taking out another one for the limited amount of use and the added upkeep is becoming less appealing unfortunately...

The crazy inflation in costs certainly hasn't helped and I would venture to guess that a lot of other people in my age bracket (41) are feeling the same way.

We bought our place in 2015 from a guy with young kids who built it in 2000. On move in, it was very clear that they were almost never there. I think we longed more time out first 1/2 summer than he did in 15 years. It's really tough with a young family--you need to be committed to a certain lifestyle that does not include Little League et al

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

I was all in on buying a second home on a lake in NH, preferably Winni, but lately I find myself struggling to find the time to keep up with my primary home and 3 young kids running around deeply involved in sports, and nearing the end of my current mortgage, the thought of taking out another one for the limited amount of use and the added upkeep is becoming less appealing unfortunately...

The crazy inflation in costs certainly hasn't helped and I would venture to guess that a lot of other people in my age bracket (41) are feeling the same way.

Maybe you don't need to take it all on by yourself. We have three generations using our camp. Our next door neighbors share generations, cousins, etc. I got my foot in the door with a condo in 1980 that was strictly an ininvestment, but at least I was participating in the rising costs of lakefront properties, and had a little income and equity. Not everybody wants to be, or should be, a landlord, of course.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

I was all in on buying a second home on a lake in NH, preferably Winni, but lately I find myself struggling to find the time to keep up with my primary home and 3 young kids running around deeply involved in sports, and nearing the end of my current mortgage, the thought of taking out another one for the limited amount of use and the added upkeep is becoming less appealing unfortunately...

The crazy inflation in costs certainly hasn't helped and I would venture to guess that a lot of other people in my age bracket (41) are feeling the same way.

One thing I would point out is the increase in value over the time you own it. The good news is lakefront property seems to increase in value faster than non lakefront property inflation, the bad news is you can't spend or pay bills with equity.

I put a lot of money into improvements on the Gilford home I have. However, 20 years after I bought it I could sell for so much more. The math works out that I think I could get beck everything, purchase price, improvements and even taxes and insurance for 20 years. But to get that I would have to sell, and then what.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

One thing I would point out is the increase in value over the time you own it. The good news is lakefront property seems to increase in value faster than non lakefront property inflation, the bad news is you can't spend or pay bills with equity.

I put a lot of money into improvements on the Gilford home I have. However, 20 years after I bought it I could sell for so much more. The math works out that I think I could get beck everything, purchase price, improvements and even taxes and insurance for 20 years. But to get that I would have to sell, and then what.

This. Home appreciation is great-but doesn’t mean a thing until you sell it! As noted-with waterfront the gains can be incredible. But the memories and good times can’t be bought for any price. I know our lake house is our happy place-the feeling we have when there is complete peace.

I don’t know what happens with an association mentioned above? Do you own it? Is there any equity built? I don’t really know anything about them.

I tell the younger generation: one of the hardest things you’ll ever do is get in real estate. One of the best things you’ll ever do is get in real estate.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Here's a fun new listing to look at, One Turtle Island, Lake Waukewan, Meredith NH ....... $295,000 ....... built in 1905 ...... close to Saw Mill Shore Rd over on the VERY quiet side of Lake Waukewan ...... ha-ha-ha

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1-...86703611_zpid/

Just LOOK at this place ...... especially the kitchen ....... OMG ...... oh, what a feeling! .....

Hey there Biggd ..... is this place within your view?

LOVE that place! Huge work to get it up to par, but a very low entry fee. If I were a younger man...

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

LOVE that place! Huge work to get it up to par, but a very low entry fee. If I were a younger man...

That's a really off the grid property, no electricity, no plumbing, no internet, no boat dock on the main shore. I doubt the island would even accept a septic system.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Biggd

That's a really off the grid property, no electricity, no plumbing, no internet, no boat dock on the main shore. I doubt the island would even accept a septic system.

Ack--the end of my dream

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Ack--the end of my dream

Turtle Island and the log home across from me on Wakewaun are both under agreement. I guess people are still buying.

[fatlazyless]

So, Turtle Island in Lake Waukewan sold in one week after it was listed for $295,000.

Size of entire Turtle Island lot is 3485 square feet of granite rock ledge with about five pine trees and is the entire small island, somewhere very close to much larger Chapman Island, Lake Waukewan in Meredith NH.

3485 sq ft is 0.08000459 acre ....... or a little less than a 60' x 60' square piece of island, but who knows, it could be an irregular shaped island and probably is.

Hey, maybe the new owner can drill a sideways sewer line with a pump under the lake to the town water and sewer on Waukewan St., just like was done with Big Island, Paugus Bay, Laconia in 2017.

Did Turtle Island get its' name because it resembles a turtle shell slightly showing just above the surface of the lake?

[ApS]

The solution to the quandery is to buy two lakefront homes.

When the time comes, you sell the one you won't be needing. They don't need to be located in the same county or state.

Originally Posted by Biggd

That's a really off the grid property, no electricity, no plumbing, no internet, no boat dock on the main shore. I doubt the island would even accept a septic system.

First thing I noticed was an aluminum "walker". Apparently, the owner was disabled somehow.

The refrigerator is powered by kerosene. (An old practice). The cast-iron kitchen woodstove, apparently in regular use, would demand a lot of wood. The pricy "Heatalator" fireplace--designed to capture wasted heat--would also demand a lot of wood--sending much heat out the chimney, while drawing cold "replacement" air from window "leaks" . Food "stores" were kept in cookie tins, to keep the contents from mice and voles.

A small floating dock ensured access to town, although it may have been possible to walk to a common land area by fifty feet of stepping across a "walkway" of boulders.

To enjoy the lake as long as possible, the apparently disabled owner tried to make his island camp into a three-season cottage. Good luck with that.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ApS

The solution to the quandery is to buy two lakefront homes.

When the time comes, you sell the one you won't be needing. They don't need to be located in the same county or state.



First thing I noticed was an aluminum "walker". Apparently, the owner was disabled somehow.

The refrigerator is powered by kerosene. (An old practice). The cast-iron kitchen woodstove, apparently in regular use, would demand a lot of wood. The pricy "Heatalator" fireplace--designed to capture wasted heat--would also demand a lot of wood--sending much heat out the chimney, while drawing cold "replacement" air from window "leaks" . Food "stores" were kept in cookie tins, to keep the contents from mice and voles.

A small floating dock ensured access to town, although it may have been possible to walk to a common land area by fifty feet of stepping across a "walkway" of boulders.

To enjoy the lake as long as possible, the apparently disabled owner tried to make his island camp into a three-season cottage. Good luck with that.

You have that ALMOST right...

They need to both be on Winni so that you can have a place to build great memories with your family, and then an island place to get to alone when you need a break from creating those memories

[ApS]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You have that ALMOST right... They need to both be on Winni so that you can have a place to build great memories with your family, and then an island place to get to alone when you need a break from creating those memories

Lake Winnipesaukee property values are presently out of sight; hence the topic of "Market Softening".

Ascendant McMansions could still make memories, but those memories are changing. Money pouring in has altered "On Golden Pond" to the point that noisy lawn devices, dock lights, amplified boater "music", ocean-racers, wake-making boats, sand bar crowding, dropping water quality, shoreline erosion, the downing of mature trees--especially along shorelines, night skies are dark no longer, and crowding in general affects memories. (The fishing economy isn't what it used to be).

Certainly affecting my memories, when a speedy five horsepower 10-foot rowboat got me to the nearest store for fresh dairy products, bread, and postage stamps. An immense condominium has replaced the docks where I could buy six gallons of "white" gasoline. On occasion, the same trip was made by paddling a canoe. Seen a canoe lately?



Memories can still be built on a .08-acre island, where existing solutions to refrigeration and septic system are in place. Teens can be put to work re-arranging an island's rocky shoreline, just as I did seventy years ago. (And still do).

The Turtle Island property is a genuine "camp", wherein the Lakes Region is losing camps to "Progress". In recent decades, walking the shoreline's pine needle trails (a half-mile either way) to the neighbors has been affected by "landscaping".

Originally Posted by Biggd

Turtle Island and the log home across from me on Wakewaun are both under agreement. I guess people are still buying.

One week, huh?



I did title my post with "Buy This".

[tis]

Originally Posted by ApS

Lake Winnipesaukee property values are presently out of sight; hence the topic of "Market Softening".

Ascendant McMansions could still make memories, but those memories are changing. Money pouring in has altered "On Golden Pond" to the point that noisy lawn devices, dock lights, amplified boater "music", ocean-racers, wake-making boats, sand bar crowding, dropping water quality, shoreline erosion, the downing of mature trees--especially along shorelines, night skies are dark no longer, and crowding in general affects memories. (The fishing economy isn't what it used to be).

Certainly affecting my memories, when a speedy five horsepower 10-foot rowboat got me to the nearest store for fresh dairy products, bread, and postage stamps. An immense condominium has replaced the docks where I could buy six gallons of "white" gasoline. On occasion, the same trip was made by paddling a canoe. Seen a canoe lately?



Memories can still be built on a .08-acre island, where existing solutions to refrigeration and septic system are in place. Teens can be put to work re-arranging an island's rocky shoreline, just as I did seventy years ago. (And still do).

The Turtle Island property is a genuine "camp", wherein the Lakes Region is losing camps to "Progress". In recent decades, walking the shoreline's pine needle trails (a half-mile either way) to the neighbors has been affected by "landscaping".



One week, huh?



I did title my post with "Buy This".

We were saying this summer that you almost never see canoes any more or heaven forbid a row boat. Guess paddle boards and kayaks have replaced them which in most cases only hold one person. Sort of like cell phones in today's society, I guess, everybody lives in their own little secluded world. Although you often see two kayaks and paddle boards traveling together.

[fatlazyless]

For $400 on Craigslist-NH you can find used two-seat kayaks made by Old Town and others, designed for two paddlers, that go for maybe $1000 when new.

For paddling a lake, an old aluminum canoe selling for three or four hundred for two works excellent, and is easy to store in the winter, outdoors. Set it upside down on two supports, and forget it till spring.

Aluminum canoes will have a 3/4" or one inch keel running their length, so they go very straight with a small battery powered trolling motor as well as paddles. Aluminum canoes made by Grumman, Michicraft, Alumacraft, Starcraft and others can be bought for short money on NH, Me, Vt, and Mass Craigslist.

A 15' aluminum canoe makes an excellent Lake Winnipesaukee row boat for one rower plus a passenger in the stern when set up with a rowing rig in the center, and is incredibly stable to Lake Winnipesaukee waves and wakes. Call it a 'love canoe' because the rower and stern passenger face each other with the rower doing all the work.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by tis

We were saying this summer that you almost never see canoes any more or heaven forbid a row boat. Guess paddle boards and kayaks have replaced them which in most cases only hold one person. Sort of like cell phones in today's society, I guess, everybody lives in their own little secluded world. Although you often see two kayaks and paddle boards traveling together.

We have a terrific tandem kayak and they are easy to find at a variety of price points. Wild Meadows in Center Harbor, Kittery Trading Post..

[tis]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

We have a terrific tandem kayak and they are easy to find at a variety of price points. Wild Meadows in Center Harbor, Kittery Trading Post..

At least you can share!!

[map]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

LOVE that place! Huge work to get it up to par, but a very low entry fee. If I were a younger man...

Beautiful location, but the inside triggers my OCD big time! Lol!