View Tax

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Here's an interesting link, The Views, Views Views presentation (from Avitar - the assessing company that's at the front of most of this); http://www.avitarofneinc.com/download.html

They and Vision Appraisal are the two main assessing companies used in NH. Interestingly, Vision lets you look at assessments for free, Avitar charges for them.

[BlackCatIslander]

After looking at Paugus Bay Resident's post, I went to Avitar's site and looked at their slide show. On one of their slides they use "add" where "ad" is correct for advertisement and "and" where "an" is correct. I wonder if their appraisals also have errors.

[Skip]

There has been a lot of misconceptions & misinformation posted about the so called "view tax". In today's Union Leader editorial page they comment on misinformation given at a recent public hearing. The editorial can be read HERE.

Since the property tax system is the main source of government revenue for all local communities in New Hampshire, it behooves everyone paying same to become very familiar with its ways of implementation. It also is imperative that folks understand that it is not, per se, the value of your property that is causing tax bills to skyrocket but it is the exorbinant growth of government at the local level, as is pointed out correctly in the editorial!

[Paugus Bay Resident]

BlackCatIslander,
In the course of my business, I see a lot of appraisals and yes, many do contain errors. I've seen math errors, missing square footage, etc.


Skip,

It also is imperative that folks understand that it is not, per se, the value of your property that is causing tax bills to skyrocket but it is the exorbitant growth of government at the local level, as is pointed out correctly in the editorial!

How true!

[JPC]

Originally Posted by Skip

. It also is imperative that folks understand that it is not, per se, the value of your property that is causing tax bills to skyrocket but it is the exorbinant growth of government at the local level, as is pointed out correctly in the editorial!

Here is a question for you. If, and this is just hypothetical, the tax rate stayed the same as last year (i.e. no gov. growth) but your assesment increased because of the view or a new development next to you. Doesn't your property tax go up?

[Woodsy]

If your property increases in assessed value and the tax rate stays the same, then yes, your property tax bill will increase...

However,

If your local govt budget does not increase dramatically say 7%, and your towns assessed value increasesa bit more, say 9%, because of new development etc..then your tax rate per thousand would drop. This is what happened in Laconia and Meredith... the tax rate per thousand dropped over $1 because of the increased property valuations.

Laconia has just instituted a tax cap on spending. They have renegotiated all of the citys labor contracts so that they expire at the same time. This is the first year... no doubt its going to get painful in the next few years for some of the city unions and teachers when thier contracts expire...

Woodsy

[Skip]

Originally Posted by JPC

Here is a question for you. If, and this is just hypothetical, the tax rate stayed the same as last year (i.e. no gov. growth) but your assesment increased because of the view or a new development next to you. Doesn't your property tax go up?

Remember, the tax rate is set after the full valuation of the town is divided by how much revenue the town needs to raise.

Now, if in your case the tax rate per thousand remained the same, but your valuation went up...you indeed would be paying more in taxes. However, because the amount of money that needed to be raised, the whole pie as it were, remained the same size then you paid for a bigger portion of the pie. Someone, or a number of other people in that town, had their valuations go down and therefore paid for a smaller portion of the pie. The pie did not get bigger because of your example, only the portion of it paid by you grew.

In reality the pie (government spending) gets bigger every year. And the valuation of the town/city nrever remains the same either. What was happening in New Hampshire was that some communities, Dover for example, adjusted their valuation every year. Other communities, like Keene, would go on forever using an old evaluation. This caused extreme disparity in valuation from community to community, negatively influencing some of the factors used to determine the educational formula that declared a town either a donor or receiver community in reference to state aid to education.

Anyway, some people are seeing the actual valuation of their property finally being calculated into their tax bill, and its not a pretty sight!

The thing to remeber is that the greatest factor that drives your tax bill is how much your community is spending, followed by the economic tax base of your community (mainly residential properties versus available commercial properties) not the value of your property! Most people make the mistake of blaming the assessor when who they really need to be holding accountable is their town selectmen or town/city council!

Happy Thanksgiving,

Skip

[Weekend Pundit]

The big problem is that the so-called view tax is very subjective and not easily factored in. That is one of the biggest gripes that I think many have about it. Things like the number of bedrooms, baths, etc are easily quantified and can be plugged into a formula. A view, on the other hand, is not something that can easily be calculated.

One assessor may say a view adds 20% to the value of a property. Another may say it adds 150%. Which one is right?

Can a view be graded? Does a spectacular view of the lakes and the mountains add more value than a view of the Broads? Does a bad view, like of a factory or a landfill, decrease the value of a property?

One case where this 'view tax' has hurt an operating farm is the Gould Hill Orchard in Hopkinton. The owner's new tax bill came in on his 80 acre orchard and his taxes went up from ~$22,000 to $70,000- that's about $200 per day - which will force him to sell off the farm because he can no longer afford the taxes. An orchard that has been in operation for 242 years will cease to exist all because his farm has a view of the mountains to the north. I'm sorry, but that's just so wrong on so many levels.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

You're spot on in terms of the subjectiveness. What about seasonal views? In the winter, lots of us have views. As soon as there are leaves on the trees, viola, no view. IMHO, asses the property at market value and be done with it. The scariest part is that it seems most town charters allow the selectmen to make the decision with out a referendum. Sure, you can vote them out, but by that time the damage is done.

[Weekend Pundit]

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

You're spot on in terms of the subjectiveness. What about seasonal views? In the winter, lots of us have views. As soon as there are leaves on the trees, viola, no view. IMHO, asses the property at market value and be done with it. The scariest part is that it seems most town charters allow the selectmen to make the decision with out a referendum. Sure, you can vote them out, but by that time the damage is done.

My biggest worry is that an ice storm will come along some winter that will take down the tops of some of the trees below our property. That will give us a year round view! I don't know about you, but I'd be tempted to go out there with a lot of glue and ropes to try and re-attach the fallen branches in order to forestall any additional assessment!

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Weekend Pundit

One case where this 'view tax' has hurt an operating farm is the Gould Hill Orchard in Hopkinton. The owner's new tax bill came in on his 80 acre orchard and his taxes went up from ~$22,000 to $70,000- that's about $200 per day - which will force him to sell off the farm because he can no longer afford the taxes. An orchard that has been in operation for 242 years will cease to exist all because his farm has a view of the mountains to the north. I'm sorry, but that's just so wrong on so many levels.

I saw this story on WMUR.Part of the piece mentioned Gov Lynch bought a parcel of land from that orchard and is building a 2 million dollar house.FWIW.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I saw this story on WMUR.Part of the piece mentioned Gov Lynch bought a parcel of land from that orchard and is building a 2 million dollar house.FWIW.

The NH Union Leader online link in post #23, above, has a different version:

Leadbeater recently sold 8.3 acres of his land to Gov. John Lynch. The governor is building a $3.5 million home there with a swimming pool, tennis court and circular driveway.

I guess 1.5 million of the value is for the view?!?!

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I saw this story on WMUR.Part of the piece mentioned Gov Lynch bought a parcel of land from that orchard and is building a 2 million dollar house.FWIW.

The Government forces a sale of land and THE GOVERNOR buys a parcel?

The new eminent domain.

[Weekend Pundit]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I saw this story on WMUR.Part of the piece mentioned Gov Lynch bought a parcel of land from that orchard and is building a 2 million dollar house.FWIW.

Governor Lynch did indeed buy a parcel of land in an old orchard, but it is located in Exeter. The orchard in trouble is in the town of Hopkinton.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Weekend Pundit

Governor Lynch did indeed buy a parcel of land in an old orchard, but it is located in Exeter. The orchard in trouble is in the town of Hopkinton.

SIKSUKR was correct, the Governor bought his new parcel from the complaining apple orchard farmer in Hopkinton, not Exeter, New Hampshire.

However, the actual estimated price tag of the Governor's new home is closer to five million dollars. The Governor purchased an additional eight acres on top of several acres he had previously bought from the farmer. The Governor's building permit calls for a home of 11,000 square feet, a detached 3 car garage, a 20 by 40 swimming pool with cabana and a tennis court. The farmer now says he can probably put the rest of the orchard in some kind of conservation trust....but he was previously looking to sub-divide prior to the Governor's additional land purchase and his new assesed value.

Like Paul Harvey always says.....and now for the rest of the story!

[SIKSUKR]

Thanks for the clarification Skip.I knew he bought the land from the same orchard owner but methinks my memory on the dollar details was a bit off.The article that GWC refers to does say that Lynch is building a $3.5 million house.That link is actually in post #32 not 23.

[Weekend Pundit]

Originally Posted by Skip

SIKSUKR was correct, the Governor bought his new parcel from the complaining apple orchard farmer in Hopkinton, not Exeter, New Hampshire.

You're right, Skip. My error. From one article I Googled, I see the governor has retained many of the orchard trees on the property he bought and has given the Gould Hill Orchard owner the rights to harvest from those trees.

The orchard owner is hoping to use the procedes from the sale to put the rest of the farm under conservation easement to prevent any further development.

[fatlazyless]

As long as the property taxes were low and the general perception was that the big high priced waterfront prop taxes were being paid by the out-of-staters, then all the local residents were content. Now, with the run up in locally owned properties which have a view, some of the local residents are not so content.

In the recent NH state elections, Congressman Jeb Bradley said 'It was a fluke, and we did nothing wrong in running our campaign.' The NH Republican party put out roadside signs touting 'the NH Advantage' and showed a red NH surrounded by all blue states.

I wonder, and there's probably no way to really figure out, but how much of the state-wide Democratic win was due to President Bush & Iraq and how much was due to the NH property tax system?

[Eki]

our tax bill was $12000/yr for just 1 of our NH properties.

We sold both our properties and bought a single property here in Scottsdale, that is roughly equal to the combined value of the two properties sold in NH.

Our property tax now is under $2000/yr.

Sure, you say, there is an income tax ... but when you retire, your income is next to nothing (atleast on the books)... and so an income tax is of no consequence.

Point being, NH real estate tax is a horrible way to fund government, especially for those on fixed income(read: retired). The taxes keep going up even though the income does not. I guess, if one has gobs of disposable income ... what better way to dispose of it then paying NH real estate taxes.

[Waterbaby]

Originally Posted by Skip

The thing to remeber is that the greatest factor that drives your tax bill is how much your community is spending, followed by the economic tax base of your community (mainly residential properties versus available commercial properties) not the value of your property! Most people make the mistake of blaming the assessor when who they really need to be holding accountable is their town selectmen or town/city council!

I would add to this, those being held accountable include the local school board(s) and the county officials. Don't forget, the total property tax bill is made up of four tax segments: local government, local school, county, and the state education tax (and who knows how in the world that one is calculated!!!!!!) In reality, usually the local (town) portion of the bill is a very small percentage of the total tax.