Water Filtration Advice

[ishoot308]

I apologize for the length of this post in advance...

As my wife and I get older, we are getting tired of carrying the cases of Poland spring water to the camp for drinking. While we request any guests visiting to bring a case of water, it never seems to be enough and we always end up lugging more out... Not to mention the single use plastic usage we are also trying to reduce.

In an effort to decrease the lugging and plastic usage, my wife has finally agreed to try the lake water for drinking! We have what I thought was a fantastic filtration system and put it to use this past weekend... My wife thought it was the best water she had ever tasted (I agree!) and she was fully on board! Yippee! Happy wife happy life! So far so good!

My filtration system is as follows...

Water is drawn from the lake, 9' down and on a stand and goes through a 50 micron then 5 micron sediment filter. Water then goes through a properly sized ultraviolet tube filter. Both glass tube and UV bulb are new this spring. Before coming out of the kitchen faucet, the water goes through a large under sink carbon activated filter.

I then purchased a "Lifestraw pitcher" as a final filter which is supposed to remove 30+ contaminants including microplastics, bacteria, parasites and PFAS. Honestly the Lifestraw pitcher was just added to appease my wife as I thought all the filtration I already had was more than enough.

Anyway, now to my issue...So I decided to have my water tested by Nelson analytical labs. I actually did four standard water tests. #1 was untreated lake water. #2 was water through my kitchen faucet which goes through my primary sediment, UV and carbon activated filter. #3 was water through all filters including the Lifestraw pitcher and finally #4 was simply Poland Spring bottled water.

The first three water test (all lake water) all came back with a presence for Total Coliform Bacteria. Now I realize that Total Coliform bacteria is just an indicator that says there is a possibility but not certainty that disease organisms may also be present. There was NO ecoli bacteria noted in any of the tests which is good and all other tested indicators were well within standards.

The Poland spring test did have one out of standard indicator, a low PH level of 6.31 which really isn't an issue.

So my question is does anyone have any recommendations on what I can do to completely eliminate the Total Coliform Bacteria level?? I was thinking possibly a secondary under sink UV chamber??

Appreciate any experienced input!!

Dan

[fatlazyless]

You know the water vending machine in the front of Hannaford-Gilford sells water for 75-cents/gallon. This water is piped in City of Laconia water that gets run through reverse osmosis in this water vending machine. It accommodates filling a five gallon water container which will weigh 40-lbs.

[John Mercier]

Is the UV maybe deactivating it but leaving it in the water at a level of detection?

I think an RO might be the only option to remove it after the UV deactivates it.

[FlyingScot]

I have no technical expertise here, but following on John's RO post--we have a Kinetico system from Second Wind Water (actually, we've had several Kineticos at different houses over the past 30 years or so). Both the system and the service are excellent. The Second Wind guys have great expertise and passion. Kinetico looks expensive on paper, but it is a fraction of the cost of Poland Spring on a per gallon basis, and there's no lugging

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Is the UV maybe deactivating it but leaving it in the water at a level of detection?

I think an RO might be the only option to remove it after the UV deactivates it.

That's a great question and I'm not sure how I could find out...If it's deactivated I'm assuming you mean dead it probably poses no harm...I will call Nelson and see what they say.

Edited to add: Called Nelson they said the bacteria if noted as present is in fact living...

Thanks for the thought!

Dan

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I have no technical expertise here, but following on John's RO post--we have a Kinetico system from Second Wind Water (actually, we've had several Kineticos at different houses over the past 30 years or so). Both the system and the service are excellent. The Second Wind guys have great expertise and passion. Kinetico looks expensive on paper, but it is a fraction of the cost of Poland Spring on a per gallon basis, and there's no lugging

Flying;

Can you give me a ballpark on cost of this system installed?

Thanks for your input!

Dan

[SAB1]

I think I’d be getting some info from a water professional rather than here.

[John Mercier]

He is, he is using a professional lab.

[SAB1]

So my question is does anyone have any recommendations on what I can do to completely eliminate the Total Coliform Bacteria level?? I was thinking possibly a secondary under sink UV chamber??

Appreciate any experienced input!!

Dan

For the lab yup. Beyond that it doesn’t seem so. Regardless of there being no EColi now that doesn’t mean it won’t be there in a few months or a year. Probably worth a discussion. I also would be after PFAS test which when I had mine done last summer was a good wait. Possibly there are results available for this somewhere for the lake. To get that out if it’s there I believe an R/O is needed

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Flying;

Can you give me a ballpark on cost of this system installed?

Thanks for your input!

Dan

It's been a few years since our last one, and we've loved all of them, so I was not really paying attention to price, but I think the under sink system is $2,000-3,000 and the filters that are replaced every year or two are $300-500 depending on which ones you need. The filters last longer than the spec. When I compared prices to Poland Spring MANY years ago, Kinetico was 1/3 or maybe less than the price per gallon.

But I agree with the other poster above--you should call Second Wind Water. They'll give you the real scoop in just a few minutes

[Descant]

My mother spent the last couple of months of my pregnancy in the Glendale Cabins, presumably drinking unfiltered lake water. I've been drinking unfiltered lake water on Welch Island, both sides, since 1950. No ill effects. About 15 years ago I had my island tap water (south side) tested. Nothing remarkable. A small level of bacteria. Consultation with Dr. Moody, a White House hydrologist and Water Resources Director for OAS summed up that all lake water will have bacteria. All safe unless it causes some unexpected stomach upset. I recall one of the GIA guest speakers, noted that many bacteria are below the filtration threshold for most filter systems including R/O.

As many of you know, Merrimack, Litchfield and surroundings had PFAS contamination from St. Gobain Performance Plastics. At that time (2016) there were only a handful of labs in the country that could test for PFAS, and the test was hundreds of $$ and took time due to wait lists. That has improved, but your average lab still can't do PFAS due to expense of test equipment and they send it out. Our home well tested at low levels of PFAS (been drinking unfiltered 1977 - 2020. Reimbursed by a state settlement fund we (Second Wind) installed a Granulated Activated Carbon point of entry (whole house) filtration system ($5500). Replacing filters quarterly costs about $120/year. It is my understanding that PFAS contamination comes from identifiable industrial sources and those have been identified in NH, as well as countrywide. Thus the likelihood of PFAS in the lake is very small now. There are still some "small chain" related forever chemicals lurking, so there could be new findings in the future. Remember it was not that long ago that we could not detect PFAS, so it was not known to be a hazard.
LAKE:
Some, not all, members of our family don't want to drink lake water and they lug. They (through Second Wind) also installed an R/O under sink filter. Last summer they (family) never got around to changing the filter and went back to lugging. Labor is still involved but I believe there is municipal water available at the Glendale PD office to refill your jugs, no charge. Municipal systems have to test and publish results on an annual schedule, called a Consumer Confidence Report. https://www.gilfordnh.gov/file/4267/...eport_2025.pdf

Bottled water: may contain up to 10 ppb arsenic, less, depending on the brand, but NH, especially the SE, has a naturally high level of arsenic. Also, if you like the idea, there are also brands that contain fluoride, but harder to find. (Source: personal experience and served on the NH House Resources, Recreation and Development Committee 2000-2018)

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Descant

Consultation with Dr. Moody, a White House hydrologist and Water Resources Director for OAS summed up that all lake water will have bacteria. All safe unless it causes some unexpected stomach upset. I recall one of the GIA guest speakers, noted that many bacteria are below the filtration threshold for most filter systems including R/O.

Thanks Descant! After speaking to a friend who is a hydrologist for the state, he pretty much confirmed everything you said above...I may still look for a secondary UV or RO countertop or under sink filter to appease my better half...

Dan

[sunfishman]

I'd be checking my neighbors' septic systems, if they even have one. And I'd think twice about swimming in that area.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by sunfishman

I'd be checking my neighbors' septic systems, if they even have one. And I'd think twice about swimming in that area.

There was no no e-coli (Escherichia Coli) in the water samples tested so that rules out septic or other fecal born bacteria be it from humans or animals.

All lake and pond water has bacteria...the healthiest of lakes have bacteria in them. The question is, is it good or bad...since there is no feasible way to test for every form of bacteria, the idea is to kill it all or at least as much as possible.

E-Coli is the one you really need to look out for and ensure it is not entering your water system...

Dan

[Formula260SS]

Dan,

Use an undercounter RO, we (and all my neighbors) use this one which works perfectly. Water has been tested in the past, no issues. Been drinking from it for 5+ years. Winni water though an RO is the best tasting water you'll find.

https://www.qualitywaterforless.com/...BoC5EoQAvD_BwE

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Formula260SS

Dan,

Use an undercounter RO, we (and all my neighbors) use this one which works perfectly. Water has been tested in the past, no issues. Been drinking from it for 5+ years. Winni water though an RO is the best tasting water you'll find.

https://www.qualitywaterforless.com/...BoC5EoQAvD_BwE

Thanks Formula!

Great info!!

Dan

[codeman671]

At both of our island properties we used a whole house filter and a Trojan UV only. Never a problem.

On Mark we had deep water with a submersible pump. On Bear, a jet pump with very shallow water. Our pickup was in 3-4 feet of water (300-400 feet offshore), and only the height of a cinder block off the bottom. Depth was a problem there, to get it much deeper we would have been probably 800 feet out.

[fatlazyless]

Is there all that much difference between a shallow or deep well drilled into the ground on a Winnipesaukee island, and drawing water from the lake water? Neither one has filtered, treated and tested water like a N.H. municipal water system.

The amount of water used for coffee, cook'n and brush'n teeth is probably less than one gallon per day which can easily be lug-a-jugged from town water, ashore somewhere.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Is there all that much difference between a shallow or deep well drilled into the ground on a Winnipesaukee island, and drawing water from the lake water? Neither one has filtered, treated and tested water like a N.H. municipal water system.

The amount of water used for coffee, cook'n and brush'n teeth is probably less than one gallon per day which can easily be lug-a-jugged from town water, ashore somewhere.

Well…Mother Earth (soil) is the OG filter. I would think water that passes through (clean) soil is likely safer/better than directly from a lake/pond. IMO.

[John Mercier]

Even with the shallow wells, it was surface run-off contamination.

[The Real BigGuy]

I also installed a UV system when I reach my early 70s. Lugging 5 gallon jugs from home got old and to difficult fo an old man. Been using my Viqua system (5 micron sediment filter, 25 micron carbon filter, and UV tube) for 3 yrs without any issues. (Also installed a deep well pump in the lake and so nice not to have to go thru the pump priming process.)

One of the things people need to know/remember is that a UV system doesn't kill bacteria, it essentially sterilizes them so that they will not reproduce in your body. It is this reproduction of the bacteria that makes you sick.

This is also why it is a good idea decontaminate your piping system (chlorine bleach) at start up of a UV system. If you miss a pipe run, existing bacteria can multiply and back contaminant the water pipes.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

This is also why it is a good idea decontaminate your piping system (chlorine bleach) at start up of a UV system. If you miss a pipe run, existing bacteria can multiply and back contaminant the water pipes.

I would like to do this step at my place but need to figure out an easy way to bypass the septic tank. Not good at all to drain chlorinated water into the septic tank….

Dan

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I would like to do this step at my place but need to figure out an easy way to bypass the septic tank. Not good at all to drain chlorinated water into the septic tank….

Dan

Do you have a bypass for winterizing?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Do you have a bypass for winterizing?

I don’t believe I do…I normally just blow out all the water lines really well then use rv antifreeze in the drains, toilet and washing machine. Been doing it that way for near 20 years with no issues…

Dan

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I would like to do this step at my place but need to figure out an easy way to bypass the septic tank. Not good at all to drain chlorinated water into the septic tank….

Dan

For the 1 time a season you would do it, I would not worry about it.

[Descant]

I\m not the primary operator, but I expect we use bleach occasionally in the washing machine at the island. I know we do at home which is also on septic, but never gets winterized.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by codeman671

For the 1 time a season you would do it, I would not worry about it.

If I would of been smart, I would of done it this spring as I just had my septic tank emptied a couple weeks ago!

I am going to check under the house to see if there is some kind of a bypass valve that BillTex mentions. I would think there must be one somewhere along the drain pipe...

Dan

[John Mercier]

Bacteria from waste will repopulate the tank.
But if concerned, a little additive should be more than enough.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I would like to do this step at my place but need to figure out an easy way to bypass the septic tank. Not good at all to drain chlorinated water into the septic tank….

Dan

As others have said, you probably use chlorine bleach in the washing machine at home (I do) and it hasn't been an issue there. Also, the way things are set up at my place, I think most of the bleach ends up in the hot water tank. I have an outside shower so I let the hot water run (before turning on the tank) thru the shower for 5 min or so to flush as much bleach water as possible from the hot water side. I also let the cold run thru the shower and the hose bib, but that is only flushing between the treatment system and those 2 locations. I open up the sink valves, the lines to the washing machine (into a 5 gl bucket), the indoor shower valves and let them flush for 5 min. Then i flush the toilet 2 or 3 times. All this seems to eliminate any bleach odor.

[jazzman]

Has anyone tried the PURA filtration systems? The glass uv sleeve installs from below in the last cannister and the UV light from the top. Long story short is that requires about 7 feet of vertical space and my shed is of course smaller than that. I can drop the far right cannister about 6 inches stick the glass sleeve in it and try to get it installed without breaking it, but I'm guessing my success rate on that is going to be small and at $75 per sleeve, it's going to be expensive. What a totally stupid design.

I may just ditch it (really sucky because I just has it installed yesterday) the plumber knew it was an issue and the 1st glass sleeve never made it in without breaking it even with the unit laying on the ground with the cannister fully removed.

Can anyone suggest an alternate filter with top loading UV sleeve and bulb? Viqua Arros looks good, but I'm wonder what experience others have had. I really don't need the stress of all this every fall and spring.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by jazzman

Has anyone tried the PURA filtration systems? The glass uv sleeve installs from below in the last cannister and the UV light from the top. Long story short is that requires about 7 feet of vertical space and my shed is of course smaller than that. I can drop the far right cannister about 6 inches stick the glass sleeve in it and try to get it installed without breaking it, but I'm guessing my success rate on that is going to be small and at $75 per sleeve, it's going to be expensive. What a totally stupid design.

I may just ditch it (really sucky because I just has it installed yesterday) the plumber knew it was an issue and the 1st glass sleeve never made it in without breaking it even with the unit laying on the ground with the cannister fully removed.

Can anyone suggest an alternate filter with top loading UV sleeve and bulb? Viqua Arros looks good, but I'm wonder what experience others have had. I really don't need the stress of all this every fall and spring.

Why not a horizontal system??

[chocophile]

Our water system is nearly identical to the one you describe: 50 micron filter, 10 micron filter, carbon filter, UV sterilizer. Our water test by the state lab showed no coliform bacteria.

Before I put our system in use, I put about a half cup of chlorine into the sump of the 3rd filter (where the carbon one normally goes) and ran all the taps and showers at once until they smelled of chlorine. Then I let things sit for at least an hour and ran everything again until there was no smell.

I don't think this kind of one-time treatment hurts the septic system.

I think this is also good for the water in the hot water heater. I know you are not taking a hot water sample, but I am concerned about showering in water that has bacteria.

I agree with another post that said you probably have some contamination in the pipes downstream of the UV filter. Assuming that your UV chamber is working properly, you would not have bacteria on the test.

(Did you remove the faucet screen where you took the water sample? Apparently they can harbor bacteria.). Also, I think you should run the faucet for several minutes before taking the sample.

I think you could repeat this process every year or two without harming your septic system.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by jazzman

Has anyone tried the PURA filtration systems? The glass uv sleeve installs from below in the last cannister and the UV light from the top. Long story short is that requires about 7 feet of vertical space and my shed is of course smaller than that. I can drop the far right cannister about 6 inches stick the glass sleeve in it and try to get it installed without breaking it, but I'm guessing my success rate on that is going to be small and at $75 per sleeve, it's going to be expensive. What a totally stupid design.

I may just ditch it (really sucky because I just has it installed yesterday) the plumber knew it was an issue and the 1st glass sleeve never made it in without breaking it even with the unit laying on the ground with the cannister fully removed.

Can anyone suggest an alternate filter with top loading UV sleeve and bulb? Viqua Arros looks good, but I'm wonder what experience others have had. I really don't need the stress of all this every fall and spring.

I use a Viqua UV chamber (my whole system is Viqua). I remove the lamp an glass tube yearly to wipe it down. Easy to do & no issues since it was installed.

[brk-lnt]

Your current setup is more than sufficient for showering, washing dishes, toilet flushing, even brushing teeth (though I would understand if your wife was doubtful on the last one).


Add an undercounter RO system, I've been using Amazon systems (https://www.amazon.com/APEC-Water-Sy...00HRHHFPW?th=1). That will get you to essentially pure water for drinking.


The tradeoff for the cheap RO system is that its pump is powered by your water supply. That means you have about a 3:1 usage of water input to filtered output. The system uses the water pressure to drive the pump that forces water through the RO membrane, that "pump" water just goes down the drain. If you have concerns about your water availability (I don't think so), or your drainfield (maybe?) then that is something to consider. You can also redirect the pump drive water drain into a separate holding tank and use it for irrigation or other things.

The next step up would be a watermaker, like what you find on yachts and fishing boats. That will set you back about $3,500, and is probably overkill for what you need.