Boats have gotten too big

[jwellsnh]

Weekends on Lake Winnipesaukee have become an endless parade of wakes. One boat after another, from morning until evening. Along our shoreline on Long Island, the constant pounding is slowly washing away the bank. What used to be a peaceful day on the lake has become a battle against wave after wave.

It makes me wonder when the race for the biggest, fastest, loudest boat became more important than the lake itself. Has our culture become so focused on "look at me" that we've forgotten why people fell in love with Winnipesaukee in the first place?

I miss the days when families could enjoy the water without feeling like they were living in the middle of a speedway. Fishing, paddling, swimming, and simply sitting by the shore used to be part of the experience. Today, those moments are interrupted every few minutes by another oversized wake.

This is not about being against boating. Lake Winnipesaukee has always been a boating lake, and that's part of its character. But there is a difference between enjoying the lake and overwhelming it. Bigger boats create bigger wakes. Bigger wakes accelerate shoreline erosion, rock docks, make kayaking and paddleboarding more hazardous, and diminish the peaceful character that has drawn generations here.

Perhaps it's time to ask ourselves a simple question. Are we trying to enjoy the lake, or are we trying to impress everyone else on it?

I'd love to see a return to a little more courtesy, a little less horsepower, and a renewed appreciation for the tranquility that made Lake Winnipesaukee such a special place to begin with.

[Biggd]

It's all about the mighty $$$$$$$$$$ and the people trying to outdo each other. The boat companies and the marinas will keep building as long as there are buyers. It's the same with houses, bigger and better impresses neighbors, friends, and family
It's only going to get worse so your only escape would be to find smaller lake to move to, that's what I did.
Everyone strives for bigger and better. but with the money flying around now it's out of control. How big is too big?

[John Mercier]

The trend will turn.

The younger generation are having more trouble with the basics, so homes will get smaller and boating will diminish.

It just takes time.

[camp guy]

Maybe 25 years ago my wife's sister and her husband came to visit my wife and me at our Winter Harbor home. One nice day we decided to take a boat ride to Weirs and Paugus Bay to show them that side of the Lake. After Weirs, we explored Paugus Bay and then headed out to the main Lake. As we traveled the southerly shore of Paugus Bay headed to the bridge, my brother-on-law made a comment I'll never forget, "Look at all those people on the shore sitting in their plastic chairs watching all the people go by sitting in their plastic boats". How true still today, only, as others have said, today means bigger boats, bigger congestion, bigger wakes, bigger noise, and bigger shoreline erosion.
Unfortunately, some things never change.

[tis]

However, I have to say jet skis are terrible about following the rules. Some of their wakes aren't that small especially when they plow. And there are a lot of them. I know, not like the wake boats and big boats, but still.

[John Mercier]

I think those will be gone also.

The younger generation is going to have a housing and basic needs shortage, and most are just barely beginning to perceive what a cut in SS benefits and a large increase in Medicare premiums is going to look like.

Other than the basics, they are going to have to save from an early age a lot more than past generations.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I think those will be gone also.

The younger generation is going to have a housing and basic needs shortage, and most are just barely beginning to perceive what a cut in SS benefits and a large increase in Medicare premiums is going to look like.

Other than the basics, they are going to have to save from an early age a lot more than past generations.

They are going to be left generational wealth from their parents. I doubt very much that all these things will be gone!
Maybe if we have a deep recession, it could slow things down for a few years.

[John Mercier]

The generational transfer isn't as broad as one might suppose.

[SAB1]

Agree with Big. There will always be $. It’s really crazy how much money is out there. People buying houses and outbidding each other with cash buys. But to your point about the big boats, and I agree with your reasoning, it’s the States fault. They could have stepped in with regulations to restrict and didn’t. It’s on them.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The generational transfer isn't as broad as one might suppose.

It is in New England.

[John Mercier]

How many times on this site alone have we seen posters upset with losing the family cabin/cottage?

So to fund their retirements, those items will go on the block.
Others will come in to buy the homes, but thousands of the boats and other craft are not lakefront home owners.

It is no different than past crashes we have lived through in NH when the dominate generation moves on.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The trend will turn.

The younger generation are having more trouble with the basics, so homes will get smaller and boating will diminish.

It just takes time.

So they will tear down the mansions to build small cottages?

[Juiced06GTO]

Its an endless cycle, small boats get rocked with all the huge chop on the weekends by the bigger boats, so then they in turn upgrade to bigger boats to handle the water better, and then they contribute to the giant wakes, and then the next person buys bigger, and on and on.....

Boating anywhere from about Rattlesnake to Weirs/Meredith Bay really does suck on the weekends. I tired to convince our crew to go elsewhere on Saturday, but alas the group wanted to go back that way, so the Funship, a friends tritoon and a jetski made the trip into the washing machine. My back and knees are still feeling it!

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by BillTex

So they will tear down the mansions to build small cottages?

All the newest designs we are building are the small cottages.

Historically, some of the older mansions have been retrofitted; others have just fallen into such disrepair as to no longer be viable.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by jwellsnh

It makes me wonder when the race for the biggest, fastest, loudest boat became more important than the lake itself.

Have you forgotten there is a speed limit?

The good old days of a few guys firing up their flat bottom V-drives soon after sun rise when the lake was flat and hauling butt to over 100 mph are but a memory.

I miss those days.

[tis]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

All the newest designs we are building are the small cottages.

Historically, some of the older mansions have been retrofitted; others have just fallen into such disrepair as to no longer be viable.

Interesting. I am still seeing lots of huge houses. Where are the small cottages?

Houses that were built in the 80s, 90s are being torn down, it's hard to
believe. Is it because of the disrepair? They didn't take care of them?

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

All the newest designs we are building are the small cottages.

Are you a contractor/developer?

What is the $ range of these cottages?

Where are they located?

We may be interested in downsizing.

Thank you,
Bill

[SAB1]

Don’t argue with John. It’s pointless.

[tis]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Are you a contractor/developer?

What is the $ range of these cottages?

Where are they located?

We may be interested in downsizing.

Thank you,
Bill

It's the land that's of value so it's tough to downsize. Sure, the houses have value but these people moving in now are tearing them down so don't care.

[TiltonBB]

I disagree that larger boats are just to impress people.

In 1995 I had a slip at Mountain View and my home was 100 miles away. The commute was getting old. I sold a 25 foot cuddy cabin and bought a 34 foot flybridge cruiser, mainly for sleeping room and air conditioning. It enabled us to spend every weekend and some vacation weeks at the lake. It was as close to having a waterfront home as I could afford at the time.

When I was financially able to afford a home on the lake within two months I sold the larger boat and bought a 26 foot bowrider.

From my point of view, the biggest wake problem on the lake are wake boats. Last Friday one of them went up and down about 150' in front of the house creating waves that washed over my seawall. The erosion and stirring of sediment are a real problem.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by tis

It's the land that's of value so it's tough to downsize. Sure, the houses have value but these people moving in now are tearing them down so don't care.

I agree with you there. Developers are building up on what land is there, to the maximum the local fire dept allow. Then sell them off as condos with big bucks!
Of course, the guy across the street loses his water view and the street will be even more congested. Thanks God, the limitation of docks will help on the lake end. Except in cases where developers sleazed their way into more slips by 'annexing' an abutting vacant lot!

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I disagree that larger boats are just to impress people.

In 1995 I had a slip at Mountain View and my home was 100 miles away. The commute was getting old. I sold a 25 foot cuddy cabin and bought a 34 foot flybridge cruiser, mainly for sleeping room and air conditioning. It enabled us to spend every weekend and some vacation weeks at the lake. It was as close to having a waterfront home as I could afford at the time.

When I was financially able to afford a home on the lake within two months I sold the larger boat and bought a 26 foot bowrider.

From my point of view, the biggest wake problem on the lake are wake boats. Last Friday one of them went up and down about 150' in front of the house creating waves that washed over my seawall. The erosion and stirring of sediment are a real problem.

It's nice to see your thought process. But isn't it illegal to sleep on a boat on Winni?

It's hard for me to understand the attraction of anything more than a bowrider. So many of these boats look great for the ocean but kind of silly on the lake

[LoveLakeLife]

If the boat is tied up at a dock, it’s sleepable.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[retired]

The younger generation may not be able to afford boats, but grandpa sure can.
I see him pulling his grandkids tubing all summer long.

[John Mercier]

Grandpa is the current user.
We are still in the current generation and the current system.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Are you a contractor/developer?

What is the $ range of these cottages?

Where are they located?

We may be interested in downsizing.

Thank you,
Bill

I sell the materials.
Some are very high end in the materials.
We are selling more Trustile doors, when years ago... it was mostly just Jeldwen.
We are selling more Marvin Signature - and some want LePage, which is even higher - than we were years ago.

We are now seeing request for double stud walls. It used to be just standard 2x6 construction.

For the upper middle, we are seeing things cost more than they expect. And that creates the downsizing effect.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by tis

It's the land that's of value so it's tough to downsize. Sure, the houses have value but these people moving in now are tearing them down so don't care.

Correct.
A lot of times, even if they just want an easy update, it turns into more than bargained for.

Materials, even when installed to best practices wear out. And some of the newer materials don't have a lot of history behind them.

Others are configured parts, that my not even be available any more.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

It's nice to see your thought process. But isn't it illegal to sleep on a boat on Winni?

It's hard for me to understand the attraction of anything more than a bowrider. So many of these boats look great for the ocean but kind of silly on the lake

No, it is not illegal to sleep on a boat on Winnipesauke when it is in a slip. Many people at numerous marinas sleep on boats every night.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I sell the materials.
Some are very high end in the materials.
We are selling more Trustile doors, when years ago... it was mostly just Jeldwen.
We are selling more Marvin Signature - and some want LePage, which is even higher - than we were years ago.

We are now seeing request for double stud walls. It used to be just standard 2x6 construction.

For the upper middle, we are seeing things cost more than they expect. And that creates the downsizing effect.

This sounds even more high-end/expensive.
“Downsizing” and “less expensive” not one and the same.

IME nothing gets less expensive or smaller. The next generation (s) will continue to consume and grow whether it is boats or real estate. Regardless of how us “old timers” feel about this.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

No, it is not illegal to sleep on a boat on Winnipesauke when it is in a slip. Many people at numerous marinas sleep on boats every night.

So then for many a cabin cruiser is the equivalent of an R/V?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I sell the materials.
Some are very high end in the materials.
We are selling more Trustile doors, when years ago... it was mostly just Jeldwen.
We are selling more Marvin Signature - and some want LePage, which is even higher - than we were years ago.

We are now seeing request for double stud walls. It used to be just standard 2x6 construction.

For the upper middle, we are seeing things cost more than they expect. And that creates the downsizing effect.

I guess it depends on what your definition of large is? They may be down sizing from 7 and 8 thousand Sq Ft to 5 and 6 thousand Sq Ft, but that's still large by most people's standards.
They aren't tearing down those McMansions to build smaller homes unless they can sub-divide the land and build more than one, doesn't make financial sense.

[camp guy]

It is not fair to blame the State for everything. What about personal responsibility by the boat operator. Surely, the operator of a wake boat knows the boat creates a very large wake (hence, the name 'wake boat'), and surely, the operator knows this will create problems with the shoreline, but they continue to do so, day after day.
This situation calls for personal attention, but, sadly, to quote a member of this Forum, "common sense isn't".

[ApS]

If I can change the subject:



1) My first boats (1956) were docked with a line to the dock and one to a shoreline tree. Today, that would result in both boats (canoe and rowboat) being sunk to the sand--THEN getting beat up even more.

2) Vermont (next door) restricts "wake sports" to 500 feet from shore. Looking across Winter Harbor, even that seems an insufficient distance. A few years ago, wading neighbors' children were knocked over. On a recent shallow venture, even I was knocked off my feet. (!).

3) In an experiment from yesterday, I filled an ice tray with lake water and one with spring water. This morning, one ice tray had clear ice cubes while the other cubes were clearly green. In the bloated waters of late June, the cubes would've been brownish-gray.

4) Big boats should pay for remediation of Lake Winnipesaukee. I suggested 15 years ago that large displacement boats should face a doubling of fees. Now I think boats equipped with "wake-makers" should face a tripling of boating fees.

Then, maybe NH will find a way to pay for the lake's increasingly-obvious ailments.

Maybe complete facilities and infrastructure to handle the region's sewage load?

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by camp guy

It is not fair to blame the State for everything. What about personal responsibility by the boat operator. Surely, the operator of a wake boat knows the boat creates a very large wake (hence, the name 'wake boat'), and surely, the operator knows this will create problems with the shoreline, but they continue to do so, day after day.
This situation calls for personal attention, but, sadly, to quote a member of this Forum, "common sense isn't".

USCG col regs state the operator is responsible for the vessels wake.

Unfortunately, enforcement is the challenge…

[KPW]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

It's nice to see your thought process. But isn't it illegal to sleep on a boat on Winni?

It's hard for me to understand the attraction of anything more than a bowrider. So many of these boats look great for the ocean but kind of silly on the lake

It's not illegal in a marina like Mountain View Yacht Club.

[garysanfran]

Some of the fondest memories I have was in the '60's when my father bought a used 12' row boat for $25. My dog, Lady, and I, would spend all day rowing that thing with almost no other boats around.

The Lake was so quiet, that when my siblings and I heard a boat engine, we ran to the shore to watch it go by. And we could hear the old engines of The Mt. before it became visible around Stonedam.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

Some of the fondest memories I have was in the '60's when my father bought a used 12' row boat for $25. My dog, Lady, and I, would spend all day rowing that thing with almost no other boats around.

The Lake was so quiet, that when my siblings and I heard a boat engine, we ran to the shore to watch it go by. And we could hear the old engines of The Mt. before it became visible around Stonedam.

I didn't start coming to the lakes region until the early 70's, it was already pretty busy by then.
Then I remember the 80's boom to bust condo era. A couple buddies of mine bought condos in South Down Shores and lost their jobs, had to give them back to the bank.

[codeman671]

Not sure I agree with all of this. I think there are less large boats on the lake now than 10-20 years ago. Back in the day there were tons of large Sundancers, Rinkers, Montereys, Larsons, Chapparals, Regals, etc.

The dealers are not selling many of these any longer. Irwin still carries Searay but doesn't move that many of the large stuff. Rinker is no longer. Larson is no longer. Monterey has done away with their cruisers and trended more into day boats with an emphasis on outboard power. Chapparal, same thing. Silver Sands isn't carrying the big cruisers in the Regal line.

Also, loud performance boats such as Fountains and Baja are not being sold here any longer. The trend for performance boating has gone more towards outboard power which are not loud. There are large center consoles now and some performance cats running the lake, but certainly not loud like the days of old.

There are more and more pontoons these days, they aren't loud and don't throw a big wake.

Sure, there are always going to be people misbehaving. There will also always be curmudgeons complaining about everything, warranted or not.

I hear Squam is lovely...

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Not sure I agree with all of this. I think there are less large boats on the lake now than 10-20 years ago. Back in the day there were tons of large Sundancers, Rinkers, Montereys, Larsons, Chapparals, Regals, etc.

The dealers are not selling many of these any longer. Irwin still carries Searay but doesn't move that many of the large stuff. Rinker is no longer. Larson is no longer. Monterey has done away with their cruisers and trended more into day boats with an emphasis on outboard power. Chapparal, same thing. Silver Sands isn't carrying the big cruisers in the Regal line.

Also, loud performance boats such as Fountains and Baja are not being sold here any longer. The trend for performance boating has gone more towards outboard power which are not loud. There are large center consoles now and some performance cats running the lake, but certainly not loud like the days of old.

There are more and more pontoons these days, they aren't loud and don't throw a big wake.

Sure, there are always going to be people misbehaving. There will also always be curmudgeons complaining about everything, warranted or not.

I hear Squam is lovely...

I think boats have gotten bigger. In my younger days, most everyone I knew had a boat 22' or smaller with 16-18 foot boots very common. Now, it seems like 25' or bigger is recommended to safely navigate the lake. Pontoons too are bigger. I see it every time I go to Shep's - two boats park on the outermost spots of the "bowling alley" part of the public docks effectively blocking access to the usually open inner spots. It makes sense as I also feel how people use their boat has changed. With shorefront property so expensive, there are many more day boaters (valet, slip, or trailered) and if you are going to spend a day on the water, a bigger, beamier boat is more comfortable.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I think boats have gotten bigger. In my younger days, most everyone I knew had a boat 22' or smaller with 16-18 foot boots very common. Now, it seems like 25' or bigger is recommended to safely navigate the lake. Pontoons too are bigger. I see it every time I go to Shep's - two boats park on the outermost spots of the "bowling alley" part of the public docks effectively blocking access to the usually open inner spots. It makes sense as I also feel how people use their boat has changed. With shorefront property so expensive, there are many more day boaters (valet, slip, or trailered) and if you are going to spend a day on the water, a bigger, beamier boat is more comfortable.

I guess we need to define "big". To me, the big boats throwing the large, shore wasting wakes were always the big cruisers, not the 23-28' day boats. Given how much busier the lake has gotten boats are trending away from the 18-20 footers. 25' seems to be the sweet spot.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I think boats have gotten bigger. In my younger days, most everyone I knew had a boat 22' or smaller with 16-18 foot boots very common. Now, it seems like 25' or bigger is recommended to safely navigate the lake. Pontoons too are bigger. I see it every time I go to Shep's - two boats park on the outermost spots of the "bowling alley" part of the public docks effectively blocking access to the usually open inner spots. It makes sense as I also feel how people use their boat has changed. With shorefront property so expensive, there are many more day boaters (valet, slip, or trailered) and if you are going to spend a day on the water, a bigger, beamier boat is more comfortable.

Now, they are big luxury pontoons with multiple engines, they aren't loud, but they are fast.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by codeman671

I guess we need to define "big". To me, the big boats throwing the large, shore wasting wakes were always the big cruisers, not the 23-28' day boats. Given how much busier the lake has gotten boats are trending away from the 18-20 footers. 25' seems to be the sweet spot.

Agreed that bigger boats and bigger wakes are not the same thing. Just an observation on how the size of boats has evolved, for better or worse. Same thing with cars and trucks. My mid-80's Toyota pickup was significantly smaller than my first generation Tacoma. I just looked at a late model Tacoma and it is quite noticeably bigger than the other two.

[lakewinnie]

I think the wakes have gotten a lot worse over the last 30+ years I've been boating on the lake. The wake boat operators are throwing monster wakes - these have replaced the old cabin cruiser wakes, in a bad way.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by lakewinnie

I think the wakes have gotten a lot worse over the last 30+ years I've been boating on the lake. The wake boat operators are throwing monster wakes - these have replaced the old cabin cruiser wakes, in a bad way.

There is room on the lake for everyone to enjoy. I have a surf boat, but we use it mainly on weeknights, in the middle of the broads where my wake dissipates long before it could ever reach a shoreline. Also, in 50' or deeper areas where the under-surface turbulence can't reach the bottom. What drives me nuts is when we are one of the only boats out, the lake is wide open, and someone feels the need to blow right by us when surfing or when my rider is down when there are tons of space to pass by safely.

[Winilyme]

​Like most of you, I've witnessed the full spectrum of boat behavior here on Winni. Using wake boats as the example, there are those that, incredibly enough, are capable of surfing and having fun without horrible and high volume music. They also minimize lake/wake/people impacts by operating well away from shorelines. On the other hand, there are those that obnoxiously blare their music for everyone to hear while circling endlessly in smaller coves creating large and often destructive wakes. A similar range of behavior applies to all sizes and types of boats and no amount of wishful pleading will correct bad behavior or the resulting undesirable impacts to the lake. Unless, that is, it's accompanied by beefed-up regulations that are implemented and enforced. But there's a cost for that.

The backdrop here is that there are too many people that say they do NOT want increased regulation of this or that. Or, at least, they don't want the increased costs. Besides, they suggest, education or committees or whatnot are the answer...or worse, they point fingers yet offer no solutions. I'm on record as saying on this forum in the past that education et al is great but regulation and enforcement is the ONLY way to make headway on changing the destructive behaviors of those who just don't care. As has happened with the (on this forum anyway) oft-maligned communities to our south, the lakes region has grown tremendously over time and with that growth has come an influx of people from all walks of life. There's little consensus on anything and the in-migration has overwhelmed the systems of the past - thus the increasing need for rules. Taxes grow along with their associated communities because regulations and enforcement are the default to arresting (somewhat anyway) increasingly undesirable behaviors. This applies to on-water and off-water. Yet while constantly speaking out for change in forums like this, we resist it in the voting booth.

​I've also said here before that I don't want increased costs anymore than anyone else. Yet I know reality when I see it. Regulation, enforcement and the added costs that burden us are inevitable if we want to meaningfully curb behaviors that negatively impact the reason we're here in the first place. Either that - or move, or adapt.

[BillTex]

I think one of the major factors is people boating on the lake (s) that don’t live on the lake. They come in for a day/weekend to have fun and are not invested in the health/well being of the lake or its residents.
They come to party!

These folks don’t really consider the potential negative effects of wakes, noise, etc.
Not saying they don’t care…it is just a different mind set/perspective.

For those that live on the lake (s) it is the cost of living in a popular vacation destination.
If you trailer your boat “from away”, rent a condo/hotel room.
Spend some $$$.
You are going to party and enjoy every minute of it.

I do believe residents tend to respect the lake, and their neighbors.

[rsmlp]

I turn 70 on 8/8. I've been on the lake since I was 10. I had a 14 foor whaler with a 25 hp evinrude as a kid. I distinctly remember huge "cabin Cruisers" were common back then. Much more so than now. The difference is there are much FASTER boats on the lake today. I have no data to back me up but I'd say the most common boats on the water today are jetski's and toons.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

I turn 70 on 8/8. I've been on the lake since I was 10. I had a 14 foor whaler with a 25 hp evinrude as a kid. I distinctly remember huge "cabin Cruisers" were common back then. Much more so than now. The difference is there are much FASTER boats on the lake today. I have no data to back me up but I'd say the most common boats on the water today are jetski's and toons.

I agree with you! Jet skis and toons by far are the most common boat to see on the lake! Jet Ski's have really taken off in the past few years and understandably so as they are inexpensive compared to full size boats, good on gas and lots of fun! Big cruisers have always been here and yes, I agree, I think more so in years past.

As far as wakes go...its doesn't take a big boat to make a big wake. It's how that boat is captained is what makes the difference. I have a 22' Eastern than CAN throw a wake to rival any wake boat out there if I just let it plow through the water with the bow up but I don't do that....and heck the mount barely makes a wake!

The lake is busier now on weekends than I have ever seen it, so that has to play a factor in things. During the week however the lake is still fairly dead for the most part and that is when I enjoy it the most!

Dan

[tis]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I agree with you! Jet skis and toons by far are the most common boat to see on the lake! Jet Ski's have really taken off in the past few years and understandably so as they are inexpensive compared to full size boats, good on gas and lots of fun! Big cruisers have always been here and yes, I agree, I think more so in years past.

As far as wakes go...its doesn't take a big boat to make a big wake. It's how that boat is captained is what makes the difference. I have a 22' Eastern than CAN throw a wake to rival any wake boat out there if I just let it plow through the water with the bow up but I don't do that....and heck the mount barely makes a wake!

The lake is busier now on weekends than I have ever seen it, so that has to play a factor in things. During the week however the lake is still fairly dead for the most part and that is when I enjoy it the most!

Dan

True. Even the jet skis can make a big wake when they plow.

[retired]

It isn't just the size, but the number of large boats today. In the 60s there were a handful of 30+ cabin cruisers on the lake. Today the number of 30+ boats is greater and they go faster and create a larger wake.

[tummyman]

Wakeboat owners do not care. We have them come into our cove and the wakes on shore are such that many times we cannot even sit at the end of our dock. Then they pack up and go home. The problem is the State...they need to address this. The Shoreland protection folks get tingly when you want to cut a dead tree, but let these boats destroy the shorelines and nobody cares. SO sad......... We have the same issue..... bottom disturbed. Muddy water everywhere so they can play their game in shallow coves. If they want waves, why not do it on the open lake??????

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by tummyman

Wakeboat owners do not care. We have them come into our cove and the wakes on shore are such that many times we cannot even sit at the end of our dock. Then they pack up and go home. The problem is the State...they need to address this. The Shoreland protection folks get tingly when you want to cut a dead tree, but let these boats destroy the shorelines and nobody cares. SO sad......... We have the same issue..... bottom disturbed. Muddy water everywhere so they can play their game in shallow coves. If they want waves, why not do it on the open lake??????

It is not the shoreland protection folks, it was Governor Sununu. A few years ago they established a special committee to look at wake boats and make a recommendation. A dozen or so members appointed by the Gov from a variety of backgrounds--big lake resident, small lake resident, wake boat lover, tree hugger....But when the Governor appointed the panel, well over a majority of this "diverse" group were people who depended on motor boat sales for their livelihoods. So, no surprise, their recommendations were designed to make sure there was no negative impact on wake boat sales. Vile

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

It is not the shoreland protection folks, it was Governor Sununu. A few years ago they established a special committee to look at wake boats and make a recommendation. A dozen or so members appointed by the Gov from a variety of backgrounds--big lake resident, small lake resident, wake boat lover, tree hugger....But when the Governor appointed the panel, well over a majority of this "diverse" group were people who depended on motor boat sales for their livelihoods. So, no surprise, their recommendations were designed to make sure there was no negative impact on wake boat sales. Vile

We are facing a similar problem in the 673 home, 440 acre lake community that my Florida house is located in. The rule when I bought in 2021 was 250 HP and 26 foot maximum. There are 3 wake boats on the lake and one of them claims that he had his 500 HP wake boat "detuned" to 250 HP. Then they formed a "Lake committee" and the chairman owns a wake boat. A month ago, at the recommendation of the Lake Committee, the horsepower limit was dropped and for the moment it is unlimited horsepower. They cite a study by the Water Sports Industry Association that claims wake boats are not a problem. That is hardly a disinterested group. They exist and are funded by the people who build wake boats. All you have to do is Google "Wake boat erosion" and you will learn how bad they are.

[fatlazyless]

Just like Massachusetts largest lake, 25,000-acre Quabbin Resevoir in central Mass., Lake Winnipesaukee motor-boaters should be restricted to a 14' vee hull, side steering wheel with a 25-hp four-stroke, outboard.

[retired]

In order to enjoy boating on the big lake you need a big boat to handle the wakes put out by other big boats. The bigger the boats get, the more you need a bigger boat. A catch 22.

[LIforrelaxin]

Here is the scoop folks, the lake is a popular destination, and creates significant revenue for the state and local governments.... so they have no incentive to put regulations in place that would jeopardize that income.

Putting size, HP, and even speed regulations in place, does just that jeopardizes the revenue stream....... Notice the speed regulations were calculated to affect as few boaters as possible.....

The size of boats has increased dramaticly as MFG process have improved and as the amount of money people are willing to spend has increased.

When most of use where going up boats didn't have a lot of features, and often time sold at prices that allowed people to pay cash for them..... Slowly people started to take short term loans out, and then finally we got to the point where people take loans out for 10-15 years even on used boats..... with more money, came more features, with more features came bigger sizes.....on and on we go.....

With all that said..... now we have 25-30 ft boats being the norm... and yes it has made the lake rougher...... and it isn't going to change....

The solution is simple, find a way to boat during the week if the weekend traffic has become to much.....

[TheTimeTraveler]

I don't object to a larger boat but I DO OBJECT to those boats that sound like it's an airliner taking off as it goes by shorefront property. It's very annoying to listen to that crap which is detrimental to a lot of people's sanity.

The size of the boat isn't the issue, the excessive noise is!

Something needs to be done that is a consumer friendly which will BOTH satisfy the local waterfront owners, as well as satisfy the boat owners.

[John Mercier]

I don't think regulations would seriously risk the income from the lake.
Jet Skis are small, never really needed much horsepower, and they still eat at restaurants and rent rooms or homes.

I think the issue more is whether a regulation can be enforced and if we have the will to do so.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I don't think regulations would seriously risk the income from the lake.
Jet Skis are small, never really needed much horsepower, and they still eat at restaurants and rent rooms or homes.

I think the issue more is whether a regulation can be enforced and if we have the will to do so.

Which regulation (s)?

This makes no sense.

[John Mercier]

Any regulations.
The regulations have changed over the decades, and the lake is still thriving.

[Flotnjr]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

I don't object to a larger boat but I DO OBJECT to those boats that sound like it's an airliner taking off as it goes by shorefront property. It's very annoying to listen to that crap which is detrimental to a lot of people's sanity.

The size of the boat isn't the issue, the excessive noise is!

Something needs to be done that is a consumer friendly which will BOTH satisfy the local waterfront owners, as well as satisfy the boat owners.

There doesn't seem to be any loud boats on the lake... Which ones sound like an airliner?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Flotnjr

There doesn't seem to be any loud boats on the lake... Which ones sound like an airliner?

I didn't mind the loud boats or the fast boats. They go by and disappear in the distance in 30 seconds. The wake boats are a different story! Big wakes and loud "music" that can disturb the occupants of 100 to 200 homes at at time. They set up in an area and could spend over an hour there as everyone on the boat has a turn. Most of the owners seem clueless about how many people they are disturbing.

[fatlazyless]

Saw a large green Statement boat .... www.statementmarine.com/models ... maybe 35' with three large outboards, towed on a trailer going through Moultonborough, on Rt 25, yesterday. It said STATEMENT in large letters on the hull.

That's a heck of a lot more power and boat wake energy than a 750-lb 14' aluminum boat with a 25-hp outboard good for 25,000-acre Quabbin Resevoir in Massachusetts ....... .

So, welcome Statement boat to Lake Winnipesaukee, N.H.

[tis]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I didn't mind the loud boats or the fast boats. They go by and disappear in the distance in 30 seconds. The wake boats are a different story! Big wakes and loud "music" that can disturb the occupants of 100 to 200 homes at at time. They set up in an area and could spend over an hour there as everyone on the boat has a turn. Most of the owners seem clueless about how many people they are disturbing.

Yes. I would much rather have the loud boats back (most left since the noise ordinance went into effect-82 decibel) mainly for that reason. They go by and that's it.

[lakewinnie]

I was on this forum back in 2007/2008 when the latest rage was against so-called Go Fast Be Loud boats - arguments ensued ad nauseum as to how dangerous those boats were and the need for a speed limit. I don't believe the issue back then was how large the boat or the wake was - it was supposedly about noise and speed.

After nearly 20 years have passed since those pointless debates, my experience is that the slow wakes boats are much more dangerous than fast loud boats - this based on being swamped numerous times from the massive slow wakes created by such boats that were captained by clueless idiots. At least the captains of the fast loud boats were competent compared to some of the people driving wake boats today.

I wish I knew what the solution to the issue of wake boats was, short of more Marine Patrol manpower and enforcement of current rules.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by lakewinnie

I was on this forum back in 2007/2008 when the latest rage was against so-called Go Fast Be Loud boats - arguments ensued ad nauseum as to how dangerous those boats were and the need for a speed limit. I don't believe the issue back then was how large the boat or the wake was - it was supposedly about noise and speed.

After nearly 20 years have passed since those pointless debates, my experience is that the slow wakes boats are much more dangerous than fast loud boats - this based on being swamped numerous times from the massive slow wakes created by such boats that were captained by clueless idiots. At least the captains of the fast loud boats were competent compared to some of the people driving wake boats today.

I wish I knew what the solution to the issue of wake boats was, short of more Marine Patrol manpower and enforcement of current rules.

I don't understand why any comparison is needed--both bother many more people than the number of guys driving them. Listening to a loud boat that is 1 mile away as I type...

[ApS]

Originally Posted by lakewinnie

I was on this forum back in 2007/2008 when the latest rage was against so-called Go Fast Be Loud boats - arguments ensued ad nauseum as to how dangerous those boats were and the need for a speed limit. I don't believe the issue back then was how large the boat or the wake was - it was supposedly about noise and speed.

After nearly 20 years have passed since those pointless debates, my experience is that the slow wakes boats are much more dangerous than fast loud boats - this based on being swamped numerous times from the massive slow wakes created by such boats that were captained by clueless idiots. At least the captains of the fast loud boats were competent compared to some of the people driving wake boats today.

I wish I knew what the solution to the issue of wake boats was, short of more Marine Patrol manpower and enforcement of current rules.

I learned a lot from those "ad nauseum" and "pointless" debates.

1) That seven fatalities had occurred in recent years. For example, I'd heard nothing of the three in the ocean-racer that ran into a boathouse--with decapitations resulting.

2) That NH bills had been proffered, and the last was to have failed: but another fatality happened days earlier, such that the NH Governor signed the speed limit bill, saying he had no choice in the matter.

Just today, a speedboat opened his "Captain's Call" exhaust to make more "legal" noise. Again, I'd seen little that indicated a new (and serious) bill had appeared. The NHMP was quoted as saying the previous method involved too much risk with those frequent GFBL scofflaws.

As a thunderstorm struck Winter Harbor at 3:30 this Saturday afternoon, two large boats (~30') appeared confused. One headed to The Broads, then turned 180° in large storm-tossed waves. The other maintained its slow pace, while barely moving. (This followed ten minutes of advancing--and clearly audible--thunder and lightning).

Yes, the lake is a popular destination, but since the weekends are upsetting for those of us with quiet boats, we should simply surrender the lake to "the weekenders."

[tc_mike]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I don't understand why any comparison is needed--both bother many more people than the number of guys driving them. Listening to a loud boat that is 1 mile away as I type...

Wake boats cause damage for an extended period of time. Loud boats are annoying but fairly short lived. In my opinion I'd rather annoying than damaging. I get that some feel that loud (and therefore) fast boats crash into things and hurt people. I feel that all boats can crash into things and hurt people, though. Yes, I agree that both types do bother many people.

[The Real BigGuy]

I believe it all boils down to consideration. As long as there are people who have no consideration for others, noise and big wakes will be a problem. And guess what? The number of inconsiderate people is not decreasing in the near future. Add to this the state’s inability due to staffing, or lack of desire , to enforce existing laws and regs, and you have all the ingredients for a persistent issue. Do I like it, No! Do I think it can be reversed? No! Too many people have irons in this fire to ever get a consensus.

[BillTex]

Interesting:
https://youtu.be/fp6gHrqJwo0?si=deOwFr_ymHl5vuQ3

[imyourhuckleberry]

Wow that video was wild. Should be required watching for anyone involved with wake boats.
When I think about effects of wakeboats it was limited to what happens above the waterline- the wake itself and the effects on the shoreline, not what happens under the water to stir up sediment and keep it suspended in the water column.
Seems like it's a no-brainer to restrict this activity to deep water + 500 feet from shore

[BroadHopper]

Show this video to your representatives and tell them to enact laws as environmental impact. Let see what happens. The privilege few vs the world.

[codeman671]

This video is a joke. At the depths they are testing in, of course there will be damage. Didn't listen to it, but the second/deeper depth they tested at was 14 feet and the first was even less. A jetski can churn the bottom in 4-5 feet of water, so what do you expect a v-drive boat that drafts 30+ inches on average is going to do?

The report states that all boats can create damage and that surfing should be done in a minimum of 20 feet. My rule is a min of 30 feet, and usually run in 50+ feet, and do this solely in the broads or large open areas. It takes depth in order for the wave to form so those doing this in shallow coves are idiots!

No need to ban this, just create no go zones, or a larger distance from shore in order to surf/wakeboard (this was already shot down though).

[imyourhuckleberry]

Agree that wake surfing shouldnt be banned, but it makes sense that no-go zones are created that prevent sediment disruption.

This seems like a no-brainer

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by imyourhuckleberry

Agree that wake surfing shouldnt be banned, but it makes sense that no-go zones are created that prevent sediment disruption.

Did someone say this law was proposed but failed?

This was shot down:

https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files...0-20240306.pdf

This also failed:

https://www.billtrack50.com/billdetail/1655059

[TiltonBB]

The wakes are one problem with wake boats, the "music" is also a problem. The high mounted speakers, so that Junior can listen to his favorite tunes while disturbing hundreds of people, should be banned. Buy a waterproof headset if the music is that important to you!

There may be some responsible wake boat owners but there are many more of them who are not concerned with anything outside of their boat. A week ago one of them spend some time going up and down in front of my house. I had been sitting on the deck so I went inside and closed the sliders to block the noise. Not good enough, I could still hear it well.

Bring back the speedboats. If the noise was any bother to people the boats were out of sight in 30 seconds.

[Winilyme]

You'd think the wake boat industry would be in tune with increasing public concerns with their sport - and would be attempting to modify their community's behaviors before increasing regulations overtake them.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Winilyme

You'd think the wake boat industry would be in tune with increasing public concerns with their sport - and would be attempting to modify their community's behaviors before increasing regulations overtake them.

I believe they fought pretty hard to fail past limiting bills..

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by tis

I believe they fought pretty hard to fail past limiting bills..

That's a self-centered strategy that won't work forever. In pursuing it, they risk alienating themselves from the greater population of people that will increasingly push for those bills to pass.

[ApS]

No longer do boaters pack lunches to enjoy while anchored in a sunny Winter Harbor.

A neighbor whose 1947 cottage was built just 20 feet from the lake has had a barge install a breakwater.
It doesn't reach out into the lake. It has been built to save his foundation...!

An extraordinary sight occured on Wednesday: a canoe paddled by...!
Being too much of a white-knuckled adventure, I stored my canoe ashore 20 years ago.

Even tri-toons have to slow for oversized wakes upon entering Winter Harbor. Regular dual-pontoon boats--you're on your own.

On weekends, where three or four powerboats would be entertaining their kids towed in tubes--when the wake boats come out, they relocate elsewhere.

Water-skiers enter Winter Harbor at dawn to ply the quiet waters.

No electric foiling-craft operate on weekends.

A couple of wake boats are operating in the middle of Winter Harbor, at least 700-feet from either shore. This is in consonance with Vermont's recent law (of 700-feet distancing).

NH Legislators are sacrificing a lot of fun by listening to the wrong people.

IMHO...

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The wakes are one problem with wake boats, the "music" is also a problem. The high mounted speakers, so that Junior can listen to his favorite tunes while disturbing hundreds of people, should be banned. Buy a waterproof headset if the music is that important to you!

So all the jetskis that blast their music because they all come with speakers now don't bother you? The pontoon boats with the same speakers that blast their music, especially after dark, don't bother you?
My point it that most boats now have the speakers that are mounted high or on the back of the boat away from the cockpit. So you can't just pick out one specific boat for the loud music. And I know, people are going to say that "the wake boats go back and forth and don't move on", the Jetskis do the same, at least where I am.
I actually asked the sales guy this year at the boat show if I could get a jetski without speakers and his answer was "I'd have to special order it and wait for it to come in". I would assume for more money too
Honestly, I hear more of the other boats than I do the wake boats, at least on the broads.

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by chachee52

So all the jetskis that blast their music because they all come with speakers now don't bother you? The pontoon boats with the same speakers that blast their music, especially after dark, don't bother you?
My point it that most boats now have the speakers that are mounted high or on the back of the boat away from the cockpit. So you can't just pick out one specific boat for the loud music. And I know, people are going to say that "the wake boats go back and forth and don't move on", the Jetskis do the same, at least where I am.
I actually asked the sales guy this year at the boat show if I could get a jetski without speakers and his answer was "I'd have to special order it and wait for it to come in". I would assume for more money too
Honestly, I hear more of the other boats than I do the wake boats, at least on the broads.

Given the abundance of jet skis on the lake, in my experience, it's relatively rare to hear them blasting music. Same for toons. The wake boats that blare their music are usually WAY louder than those other boats and, yes, the noise is compounded by the fact that they are slow and tend to linger in the same area (plus, their music is terrible IMO - sometimes profane). It often seems that these folks just don't care how they are negatively impacting others.

I will note that I've also seen respectful wake boaters - see Codeman post 44 in this thread for example.

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by Winilyme

Given the abundance of jet skis on the lake, in my experience, it's relatively rare to hear them blasting music. Same for toons. The wake boats that blare their music are usually WAY louder than those other boats and, yes, the noise is compounded by the fact that they are slow and tend to linger in the same area (plus, their music is terrible IMO - sometimes profane). It often seems that these folks just don't care how they are negatively impacting others.

I will note that I've also seen respectful wake boaters - see Codeman post 44 in this thread for example.

I will say, it sounds like it depends on where you are on the lake what you get then. I am not complaining about any specific type of boat, just pointing out that that it happens with all kinds and to blame one type of boat for noise (or waves) is kind of silly in my opinion. It's the way of the world, just like when Motorcycles put speakers on the bikes too. I didn't get it then, don't get it now. But it is a thing that has progressed and is here.
As some of you know, I always look at things a little different and from different point of views, whether I believe if or not. And that's what I am saying here. Instead of looking at one specific thing to blame, look at the entire picture of a whole thing. Getting rid of wake boats will not, in my opinion, decrease the waves on the broads or around the Weirs or where ever. Boats going slower to plow through the waves to not get bounced around make bigger wave ironically. Is this the case everywhere, no, I get it. Small coves where there aren't a lot of boaters are seeing more boats go to those areas for "shelter" to do different water sports. I've seen it. I have noticed more boats anchoring in a lot of different spots through the lake that never had boats anchored there too. It's because there are more boaters that are here just for the day/weekend now. They are trying to get away from the traffic just like all of us.
I used to boat all weekend long, now I don't go out on Saturdays at all and wait until Sunday mid afternoon to venture out because of the waves (and idiots that don't know the rules). It's just a change in the times. Do I like it, no but it is what it is.
Again, I'm not disagreeing with anyone, just a different way of looking at things.

[tis]

In the last couple of years, we have heard many jet skis with loud music. Now I think they are worse than the wake boat-at least because of volume of boats. We see a ton of jet skis now. Boats other than wakes and jets, seldom have their music that loud unless they are anchoring and then sometimes it's loud and awful.

[TiltonBB]

I guess that at least the jet ski speakers are designed to entertain the riders but yes, some other people nearby will hear the music. As has been said above, the jet skis go by and, at least where I am, they don't linger in one area. The sound systems on most pontoon boats are designed to entertain the passengers, not the neighbors. Wake boats on the other hand............

Last year I bought a one year old 28 foot boat. The previous owner had installed four rear facing speakers high up on the arch. The first thing I did was turn the speakers so they were facing down and the sound went into the boat, not across the lake. (Even though my taste in music is excellent) I even shut off the stern speakers although if we were anchored in the right place I might tun them on.

[sky's]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I think those will be gone also.

The younger generation is going to have a housing and basic needs shortage, and most are just barely beginning to perceive what a cut in SS benefits and a large increase in Medicare premiums is going to look like.

Other than the basics, they are going to have to save from an early age a lot more than past generations.

i wont disagree with that comment John. younger or lets say todays generation just lives for today and thats it. there are exceptions however ive seen it many times. spend it all everything will be fine.
not drifting to far off topic? but you ever notice when you say "Thank you" the response is now "of course" or anything but "you're welcome" crazy times

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by sky's

i wont disagree with that comment John. younger or lets say todays generation just lives for today and thats it. there are exceptions however ive seen it many times. spend it all everything will be fine.

not drifting to far off topic? but you ever notice when you say "Thank you" the response is now "of course" or anything but "you're welcome" crazy times

Worse yet the response to Thank You has been Yup.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[John Mercier]

We teach sales to say "Have a nice day".

Short answers sometimes get misconstrued.

I was using "You also". But when a customer doesn't completely hear that. It comes out as something vulgar.

Speed and efficiency has become the name of the game. So Pro Sales generally just send a quote/order request to their designated Outside Sales Person.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by sky's

i wont disagree with that comment John. younger or lets say todays generation just lives for today and thats it. there are exceptions however ive seen it many times. spend it all everything will be fine.

not drifting to far off topic? but you ever notice when you say "Thank you" the response is now "of course" or anything but "you're welcome" crazy times

"Crazy times" over people using anything other than a singular response?! I think you just hit Peak Boomer.

I can't remember the last time I said "you're welcome." Just today, I've used "you got it," "sure thing," and, my current favorite, "no worries, friend." I sometimes finish with "have a nice day," "cheers," or a fist bump.

And I'm a Xennial, not a Gen Z, Alpha, or Beta—THOSE kids must really burn your cheese!

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

"Crazy times" over people using anything other than a singular response?! I think you just hit Peak Boomer.

I can't remember the last time I said "you're welcome." Just today, I've used "you got it," "sure thing," and, my current favorite, "no worries, friend." I sometimes finish with "have a nice day," "cheers," or a fist bump.

And I'm a Xennial, not a Gen Z, Alpha, or Beta—THOSE kids must really burn your cheese!

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

I'm almost a boomer, and I love the way language evolves. "Cheers" is often how Brits express gratitude; and "no worries" is mighty similar to the Spanish version of "you're welcome", "no problemo".

"Almost a boomer"?--Generation Jones (look it up)

[John Mercier]

What I saw was more the change in retirees housing expectations.

After the 2008 meltdown, as thing started coming back... the lake camps/cottages were being rebuilt... basic materials.
A few years later, high end materials.

Then came the McMansions. They would tear down the existing structure and build something new and much larger still with high end materials.

After covid, with the labor and materials price increases, to hit a budget number, the building would need to be large with more basic materials, or small with the high end materials.

Large with basic materials became the norm... now we are starting to see the shift to small with higher end materials - same price range just less focus on interior space.

I think given time, we will once again see the small with basic materials.

[Major]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I'm almost a boomer, and I love the way language evolves. "Cheers" is often how Brits express gratitude; and "no worries" is mighty similar to the Spanish version of "you're welcome", "no problemo".

"Almost a boomer"?--Generation Jones (look it up)

Based on our prior exchanges, I thought you were a lot older than me, LOL! It seems like we were born the same year if you are not quite a boomer but not solidly in the Gen X range, i.e., 1965.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

Based on our prior exchanges, I thought you were a lot older than me, LOL! It seems like we were born the same year if you are not quite a boomer but not solidly in the Gen X range, i.e., 1965.

Probably because I still regret that I missed the Summer of Love, haha. 1963