Smoking Ban Loses in Senate by 1 Vote

rander7823 · 03-08-2007, 02:30 PM

I like this live free or die thing......but it appears that there are exceptions...for example if you have money, buy property around a certain lake and intend to put up big houses or condo's that isn't allowed.

rander7823 · 03-08-2007, 02:40 PM

A bill has been brought before Congress to fund W.K.B.T.Y (We Know Better Than You ) Legislation. Anyone with lakefront property that is smaller than 4500 Sq ft will pay an additional $1.5M/year in taxes. If you have a view and are less than 4500Sqft it will be $.75M/year.
Plan your new homes accordingly

vrrooom · 03-09-2007, 10:23 AM

People need to take full responcibility for their actions or inactions. In this light, government should not be allowed to subsidise the poor choices people make. No Medicare or other govt subsidies for smoking related diseases, obesity or injuries resulting from unsafe behavior (eg head injuries if you ride without a helmet). We all know the dangers, and government should not financillaly or otherwise encourage these activities. Judges should throw out lawsuits that individuals file as a result of their foolish behavior or choices.

By the way I ride, and have smoked in the past.

GusMan · 03-09-2007, 12:38 PM

I recently visited a NH bar/restaurant and was stunned to find a smoke filled lounge. As a non-smoker, I forgot how spoiled I am here in Massachusetts where smoking is banned in almost all public spaces.

I know.... I know... I should keep my my butt here in Massachusetts!

Cheers...

Gusman

John A. Birdsall · 03-09-2007, 02:25 PM

It seems to me that as an X-smoker that smoke tends to bother me more today than when I was a chain smoker. And the cost of those cigerettes are now unbelievable. When I quite it was $.35 per pack, now well thats another story.

I would like to see the state pass a bill that would ban smoking from the lakes region, and especially on the lakes. Think of all them filters that are thrown into the lake and the ducks having to eat them, or the salmon thinking they are lures and eating them. Then someone catches a fish and now are eating cigerette filters. You know even the wet down nicotene are not good for the fish, It turns salmon into a pinkish color.

So all you smokers, go to the designated smoking area LA, or NJ

Mee-n-Mac · 03-09-2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

{snip} You know even the wet down nicotene are not good for the fish, It turns salmon into a pinkish color.

I'm no fish guy but I thought most people liked smoked salmon.

And I know "Mee" likes certain years of Smoking Loon ....

And ... hang on ....

(Yes dear, I'll stop now. No, I have no idea when I last took my meds.)

.

SteveA · 03-09-2007, 06:05 PM

From the USAToday:

Smokers and Overweight people save us all money

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...man/ncjf49.htm

Brewer720 · 03-10-2007, 12:56 AM

It used to be that when my wife and I were in the mood for a QUIET meal we would go into a restaurant and ask to sit in the smoking area even though neither of us smoke (well, ok I like the occasional cigar but I don't feel that one or two a year makes me a smoker).

I employed this strategy because it seems that in this day and age people no longer know how to be PARENTS to their children. Instead they seem to want to be their children's friend and let them carry on in whatever way they wish. They also seem to obsess that their child's pink little lungs remain that way forever so people with children never seemed to be interested in sitting with the smokers.

Fine, I was always willing to use my lungs to filter a little smoke out of the air in return for a quiet meal, but now that big brother is stepping in and making all restaurants totally smoke free I find that everytime that I go into a restaurant I have a noisy squawky little troll of a child sitting right next to me.

I have an idea. Let's put up another wall and dedicate an area of every restaurant a "child free" area where people who have children won't be allowed to dine. It sounds like a great idea if they won't let me sit with the smokers any more.

NonVoting Taxpayer · 03-10-2007, 08:04 AM

For all you people who think smokers cost the state a fortune in Medicare bills. Here's a novel idea. Why not take the $177 million raised by cigarette taxes annually in New Hampshire and dedicate it only for health care of smokers not covered by insurance. Would that stop your argument? Not advocating smoking but there are two sides to every story.

I second the motion for a kid's free zone in every restaurant. Maybe we can get that passed next after they get done with the smoke free areas and more decals on our boats.

Little Bear · 03-10-2007, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonVoting Taxpayer

I second the motion for a kid's free zone in every restaurant. Maybe we can get that passed next after they get done with the smoke free areas and more decals on our boats.

Excellent idea. This was one reason the Coe House was one of my favorite restaurants - NO KIDS ALLOWED!

Brewer720 · 03-10-2007, 11:50 AM

Wait a minute, you used the past tense in referring to the Coe House. I don't get to the lake nearly as much as I like to and when I'm there for a weekend Saturday night dinner is at the Coe House not only for the great food, but for their rather intolerant attitude toward bratty children. Please tell me that it's still going strong and that your use of past tense was only a mistake.

MaidenCove07 · 03-10-2007, 02:58 PM

Child-free restaurants - I'm there with (quiet) bells on.

I hate having a nice dining experience ruined by someone else's brat.
What's wrong with people? Kids DO NOT belong everywhere their parents go.

And how do they afford a meal at $12+ dollars times their 2.5 (and frequently more) "spawn"....much of which is left on the plate.

I was raised "children should be seen and not heard" and expect that from EVERY other parent in a restaurant.

I'm getting my wish with the smoking issue....I'd be OK if kids were next.

SAMIAM · 03-10-2007, 03:32 PM

Brewer,the Coe should be open by the end of April.The new owners will,I believe,allow kids but with so many rooms,I'm sure they'll all be put together out of harms way.When we ran it,the policy was adults only but ,often ,people would ask to bring in a well behaved child and we welcomed them .I guess it's PC now to allow your kids to throw temper fits in public....we didn't tolerate it in that setting.Occasionally,we'd get a complaint but mostly people thanked us and heartily approved. It's funny,even the parents of young children appreciated a night out without screaming,running and silverware banging.Not to mention the clean up at night.....no thrown food to worry about.Don't get me wrong...my little grandkids do lots of screaming as I chase them around, scare them and throw them in the water we love it......just don't want to hear it in nice restaurant.

,

Smitty1 · 03-10-2007, 03:46 PM

Your attitude about kids is pathetic!!!!!!!

Stay home and have peace and quiet!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaidenCove07

Child-free restaurants - I'm there with (quiet) bells on.

I hate having a nice dining experience ruined by someone else's brat.
What's wrong with people? Kids DO NOT belong everywhere their parents go.

And how do they afford a meal at $12+ dollars times their 2.5 (and frequently more) "spawn"....much of which is left on the plate.

I was raised "children should be seen and not heard" and expect that from EVERY other parent in a restaurant.

I'm getting my wish with the smoking issue....I'd be OK if kids were next.

Sunrise Point · 03-10-2007, 05:18 PM

I don't think that people who want peace and quiet (and a good meal) should have to stay home to find it. I don't get out to eat much anymore but when I do, having a out-of-control child or oblivious parent at the next table can ruin a meal.

I don't hate children, I have 3 of my own.

I did have to chuckle about sitting in the smoking area to escape sitting near children...I have done it too in the past.

MaidenCove07 · 03-11-2007, 12:45 AM

Sunrise - you hit it on the head.
We aren't child haters...just people who shouldn't have to duck flying mashed potatoes or scramble out of the way of wayward toddlers while paying more than $12 an entree....

Sunrise Point · 03-11-2007, 04:00 PM

I think that for what you pay when you go out for a meal, you should expect good food and a pleasant experience.

dpg · 03-20-2007, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaidenCove07

Sunrise - you hit it on the head.
We aren't child haters...just people who shouldn't have to duck flying mashed potatoes or scramble out of the way of wayward toddlers while paying more than $12 an entree....

Oh come on is it really that bad??? I agree, stay home. Kids are kids not the family dog.

Rose · 03-20-2007, 06:57 AM

Why would parents bring young children to a restaurant where the average price for a complete meal is over $50 per person? Get a babysitter. And certainly, don't let your children run around the restaurant screaming and doing a clog dance on the wooden stairs while you sit at your table yelling "Artemis, come here...Artemis, stop that...girls, behave." Why should my celebratory dinner be ruined because of parents who can't control their kids? And it's just teaching them that they can act however they want wherever they want.

My dog behaves better than that, and he's much cuter.

chipj29 · 03-21-2007, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose

Why would parents bring young children to a restaurant where the average price for a complete meal is over $50 per person? Get a babysitter. And certainly, don't let your children run around the restaurant screaming and doing a clog dance on the wooden stairs while you sit at your table yelling "Artemis, come here...Artemis, stop that...girls, behave." Why should my celebratory dinner be ruined because of parents who can't control their kids? And it's just teaching them that they can act however they want wherever they want.

My dog behaves better than that, and he's much cuter.

If one can afford to bring their children to a restaurant, why shouldn't they bring them?

Rose · 03-21-2007, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipj29

If one can afford to bring their children to a restaurant, why shouldn't they bring them?

I didn't say they couldn't, I said I didn't understand why they'd want to.

If their children are well-behaved, fine. But if they're not, they should stay at home with a babysitter until they are mature enough to handle it.

I know it's an old-fashioned notion, but parents need to set boundaries for their children, not coddle their every whim. Unless of course, those parents don't mind me imposing boundaries on their children when they infiltrate my mine.

EricP · 03-21-2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose

I didn't say they couldn't, I said I didn't understand why they'd want to.

If their children are well-behaved, fine. But if they're not, they should stay at home with a babysitter until they are mature enough to handle it.

I know it's an old-fashioned notion, but parents need to set boundaries for their children, not coddle their every whim. Unless of course, those parents don't mind me imposing boundaries on their children when they infiltrate my mine.

I agree, there's way to much coddling out there now.

Brewer720 · 03-11-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty1

Your attitude about kids is pathetic!!!!!!!

Stay home and have peace and quiet!!!!

Thank you, you illustrated my point perfectly!!! I threw it out there, and it took a while for someone to take the bait but finally I can set the hook.

Yes, and if you want to enjoy fresh air you can stay home and do it.

rander7823 · 03-12-2007, 09:08 AM

I agree with you on the kids being out of control, however they don't cause cancer to the poeple sitting aruund them. Also, if that parent was to apply some old fashioned disipline there are probably 10 people in that same restaurant complaining about the noise that would report those parents to the authoities for child abuse. I have 3 girls ages 12,11 and 9. They sit politely in the restuarant order filet and salads and the occaisional Lobster Bisque which make the wait staff look at us oddly for comfirmation. They understand going out is a privilege and not a right. And if they acted up we would leave with doggy bags and there would be consequences.
Now let's talk about the rude behavior of the 60+ crowd who we have to dodge on our roads and sometimes when their foot slips on the pedal our living rooms.

Woodsy · 03-12-2007, 10:17 AM

Amazing... great points of view!

We as humans were blessed with the greaest gift.... individual choice! Slowly but surely our individual choice is being taken away piece by piece... and we let it happen.

The government has required warning labels on cigarette packs since the 60's... people know its bad for them yet continue to smoke. The government knows its bad and very expensive from a health care perspective, yet they haven't banned cigarettes? Why? Because they love the tax revenue!

I am not a smoker, but I don't think smoking should be banned... Let the business owner decide what is right for his business. I personally go to non-smoking establishments because thats my choice.

If the state or feds wants to increase revenue, I have no problem with an increase on tobacco products or alcohol.

Woodsy

Brewer720 · 03-12-2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Amazing... great points of view!

We as humans were blessed with the greaest gift.... individual choice! Slowly but surely our individual choice is being taken away piece by piece... and we let it happen.

Woodsy

You're right Woodsy, and you just happened to push my "hot" button, but let me explain why.

I was at an air show some years ago and they had a B-17 that you could take a tour of. As I exited the aircraft I saw a photograph of a squadron of B-17s and one of the planes was falling out of formation, inverted, and smoking badly. As I looked at this photograph an older gentleman approached me and informed me that the plane that was falling out of formation had been his aircraft and that it had just been shot down over Austria. He and the rest of the crew had bailed out and had survived but had spent the remainder of WWII in a Nazi POW camp. I shook his hand and thanked him for the sacrifice that he and so many others had made protecting our country. What he revealed to me next saddened me greatly. He told me that if I really appreciated the sacrifice of veterans I would treat the freedom and liberty that they all fought and died for with more respect. To quote him, "We didn't fight and die to preserve the particular brand of freedom that we are forced to live with today. If you get on a motorcycle you HAVE to wear a helmet... if you get in a car you HAVE to wear a seatbelt... even your dog has to be licensed and on a leash at all times. If you really appreciate the sacrifices that were made to protect freedom you would be putting up more of a stink every time the government tried to take some of it away."

I tried to inform him that I share his oppinion of government intrusion into my life and hopefully I made him understand that there are those of us out there that not only don't NEED the governemt running our lives, but also don't even WANT the government to run them.

So there it is, the opinion of a man who put it all on the line to protect our country and the ideals that it was founded on. I wonder how many other veterans, especially those of the "greatest generation" feel the same way?

rander7823 · 03-12-2007, 12:48 PM

I have no problem with the government getting out of our business as long as they don't come looking to me for tax dollars to support the stupidity of others.
Oh wait that's how they get elected.

ApS · 03-10-2007, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveA

From the USAToday:
Smokers and Overweight people save us all money

OK, then...forget people.

Abandon tobacco smoke for your dog's sake!

03-08-2007, 02:30 PM	#1
rander7823 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 303 Thanks: 550 Thanked 40 Times in 24 Posts	Live Free or Die....unless I like this live free or die thing......but it appears that there are exceptions...for example if you have money, buy property around a certain lake and intend to put up big houses or condo's that isn't allowed.

03-08-2007, 02:40 PM	#2
rander7823 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 303 Thanks: 550 Thanked 40 Times in 24 Posts	W.K.B.T.Y Funding Proposal A bill has been brought before Congress to fund W.K.B.T.Y (We Know Better Than You ) Legislation. Anyone with lakefront property that is smaller than 4500 Sq ft will pay an additional $1.5M/year in taxes. If you have a view and are less than 4500Sqft it will be $.75M/year. Plan your new homes accordingly

03-09-2007, 10:23 AM	#3
vrrooom Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Several things come to mind People need to take full responcibility for their actions or inactions. In this light, government should not be allowed to subsidise the poor choices people make. No Medicare or other govt subsidies for smoking related diseases, obesity or injuries resulting from unsafe behavior (eg head injuries if you ride without a helmet). We all know the dangers, and government should not financillaly or otherwise encourage these activities. Judges should throw out lawsuits that individuals file as a result of their foolish behavior or choices. By the way I ride, and have smoked in the past.

03-09-2007, 12:38 PM	#4
GusMan Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 133 Thanks: 1 Thanked 45 Times in 26 Posts	Smoking ban... I recently visited a NH bar/restaurant and was stunned to find a smoke filled lounge. As a non-smoker, I forgot how spoiled I am here in Massachusetts where smoking is banned in almost all public spaces. I know.... I know... I should keep my my butt here in Massachusetts! Cheers... Gusman

03-09-2007, 02:25 PM	#5
John A. Birdsall Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Norwich, CT Posts: 599 Thanks: 27 Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts	clean mountain airs It seems to me that as an X-smoker that smoke tends to bother me more today than when I was a chain smoker. And the cost of those cigerettes are now unbelievable. When I quite it was $.35 per pack, now well thats another story. I would like to see the state pass a bill that would ban smoking from the lakes region, and especially on the lakes. Think of all them filters that are thrown into the lake and the ducks having to eat them, or the salmon thinking they are lures and eating them. Then someone catches a fish and now are eating cigerette filters. You know even the wet down nicotene are not good for the fish, It turns salmon into a pinkish color. So all you smokers, go to the designated smoking area LA, or NJ

03-09-2007, 06:05 PM	#7
SteveA Deceased Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 2,311 Thanks: 1,070 Thanked 2,054 Times in 497 Posts	and yet another view! From the USAToday: Smokers and Overweight people save us all money http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...man/ncjf49.htm __________________ "Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry he'll be a mile away and barefoot!" unknown

03-10-2007, 12:56 AM	#8
Brewer720 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Leominster, MA, USA Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A quiet meal is ALWAYS nice It used to be that when my wife and I were in the mood for a QUIET meal we would go into a restaurant and ask to sit in the smoking area even though neither of us smoke (well, ok I like the occasional cigar but I don't feel that one or two a year makes me a smoker). I employed this strategy because it seems that in this day and age people no longer know how to be PARENTS to their children. Instead they seem to want to be their children's friend and let them carry on in whatever way they wish. They also seem to obsess that their child's pink little lungs remain that way forever so people with children never seemed to be interested in sitting with the smokers. Fine, I was always willing to use my lungs to filter a little smoke out of the air in return for a quiet meal, but now that big brother is stepping in and making all restaurants totally smoke free I find that everytime that I go into a restaurant I have a noisy squawky little troll of a child sitting right next to me. I have an idea. Let's put up another wall and dedicate an area of every restaurant a "child free" area where people who have children won't be allowed to dine. It sounds like a great idea if they won't let me sit with the smokers any more.

03-10-2007, 08:04 AM	#9
NonVoting Taxpayer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 98 Thanks: 3 Thanked 24 Times in 10 Posts	Cigarette Tax For all you people who think smokers cost the state a fortune in Medicare bills. Here's a novel idea. Why not take the $177 million raised by cigarette taxes annually in New Hampshire and dedicate it only for health care of smokers not covered by insurance. Would that stop your argument? Not advocating smoking but there are two sides to every story. I second the motion for a kid's free zone in every restaurant. Maybe we can get that passed next after they get done with the smoke free areas and more decals on our boats.

03-10-2007, 11:50 AM	#11
Brewer720 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Leominster, MA, USA Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Past Tense???? Wait a minute, you used the past tense in referring to the Coe House. I don't get to the lake nearly as much as I like to and when I'm there for a weekend Saturday night dinner is at the Coe House not only for the great food, but for their rather intolerant attitude toward bratty children. Please tell me that it's still going strong and that your use of past tense was only a mistake.

03-10-2007, 02:58 PM	#12
MaidenCove07 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Manchester in Winter, Weirs Beach in Summer & Fall Posts: 132 Thanks: 29 Thanked 17 Times in 7 Posts	Heck yeah! Child-free restaurants - I'm there with (quiet) bells on. I hate having a nice dining experience ruined by someone else's brat. What's wrong with people? Kids DO NOT belong everywhere their parents go. And how do they afford a meal at $12+ dollars times their 2.5 (and frequently more) "spawn"....much of which is left on the plate. I was raised "children should be seen and not heard" and expect that from EVERY other parent in a restaurant. I'm getting my wish with the smoking issue....I'd be OK if kids were next.

03-10-2007, 03:32 PM	#13
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,896 Thanks: 334 Thanked 1,676 Times in 586 Posts	Brewer,the Coe should be open by the end of April.The new owners will,I believe,allow kids but with so many rooms,I'm sure they'll all be put together out of harms way.When we ran it,the policy was adults only but ,often ,people would ask to bring in a well behaved child and we welcomed them .I guess it's PC now to allow your kids to throw temper fits in public....we didn't tolerate it in that setting.Occasionally,we'd get a complaint but mostly people thanked us and heartily approved. It's funny,even the parents of young children appreciated a night out without screaming,running and silverware banging.Not to mention the clean up at night.....no thrown food to worry about.Don't get me wrong...my little grandkids do lots of screaming as I chase them around, scare them and throw them in the water we love it......just don't want to hear it in nice restaurant. ,

03-10-2007, 05:18 PM	#15
Sunrise Point Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Meredith Center / Winnisquam Posts: 250 Thanks: 87 Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts	Seen and not heard I don't think that people who want peace and quiet (and a good meal) should have to stay home to find it. I don't get out to eat much anymore but when I do, having a out-of-control child or oblivious parent at the next table can ruin a meal. I don't hate children, I have 3 of my own. I did have to chuckle about sitting in the smoking area to escape sitting near children...I have done it too in the past.

03-11-2007, 12:45 AM	#16
MaidenCove07 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Manchester in Winter, Weirs Beach in Summer & Fall Posts: 132 Thanks: 29 Thanked 17 Times in 7 Posts	Ditto Sunrise - you hit it on the head. We aren't child haters...just people who shouldn't have to duck flying mashed potatoes or scramble out of the way of wayward toddlers while paying more than $12 an entree....

03-11-2007, 04:00 PM	#17
Sunrise Point Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Meredith Center / Winnisquam Posts: 250 Thanks: 87 Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts	Double Ditto! I think that for what you pay when you go out for a meal, you should expect good food and a pleasant experience.

03-20-2007, 06:57 AM	#19
Rose Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 498 Thanks: 62 Thanked 71 Times in 32 Posts	Yes, it really is that bad Why would parents bring young children to a restaurant where the average price for a complete meal is over $50 per person? Get a babysitter. And certainly, don't let your children run around the restaurant screaming and doing a clog dance on the wooden stairs while you sit at your table yelling "Artemis, come here...Artemis, stop that...girls, behave." Why should my celebratory dinner be ruined because of parents who can't control their kids? And it's just teaching them that they can act however they want wherever they want. My dog behaves better than that, and he's much cuter.

03-12-2007, 09:08 AM	#24
rander7823 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 303 Thanks: 550 Thanked 40 Times in 24 Posts	Once again you miss the point I agree with you on the kids being out of control, however they don't cause cancer to the poeple sitting aruund them. Also, if that parent was to apply some old fashioned disipline there are probably 10 people in that same restaurant complaining about the noise that would report those parents to the authoities for child abuse. I have 3 girls ages 12,11 and 9. They sit politely in the restuarant order filet and salads and the occaisional Lobster Bisque which make the wait staff look at us oddly for comfirmation. They understand going out is a privilege and not a right. And if they acted up we would leave with doggy bags and there would be consequences. Now let's talk about the rude behavior of the 60+ crowd who we have to dodge on our roads and sometimes when their foot slips on the pedal our living rooms.

03-12-2007, 10:17 AM	#25
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	Amazing... great points of view! We as humans were blessed with the greaest gift.... individual choice! Slowly but surely our individual choice is being taken away piece by piece... and we let it happen. The government has required warning labels on cigarette packs since the 60's... people know its bad for them yet continue to smoke. The government knows its bad and very expensive from a health care perspective, yet they haven't banned cigarettes? Why? Because they love the tax revenue! I am not a smoker, but I don't think smoking should be banned... Let the business owner decide what is right for his business. I personally go to non-smoking establishments because thats my choice. If the state or feds wants to increase revenue, I have no problem with an increase on tobacco products or alcohol. Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

03-12-2007, 12:48 PM	#27
rander7823 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 303 Thanks: 550 Thanked 40 Times in 24 Posts	Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness I have no problem with the government getting out of our business as long as they don't come looking to me for tax dollars to support the stupidity of others. Oh wait that's how they get elected.