No Dogs at Boat Launch

[Knot Droolin']

Nightwing,

Way off the subject but, I disagree that crating a dog is anyway to show you are a great dog lover or trainer. I do agree you have the right to do so, but I do not think it is in any way a good argument for being a good dog owner.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Knot Droolin'

Nightwing,

Way off the subject but, I disagree that crating a dog is anyway to show you are a great dog lover or trainer. I do agree you have the right to do so, but I do not think it is in any way a good argument for being a good dog owner.

At the risk of running this thread off topic, I have to strongly disagree with this statement. We have 3 dalmations, who we crate when we are not home. It keeps the dogs safe, they can't eat something that could hurt them, and they can't eat the furniture while we are gone. I could train them until I am blue in the face, but if they see something they want to eat, they will.

I crate my dogs. While that alone does not make me a good dog owner, it certainly is part of it.

[Knot Droolin']

Originally Posted by chipj29

At the risk of running this thread off topic, I have to strongly disagree with this statement. We have 3 dalmations, who we crate when we are not home. It keeps the dogs safe, they can't eat something that could hurt them, and they can't eat the furniture while we are gone. I could train them until I am blue in the face, but if they see something they want to eat, they will.

I crate my dogs. While that alone does not make me a good dog owner, it certainly is part of it.

Again, crating is NOT part of good dog ownership! It may be needed for certain dogs but not for most. Especially those who take well to training.

[Argie's Wife]

Alton received money from the state that had certain strings or standards or whatever you wish to call them, attached to them. One of them was the "no dogs" issue. I believe it was mainly for health reasons. This issue was addressed at the deliberative session, earlier this year. One town member was concerned that it provided an "unwelcomed" feel to the area, however there were some town members who worked very hard on this project to make sure it was completed.

It's still a huge improvement on the way that beach was before all the hard work was done... I know Pete Bolster was a main player in that. He's now a selectman and could probably address your concerns much better than I can here. (I was just at all the meetings...)

Nonetheless, I would think the sign would more pertain to people hanging out there with Fido more than it would to those who were simply "passing thru" to launch a boat that Fido was going to also ride in.... Wouldn't you think? :-)

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by Knot Droolin'

Again, crating is NOT part of good dog ownership! It may be needed for certain dogs but not for most. Especially those who take well to training.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1696

[Rose]

I think the point that Knot Droolin' is trying to make is that Chipj29's post seems to imply (though this is may not be their intent) that if one doesn't crate, they're not a good owner. The link you posted, Nightwing, is an excellent reference for when and when not to crate.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Knot Droolin'

Again, crating is NOT part of good dog ownership! It may be needed for certain dogs but not for most. Especially those who take well to training.

I cannot disagree strongly enough. I will leave it at that.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by Knot Droolin'

Again, crating is NOT part of good dog ownership! It may be needed for certain dogs but not for most. Especially those who take well to training.

I disagree. In my opinion (both experiential and research/reading), almost all dogs could benefit from crate training. I'm not saying if you don't crate train, you won't have successful training....I am saying it's a GREAT way to go, for you and for the dog.

[hazelnut]

Here we go:

You said: "The 2 big German Shepherds that the owner seems to have that are there off lead a LOT is enough deterrant for me."

You are deterred from going somewhere due to the fact that there are dogs roaming free. You fear for your safety and that of your dog(s). Is this or is this not correct?

I said: "If you are deterred from going to that boat ramp at downings due to dogs on the loose, how do you think non dog lovers feel about your dogs and anyone else's dog at a boat ramp?"

Regardless of the location, public, private, the beach, spain, the moon, whatever you are afraid to go there. So now lets go back to the boat ramp. There are owners there with unleashed dogs including yourself: "..Since the only one of my dogs ever off lead for maybe 10 minutes at a time.."

I was merely asking you to look at this from the point of view of someone who does not like dogs. They my be deterred from going to the ramp because they are fearful of the unleashed dogs. You yourself said you wouldn't go somewhere because of 2 German Shepherds running around. You fail to see that people at a public boat ramp might look at your dog in the same light that you view the German Shepherd. I know that seems impossible because you think your dog is the most gentle wonderful docile creature in the world. I know as a dog owner we can become blind to anyone who feels otherwise.

As to comparing this to the speed limit debate?!?!?!?! We are talking about having to legislate against people using a BOAT RAMP for DOG SWIMMING. Not legislating how fast you can put your boat in or boat ramp etiquette or boat launching safety or boats tied to the ramp. I do/did sympathize but I'm starting to lean to the too bad so sad side. All suggestions and comments here seem to be met with a real sour attitude.

[LilacHill]

Regardless of the location, public, private, the beach, spain, the moon, whatever you are afraid to go there.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Uh NO. I am not afraid to go there at all. Do I think it would be a good idea? Absolutely NOT. Being that Downing's is PRIVATE PROPERTY if those dogs and mine got into something mine would be at fault because DOWNING'S IS PRIVATE PROPERTY. As I said comparing public property to private is apples to oranges. Besides isn't this the place where property owners come to vent about people treating their private property as public? And here you are telling someone to do just that.

As to my dog off leash, a down stay or a sit stay to take pictures is the same as patrolling a parking lot or being off lead in the water how? And FYI 9 times out of 10 when Cuddles was off lead for pics there was never anyone else around anyway at the beach, launch, or park.

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

As to comparing this to the speed limit debate?!?!?!?! We are talking about having to legislate against people using a BOAT RAMP for DOG SWIMMING. Not legislating how fast you can put your boat in or boat ramp etiquette or boat launching safety or boats tied to the ramp.

I was more leaning towards the comparison that it seems we've added a new rule/law (speed limit on lake, no dogs on boat ramp) to compensate for an existing unenforced rule/law (150' safe passage, dogs on leash). I hate when a new requirement is added for the sake of compensating for an unenforced existing one. The way I see it, if you show up at the ramp and someones dogs off lead, ask them to put it on. If they don't, call the cops. If the cops don't come, run the dog over (since the cops not coming anyway ).

But it also seems I'm in the minority here so I raise the white flag!

[NightWing]

Dogs on leashes soil the land and water the same way as dogs on the loose.

A dog on a leash is just as much in violation as a loose dog if it is in the restricted area. The sign says "No Dogs," not "No Loose Dogs," so telling someone on the ramp to leash up their dog isn't solving the problem.

This whole thread is about perceived entitlements, in that a taxpayer has a right to use any public property in any way they choose. Could the skateboarders drag a half pipe to the ramp because they have no place to go and their parents are taxpayers? Could tax paying artisans set up easels on the ramp because they have no place to paint? Could some taxpaying campers set up a tent and campfire next to the ramp because they want to be near the water and they don't want to pay camping fees? Of course not because it is a public BOAT RAMP, not for mixed use at the whim of any taxpayer who has individual wants and needs. It all comes down to common sense.

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by NightWing

It all comes down to common sense.

OK, I'll put the flag away for that one. The issue is that dogs used to be allowed, and now they aren't. We're all speculating as to why, as no one has gone and checked. My comment about the dogs on leash, had you bothered to read the hole thread, was in response to those speculating the rule was based on loose dogs. My comments about doggie doo doo in the water were in response to speculation that was the cause. I don't remember ever saying it was ok for your dog on a leash to go potty in the lake. Or even that it was ok for the doggie to poo in the lake in the first place.

I'd venture a guess that if something you enjoyed doing, and had been able to do until now, was suddenly taken away from you, you might feel the same way. Perceived entitlements are a wonderful thing, when they're yours and not someone else's.

Try an ounce of common sense yourself.


Flags back up.

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

OK, I'll put the flag away for that one. The issue is that dogs used to be allowed, and now they aren't. We're all speculating as to why, as no one has gone and checked. My comment about the dogs on leash, had you bothered to read the hole thread, was in response to those speculating the rule was based on loose dogs. My comments about doggie doo doo in the water were in response to speculation that was the cause. I don't remember ever saying it was ok for your dog on a leash to go potty in the lake. Or even that it was ok for the doggie to poo in the lake in the first place.

I'd venture a guess that if something you enjoyed doing, and had been able to do until now, was suddenly taken away from you, you might feel the same way. Perceived entitlements are a wonderful thing, when they're yours and not someone else's.

Try an ounce of common sense yourself.


Flags back up.

Sir, I am sorry if you felt my comments were directed at you. If they were, I would have quoted your post, as I have done here in this post.

I have read the whole thread several times. The original poster said that her dogs were leashed almost all the time and the issue of leashed/not leashed had been spoken about by others. My comments about same were generic. At no time did I accuse you or anyone else of allowing their dog to defecate in the lake.

I agree that apparently nobody has sought an explanation from the town office, but I would venture that the response would be short and not subject to conditions or rebuttal.

Finally, I have had many things taken away/changed/realigned in my life and I have accepted those I could not change and learned to live with them. That was then, this is now.

As a final thought, I am not sure if you are agreeing with my statement about perceived entitlements. I believe that is what started this entire thread.

OK, my common sense just kicked in.

[Weirs guy]

Thanks Nightwing, I can't even remember what my point was again.

I feel LilacHill's pain as some day I too may have only the local boat ramp to let my dog swim at, and I'd hate to loose it.