No Dogs at Boat Launch

Alton Mumma · 05-07-2007, 07:53 PM

I haven't been in Alton all that long, but I do remember when you could take the dogs to the boat ramp. I think it changed some time last summer. Bummer too, it was a great activity for the dogs and their owners, it gave them access to the lake but away from public swim areas. Not sure why it's changed, perhaps pmj is right and it was because of irresponsible pet owners not doing their "doo-ty." We just keep our wiener dog home now and he plays in the kiddie pool, but he's little (only 10 lbs) so he can get his splash on in pretty well at home, for bigger dogs it's not quite as fun.

Not sure why all the hub-bub over different training techniques. Guess I'm a bad dog owner too, since my Stewie has a crate.

He loves it in there, it's his little "safe zone" he's got his fluffy little bed in there and it's a nice snug den-like environment.

NightWing · 05-07-2007, 08:19 PM

I was not in favor of crating my puppy either, but it was explained to me that it is a natural tendency for canines to seek some sort of den.

My particular dog, an Italian greyhound can never be left unattended and loose, no matter what the situation. He is a gaze hound and will chase after anything that moves if it suits his fancy. His ability to dart into traffic while chasing a leaf or a butterfly is just too great a risk to take.

As a condition of purchase, I had to sign an agreement to keep the dog under my control at all times and never to let him run free. Of course, a fenced yard might be an exception but it would have to be a tall fence because this breed is like an antelope and can jump extremely high.

My dog loves his crate because he can feel comfort and safety. When he is tired, he will go to the crate.

Pineedles · 05-07-2007, 08:38 PM

I got a pet peeve! GET RID OF THE DANCING BANANAS! It's driving me crazy!!! Dog on ramps, in crates, playing crazy eights are fine. Just get rid of these dancing bananas and I'll be glad to donate.

Knot Droolin' · 05-07-2007, 08:51 PM

Nightwing,

As you say, in your case a crate it is required to keep you dog safe. As I stated:

"I do agree you have the right to do so, but I do not think it is in any way a good argument for being a good dog owner."

I agree many people crate, but because it is a sensitive subject, I did not think it was a good argument given the context in which it was given. Meaning crating is not a prerequisite of good ownership. I completely agree with you on leashes!

Here is a thought for all the dog owners out there:

I pick up ALL dog potty I come across. I figure there are probably only about 10% of the dog owners out there that are not responsible. If the rest of us responsible owners chip in, we (us and our dogs) won't be kicked out of every place we enjoy going. This is extra work, but you will never get irrespnsible people to be responsible so we all need to help bag that potty!

abay · 05-07-2007, 08:57 PM

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here - the Alton boat ramp is adjacent to a public swimming area. There are usually a lot of people there, and as has already been mentioned, I'm afraid it is the few irresponsible dog owners who have ruined it for the rest.

Aquadeziac · 05-07-2007, 09:12 PM

Judging by what I see at the Gilford boat launch, it comes down to the few can ruin it for the many. I can't count the number of times I have tried to launch or retrieve and someone and their dog are occupying the ramp as a doggie playground playing fetch in the water and I have actually had to get out and ask them to get their dog out of the water so I can use the ramp. Its these inconsiderate rubes that ruin it for the responsible owner that merely wants a quick splash for the dog and a little walk. If you let the good people do it you have to let the rubes also. And, unfortunately, the only way to stop the rubes is to stop everyone. Life is not fair, but we must all deal with it.

NightWing · 05-07-2007, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knot Droolin'

Nightwing,

As you say, in your case a crate it is required to keep you dog safe. As I stated:

"I do agree you have the right to do so, but I do not think it is in any way a good argument for being a good dog owner."

I agree many people crate, but because it is a sensitive subject, I did not think it was a good argument given the context in which it was given. Meaning crating is not a prerequisite of good ownership. I completely agree with you on leashes!

Here is a thought for all the dog owners out there:

I pick up ALL dog potty I come across. I figure there are probably only about 10% of the dog owners out there that are not responsible. If the rest of us responsible owners chip in, we (us and our dogs) won't be kicked out of every place we enjoy going. This is extra work, but you will never get irrespnsible people to be responsible so we all need to help bag that potty!

In no way did I mean that it was an indicator of good ownership. I was just stating a fact. Dogs do not need a romp in a lake to have a good life.

Bear Islander · 05-08-2007, 08:33 AM

I think the real issue here is dog poop in the lake. Most beaches do not allow dogs. When a dog poops near a lake where do you think it ends up? What happens the next time it rains?

The bacteria content of the lake is a serious issue. Many older lake homes are spending up to $50K to upgrade septic systems. The lake is my drinking water supply.

If the State Legislature wants to protect the lakes they should worry less about pine needles and make a law that requires scooping within x number of feet of the lake.

SIKSUKR · 05-08-2007, 09:04 AM

I think someone needs an attitude adjustment.Boat ramps are for BOATS.Not for DOGS.As Aqua stated,I've had issues with some dogs in the way at the Gilford ramp.It's not the dogs fault but the careless owner.I've also stepped in dog crap twice there. Why is that hard to understand?Actually,on the other side of the fence,I see the same guy at the ramp with his old dog quite often and he is very aware of ramp users and immediately has his dog move out of the way.Not a really big deal.I have more of a problem with kids playing on the ramp in the water with mom saying nothing with she sits right next to the "no swimming at ramp" sign.Oh well!

LilacHill · 05-08-2007, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I think someone needs an attitude adjustment.Boat ramps are for BOATS.Not for DOGS.As Aqua stated,I've had issues with some dogs in the way at the Gilford ramp.It's not the dogs fault but the careless owner.I've also stepped in dog crap twice there. Why is that hard to understand?Actually,on the other side of the fence,I see the same guy at the ramp with his old dog quite often and he is very aware of ramp users and immediately has his dog move out of the way.Not a really big deal.I have more of a problem with kids playing on the ramp in the water with mom saying nothing with she sits right next to the "no swimming at ramp" sign.Oh well!

Yeah well we are the ones that immediately get out of the way the second a boat approached the town dock or a trailer even enters the lot by Shibley's. We also do more than our fair share of picking up peoples' dog crap they leave behind. My dogs have been jumped by loose dogs at the ramp while they have been ON lead.

If the ramp is not in use for boats it is just sitting there vacant. What is needed are ENFORCED rules of conduct. Heck I'd even pay for a pass every summer to be able to bring my old dysplastic dog to swim. She does better with daily swims. Again this is Alton not Gilford.

ApS · 05-08-2007, 09:47 AM

Earlier, Alton should have put up signs like Vancouver, BC, has:

RLW · 05-08-2007, 10:53 AM

I believee there is another good reason for not letting them swim at the Alton ramp is that they are about 20 feet from the public swimming area. One could go and let their dogs swim in the nice pond just across the street from the fire station and then they would not be by swimming areas or boat ramps and it is a great place to sit and eat ones lunch while watching their dog (s). Problem solved. Now that wasn't hard was it???

LilacHill · 05-08-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLW

I believee there is another good reason for not letting them swim at the Alton ramp is that they are about 20 feet from the public swimming area. One could go and let their dogs swim in the nice pond just across the street from the fire station and then they would not be by swimming areas or boat ramps and it is a great place to sit and eat ones lunch while watching their dog (s). Problem solved. Now that wasn't hard was it???

No that isn't a solution. Have you seen the size of the alligator snapping turtles in that pond and the stream down off it? Turtles that size can handily remove a dog's leg and they have been known to do so. So that's a solution, how?

RLW · 05-08-2007, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilacHill

No that isn't a solution. Have you seen the size of the alligator snapping turtles in that pond and the stream down off it? Turtles that size can handily remove a dog's leg and they have been known to do so. So that's a solution, how?

If you have alligators in that pond you had better run don't walk to see the ACO in Alton as they are not allowed in the inland lakes and ponds. As far as turtles, you do not think they aren't any large ones in the big lake that could take a dogs leg off. If so you are sadly mistaken. Our small lake up on the mountain have huge turtles 20 to 24inches across, but my dog hasn't lost a leg nor have the grandchildren been bothered by them. I think this topic has gone far enough. It appears a sign has been posted and we as adults just need to bit the bullet and obey what it says.

LilacHill · 05-08-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLW

If you have alligators in that pond you had better run don't walk to see the ACO in Alton as they are not allowed in the inland lakes and ponds. As far as turtles, you do not think they aren't any large ones in the big lake that could take a dogs leg off. If so you are sadly mistaken. Our small lake up on the mountain have huge turtles 20 to 24inches across, but my dog hasn't lost a leg nor have the grandchildren been bothered by them. I think this topic has gone far enough. It appears a sign has been posted and we as adults just need to bit the bullet and obey what it says.

Alligator snapping turtles are not alligators. They stay away from places where there is a lot of activity as they lie in wait for prey then strike. They have a tongue that acts as a lure. The ponds by the fire station have a hefty population of them we have seen them and photographed them. Even saw a large one killing a smaller one. So the fact they haven't bothered you at Hills Pond doesn't surprise me as they would hang out by less active spots. That's my point. There is all liklihood of a dog or a person even getting bitten by one over at the fire station.

Who says I let the dogs go swimming anyway? Implying that we didn't take the dogs home and forget their swim and that we didn't obey the signage is wrong. And why has it gone far enough? I'm not the only other responsible person in Alton who has lost a spot to take the dogs because of irresponsible people.

Here's an idea, why don't we just take them to your house? You're actually closer to us anyway..............

NightWing · 05-08-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilacHill

...................

Here's an idea, why don't we just take them to your house? ..........

Here's another idea...........why not entertain them at your home?

LilacHill · 05-08-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

Here's another idea...........why not entertain them at your home?

It's a public boat launch. If permits are needed fine I have NO problem doing that at all. As to why the kiddie pool etc. won't work at home I do believe that's been covered a few posts up............

NightWing · 05-08-2007, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilacHill

It's a public boat launch.

Yes, not a public dog launch.

Why not pick up the phone and call the town offices and ask of/complain to them?

Weirs guy · 05-08-2007, 01:05 PM

So let me get this right, a dog doing his business at the boat ramp near the public beach is worse then your boat leaking god-knows-what at the same spot? Of course I'm sure each of you responsible boat owners make sure you don't have any leaks, but it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone. Maybe we should ban the boat launch all together?

I see no reason why dogs can't use the boat ramp along with the boats. If we're going to outlaw all of the little things that inconvenience us because a few inconsiderate individuals ruin it then there goes driving, boating, vacations, eating out, watching tv, vacations at the lake, tourism....

WINDinmySOCKIES · 05-08-2007, 03:17 PM

Holy Cow!! As I read all of this, I can only think .......
The dogs are much smarter than us humans because they can't talk, and unlike us, are easily trained.

GTO · 05-08-2007, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WINDinmySOCKIES

Holy Cow!! As I read all of this, I can only think .......
The dogs are much smarter than us humans because they can't talk, and unlike us, are easily trained.

Maybe we should be put in crates

mcdude · 05-08-2007, 05:41 PM

Karen:
I am curious as well. I would direct my question to the Alton Parks and Recreation Dept by e-mailing them at parksrec@alton.nh.gov

If you hear from them, be sure to let us know what they had to say. Will dogs also be banned from the newly refurbished town beach?

When my "Hooch" and "Lady" were still alive, they would love to take a ride in the Jeep and take a dip at the boat ramp at either Manning Lake or Crystal Lake...right in your neck of the woods. Also the beach at the Boy Scout Camp at Lake Eileen is usually vacant most of the year and is a publicly accessible property. Usually, no one is around and you can let the doggies off the leash to romp around!

McD

Bear Islander · 05-09-2007, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

So let me get this right, a dog doing his business at the boat ramp near the public beach is worse then your boat leaking god-knows-what at the same spot? Of course I'm sure each of you responsible boat owners make sure you don't have any leaks, but it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone. Maybe we should ban the boat launch all together?

I see no reason why dogs can't use the boat ramp along with the boats. If we're going to outlaw all of the little things that inconvenience us because a few inconsiderate individuals ruin it then there goes driving, boating, vacations, eating out, watching tv, vacations at the lake, tourism....

Yes! Dog poop at the boat ramp is far worse than what comes out of your boat bilge. Each poop contains billions of coliform bacteria that can make humans sick or even kill them. We spend billions of dollars on septic systems for human waste, yet permit dogs, who also have coliform bacteria in their feces, to poop within feet of a drinking water supply.

There is a huge business around the lake in upgrading septic systems. This is a particular problem on the islands due to higher costs and fewer options. This is important work because many unexplained infections and illnesses come from swimming in or drinking contaminated water. Small children the elderly and those with suppressed immune systems can die from this pollution.

The bacteria level of our lake is often very high, especially in the summer. Beaches have been closed many times because of high bacteria counts. When do you hear about beaches closed due to boat bilge?

Here is some reading on the subject

http://www.usatoday.com/news/science...7-dog-usat.htm

http://www.lmvp.org/Waterline/spring2003/scoop.htm

Weirs guy · 05-09-2007, 12:21 PM

I see your points Bear Islander, but I still say that an occasional doggie present is no worse than:

1. the rainbow covered slick on the water I have to swim through behind my neighbors boats.
2. mcmansion mclawn mcfertilizers.
3. whatever the bears, deers and other critters are doing in the lake and on the shore.
4. whatever the birds hanging out by the pier do in the water.

tricia1218 · 05-08-2007, 11:26 AM

As a dog owner I agree, if dogs are not allowed they are not allowed.

People claim their dogs are well behaved, and they are not. My dog doesn't bark, meanwhile the dog is barking, I clean up after my pet, you pick up everything? hmm. It is like dog owners (myself included) are sometimes so oblivious to their pets behavior. And of course my dog is not included in this grouping he is a perfect angel ;-)

This'nThat · 05-27-2007, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Earlier, Alton should have put up signs like Vancouver, BC, has:

Looks like Vancouver, BC has fallen victim to the PC crowd: Dog Guardians????!! Vancouver has decided that people no longer are "dog owners" because PETA says that's not cool.
I don't think Alton should become like Vancouver at all.

SteveA · 05-28-2007, 06:09 AM

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Sometimes there is a very simple solution.

If that fails... try a Disguise.

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Gavia immer · 05-11-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

It's not the dogs fault but the careless owner.I've also stepped in dog crap twice there.

Not "keeping a proper watch"?

Allowing a dog to swim in the lake is shared fun for dog and family. Summer fun is what it's all about. A yellow tennis ball tossed for Fido into the lake or a Frisbee toss, are a big part of summer on the lake for Labs and Retrievers, the most popular breeds of dogs today. I'm also reasonably certain that dogs don't poop while swimming.

Sharing the cruise with your dog seems like the right thing to do, too. But boaters who take long cruises also know that dogs refuse to poop while on board. Where else to let them take a "comfort break" than back at the boat ramp? Of course, you'd be expected to "pick up after".

Locals who let their dogs cool off need a space that's "public". A public boat ramp that is not in use is OK with me.

05-07-2007, 07:53 PM	#1
Alton Mumma Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Alton NH Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I haven't been in Alton all that long, but I do remember when you could take the dogs to the boat ramp. I think it changed some time last summer. Bummer too, it was a great activity for the dogs and their owners, it gave them access to the lake but away from public swim areas. Not sure why it's changed, perhaps pmj is right and it was because of irresponsible pet owners not doing their "doo-ty." We just keep our wiener dog home now and he plays in the kiddie pool, but he's little (only 10 lbs) so he can get his splash on in pretty well at home, for bigger dogs it's not quite as fun. Not sure why all the hub-bub over different training techniques. Guess I'm a bad dog owner too, since my Stewie has a crate. He loves it in there, it's his little "safe zone" he's got his fluffy little bed in there and it's a nice snug den-like environment. __________________ Alton Mumma "Living with a toddler is like using a blender without the cover."

05-07-2007, 08:38 PM	#3
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,549 Thanks: 1,074 Thanked 672 Times in 369 Posts	Bananas I got a pet peeve! GET RID OF THE DANCING BANANAS! It's driving me crazy!!! Dog on ramps, in crates, playing crazy eights are fine. Just get rid of these dancing bananas and I'll be glad to donate.

05-07-2007, 08:51 PM	#4
Knot Droolin' Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Agreed Nightwing, As you say, in your case a crate it is required to keep you dog safe. As I stated: "I do agree you have the right to do so, but I do not think it is in any way a good argument for being a good dog owner." I agree many people crate, but because it is a sensitive subject, I did not think it was a good argument given the context in which it was given. Meaning crating is not a prerequisite of good ownership. I completely agree with you on leashes! Here is a thought for all the dog owners out there: I pick up ALL dog potty I come across. I figure there are probably only about 10% of the dog owners out there that are not responsible. If the rest of us responsible owners chip in, we (us and our dogs) won't be kicked out of every place we enjoy going. This is extra work, but you will never get irrespnsible people to be responsible so we all need to help bag that potty!

05-07-2007, 09:12 PM	#6
Aquadeziac Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Concord NH Posts: 239 Thanks: 19 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Judging by what I see at the Gilford boat launch, it comes down to the few can ruin it for the many. I can't count the number of times I have tried to launch or retrieve and someone and their dog are occupying the ramp as a doggie playground playing fetch in the water and I have actually had to get out and ask them to get their dog out of the water so I can use the ramp. Its these inconsiderate rubes that ruin it for the responsible owner that merely wants a quick splash for the dog and a little walk. If you let the good people do it you have to let the rubes also. And, unfortunately, the only way to stop the rubes is to stop everyone. Life is not fair, but we must all deal with it. __________________ "He who dies with the most toys wins"

05-08-2007, 09:04 AM	#9
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	I think someone needs an attitude adjustment.Boat ramps are for BOATS.Not for DOGS.As Aqua stated,I've had issues with some dogs in the way at the Gilford ramp.It's not the dogs fault but the careless owner.I've also stepped in dog crap twice there. Why is that hard to understand?Actually,on the other side of the fence,I see the same guy at the ramp with his old dog quite often and he is very aware of ramp users and immediately has his dog move out of the way.Not a really big deal.I have more of a problem with kids playing on the ramp in the water with mom saying nothing with she sits right next to the "no swimming at ramp" sign.Oh well! __________________ SIKSUKR

05-07-2007, 08:19 PM	#2
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	I was not in favor of crating my puppy either, but it was explained to me that it is a natural tendency for canines to seek some sort of den. My particular dog, an Italian greyhound can never be left unattended and loose, no matter what the situation. He is a gaze hound and will chase after anything that moves if it suits his fancy. His ability to dart into traffic while chasing a leaf or a butterfly is just too great a risk to take. As a condition of purchase, I had to sign an agreement to keep the dog under my control at all times and never to let him run free. Of course, a fenced yard might be an exception but it would have to be a tall fence because this breed is like an antelope and can jump extremely high. My dog loves his crate because he can feel comfort and safety. When he is tired, he will go to the crate.

05-07-2007, 08:57 PM	#5
abay Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	One thing that hasn't been mentioned here - the Alton boat ramp is adjacent to a public swimming area. There are usually a lot of people there, and as has already been mentioned, I'm afraid it is the few irresponsible dog owners who have ruined it for the rest.

05-08-2007, 08:33 AM	#8
Bear Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bear Island Posts: 1,764 Thanks: 32 Thanked 441 Times in 207 Posts	I think the real issue here is dog poop in the lake. Most beaches do not allow dogs. When a dog poops near a lake where do you think it ends up? What happens the next time it rains? The bacteria content of the lake is a serious issue. Many older lake homes are spending up to $50K to upgrade septic systems. The lake is my drinking water supply. If the State Legislature wants to protect the lakes they should worry less about pine needles and make a law that requires scooping within x number of feet of the lake.

05-08-2007, 09:47 AM	#11
ApS Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florida (Sebring & Keys), Wolfeboro Posts: 6,025 Thanks: 2,275 Thanked 786 Times in 562 Posts	Earlier, Alton should have put up signs like Vancouver, BC, has: Attached Images __________________ Is it "Common Sense" isn't.

05-08-2007, 10:53 AM	#12
RLW Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Alton Bay on the mountain by a lake Posts: 2,023 Thanks: 563 Thanked 444 Times in 311 Posts	I believee there is another good reason for not letting them swim at the Alton ramp is that they are about 20 feet from the public swimming area. One could go and let their dogs swim in the nice pond just across the street from the fire station and then they would not be by swimming areas or boat ramps and it is a great place to sit and eat ones lunch while watching their dog (s). Problem solved. Now that wasn't hard was it??? __________________ There is nothing better than living on Alton Mountain & our grand kids visits.

05-08-2007, 01:05 PM	#19
Weirs guy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Weirs Beach, NH Posts: 1,067 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	So let me get this right, a dog doing his business at the boat ramp near the public beach is worse then your boat leaking god-knows-what at the same spot? Of course I'm sure each of you responsible boat owners make sure you don't have any leaks, but it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone. Maybe we should ban the boat launch all together? I see no reason why dogs can't use the boat ramp along with the boats. If we're going to outlaw all of the little things that inconvenience us because a few inconsiderate individuals ruin it then there goes driving, boating, vacations, eating out, watching tv, vacations at the lake, tourism.... __________________ Is it bikeweek yet? Now?

05-08-2007, 03:17 PM	#20
WINDinmySOCKIES Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hills Pond, Alton NH , Horsham, PA Posts: 40 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Holy Cow!! As I read all of this, I can only think ....... The dogs are much smarter than us humans because they can't talk, and unlike us, are easily trained.

05-08-2007, 05:41 PM	#22
mcdude Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rock Haven Lake - West Newfield, ME Posts: 5,367 Thanks: 374 Thanked 1,057 Times in 495 Posts	Karen: I am curious as well. I would direct my question to the Alton Parks and Recreation Dept by e-mailing them at parksrec@alton.nh.gov If you hear from them, be sure to let us know what they had to say. Will dogs also be banned from the newly refurbished town beach? When my "Hooch" and "Lady" were still alive, they would love to take a ride in the Jeep and take a dip at the boat ramp at either Manning Lake or Crystal Lake...right in your neck of the woods. Also the beach at the Boy Scout Camp at Lake Eileen is usually vacant most of the year and is a publicly accessible property. Usually, no one is around and you can let the doggies off the leash to romp around! McD

05-09-2007, 12:21 PM	#24
Weirs guy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Weirs Beach, NH Posts: 1,067 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I see your points Bear Islander, but I still say that an occasional doggie present is no worse than: 1. the rainbow covered slick on the water I have to swim through behind my neighbors boats. 2. mcmansion mclawn mcfertilizers. 3. whatever the bears, deers and other critters are doing in the lake and on the shore. 4. whatever the birds hanging out by the pier do in the water. __________________ Is it bikeweek yet? Now?

05-08-2007, 11:26 AM	#25
tricia1218 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: MA/Paugus Bay Posts: 155 Thanks: 31 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	As a dog owner I agree, if dogs are not allowed they are not allowed. People claim their dogs are well behaved, and they are not. My dog doesn't bark, meanwhile the dog is barking, I clean up after my pet, you pick up everything? hmm. It is like dog owners (myself included) are sometimes so oblivious to their pets behavior. And of course my dog is not included in this grouping he is a perfect angel ;-)

05-28-2007, 06:09 AM	#27
SteveA Deceased Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 2,311 Thanks: 1,070 Thanked 2,054 Times in 497 Posts	taking the matter into their own hands... err paws? Sometimes there is a very simple solution. If that fails... try a Disguise. __________________ "Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry he'll be a mile away and barefoot!" unknown