No Dogs at Boat Launch

[Knot Droolin']

Nightwing,

As you say, in your case a crate it is required to keep you dog safe. As I stated:

"I do agree you have the right to do so, but I do not think it is in any way a good argument for being a good dog owner."

I agree many people crate, but because it is a sensitive subject, I did not think it was a good argument given the context in which it was given. Meaning crating is not a prerequisite of good ownership. I completely agree with you on leashes!


Here is a thought for all the dog owners out there:

I pick up ALL dog potty I come across. I figure there are probably only about 10% of the dog owners out there that are not responsible. If the rest of us responsible owners chip in, we (us and our dogs) won't be kicked out of every place we enjoy going. This is extra work, but you will never get irrespnsible people to be responsible so we all need to help bag that potty!

[abay]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here - the Alton boat ramp is adjacent to a public swimming area. There are usually a lot of people there, and as has already been mentioned, I'm afraid it is the few irresponsible dog owners who have ruined it for the rest.

[Aquadeziac]

Judging by what I see at the Gilford boat launch, it comes down to the few can ruin it for the many. I can't count the number of times I have tried to launch or retrieve and someone and their dog are occupying the ramp as a doggie playground playing fetch in the water and I have actually had to get out and ask them to get their dog out of the water so I can use the ramp. Its these inconsiderate rubes that ruin it for the responsible owner that merely wants a quick splash for the dog and a little walk. If you let the good people do it you have to let the rubes also. And, unfortunately, the only way to stop the rubes is to stop everyone. Life is not fair, but we must all deal with it.

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by Knot Droolin'

Nightwing,

As you say, in your case a crate it is required to keep you dog safe. As I stated:

"I do agree you have the right to do so, but I do not think it is in any way a good argument for being a good dog owner."

I agree many people crate, but because it is a sensitive subject, I did not think it was a good argument given the context in which it was given. Meaning crating is not a prerequisite of good ownership. I completely agree with you on leashes!


Here is a thought for all the dog owners out there:

I pick up ALL dog potty I come across. I figure there are probably only about 10% of the dog owners out there that are not responsible. If the rest of us responsible owners chip in, we (us and our dogs) won't be kicked out of every place we enjoy going. This is extra work, but you will never get irrespnsible people to be responsible so we all need to help bag that potty!

In no way did I mean that it was an indicator of good ownership. I was just stating a fact. Dogs do not need a romp in a lake to have a good life.

[Bear Islander]

I think the real issue here is dog poop in the lake. Most beaches do not allow dogs. When a dog poops near a lake where do you think it ends up? What happens the next time it rains?

The bacteria content of the lake is a serious issue. Many older lake homes are spending up to $50K to upgrade septic systems. The lake is my drinking water supply.

If the State Legislature wants to protect the lakes they should worry less about pine needles and make a law that requires scooping within x number of feet of the lake.

[SIKSUKR]

I think someone needs an attitude adjustment.Boat ramps are for BOATS.Not for DOGS.As Aqua stated,I've had issues with some dogs in the way at the Gilford ramp.It's not the dogs fault but the careless owner.I've also stepped in dog crap twice there. Why is that hard to understand?Actually,on the other side of the fence,I see the same guy at the ramp with his old dog quite often and he is very aware of ramp users and immediately has his dog move out of the way.Not a really big deal.I have more of a problem with kids playing on the ramp in the water with mom saying nothing with she sits right next to the "no swimming at ramp" sign.Oh well!

[LilacHill]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I think someone needs an attitude adjustment.Boat ramps are for BOATS.Not for DOGS.As Aqua stated,I've had issues with some dogs in the way at the Gilford ramp.It's not the dogs fault but the careless owner.I've also stepped in dog crap twice there. Why is that hard to understand?Actually,on the other side of the fence,I see the same guy at the ramp with his old dog quite often and he is very aware of ramp users and immediately has his dog move out of the way.Not a really big deal.I have more of a problem with kids playing on the ramp in the water with mom saying nothing with she sits right next to the "no swimming at ramp" sign.Oh well!

Yeah well we are the ones that immediately get out of the way the second a boat approached the town dock or a trailer even enters the lot by Shibley's. We also do more than our fair share of picking up peoples' dog crap they leave behind. My dogs have been jumped by loose dogs at the ramp while they have been ON lead.

If the ramp is not in use for boats it is just sitting there vacant. What is needed are ENFORCED rules of conduct. Heck I'd even pay for a pass every summer to be able to bring my old dysplastic dog to swim. She does better with daily swims. Again this is Alton not Gilford.

[ApS]

Earlier, Alton should have put up signs like Vancouver, BC, has:

[RLW]

I believee there is another good reason for not letting them swim at the Alton ramp is that they are about 20 feet from the public swimming area. One could go and let their dogs swim in the nice pond just across the street from the fire station and then they would not be by swimming areas or boat ramps and it is a great place to sit and eat ones lunch while watching their dog (s). Problem solved. Now that wasn't hard was it???

[LilacHill]

Originally Posted by RLW

I believee there is another good reason for not letting them swim at the Alton ramp is that they are about 20 feet from the public swimming area. One could go and let their dogs swim in the nice pond just across the street from the fire station and then they would not be by swimming areas or boat ramps and it is a great place to sit and eat ones lunch while watching their dog (s). Problem solved. Now that wasn't hard was it???

No that isn't a solution. Have you seen the size of the alligator snapping turtles in that pond and the stream down off it? Turtles that size can handily remove a dog's leg and they have been known to do so. So that's a solution, how?

[RLW]

Originally Posted by LilacHill

No that isn't a solution. Have you seen the size of the alligator snapping turtles in that pond and the stream down off it? Turtles that size can handily remove a dog's leg and they have been known to do so. So that's a solution, how?

If you have alligators in that pond you had better run don't walk to see the ACO in Alton as they are not allowed in the inland lakes and ponds. As far as turtles, you do not think they aren't any large ones in the big lake that could take a dogs leg off. If so you are sadly mistaken. Our small lake up on the mountain have huge turtles 20 to 24inches across, but my dog hasn't lost a leg nor have the grandchildren been bothered by them. I think this topic has gone far enough. It appears a sign has been posted and we as adults just need to bit the bullet and obey what it says.

[LilacHill]

Originally Posted by RLW

If you have alligators in that pond you had better run don't walk to see the ACO in Alton as they are not allowed in the inland lakes and ponds. As far as turtles, you do not think they aren't any large ones in the big lake that could take a dogs leg off. If so you are sadly mistaken. Our small lake up on the mountain have huge turtles 20 to 24inches across, but my dog hasn't lost a leg nor have the grandchildren been bothered by them. I think this topic has gone far enough. It appears a sign has been posted and we as adults just need to bit the bullet and obey what it says.

Alligator snapping turtles are not alligators. They stay away from places where there is a lot of activity as they lie in wait for prey then strike. They have a tongue that acts as a lure. The ponds by the fire station have a hefty population of them we have seen them and photographed them. Even saw a large one killing a smaller one. So the fact they haven't bothered you at Hills Pond doesn't surprise me as they would hang out by less active spots. That's my point. There is all liklihood of a dog or a person even getting bitten by one over at the fire station.

Who says I let the dogs go swimming anyway? Implying that we didn't take the dogs home and forget their swim and that we didn't obey the signage is wrong. And why has it gone far enough? I'm not the only other responsible person in Alton who has lost a spot to take the dogs because of irresponsible people.

Here's an idea, why don't we just take them to your house? You're actually closer to us anyway..............

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by LilacHill

...................

Here's an idea, why don't we just take them to your house? ..........

Here's another idea...........why not entertain them at your home?

[LilacHill]

Originally Posted by NightWing

Here's another idea...........why not entertain them at your home?

It's a public boat launch. If permits are needed fine I have NO problem doing that at all. As to why the kiddie pool etc. won't work at home I do believe that's been covered a few posts up............

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by LilacHill

It's a public boat launch.

Yes, not a public dog launch.

Why not pick up the phone and call the town offices and ask of/complain to them?

[Weirs guy]

So let me get this right, a dog doing his business at the boat ramp near the public beach is worse then your boat leaking god-knows-what at the same spot? Of course I'm sure each of you responsible boat owners make sure you don't have any leaks, but it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone. Maybe we should ban the boat launch all together?

I see no reason why dogs can't use the boat ramp along with the boats. If we're going to outlaw all of the little things that inconvenience us because a few inconsiderate individuals ruin it then there goes driving, boating, vacations, eating out, watching tv, vacations at the lake, tourism....

[WINDinmySOCKIES]

Holy Cow!! As I read all of this, I can only think .......
The dogs are much smarter than us humans because they can't talk, and unlike us, are easily trained.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by WINDinmySOCKIES

Holy Cow!! As I read all of this, I can only think .......
The dogs are much smarter than us humans because they can't talk, and unlike us, are easily trained.

Maybe we should be put in crates

[mcdude]

Karen:
I am curious as well. I would direct my question to the Alton Parks and Recreation Dept by e-mailing them at parksrec@alton.nh.gov

If you hear from them, be sure to let us know what they had to say. Will dogs also be banned from the newly refurbished town beach?

When my "Hooch" and "Lady" were still alive, they would love to take a ride in the Jeep and take a dip at the boat ramp at either Manning Lake or Crystal Lake...right in your neck of the woods. Also the beach at the Boy Scout Camp at Lake Eileen is usually vacant most of the year and is a publicly accessible property. Usually, no one is around and you can let the doggies off the leash to romp around!

McD

[LilacHill]

Originally Posted by mcdude

Karen:
I am curious as well. I would direct my question to the Alton Parks and Recreation Dept by e-mailing them at parksrec@alton.nh.gov

If you hear from them, be sure to let us know what they had to say. Will dogs also be banned from the newly refurbished town beach?

When my "Hooch" and "Lady" were still alive, they would love to take a ride in the Jeep and take a dip at the boat ramp at either Manning Lake or Crystal Lake...right in your neck of the woods. Also the beach at the Boy Scout Camp at Lake Eileen is usually vacant most of the year and is a publicly accessible property. Usually, no one is around and you can let the doggies off the leash to romp around!

McD

They are banned from the other town beach already I went and looked. They can't go anywhere over at the new one not even under the pavillion thing. I was going to call the Boy Scout caretaker and ask about using their property, they already said we can use the trails with the horses.

I don't know where on Crystal Lake the boat ramp is, I'd rather go to an unoccupied spot (without the snappers!) and my kids tend to go to Crystal Lake more than the big one, there is sand and not that many people. I generally don't let them off lead away from home, I'm too worried they'd take off and get lost. They probably wouldn't, but it's one of my phobias

The thing is, both these are in Gilmanton and it's a sad day when Alton has nowhere for pet owners in town to work/play with their dogs in town. I had specifically asked about this too that's what really is upsetting. I asked if they'd close all beaches to dogs after the other park was finished. I guess it was OK as long as the other side was a dump We're heading down there tomorrow to inquire the feasability of some sort of permit system or something being set up.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by LilacHill

I don't know where on Crystal Lake the boat ramp is, I'd rather go to an unoccupied spot (without the snappers!) and my kids tend to go to Crystal Lake more than the big one, there is sand and not that many people. I generally don't let them off lead away from home, I'm too worried they'd take off and get lost. They probably wouldn't, but it's one of my phobias

.

In your #5 post you were rather abrasive responding to nightwing that your dogs were not ever off their leases in public and here you say they generally are not.You also say here you would rather go to an unoccupied spot.I can't imagine a more occupied spot than a boat launch at Winnipesaukee.I'm not judging you but these inconsistencies don't help your argument.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

So let me get this right, a dog doing his business at the boat ramp near the public beach is worse then your boat leaking god-knows-what at the same spot? Of course I'm sure each of you responsible boat owners make sure you don't have any leaks, but it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone. Maybe we should ban the boat launch all together?

I see no reason why dogs can't use the boat ramp along with the boats. If we're going to outlaw all of the little things that inconvenience us because a few inconsiderate individuals ruin it then there goes driving, boating, vacations, eating out, watching tv, vacations at the lake, tourism....

Yes! Dog poop at the boat ramp is far worse than what comes out of your boat bilge. Each poop contains billions of coliform bacteria that can make humans sick or even kill them. We spend billions of dollars on septic systems for human waste, yet permit dogs, who also have coliform bacteria in their feces, to poop within feet of a drinking water supply.

There is a huge business around the lake in upgrading septic systems. This is a particular problem on the islands due to higher costs and fewer options. This is important work because many unexplained infections and illnesses come from swimming in or drinking contaminated water. Small children the elderly and those with suppressed immune systems can die from this pollution.

The bacteria level of our lake is often very high, especially in the summer. Beaches have been closed many times because of high bacteria counts. When do you hear about beaches closed due to boat bilge?

Here is some reading on the subject

http://www.usatoday.com/news/science...7-dog-usat.htm

http://www.lmvp.org/Waterline/spring2003/scoop.htm

[Weirs guy]

I see your points Bear Islander, but I still say that an occasional doggie present is no worse than:

1. the rainbow covered slick on the water I have to swim through behind my neighbors boats.
2. mcmansion mclawn mcfertilizers.
3. whatever the bears, deers and other critters are doing in the lake and on the shore.
4. whatever the birds hanging out by the pier do in the water.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

I see your points Bear Islander, but I still say that an occasional doggie present is no worse than:

1. the rainbow covered slick on the water I have to swim through behind my neighbors boats.
2. mcmansion mclawn mcfertilizers.
3. whatever the bears, deers and other critters are doing in the lake and on the shore.
4. whatever the birds hanging out by the pier do in the water.

Petroleum and fertilizer contamination of water are a problem, but again, they have not caused any beaches to be closed down on Winni. But what is your argument here? Other people pollute so its OK if my dog craps in your drinking water? Not really a viable excuse!

The feces of wild animals also contain coliform but what makes you think they are leaving them at the lakes edge? An animal may deposit them anywhere but dogs are led to the waters edge by their owners, sometimes by a chain. It is the concentration in one area that causes bacteria levels to rise above what is considered safe.

Beaches and waterfront parks do not prohibit dogs because they don't like dogs. It's because of the concentration of sources for coliform bacteria.

[Argie's Wife]

...not just that, but why would you and the family WANT to frequent a beach that's full of doggie landmines?

If dog owners were more responsible to pick up after Fido when he goes, then this wouldn't be an issue...

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The feces of wild animals also contain coliform but what makes you think they are leaving them at the lakes edge?

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...73280638302418

Also, this snippet from a Save the Harbor/Save the Bay report indicates children who wear diapers should be added to the list of potential sources of contamination.

"What causes beach closures?
The SAC explored the causes of beach closures and identified an
extensive list of potential sources of beach contamination. Sources
considered include combined sewer overflows (CSOs), stormwater,
untreated sewage from leaky pipes and illegal hookups that empty
into storm sewers, waste from recreational and commercial vessels,
and sediments contaminated by pathogens. Other sources, which
potentially impact beaches, include pet waste, sea and shore birds,
and dirty diapers on the beaches."

Let's face it, parents, whether they be of two-legged or four-legged children, who don't clean up after their children are problems. Of course, if you say anything against a two-legged child, you're verbally lynched.

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Petroleum and fertilizer contamination of water are a problem, but again, they have not caused any beaches to be closed down on Winni. But what is your argument here? Other people pollute so its OK if my dog craps in your drinking water? Not really a viable excuse!

The feces of wild animals also contain coliform but what makes you think they are leaving them at the lakes edge? An animal may deposit them anywhere but dogs are led to the waters edge by their owners, sometimes by a chain. It is the concentration in one area that causes bacteria levels to rise above what is considered safe.

Beaches and waterfront parks do not prohibit dogs because they don't like dogs. It's because of the concentration of sources for coliform bacteria.

My argument is that if the ban is a result of animal waste contaminating the water, then lets ban ALL the things that do. Are you insinuating that since petroleum and fertilizer haven't caused any beach closings then there ok to put in someone else's drinking water? Of course not. As you stated, other people polluting is not a viable excuse for you to do so.

As to beach closings, I personally find it hard to believe that the yearly beach closings are a only direct result of dog poo poo in the lake. While its certainly a contributing factor, I can't believe its the only cause. So again, if we're banning dogs from the lake, lets get rid of the other pollutants too.

I guess my point is its easy to stop the other guy from being the issue, until we are the other guy. I'd like nothing better then to never see a boat, vacationer or "summer resident" around the lake again, but they all have the same right to a good time as I do. Just as LilacHill's doggies have the same right to swim in the lake as people do (based on the fact that LilacHill's taxes help pay for the ramp upkeep, just like the residents with boats do).

Anywho, I'll agree to disagree with you and look forward to your rebuttal.

[tricia1218]

As a dog owner I agree, if dogs are not allowed they are not allowed.

People claim their dogs are well behaved, and they are not. My dog doesn't bark, meanwhile the dog is barking, I clean up after my pet, you pick up everything? hmm. It is like dog owners (myself included) are sometimes so oblivious to their pets behavior. And of course my dog is not included in this grouping he is a perfect angel ;-)

[This'nThat]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Earlier, Alton should have put up signs like Vancouver, BC, has:

Looks like Vancouver, BC has fallen victim to the PC crowd: Dog Guardians????!! Vancouver has decided that people no longer are "dog owners" because PETA says that's not cool.
I don't think Alton should become like Vancouver at all.

[SteveA]

Sometimes there is a very simple solution.

If that fails... try a Disguise.

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

It's not the dogs fault but the careless owner.I've also stepped in dog crap twice there.

Not "keeping a proper watch"?

Allowing a dog to swim in the lake is shared fun for dog and family. Summer fun is what it's all about. A yellow tennis ball tossed for Fido into the lake or a Frisbee toss, are a big part of summer on the lake for Labs and Retrievers, the most popular breeds of dogs today. I'm also reasonably certain that dogs don't poop while swimming.

Sharing the cruise with your dog seems like the right thing to do, too. But boaters who take long cruises also know that dogs refuse to poop while on board. Where else to let them take a "comfort break" than back at the boat ramp? Of course, you'd be expected to "pick up after".

Locals who let their dogs cool off need a space that's "public". A public boat ramp that is not in use is OK with me.