No Dogs at Boat Launch

Lakewinniboater · 05-11-2007, 03:57 PM

Do you live in Alton? If not I don't think you have any room to talk. As for the leashing and crating comments, what ever gave you the impression my dogs are ever off lead in public? Here's a news flash THEY AREN'T. As for the boat ramps they aren't busy at the time we go with the dogs which is the point. An as a matter of fact today there wasn't anyone even attempting to use the ramp which is the case most days we go.

A kiddie pool and sprinkler do not allow for water retrival training do they?[/QUOTE]

I do live in Alton Bay and very often use the public ramp instead of ours, as it is easier to utilize.

First, I AM A DOG LOVER..... however, I do agree with part of the rebuttles here. The ramp is not a place for the dogs and HAS caused problems at TIMES. It really isn't a good spot for dogs, kids or anyone else to the use and play on.

I am sure there was a reason for the new rule... and as the town goes... they don't have to ask for input from guests or property owners.

I know this sounds harsh.... I don't mean it to.... just think of it from others point of view.

I am SURE that there are MANY public places that you can go alternately for your terrier's enjoyment. As the forum... they will surely give you LOTS of idea's on safe places!

LilacHill · 05-14-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakewinniboater

I do live in Alton Bay and very often use the public ramp instead of ours, as it is easier to utilize.

First, I AM A DOG LOVER..... however, I do agree with part of the rebuttles here. The ramp is not a place for the dogs and HAS caused problems at TIMES. It really isn't a good spot for dogs, kids or anyone else to the use and play on.

I am sure there was a reason for the new rule... and as the town goes... they don't have to ask for input from guests or property owners.

I know this sounds harsh.... I don't mean it to.... just think of it from others point of view.

I am SURE that there are MANY public places that you can go alternately for your terrier's enjoyment. As the forum... they will surely give you LOTS of idea's on safe places!

So you actually have a choice, do you not? Your own boat launch or the public one? Nice to have that option, isn't it?

There are no other public places in Alton. The town can't even find property to fit into the town budget to put in a real beach area never mind these pocket parks for humans!

As I said before a permit to use the ramp is fine with me I'd pay it and wait like everyone else until all boats are in/out/gone. I do that anyway so no biggie wow.

hazelnut · 05-14-2007, 09:02 AM

Never mind the location. My only point was that you stated that you were afraid to go where the dogs were off lead, am I correct?

You said that you would not go there because you felt unsafe. Ok so if that is the case I was only mentioning that you might know what it feels like when non dog lovers approach a PUBLIC boat ramp loaded with dogs. I know that you always use your lead but what you fail to recognize is that they can't just open up the ramp for your dogs. If it is open to all dogs they must then count on all the owners to leash their dogs. Not gonna happen. So what is the safe more cost effective way for the town to avoid this problem. Prohibit dogs from the BOAT launch, pretty simple IMHO. I'm not saying that I don't sympathize with you, unfortunately there are others who have ruined it for you. Those who chose to allow their dogs to run free.

RLW · 05-14-2007, 11:10 AM

Why aren't you fighting as hard to use the public beach so the dogs don't hurt their paws. Karen, you know that there are many locations in and around Alton closer to your home that dogs are allowed to swim, but you have reasons/excuses for not letting your dogs use them. You were going to see people in the town and request using permits. If you went I'm assuming that they would not change the law as you are still going about using the boat ramp. I wish you luck, but I believe you will be going against the law and continue to use it or find another place. Again, Gook Luck in your endeavors.

LilacHill · 05-14-2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLW

Why aren't you fighting as hard to use the public beach so the dogs don't hurt their paws. Karen, you know that there are many locations in and around Alton closer to your home that dogs are allowed to swim, but you have reasons/excuses for not letting your dogs use them. You were going to see people in the town and request using permits. If you went I'm assuming that they would not change the law as you are still going about using the boat ramp. I wish you luck, but I believe you will be going against the law and continue to use it or find another place. Again, Gook Luck in your endeavors.

I didn't have time to go down last week as we were getting ready for an open house in new construction. What a pain.

As for me using the boat ramp, what makes you think my dogs have been down there at all? If somone's using it it sure isn't us and I resent the fact you keep implying it is. If they aren't pit bulls they aren't us! And since my dogs' pictures are plastered all over the web pages in my signature you can verify that fact. This isn't the first time you have implied that I went ahead and broke the rule (note it isn't a LAW) about no dogs even after I stated more than once I took the dogs home and they DID NOT use itand that's just plain wrong on your part.

As for not using the public beach, I never ever had a problem with no dogs in the swim area and I never said I did. I think someone's twisting things to make it seem more of a problem than just using a public ramp my non boaters taxes help pay for.

As for your suggestion that the unsafe areas down by the fire station are a hunky dory place to let them swim, you go in first then we'll see.

Weirs guy · 05-14-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Never mind the location. My only point was that you stated that you were afraid to go where the dogs were off lead, am I correct?

You said that you would not go there because you felt unsafe. Ok so if that is the case I was only mentioning that you might know what it feels like when non dog lovers approach a PUBLIC boat ramp loaded with dogs. I know that you always use your lead but what you fail to recognize is that they can't just open up the ramp for your dogs. If it is open to all dogs they must then count on all the owners to leash their dogs. Not gonna happen. So what is the safe more cost effective way for the town to avoid this problem. Prohibit dogs from the BOAT launch, pretty simple IMHO. I'm not saying that I don't sympathize with you, unfortunately there are others who have ruined it for you. Those who chose to allow their dogs to run free.

So if the local Constable won't enforce the already in place leash law who will enforce the no dogs law? This is kinda like the speed limit argument now!

LilacHill · 05-14-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Never mind the location. My only point was that you stated that you were afraid to go where the dogs were off lead, am I correct?

You said that you would not go there because you felt unsafe. Ok so if that is the case I was only mentioning that you might know what it feels like when non dog lovers approach a PUBLIC boat ramp loaded with dogs. I know that you always use your lead but what you fail to recognize is that they can't just open up the ramp for your dogs. If it is open to all dogs they must then count on all the owners to leash their dogs. Not gonna happen. So what is the safe more cost effective way for the town to avoid this problem. Prohibit dogs from the BOAT launch, pretty simple IMHO. I'm not saying that I don't sympathize with you, unfortunately there are others who have ruined it for you. Those who chose to allow their dogs to run free.

Apples and oranges yet again. Downing's is private property? What part of that is so hard to grasp? As for the public boat launch I said the permit idea is a feasable one and it is.

NightWing · 05-14-2007, 12:53 PM

I don't understand how a permit fee would do anything. Would it give you a license to let your dogs do whatever it is they do in the lake or on the ramp? Would it give you priority over all other uses of that "public" launch since you PAID for a privilege that others may not have? What would happen if every other dog owner/user of that ramp bought the same permit and all their dogs were licensed and privileged to use the ramp? Then the town is back to square one with dogs in the ramp area and the same problems that created the ban are still in place. Nope, I don't think a Puppy Playing/Pooping Permit is the answer. Accept the fact that the rules have changed and dogs are no longer allowed in the ramp area. JMHO

LilacHill · 05-14-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

I don't understand how a permit fee would do anything. Would it give you a license to let your dogs do whatever it is they do in the lake or on the ramp? Would it give you priority over all other uses of that "public" launch since you PAID for a privilege that others may not have? What would happen if every other dog owner/user of that ramp bought the same permit and all their dogs were licensed and privileged to use the ramp? Then the town is back to square one with dogs in the ramp area and the same problems that created the ban are still in place. Nope, I don't think a Puppy Playing/Pooping Permit is the answer. Accept the fact that the rules have changed and dogs are no longer allowed in the ramp area. JMHO

Again do you live in Alton? If not then your taxes pay for a boat launch somewhere else. A permit and a log in such as a burnng permit would tell whoever is at the town office what dogs were there at what time of day etc. It would be enough deterrant for those not cleaning up after their dogs to be watched by those that do. Again I did not say for the dogs to be on the grassy beach area or near the swim area. The boat ramp is used by maybe a half dozen people at most. If it can't be worked around by dog owners and boaters alike (with the boats taking priority) what does that say about people in general? Not much apparently. I guess certain uses for public access far outweight others. Besides the fact that A LOT of the use the ramp gets isn't even from Alton folks. Ironic isn't it?

NightWing · 05-14-2007, 03:08 PM

So now, with your method, there will be administrative costs to the town to monitor the permits and answer the phone when you log in. What about weekends? Will the town have somebody on call for log in whenever your poochies want a dip or a photo op? Great. Oh, no problem. Your permit fee will cover the administrative costs! How much should the permit cost? $5.00? $10.00? $20.00? Here is an idea. If you have town dog registrations, suggest that every registration be increased in price to cover the administrative costs of your permit/log in theory. That way, every registered dog owner will help pay the freight for a few.

To answer your question, no, I do not live in Alton, although I have used that "dog" ramp to launch my boat in the past. Where I live, the ramps are maintained either by the power company or Fish and Game.

hazelnut · 05-14-2007, 08:37 PM

Wow Lilac this is way way more difficult than it has to be. Somebody else please jump in and help me out here because this is getting exhausting. I'll try again for the last time then I give up.

OK, seriously I had no intentions of getting into this debate. I for one LOVE dogs, love, love, love them. I have owned them, grew up around them, enjoyed them my whole life. I used to look at people who avoided my gorgeous, flawless, wonderful, Golden Retriever as freaks. I mean who the heck were THEY to treat my child, my buddy as a second class citizen. They were the ones with the problem, not me. Anyway, with that said, I would NEVER, EVER, EVER tell anyone at downings what to do on their own property, neither would you. That is not what I intended or implied you should do.

YOU SAID: I will paraphrase: You wouldn't go somewhere because of some dogs off lead.

I SAID: That is how some people feel about your dogs or anyone else's dogs that may be off lead somewhere.

I recommended that you should apply that logic to how folks might disagree with your stance that Public Boat Launches should be dog friendly assuming that folks would abuse the leash law. We can assume this because people do abuse this law as agreed to by almost everyone here.

I am done explaining this as people are probably bored with this. Good luck and I hope you find someplace to allow your pooch to swim freely.

SIKSUKR · 05-15-2007, 09:07 AM

Hazelnut,I've given up with this one.You can't discuss issues when someone already has their mind made up.The question was posed and if the poster didn't like the answer then you were ostrasized for not being a resident or if you used their own words to argue a point,YOU were not reading it right.I see 3 examples of the latter in this thread.Don't bother.While I have no problem with a controlled dog at a ramp,in my opinion this poster has actually hurt their own argument with their rebuttals.

RLW · 05-15-2007, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Hazelnut,I've given up with this one.You can't discuss issues when someone already has their mind made up.The question was posed and if the poster didn't like the answer then you were ostracized for not being a resident or if you used their own words to argue a point,YOU were not reading it right.I see 3 examples of the latter in this thread.Don't bother.While I have no problem with a controlled dog at a ramp,in my opinion this poster has actually hurt their own argument with their rebuttals.

Very well said. I couldn't have said it better.

Bear Islander · 05-15-2007, 01:18 PM

Somehow the poop discussion changed to "do dogs poop in the lake?". However if the dog poops near the lake it will end up in the lake unless someone picks it up. In the picture several posts back a dog is sitting on a grassy area behind a retaining wall. Any poop in that grassy area will be in the lake next time it rains.

Gavia immer · 05-17-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Somehow the poop discussion changed to "do dogs poop in the lake?". However if the dog poops near the lake it will end up in the lake unless someone picks it up. In the picture several posts back a dog is sitting on a grassy area behind a retaining wall. Any poop in that grassy area will be in the lake next time it rains.

Squirrel poop, duck poop, fish poop, hen poop, moose poop, fox poop, cow poop, bear poop, deer poop, and poop-equivalent McLawn McFertilizer. Even LLAMA poop....from farms uphill.

EVERYTHING pooped ends up in the lake, but the lake can deal with most of the natural variety poop, as it has for centuries.

Geesh....let a dog take a swim, especially if its hot lakeside.

Bear Islander · 05-18-2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gavia immer

... EVERYTHING pooped ends up in the lake, but the lake can deal with most of the natural variety poop, as it has for centuries...

NO, IT CAN'T!

This is the attitude that causes pollution. Centuries ago 1 in 3 children died before puberty, mostly of illness. A large percentage of these deaths were caused by coliform and parasites in their drinking water. As a society we spend billions every year to keep excrement out of our drinking water.

But then some idiot lets junior in the lake with a diaper full, or decides the lake will take care of what Fido left behind.

Forget about the big chemical companies, the polluters are in your mirror. One of the things about Winnipesaukee that is not beautiful is its bacteria count.

LilacHill · 05-18-2007, 02:59 PM

OK having been gone most of the week with a dog having surgery I come back to a LOT of misinformation on this thread.

FYI Hazelnut that link was part of a cut and pasted forum signature from elsewhere and had been the SAME since 2004. You're just now getting around to picking at something else because the arguments you all were using about private property versus public held no water?

Jersey Girl thank you for emailing P&R. I was off the computer until today and not around so I couldn't go down to the town hall nor email anyone.

As to the "website selling things". Give me a break. How many people here would buy things with pictures of MY dogs on them in a shop set up for me and my kids to get things from? Not many I'd warrant. So the comments of doing my business no good, I have to ask, WHAT business? There is no business. Again that link had been there since 2004 here it is 2007 and you needed something else to gripe at.

As to the pit bull comments, very funny. Likree I haven't heard it all before. Or were you one of the people spitting on my dog from their car as we took a walk on Avery Hill the other day? If so, thatnks a bunch. You're more of a threat than they are apparently.

I used to send people here a lot to keep up with what's going on in town and around the lake. I'm not doing that again. Hope you have a wonderful time being nasty to the next person.

hazelnut · 05-18-2007, 07:15 PM

Well this is a discussion I regret getting into. Originally my post was a positive suggestion that met with no response. Me second post was an observation that you had made a comment that seemed to go against your point. Nothing nasty or derogatory. I encourage you and anyone else to reread the entire thread. As soon as I pointed that out you proceeded to demean my argument. No problem I tried in vain to explain the point to you and it fell on deaf ears.

I will say my last comment was not really directed towards you but at ONTHEBAY who stuck their nose in on the tail end of a discussion with misinformation. I will take the high road and apologize to you Lilachill I am very sorry if I have offended you. My intention was originally to try and offer a differing viewpoint and possible suggestions to a problem that we now know does not exist. I am sure you are a very nice person and had no intention of causing and disruption. One inherent problem with public discussion forums/email/online communication is the lack of inflection present in conversation. Often times we read things with a different "voice" in our heads which can lead to misinterpretation and misunderstandings. When I made a comment regarding your comment about the dogs off lead at downings I meant no disrespect to you I was merely trying to illustrate a point that some feel threatened by unleashed dogs or even leashed dogs in public places. Anyway, things seemed to escalate from there and conspiracy theories arose, others got involved etc. etc. Well it became a mess.

The funny thing here is I am PRO-DOG. Love dogs would probably gush over your dogs and love to play, pat, throw the ball for them. I hope that you change your mind about directing others to this site. There is a lot of great information to be had here. I believe the Webmaster here does an excellent job with the site. Please continue to post and read the forum and do not let one little debate ruin it for you. Once again I am sorry if for any comments that you felt offended by. I truly hope that your dogs find the perfect swimming hole and it looks like from the info posted here that the public boat launch is fair game!

onthebay · 05-18-2007, 09:07 PM

Hazelnut although I was not a participant in the thread I had been reading the posts throughout as I do most of the forum discussions. Although I did not weigh in on the topic of whether dogs should swim at the the ramp. (I haven't had a dog in years and do not use the Alton ramp) I did weigh in on the assertion put forth by some participants that LilacHill had started the thread with the express purpose of advertising her business.
I didn't direct my comments to anyone in particular

but as they say 'me thinks you doth protest too much"

ApS · 05-19-2007, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

"...A large percentage of these deaths were caused by coliform and parasites in their drinking water. As a society we spend billions every year to keep excrement out of our drinking water...

We spend billions to chlorinate our drinking water—something that was unnecessary some thirty-plus years ago for Lake Winnipesaukee when it was a "Class A" water supply. Chlorine adds its own problems to our drinking water—namely trihalomethanes—carcinogens.

"Treated" sewage only delays the resurgence of bacteria.

We can only hope that individual septic systems will keep a high bacteria count from the lake. Other solutions haven't worked out so well—with Gilford's several spills into the lake, Alton's big spill, and Wolfeboro's looming spill into Back Bay. (And Mirror Lake).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

"...But then some idiot lets junior in the lake with a diaper full, or decides the lake will take care of what Fido left behind...

Were beaches monitored 30-40 years ago? Diapers are only closing the beaches in recent years.

I'm reminded that in 1938 the United States only had one hurricane!

(We didn't know of any other hurricanes because we weren't monitoring them—or naming them—as we do today.)

Tamworth's pristine shores were closed last summer, but it wasn't because dogs had overrun the beaches!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

"...Forget about the big chemical companies, the polluters are in your mirror. One of the things about Winnipesaukee that is not beautiful is its bacteria count....

The polluters are in your mirror—true enough—but "pollution" itself is multi-sourced.

Lakewinniboater · 05-20-2007, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilacHill

So you actually have a choice, do you not? Your own boat launch or the public one? Nice to have that option, isn't it?

There are no other public places in Alton. The town can't even find property to fit into the town budget to put in a real beach area never mind these pocket parks for humans!

As I said before a permit to use the ramp is fine with me I'd pay it and wait like everyone else until all boats are in/out/gone. I do that anyway so no biggie wow.

THE REALITY. That isn't going to happen. It is nice to have the option.....of which I pay highly and work VERY hard to have. You too could have these options! Buy a property with water frontage.

05-11-2007, 03:57 PM	#1
Lakewinniboater Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Westford, MA and Alton Bay, NH Posts: 225 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	boat ramp Do you live in Alton? If not I don't think you have any room to talk. As for the leashing and crating comments, what ever gave you the impression my dogs are ever off lead in public? Here's a news flash THEY AREN'T. As for the boat ramps they aren't busy at the time we go with the dogs which is the point. An as a matter of fact today there wasn't anyone even attempting to use the ramp which is the case most days we go. A kiddie pool and sprinkler do not allow for water retrival training do they?[/QUOTE] I do live in Alton Bay and very often use the public ramp instead of ours, as it is easier to utilize. First, I AM A DOG LOVER..... however, I do agree with part of the rebuttles here. The ramp is not a place for the dogs and HAS caused problems at TIMES. It really isn't a good spot for dogs, kids or anyone else to the use and play on. I am sure there was a reason for the new rule... and as the town goes... they don't have to ask for input from guests or property owners. I know this sounds harsh.... I don't mean it to.... just think of it from others point of view. I am SURE that there are MANY public places that you can go alternately for your terrier's enjoyment. As the forum... they will surely give you LOTS of idea's on safe places! __________________ Wendy "Wasn't Me!"

05-14-2007, 09:02 AM	#3
hazelnut Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,348 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 508 Thanked 462 Times in 162 Posts	Not my point Never mind the location. My only point was that you stated that you were afraid to go where the dogs were off lead, am I correct? You said that you would not go there because you felt unsafe. Ok so if that is the case I was only mentioning that you might know what it feels like when non dog lovers approach a PUBLIC boat ramp loaded with dogs. I know that you always use your lead but what you fail to recognize is that they can't just open up the ramp for your dogs. If it is open to all dogs they must then count on all the owners to leash their dogs. Not gonna happen. So what is the safe more cost effective way for the town to avoid this problem. Prohibit dogs from the BOAT launch, pretty simple IMHO. I'm not saying that I don't sympathize with you, unfortunately there are others who have ruined it for you. Those who chose to allow their dogs to run free.

05-14-2007, 11:10 AM	#4
RLW Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Alton Bay on the mountain by a lake Posts: 2,023 Thanks: 563 Thanked 444 Times in 311 Posts	Dogs and Water. Why aren't you fighting as hard to use the public beach so the dogs don't hurt their paws. Karen, you know that there are many locations in and around Alton closer to your home that dogs are allowed to swim, but you have reasons/excuses for not letting your dogs use them. You were going to see people in the town and request using permits. If you went I'm assuming that they would not change the law as you are still going about using the boat ramp. I wish you luck, but I believe you will be going against the law and continue to use it or find another place. Again, Gook Luck in your endeavors. __________________ There is nothing better than living on Alton Mountain & our grand kids visits.

05-14-2007, 08:37 PM	#11
hazelnut Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,348 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 508 Thanked 462 Times in 162 Posts	????? Wow Lilac this is way way more difficult than it has to be. Somebody else please jump in and help me out here because this is getting exhausting. I'll try again for the last time then I give up. OK, seriously I had no intentions of getting into this debate. I for one LOVE dogs, love, love, love them. I have owned them, grew up around them, enjoyed them my whole life. I used to look at people who avoided my gorgeous, flawless, wonderful, Golden Retriever as freaks. I mean who the heck were THEY to treat my child, my buddy as a second class citizen. They were the ones with the problem, not me. Anyway, with that said, I would NEVER, EVER, EVER tell anyone at downings what to do on their own property, neither would you. That is not what I intended or implied you should do. YOU SAID: I will paraphrase: You wouldn't go somewhere because of some dogs off lead. I SAID: That is how some people feel about your dogs or anyone else's dogs that may be off lead somewhere. I recommended that you should apply that logic to how folks might disagree with your stance that Public Boat Launches should be dog friendly assuming that folks would abuse the leash law. We can assume this because people do abuse this law as agreed to by almost everyone here. I am done explaining this as people are probably bored with this. Good luck and I hope you find someplace to allow your pooch to swim freely.

05-15-2007, 09:07 AM	#12
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Give up Hazelnut,I've given up with this one.You can't discuss issues when someone already has their mind made up.The question was posed and if the poster didn't like the answer then you were ostrasized for not being a resident or if you used their own words to argue a point,YOU were not reading it right.I see 3 examples of the latter in this thread.Don't bother.While I have no problem with a controlled dog at a ramp,in my opinion this poster has actually hurt their own argument with their rebuttals. __________________ SIKSUKR

05-14-2007, 12:53 PM	#8
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	I don't understand how a permit fee would do anything. Would it give you a license to let your dogs do whatever it is they do in the lake or on the ramp? Would it give you priority over all other uses of that "public" launch since you PAID for a privilege that others may not have? What would happen if every other dog owner/user of that ramp bought the same permit and all their dogs were licensed and privileged to use the ramp? Then the town is back to square one with dogs in the ramp area and the same problems that created the ban are still in place. Nope, I don't think a Puppy Playing/Pooping Permit is the answer. Accept the fact that the rules have changed and dogs are no longer allowed in the ramp area. JMHO

05-14-2007, 03:08 PM	#10
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	So now, with your method, there will be administrative costs to the town to monitor the permits and answer the phone when you log in. What about weekends? Will the town have somebody on call for log in whenever your poochies want a dip or a photo op? Great. Oh, no problem. Your permit fee will cover the administrative costs! How much should the permit cost? $5.00? $10.00? $20.00? Here is an idea. If you have town dog registrations, suggest that every registration be increased in price to cover the administrative costs of your permit/log in theory. That way, every registered dog owner will help pay the freight for a few. To answer your question, no, I do not live in Alton, although I have used that "dog" ramp to launch my boat in the past. Where I live, the ramps are maintained either by the power company or Fish and Game.

05-15-2007, 01:18 PM	#14
Bear Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bear Island Posts: 1,764 Thanks: 32 Thanked 441 Times in 207 Posts	Somehow the poop discussion changed to "do dogs poop in the lake?". However if the dog poops near the lake it will end up in the lake unless someone picks it up. In the picture several posts back a dog is sitting on a grassy area behind a retaining wall. Any poop in that grassy area will be in the lake next time it rains.

05-18-2007, 02:59 PM	#17
LilacHill Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK having been gone most of the week with a dog having surgery I come back to a LOT of misinformation on this thread. FYI Hazelnut that link was part of a cut and pasted forum signature from elsewhere and had been the SAME since 2004. You're just now getting around to picking at something else because the arguments you all were using about private property versus public held no water? Jersey Girl thank you for emailing P&R. I was off the computer until today and not around so I couldn't go down to the town hall nor email anyone. As to the "website selling things". Give me a break. How many people here would buy things with pictures of MY dogs on them in a shop set up for me and my kids to get things from? Not many I'd warrant. So the comments of doing my business no good, I have to ask, WHAT business? There is no business. Again that link had been there since 2004 here it is 2007 and you needed something else to gripe at. As to the pit bull comments, very funny. Likree I haven't heard it all before. Or were you one of the people spitting on my dog from their car as we took a walk on Avery Hill the other day? If so, thatnks a bunch. You're more of a threat than they are apparently. I used to send people here a lot to keep up with what's going on in town and around the lake. I'm not doing that again. Hope you have a wonderful time being nasty to the next person. __________________ Karen, Cuddles, and Dilly the Understudy with Rowdy the Ruckus Raiser

05-18-2007, 07:15 PM	#18
hazelnut Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,348 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 508 Thanked 462 Times in 162 Posts	Lilac Well this is a discussion I regret getting into. Originally my post was a positive suggestion that met with no response. Me second post was an observation that you had made a comment that seemed to go against your point. Nothing nasty or derogatory. I encourage you and anyone else to reread the entire thread. As soon as I pointed that out you proceeded to demean my argument. No problem I tried in vain to explain the point to you and it fell on deaf ears. I will say my last comment was not really directed towards you but at ONTHEBAY who stuck their nose in on the tail end of a discussion with misinformation. I will take the high road and apologize to you Lilachill I am very sorry if I have offended you. My intention was originally to try and offer a differing viewpoint and possible suggestions to a problem that we now know does not exist. I am sure you are a very nice person and had no intention of causing and disruption. One inherent problem with public discussion forums/email/online communication is the lack of inflection present in conversation. Often times we read things with a different "voice" in our heads which can lead to misinterpretation and misunderstandings. When I made a comment regarding your comment about the dogs off lead at downings I meant no disrespect to you I was merely trying to illustrate a point that some feel threatened by unleashed dogs or even leashed dogs in public places. Anyway, things seemed to escalate from there and conspiracy theories arose, others got involved etc. etc. Well it became a mess. The funny thing here is I am PRO-DOG. Love dogs would probably gush over your dogs and love to play, pat, throw the ball for them. I hope that you change your mind about directing others to this site. There is a lot of great information to be had here. I believe the Webmaster here does an excellent job with the site. Please continue to post and read the forum and do not let one little debate ruin it for you. Once again I am sorry if for any comments that you felt offended by. I truly hope that your dogs find the perfect swimming hole and it looks like from the info posted here that the public boat launch is fair game!

05-18-2007, 09:07 PM	#19
onthebay Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Sticking My Nose In it Hazelnut although I was not a participant in the thread I had been reading the posts throughout as I do most of the forum discussions. Although I did not weigh in on the topic of whether dogs should swim at the the ramp. (I haven't had a dog in years and do not use the Alton ramp) I did weigh in on the assertion put forth by some participants that LilacHill had started the thread with the express purpose of advertising her business. I didn't direct my comments to anyone in particular but as they say 'me thinks you doth protest too much"