Cabin Cruiser Operators - "WAKE UP!...no, WAKE DOWN"!

[SweetCraft]

Don't waste your time/energy.... these are same "gang" of posters that beat up every other poster who doesn't agree with their views. Once you express a concern for the lake, its future and protecting it you are immediately a snob, elitest, liberal , Democrat, land baron, tree hugger, green party member, communist..... this happens every year whether its speed limits or the environment. Join the rest of us that want to do actual WORK to protect the lake and keep it pristine for future generations. Why? Because its THE RIGHT THING TO DO. I wish we had room for all the boats and all the world to use it. God knows I LOVE a party . But we don't .... a limited resource will eventually need to limit access unfortunately to be protected. BIG Boats (Wakes) and yes probably lawns, fertizilers, clear cutting into the hill side, new houses, septics etc will be legislated further and part of the solution as they do the most damage. It sucks sometimes but that its reality in an ever crowed world. Stop "attacking" and start coming up with solutions?????

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by SweetCraft

Don't waste your time/energy.... these are same "gang" of posters that beat up every other poster who doesn't agree with their views. Once you express a concern for the lake, its future and protecting it you are immediately a snob, elitest, liberal , Democrat, land baron, tree hugger, green party member, communist..... this happens every year whether its speed limits or the environment. Join the rest of us that want to do actual WORK to protect the lake and keep it pristine for future generations. Why? Because its THE RIGHT THING TO DO. I wish we had room for all the boats and all the world to use it. God knows I LOVE a party . But we don't .... a limited resource will eventually need to limit access unfortunately to be protected. BIG Boats (Wakes) and yes probably lawns, fertizilers, clear cutting into the hill side, new houses, septics etc will be legislated further and part of the solution as they do the most damage. It sucks sometimes but that its reality in an ever crowed world. Stop "attacking" and start coming up with solutions?????

Just so you know, the lake association I proudly belong to has gone to great lengths, at great individual cost, to preserve the natural riparian buffers along the 1000 feet of shoreline we originally bought. Additionally we purchased (at even greater cost) an additional 1000 feet of neighboring shoreline that's also preserved in it's natural state and will remain so. We've also facilitated the process of putting 5000+ acres of woodland in trust so that it can never be developed. So, we've collectively saved 2000 feet of pristine shoreline and 5000+ acres of woods from future development. I practice what I preach; what have you done?

There's plenty of room on the lake. How often and where do you cruise on Winnipesaukee?

[ITD]

I think those who think there are too many boats on the lake should keep their boat out of the water. Stay home. That would be the non-hypocritical thing to do.

[MAINLANDER]

Seams to me that boat traffic has been down for all of last year and up to now this year there has not been much traffic at all. Nothing at all like five or so years ago. IMHO.

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Just so you know, the lake association I proudly belong to has gone to great lengths, at great individual cost, to preserve the natural riparian buffers along the 1000 feet of shoreline we originally bought. Additionally we purchased (at even greater cost) an additional 1000 feet of neighboring shoreline that's also preserved in it's natural state and will remain so. We've also facilitated the process of putting 5000+ acres of woodland in trust so that it can never be developed. So, we've collectively saved 2000 feet of pristine shoreline and 5000+ acres of woods from future development. I practice what I preach; what have you done?

There's plenty of room on the lake.

If Winnipesaukee was a round lake of 72 Square miles, I would agree. But the irregular shoreline keeps boats at least 150' or more off shore. Think of Alton Bay, and include the same "barrier" around each of the 253 islands. Except for the Broads, sight distance is impaired in many places.

I don't recall if PWCs have the same limit. Even on some lakes bigger than Winnipesaukee, at 600 feet from shore it's headway speed only for PWCs.

Although associations result in a much higher concentration of people, your association should be applauded for its actions in protecting lakewater quality. I recall that New York City bought a billion dollars worth of forest in the upper Hudson River Basin to keep their drinking water pristine, and the city's water has a deserved worldwide reputation for quality. Towns in addition to Laconia will be drawing from the lake in the future.

What is the difference between "in trust", and "preserved in it's natural state and will remain so"? Is your association on Lake Winnipesaukee?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Gavia immer

What is the difference between "in trust", and "preserved in it's natural state and will remain so"? Is your association on Lake Winnipesaukee?

In trust means that the control of the land is given to a board of trustees who are chartered with protecting the land but cannot sell it. I'm not sure why this is necessary, but I suspect it's for tax purposes. The end result is that it protects a large watershed area from ever being developed and that helps protect the lake we are on, and everything downstream (which includes Sebago Lake, Portland's drinking water).

We are not on Winnipesaukee, the property is in the lakes region of Maine. This is an area my wife and I fell in love with about 19 years ago, and spend a lot of time in. We plan to retire there eventually. It's a bit more laid back than the lakes region of NH and really close to some great skiing.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Dave R

"...We are not on Winnipesaukee, the property is in the lakes region of Maine. This is an area my wife and I fell in love with about 19 years ago, and spend a lot of time in. We plan to retire there eventually. It's a bit more laid back than the lakes region of NH..."

Irony: Laid back could have described Lake Winnipesaukee 20 years ago.

He's since moved away from Long Lake's mayhem in Maine, but here's what that lakeside resident wrote at this forum:

"...The lakes have become the last great lawless frontier. In Maine...there are less wardens with IFW today then there were twenty years ago..." http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...2&postcount=92

Question: In 20 years, should Winnipesaukee's lakeside residents be championing the same causes for Maine's unlimited lake speeds, ocean-racers, heavy cruisers, law-non-enforcements, erosion, and exhaust noise for your chosen neighborhood?

BTW: Yesterday's boat average size was considerably larger than what has been described as "typical-boat sizes". I saw two bass boats (the smallest, at about 19-feet), and dozens of boats 21' to 36-feet long. When the rental season gets started, the average lengths will likely decrease. And in the spirit of what MAXUM stated, what used to be the normal-sized boat will get hammered.

[Islander]

Dave R

You object to the idea that we need limits. And you don't think the lake is becoming more hectic.

At the same time you are making plans to move to another lake, because it is "more laid back" than Winnipesaukee.

No problem, you move north and start polluting another pristine lake. We will stay here and try to clean up the mess you made.

[wildwoodfam]

one I hadn't thought of - until recently - BUT - since this is the Winnipesaukee Forum and the conversations here are supposedly about Winnipesaukee, I wonder - HOW MANY of us on here posting concerns, etc...actually a) own a home on Winni, b) boat on Winni, c) use Winni for our recreational gains every summer....and HOW MANY posters to this site do not? I am not saying one needs to live, boat or recreate on Winni to post!

I would be interested in learning how many people on this forum actually live and/ or play here on Winni?!

I am happy to start - I have lived and boated on Winni since my earliest recollections, the 1960's - first at the family's place on Paugus Bay, which had been in the family sine the 30's, then we all moved over to Center Harbor - mom and dad have since moved to a souther nh lake to be closer to their home - but my family summers on LI. I have been boating "solo" on Winni - since 1978 when I first took my uncles boat on a solo trek around Paugus and through the channel out to the main lake! We also own lakefrontage on another lake in NH and our extended family has property and frontage on Champlain in VT and the seacoast in MA. I have a 20 foot runabout, a canoe, and 14' row boat. All registered in NH and all on Winni.

My recollection of boating on the lake in the 60's and 70's was that when were were out on the lake and spotted a cruiser - my dad or uncle knew exactly WHO the skipper was - seemingly because there were not that many of them out there at the time - but some of them in the 60's and 70's were just as big and grand as the ones on here today!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Islander

Dave R

You object to the idea that we need limits. And you don't think the lake is becoming more hectic.

At the same time you are making plans to move to another lake, because it is "more laid back" than Winnipesaukee.

No problem, you move north and start polluting another pristine lake. We will stay here and try to clean up the mess you made.

I do not object to necessary limits. Thus far, limits have proven to be utterly unnecessary, except for shorefront development.

The lake is far less hectic this year than I have ever seen it for this time of year, I've been coming here for more than 30 years. Two gorgeous Sundays in a row and the lake was practically deserted. Last year was quiet, this year is even quieter, so far.

Never said I was moving there BECAUSE it was more laid back; just that it IS more laid back (fairly safe assumption you made there though...), and it's where I happen to have property. It's not just the boating that's more laid back either, it's the general feel of the whole area, especially the traffic on the roads. People are friendlier and there's no bike week to endure.

I boat on Winnipesaukee a lot because it's near where I live, I know it well, have lots of friends there and it's a wonderful place to be. I choose when and where I boat and am not limited to one place just because I have property there.

I don't contribute to the pollution anywhere near as much as a typical shorefront property owner. I operate my boat in a fully legal manner. My boat is in a perfect state of tune, does not leak any oil, has a functional head that gets used, has its gray water overboard drains disconnected, and I rarely buy gas on the lake (no gas spills). I also clean and wax the boat on the trailer, not in the water.

When you are at your lakefront home, do you have a direct view of the water, or is your view obscured by brush and growth? Do you have a beach? Do you have a dock or a boat house? Do you have a path that leads to the water? Do you have a septic system? Any of these things can impact runoff into the lake and will have a much greater impact than a boat running along the surface or at anchor; or sitting on a trailer 50 miles away, 325 days of the year, .

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by Dave R

That's brilliant. Wish I thought of it. Only caveat would be that folks with marginally shallow docks would be even worse off.

Whitecapped, rolling wakes from cruisers can make a dock "too shallow".

Putting too large a boat at a dock can also make any dock "too shallow".

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I don't contribute to the pollution anywhere near as much as a typical shorefront property owner.
.

Come on Dave, I'd take you on on that statement but in the end it's not worth the effort. You're being lead down a road, trying to reason with someone who just wants what they want, you won't win with these people, it's not worth arguing with them, these island people who want every other boat off the lake but theirs. Just make sure your Senators and Reps know what they are up to with their speed limit, much more effective than trying to reason with them.

[Knot Droolin']

Originally Posted by ITD

Come on Dave, I'd take you on on that statement but in the end it's not worth the effort. You're being lead down a road, trying to reason with someone who just wants what they want, you won't win with these people, it's not worth arguing with them, these island people who want every other boat off the lake but theirs. Just make sure your Senators and Reps know what they are up to with their speed limit, much more effective than trying to reason with them.

It was my understanding from reading this thread that folks who live on the lake have a much greater say and respect for the lake than do the rest of us who only use the lake to our evil ends.

Also, doesn't at least some of this thread smack of "His house is bigger than mine so I don't like his house" ?

[Silver Duck]

Gavia Immer

You don't like fast boats. You don't ike big boats. I'd be curious to know what kind of boat you own, and presumable do like!

Ok, let me address your last response to me point by point.

As for endangering kayaks, I seriously doubt that a cruiser wake would be more than a nuisance to a real kayak (not some inflatable thing or bathtub toy). Kayaks are extremely nimble, capable, seaworthy vessels. Heck, experienced kayakers even use them to traverse whitewater rapids! (I honestly wish that my back didn't prevent my using one to explore parts of the lake that my cruiser can't go.)

I'll take "injury to the casual boater" and "falls within boat" together. First, the rules say that you are supposed to be seated (in a manufactuirer-intended seating location) while underway. Given that, hitting a large wake at speeds that would send a passenger flying and cause injury is, IMHO, reckless operation. (Captain Bonehead sometimes takes the holm on small boats, too!)

As for damage to docked boats, well, cruiser wakes are not the only source of large waves on our lake; Mother Nature sometimes produces some dandy waves with no help from the boating community.

Anybody who cares about their boat should be taking advantage of the many fine products (e.g., fenders, dock bumpers, mooring whips, decent dock lines with snubbers) designed to prevent wave damage at the dock. (I utilize all of the above, plus back into my slip so the boat's bow faces outward.)

The above statement about Mother Nature also pertains to shoreline erosion. When Mother Nature gets her dander up, she flings waves with no letup whatever, sometimes for days on end. That purely has to be harder on a shoreline than wake action. If your shoreline is vulnerable to erosion, you're polluting the lake. Please stop it by fixing your shoreline, ASAP!

As for injury to a swimmer, I've never heard of a single documented case of this on our lake; have you? By the way, my 89 year old father prefers ocean swimming because he enjoys the waves!

Likewise swampings; cases I've heard of were because of natural lake conditions (such as the recent one off Bear Island).

Canoes, I'll give you; they scare the heck out of me and I won't come anywhere near one (let alone within 150 feet) except at a dead slow crawl. I personally don't think that they belong out of the most sheltered coves on the calmest of days. Seems like they manage to get swamped with monotonous regularity even without assistance from boat wakes.

By the way, I personally enjoy "pootling along" at, if not headway speed, well below hull speed. It's relaxing and much easier on the fuel bills!

Silver Duck

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by ITD

You're being lead down a road, trying to reason with someone who just wants what they want, you won't win with these people, it's not worth arguing with them, these island people who want every other boat off the lake but theirs.

I'm just havin' fun. I know I'll never be successful changing some minds and that's OK.

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I don't contribute to the pollution anywhere near as much as a typical shorefront property owner.

Earlier in this thread the comment was made that islanders have more right to a boat than others. You people jumped all over that one word for a long time.

I don't have a RIGHT to boat. I DO have a RIGHT to my home. My rights to property and to be safe and secure in my home are basic in the Constitution.

Your large boat can (and will) be forced to move to another body of water. My land and home can not be moved.

Your arguments are becoming silly.

The boat I use to get to the island pollutes a little I guess (like most boats), my home does not. Failed septic systems are rare and shut down quickly when found. My septic is state of the art and a long way from the water. I'm not sure how you think my dock pollutes, it doesn't have treated lumber.

[Knot Droolin']

Originally Posted by Islander

Earlier in this thread the comment was made that islanders have more right to a boat than others. You people jumped all over that one word for a long time.

I don't have a RIGHT to boat. I DO have a RIGHT to my home. My rights to property and to be safe and secure in my home are basic in the Constitution.

Rights to land ownership are NOT constitutional as eminent domain is a state by state issue. The Supreme Court recently affirmed this in a case about New London, CT. The state and its people could very well deem your land better servers as a park or as a location for a factory and move you out as long as state law permits it.

Boating, like driving, is also considered a privilege.

[Finder]

Islander, I agree with you on all your major points. However you're wasting your time arguing with these people. They just don't see what you see and their minds are pretty much closed. I have a three foot undercut in my shoreline and trees fall into the lake frequently. In the last twentyfive years what was a sandy bottom is now covered with silt. The emerging water weeds are trapping more silt. The cause is persistent wakes, in an area that is protected against prevailing weather. Where I am, it's caused by circling wake boarders, skiers, and tubers, coupled with a full or above full lake. Those who disagree with you surely won't give you the last word, so this will be my only post on the subject.

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Knot Droolin'

Rights to land ownership are NOT constitutional as eminent domain is a state by state issue. The Supreme Court recently affirmed this in a case about New London, CT. The state and its people could very well deem your land better servers as a park or as a location for a factory and move you out as long as state law permits it.

Boating, like driving, is also considered a privilege.

Perhaps you are not aware that the New Hampshire Constitution does not allow what happened in Connecticut. But just to be sure the legislature passed a law about a year ago to prevent that kind of taking.

Yes, boating is a privilege. We have all agreed to that over and over and over and over.

[tis]

Islander. Knot is right. Even though you are right, the state did pass a law last year- that only prevents the taking of land by eminent domain for private use. The state could still take your land if they decided that it would be a nice place for a park. And the kicker is, they would probably not offer you anywhere near what it is worth.

[Islander]

Knot is Knot right! And neither are you. The owner must be paid fair value.

Even though the Supreme Court ruled in favor of taking the Connecticut homes it never happened. The owners tied them up in lawsuits over the value of the land.

However the issue was boaters vs homeowners on the lake. Some boats can and will be forced off the lake. The state buying up Bear Island to make a park is a pipe dream.

Are you really trying to say that boating on public property is the same as living in your own home?

[Knot Droolin']

Originally Posted by Islander

Knot is Knot right! And neither are you. The owner must be paid fair value.

Even though the Supreme Court ruled in favor of taking the Connecticut homes it never happened. The owners tied them up in lawsuits over the value of the land.

Islander,

You are wrong again, the New London project continues:

http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S=6666355

[Woodsy]

Islander...

I think your a bit off.... IF (and thats a BIG IF) the eco-friendly types got thier way, taking an island by emminent domain and setting it aside for conservation is a very plausible possibility, however unlikely it may seem to you. They could apply for some monster federal grant that requires little or no matching state funds. You are right that they have to offer a fair value... Fair value in this case will most likely be determined by your tax assessment. Its hard to argue that your property is worth more than the tax assessment and win...

Go check out Lake George... there are lots of state owned islands that you can rent and camp on!

I seriously doubt the state of NH will ever ban large boats from Lake Winnipesaukee. There are way too many marinas and boat owners and property owners that will fight that tooth and nail. Before you see large boats banned, or horsepower limits you will see distance restrictions based on weight... similar to the 300' distance from shore requirement for skicraft. A good example would be if your boat weighs more than 10000lbs, you cannot be above headway speed within 300' (or possibly more) of shore. This will help disspate some of the wave energy before it reaches the shoreline...

Woodsy

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Islander...

I think your a bit off.... IF (and thats a BIG IF) the eco-friendly types got thier way, taking an island by emminent domain and setting it aside for conservation is a very plausible possibility, however unlikely it may seem to you. They could apply for some monster federal grant that requires little or no matching state funds. You are right that they have to offer a fair value... Fair value in this case will most likely be determined by your tax assessment. Its hard to argue that your property is worth more than the tax assessment and win...

Go check out Lake George... there are lots of state owned islands that you can rent and camp on!

I seriously doubt the state of NH will ever ban large boats from Lake Winnipesaukee. There are way too many marinas and boat owners and property owners that will fight that tooth and nail. Before you see large boats banned, or horsepower limits you will see distance restrictions based on weight... similar to the 300' distance from shore requirement for skicraft. A good example would be if your boat weighs more than 10000lbs, you cannot be above headway speed within 300' (or possibly more) of shore. This will help disspate some of the wave energy before it reaches the shoreline...

Woodsy

Woodsy - How can you be so wrong?

You said there would never be speed limits. Yet here we are with speed limits on Winnipesaukee this summer.

Its easy to argue assessed values when they are under fair market value, as they usually are.

Based on average property values and the number of homes, buying up Bear Island would cost at least 75 million. It would also involve closing two children's camps in operation for a century and closing two national historic sites. Ya, that's all going to happen. Is this what you dream of when you have those 1500 horsepower going 100 mph past my dock? Does it make you smile?

At least we now know what the anti speed limit crowd REALLY WANT. They want the islands turned into parks so they can stop off and have lunch. Tell the state that when they tear down our homes they should leave the docks and picnic tables to make it nice and comfy for you guys.

[Bear Islander]

Hi Woodsy-

There are also several islands on Winnipesaukee that are parks. Unfortunately, hardly anyone uses them.

[sa meredith]

Curious which Islands are also State Parks..if you have the time to respond.

[Bear Islander]

None of them are state parks. I was using "park" in the generic.

Stonedam, Ragged and Five Mile are in their natural state and accessible under certain conditions. I think the www.bizer.com site has information.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Islander

...Woodsy - How can you be so wrong?...You said there would never be speed limits. Yet here we are with speed limits on Winnipesaukee this summer...

Well Woodsy, at least you are in good company. I remember not too long ago a poster insisting that radio controlled model boats in New Hampshire had to be registered! Hmmm, let me think......

[tis]

Islander-you are wrong, twice. I absolutely do not want any islands turned into parks. Second, they are SUPPOSED to offer fair market value in eminent domain cases, but they don't. I can tell you this for a fact and I can tell you of others who will back me up. I think you have a right to your land and no one should be able to take it away from you. For anything, period. But I would also hope that you wouldn't wish someone to take my boat/s away.

[Woodsy]

Islander...

You sure do have your dander up today!!

We have two speed limit test zones... we do not have a lakewide speed limit. I am as interested as anyone to learn what data comes out of those test zones.

Arguing your assessed tax value in a prolonged eminent domain case would be detrimental to your wealth. I can see you trying to explain that to the town assesor... I am sure the tax assesor would be seeing $$$!

As far as Bear Island property being taken by eminent domain, I was merely pointing out that it could happen. I never said that I wanted it to happen. In fact if you reread my post, you'll note I referenced the Eco-Friendly crowd. The reality is getting 75 million or so from the Feds probably isn't all that hard if it gets the proper political backing. I wonder what NH DES and NH Lakes Assoc thinks??

Woodsy

PS: My boat does not have 1500HP nor does it go 100MPH. In my last run thru Bear Island, 3500 RPM netted 41MPH...

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

....In my last run thru Bear Island, 3500 RPM netted 41MPH...

Well the speed limit in there is 45 MPH and I always heard the minimum speed was 10 less than the maximum. So by that logic, you have to do at least 35 MPH in there.

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Before you see large boats banned, or horsepower limits you will see distance restrictions based on weight... similar to the 300' distance from shore requirement for skicraft. A good example would be if your boat weighs more than 10000lbs, you cannot be above headway speed within 300' (or possibly more) of shore. This will help disspate some of the wave energy before it reaches the shoreline...

Woodsy

From kayak, I've noticed a great many more fresh green trees have fallen in the water this year than in previous years. Take a kayak around and see for yourself.

Last spring, the Dep of Safety suggested 600' to stop wake damage to shorelines but that didn't work out so well, did it? From 600', you can't see what's happened to the shoreline from your wakes.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Gavia immer

From kayak, I've noticed a great many more fresh green trees have fallen in the water this year than in previous years. Take a kayak around and see for yourself.

Last spring, the Dep of Safety suggested 600' to stop wake damage to shorelines but that didn't work out so well, did it? From 600', you can't see what's happened to the shoreline from your wakes.

Could all the trees fallen in the water be a result of high lake levels due to flooding the past 2 seasons?

[Gavia immer]

When the lake gets overfilled, you can expect erosion. The past year of THREE high water episodes will magnify shoreline erosion, with windy days being the worst. Wakes from boats multiply the effect of natural wave action on windy days. On calm days, when no erosion would take place, wakes continue the erosion process and eventually the roots have nothing to hold onto.

A certain number of trees fall in every year. When the trees still have leaves on them, those are recent falls. Compared to previous years, "green falls" since Spring of 2006 are a very high number. "Green falls" are all around, and on all shores. You need to look up close to see that they're newly fallen.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Islander

Your arguments are becoming silly.

You just noticed that? This whole discussion is amusing.




Big wakes are dumb, use excessive gas and cause erosion. I think we all agree on this.

I don't own a cabin cruiser or a GFBL, nor do I wish to.

You can try all you want to change laws and ban big or fast boats but even if you prove to be effective (not likely, based on your awful debating skills) you'll only affect those that own big and fast boats. Not me. I will happily continue to boat, as I have for years, and you'll probably continue to wish things were like the "good old days" and resist change without ever being satisfied. Ever try religion?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Silver Duck

"...I honestly wish that my back didn't prevent my using one to explore parts of the lake that my cruiser can't go..."

Where your cruiser can't go is where kayaking is more pleasant.

My problem is much less with kayaking than with my sailboats getting hammered to a stop by excessive wakes and that small sailboats are disappearing from the lake. Hobie cats, with their two hulls, get banged to a halt even more readily.

I think I'll invite you to sit at my dock some weekend to watch the cruisers go by and watch the shoreline turn to mud with each "pass". To truly experience the cruisers' wakes, (and for your chair's location on the dock), I have just the spot!

Originally Posted by Dave R

"...The lake is far less hectic this year than I have ever seen it for this time of year, I've been coming here for more than 30 years. Two gorgeous Sundays in a row and the lake was practically deserted. Last year was quiet, this year is even quieter, so far..."

Having a "ringside seat" on Winnipesaukee, I agree that some boats must be leaving the area. The size of the average boat appears to be getting much bigger as the years pass.

My "running average" (of about 24-feet) just got a huge bump from a few appearing here these last couple of days. That includes a three-engine Sonic, the largest Cigarette GFBL I've ever seen on the lake, and two "Express Cruisers" of about 35-40 feet. Technically, being an outboard, the Sonic can't be a GFBL, but those three outboards sure get noisy.

Originally Posted by Dave R

"...People are friendlier and there's no bike week to endure..."

Can you account for the "less-friendly" atmosphere here at Winnipesaukee? Did it begin about the time five years ago when I posted the headline here that read, "Winnipesaukee means 'Noise and Action'"?

Bike Week does seem to have attracted a permanent "different sense" to this area.

Now I'm curious what sized boat you have in Maine (and don't apparently use), and what sized boat will you have there when you retire?

Originally Posted by Dave R

"...I don't contribute to the pollution anywhere near as much as a typical shorefront property owner.

You and 120,000 other NH-registered boaters are saying the exact same thing about pollution and erosion!

Originally Posted by Dave R

"...When you are at your lakefront home, do you have a direct view of the water, or is your view obscured by brush and growth? Do you have a beach? Do you have a dock or a boat house? Do you have a path that leads to the water? Do you have a septic system? Any of these things can impact runoff into the lake and will have a much greater impact than a boat running along the surface or at anchor; or sitting on a trailer 50 miles away, 325 days of the year..."

I have a naturally obscured view, an old dock, no path—no beach. My view from the dock is unobstructed for about 185°, and can see about 2 miles north, east and west—even out to The Broads.

"Dry" boat storage and pavement produces sudden runoff even more readily than non-McMansion lakeside residences and boat houses. Even then, I've got many years of experience watching my shoreline disappear. Tree roots uphill are being exposed even as "replacement duff" sprinkles down from the trees and "replacement mud" arrives from uphill.

I have a septic system, but hopefully, so does every boat out there. I expect that all visitors are using the facilities ashore.

Shore facilities—and pumpouts from those big boats—go somewhere.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by SweetCraft

Don't waste your time/energy.... these are same "gang" of posters that beat up every other poster who doesn't agree with their views. Once you express a concern for the lake, its future and protecting it you are immediately a snob, elitest, liberal , Democrat, land baron, tree hugger, green party member, communist..... this happens every year whether its speed limits or the environment. Join the rest of us that want to do actual WORK to protect the lake and keep it pristine for future generations. Why? Because its THE RIGHT THING TO DO. I wish we had room for all the boats and all the world to use it. God knows I LOVE a party . But we don't .... a limited resource will eventually need to limit access unfortunately to be protected. BIG Boats (Wakes) and yes probably lawns, fertizilers, clear cutting into the hill side, new houses, septics etc will be legislated further and part of the solution as they do the most damage. It sucks sometimes but that its reality in an ever crowed world. Stop "attacking" and start coming up with solutions?????

If history repeats itself...

Governor's Island in background, 1929...

Here's an idea, the membership of Island Marina Assoc. donates the proerty to a conservation group, after eliminating all evidence of a marina, as unihabited land.

How's that for reality taking a bite?