Accident near Traffic Circle

[dmjr]

Did anyone hear anything more about the accident at the traffic circle that claimed its first life in Meredith?

[Windrider]

Believe the accident happened around 11:00 AM this morning, at least that is when the police and ambulances headed to the scene. Parade Road was closed from the Meredith end to Pease Road until about 5:15. I understand that there were two Medivac helicopters on the scene but cannot confirm that as I didn't see them personally. No more news on how many were injured or worse. One can only hope for the best for the victims.

[Pineedles]

Can anyone provide an aerial view of this new traffic circle or a denoted map of the area? It sounds deadly, and now it seems proven to be an area to avoid if possible.

[csuhockey3]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Can anyone provide an aerial view of this new traffic circle or a denoted map of the area? It sounds deadly, and now it seems proven to be an area to avoid if possible.

Hi Pineedles,

From the previous thread, see the PDF here with "projected" views of the construction. I have yet to see it myself either.

[Mr. V]

I have to think that the circle is fine, it is the drivers who are negligent and careless.

C'mon, do you really think the State of New Hampshire wouldn't know how to design and build one of these traffic circles?

It's not rocket science to safely negotiate one, either.

Slow down, pay attention, and all will be well.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

According to WMUR (last night), it had nothing to do with the circle. A motorcycle crossed the yellow line on Parade Road and hit another motorcycle head on. One of the drivers was killed.

[SteveA]

PBR is correct. The accident was on Parade Road near Winton Street. Not in the new circle. Sad event regardless of the location.

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...301/-1/CITIZEN

[wires1999]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I have to think that the circle is fine, it is the drivers who are negligent and careless.

C'mon, do you really think the State of New Hampshire wouldn't know how to design and build one of these traffic circles?

It's not rocket science to safely negotiate one, either.

Slow down, pay attention, and all will be well.

Ummm, yea, I guess you've never been behind a tractor trailer or pickup towing a 26' or longer boat through there. It is physically impossable navigate without running over curb and onto the "cobble stones". It'll be gone once a "higher up" is stuck behind one of those. Have you personally tried to tow anything large through there? Just wondering since you have an opinion different than most people who actually live here.

[Zeke]

It is obvious that a good many memebers do not like traffic rounabouts. And in this case, were quick to blame a traffic circle. It's not the circle, it's driver error, the cause of just about every accident. Pay attention, your driving a vehicle, and it's a big responsibility. Having spent a fair bit of time driving in Europe and using them, I think they are an excellent design idea. They keep traffic moving and avoid backups. My sense is this dislike is more a matter of unfamiliarity. They do however require you pay attention, a concept most drivers would rather not have to deal with. The big error the DOT engineers have made is not accounting for the fact that to many drivers do not have a clue, and drive like crap. Conceptually, they work great. Put down your phone, finish your 3 course meal before you drive, get your news from the radio instead of reading the paper, and drive the car. rant over

[Island Life]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I have to think that the circle is fine, it is the drivers who are negligent and careless.

C'mon, do you really think the State of New Hampshire wouldn't know how to design and build one of these traffic circles?

It's not rocket science to safely negotiate one, either.

Slow down, pay attention, and all will be well.

I have to disagree. I'm a very good driver, but this particular traffic circle makes me nervous. Someone's going to get hurt here. The circle is tiny and very narrow, and the curbs are high and steep. Hit one of those and you'll blow a tire for sure. I drive through rotaries every day at home (and yes, I know this is a "roundabout") and most often - not always, but usually - they work well. But this one is different. It strikes me as very poorly designed, something we will complain about for years to come.

Drive it once or twice before you put so much faith in NH's traffic engineers and so little faith in the people here who are telling you that it is dangerous.

[Resident 2B]

Zeke,

Excellent rant!

R2B

[hazelnut]

We have a couple of traffic circles here where I live full time. I am constantly amazed by how idiotic people are in a traffic circle. I mean it's like having a test where you have the answers in front of you and you STILL get an F.

The signs tell you who should Yield yet people still come blasting in to the circle as if they have the right of way. My guess is that these are the same idiots who think that they always have the right of way on the water regardless if they are the give way boat. It really isn't that hard just pay attention.

[Pineedles]

Thanks. Now I understand the location of the circle. Must have mised it on the previous thread. It doesn't look like they changed anything on the Rt. 104 & 3 Intersection. I was concerned that it too was incorporated into the circle.

[wildwoodfam]

[QUOTE=hazelnut]We have a couple of traffic circles here where I live full time. The signs tell you who should Yield yet people still come blasting in to the circle as if they have the right of way. QUOTE]

It amazes me each morning as I head off to work and have to merge with another on ramp line which has a Yield sign to my on ramp - the amount of idiots and careless drivers who would risk getting into an auto accident at a major highway on ramp rather than obey the law and let the right of way folks get ahead of them. My daughter used to ask "daddy why did you beep the horn at that driver" - now when I beep the horn she simply says 'guess they forgot to yield again, didn't they daddy." At age 7 she already knows the concept!!

It's become "I gotta get there first and fastest" as opposed to "I gotta get there!"

As for traffic circles - there is a notorious one in Methuen, MA - which unfortunately backs up traffic onto 93 because -- yes, you guessed it -- people are clueless on right of way and entering one of these things. Even though this particular "rotary" has been there since I-93 was built in the 60's!

North Andover, MA is planning one for its Olde Center - its taken them 4 years to do the preconstruction work - it'll be another 4 to get the rotary in place and another 40 before folks understand how to drive in it!

[OFD232]

Originally Posted by Zeke

It is obvious that a good many memebers do not like traffic rounabouts. And in this case, were quick to blame a traffic circle. It's not the circle, it's driver error, the cause of just about every accident. Pay attention, your driving a vehicle, and it's a big responsibility. Having spent a fair bit of time driving in Europe and using them, I think they are an excellent design idea. They keep traffic moving and avoid backups. My sense is this dislike is more a matter of unfamiliarity. They do however require you pay attention, a concept most drivers would rather not have to deal with. The big error the DOT engineers have made is not accounting for the fact that to many drivers do not have a clue, and drive like crap. Conceptually, they work great. Put down your phone, finish your 3 course meal before you drive, get your news from the radio instead of reading the paper, and drive the car. rant over

Sounds remarkably like Roundabouts don't kill people, people kill people HMMM maybe

[wires1999]

Originally Posted by Zeke

It is obvious that a good many memebers do not like traffic rounabouts. And in this case, were quick to blame a traffic circle. It's not the circle, it's driver error, the cause of just about every accident. Pay attention, your driving a vehicle, and it's a big responsibility. Having spent a fair bit of time driving in Europe and using them, I think they are an excellent design idea. They keep traffic moving and avoid backups. My sense is this dislike is more a matter of unfamiliarity. They do however require you pay attention, a concept most drivers would rather not have to deal with. The big error the DOT engineers have made is not accounting for the fact that to many drivers do not have a clue, and drive like crap. Conceptually, they work great. Put down your phone, finish your 3 course meal before you drive, get your news from the radio instead of reading the paper, and drive the car. rant over

Again you're missing the point. Maybe you should read what most of us are saying. It's tooooooo narrow, not the idea of the circle. Again it's toooooo narrow. Try towing a trailer with a medium to large boat through there then give your opinion.

[vrrooom]

Interesting dialogue as I am in Middletown WI this week, and low and behold I came upon an identical (to the Meridith) structure. But the big difference is that the size of the circle is 1.5-2X the one in NH . When I say identical, right down to the center island design and granite curbs. My suspicion is that this design is a standard highway design (prehaps someone can find it in the DOT database) that NH DOT has lifted. The larger structure here seemed to work well with Semi's ( I saw 2 go arround both 90 and 180 degrees of the circle) with out hitting either the inside island or curbs.

[Misty Blue]

This is just stupid.

The new "roundabout" in Meredith was a solution looking for a problem. I live here and use parade road often and very rarely have I had a problem making a left and heading down the hill.

These roundabouts may work in Europe, but this ain't Europe. Our vehicles are bigger and can not negotiate these things with ease. What's more, look at where they put it! On a down hill on RT-3! RT-3 is a MAJOR road in these parts. Much of the comerce that takes place between the industrial south of the state and the north country must pass this roadblock. I do not know how they will ever get a modular home past it.

Nope. Until you have had to squeeze your cheeks through this hole in the wall you really can't understand.

Misty Blue

[rander7823]

This going to save me a lot of money. Looks like it is right near the Annalee shop. Now I can tell my wife it is too dangerous to go there

[fatlazyless]

According to the info in last week's LaDaSun, the large square granite pavers in the center are not curbs but are a central rumble zone for big trucks and big trailers, because their rear wheels track in a tighter radius than the front steering wheels and are welcome to roll......er, make that rumble.... over the granite pavers. After bike week, another layer of asphalt will be added to make the road level with the granite pavers.

As you already know, the vehicles already in the rotary have the right of way, so the vehicles entering the rotary are the give-way or yielding vehicle.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by dmjr

Did anyone hear anything more about the accident at the traffic circle that claimed its first life in Meredith?

A collision between two bikes. Every death I heard about this weekend all had the word "collision" in them. I wonder how many of these could of been prevented it the cyclist wasn't stradling the solid center line. Why is it, they have to ride so that an actual portion of their bike is in the opposite lane. Rte 104 was crazy this weekend with idiots that thought the center line was there for cars only.

[wires1999]

Originally Posted by Misty Blue

This is just stupid.

The new "roundabout" in Meredith was a solution looking for a problem. I live here and use parade road often and very rarely have I had a problem making a left and heading down the hill.

These roundabouts may work in Europe, but this ain't Europe. Our vehicles are bigger and can not negotiate these things with ease. What's more, look at where they put it! On a down hill on RT-3! RT-3 is a MAJOR road in these parts. Much of the comerce that takes place between the industrial south of the state and the north country must pass this roadblock. I do not know how they will ever get a modular home past it.

Nope. Until you have had to squeeze your cheeks through this hole in the wall you really can't understand. I totally agree. Never mind the modular home, it's a challenge to manuver a long boat trailer around there. Huh, boat trailers around a lake, who'd a thunk it. Also, I've been @ this lake for 20 yrs and didn't know there was a problem in that area. Was there enough to justify this nonsense?

Misty Blue

I totally agree. Never mind the modular home, it's a challenge to manuver a long boat trailer around there. Huh, boat trailers around a lake, who'd a thunk it. Also, I've been @ this lake for 20 yrs and didn't know there was a problem in that area. Was there enough to justify this nonsense?

[hilltopper]

Originally Posted by GTO

A collision between two bikes. Every death I heard about this weekend all had the word "collision" in them. I wonder how many of these could of been prevented it the cyclist wasn't stradling the solid center line. Why is it, they have to ride so that an actual portion of their bike is in the opposite lane. Rte 104 was crazy this weekend with idiots that thought the center line was there for cars only.

The non-bikers AND the bikers at a party we had this weekend referred to them as the "Centerliners". It's almost like they think they have a force field around them. It was our first bike week living in Meredith. We had a group of friends over and just hunkered down. No need to venture out on 4 wheels, colide with one of the "Centerliners", and then have to live with the guilt.

hilltopper

[Misty Blue]

FFL

I was not aware that they were planning on filling in the circle to the level of the stones. While I still don't understand the need for the roundabout filling it in will vastly improve the situation.

Misty Blue.

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

According to the info in last week's LaDaSun, the large square granite pavers in the center are not curbs but are a central rumble zone for big trucks and big trailers, because their rear wheels track in a tighter radius than the front steering wheels and are welcome to roll......er, make that rumble.... over the granite pavers. After bike week, another layer of asphalt will be added to make the road level with the granite pavers.

FLL, you are correct. The paved width of a roundabout is typically only designed to accommodate a car. Trucks and anything towing a trailer will put their inside rear wheels up onto the granite truck apron. The reasoning behind this is if you make the paved surface wide enough for a truck, it is too wide for a car, leading to higher speed. It also allows traffic traveling straight through to “straighten” their path, once again allowing higher speed and decreasing safety. There is a roundabout even smaller than the Meredith one at the end of the street I live on here in CT, so I have gotten used to how it works. Heck, I live down the street from a fire station, and they have no problem whatsoever in the trucks.

[Windrider]

The new circle works great. I pass through several times a day and find it a great improvement. There was an issuethere in the past if you were turning left from Parade Road. Anyone who experienced that during commuting hours understands how difficult it could be to make that turn.

I've seen large trucks as well as cars hauling boats negotiate the roundabout with a problem.

There was no long back up of bikers the past week as was the case last year. If you understand the concept of yield, you'll have no problem. If not, well, you're going to keep complaining.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Windrider

The new circle works great. I pass through several times a day and find it a great improvement. There was an issuethere in the past if you were turning left from Parade Road. Anyone who experienced that during commuting hours understands how difficult it could be to make that turn.

I've seen large trucks as well as cars hauling boats negotiate the roundabout with a problem.

There was no long back up of bikers the past week as was the case last year. If you understand the concept of yield, you'll have no problem. If not, well, you're going to keep complaining.

I don't know what day you went through there last week, but I was there on Saturday, and there was a backup almost all the way back to the Wiers. I don't think it was caused by the traffic circle, because when I turned left onto 104, traffic was backed up all the way down the hill, or so it appeared.

[nj2nh]

I have read the entire thread and understand basically where this new circle is, but am hoping for landmarks rather than highway numbers. Is this the intersection near the Burlwood Antique Center, right where the McDonald's is up on the hill?

I hate that intersection, but I hate rotaries (as we call in Massachusetts) even more. There is one down here in Bloomfield NJ that is simply hellish although it really isn't any worse than any other. I am not too fond of the one in Epsom, either. I guess I just don't like the darned things.

Jersey Girl
(two days and counting!)

[fatlazyless]

It's located on the Daniel Webster Highway, aka Route 3, a couple hundred yards up the hill from McDonalds, directly next to the Pemi Glass business, and just below the top of the hill. As you drive around the round-about, there's a 30 mile view to the north that includes Red Hill, Sandwich Mt, Squam Mt, Mt Wonaloncet and Jennings Peak to name a few. All in the southern White Mountain National Forest, and the Sandwich Notch Wilderness Area.

You may want to drive around it a few times to get a better view as the mountains get lit up, yellow-red-black, by the setting sun.

[imalocal]

Originally Posted by Windrider

The new circle works great. I pass through several times a day and find it a great improvement. There was an issuethere in the past if you were turning left from Parade Road. Anyone who experienced that during commuting hours understands how difficult it could be to make that turn.

I've seen large trucks as well as cars hauling boats negotiate the roundabout with a problem.

There was no long back up of bikers the past week as was the case last year. If you understand the concept of yield, you'll have no problem. If not, well, you're going to keep complaining.

Now if we can get people to use turn signals......... There are many times I use the circle (I go through at least twice a day) that I yield to someone in the circle who then exits at the last second without a signal.

[michael c]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

It's located on the Daniel Webster Highway, aka Route 3, a couple hundred yards up the hill from McDonalds, directly next to the Pemi Glass business, and just below the top of the hill. As you drive around the round-about, there's a 30 mile view to the north that includes Red Hill, Sandwich Mt, Squam Mt, Mt Wonaloncet and Jennings Peak to name a few. All in the southern White Mountain National Forest, and the Sandwich Notch Wilderness Area.

You may want to drive around it a few times to get a better view as the mountains get lit up, yellow-red-black, by the setting sun.

For you old timers, it is directly in front of the old Spragues building and the body shops in town had better add extra bays soon ...gonna need them ...

[Windrider]

Originally Posted by chipj29

I don't know what day you went through there last week, but I was there on Saturday, and there was a backup almost all the way back to the Wiers. I don't think it was caused by the traffic circle, because when I turned left onto 104, traffic was backed up all the way down the hill, or so it appeared.

Actually chipj29, you are undoubtedly correct, I was thinking about Parade Road which, in years past, has had some long backups throughout Bike Week. Perhaps the Route 3 backup was as a result of the accident on Saturday which closed Parade Road for about six hours and likely diverted some traffic onto Route 3. Still, I'm convinced that the roundabout is a success so far and people seem to be willing to yield....remarkable.

[gravy boat]

Hubby, the girlies and I headed to Meredith for dinner this evening and were able to experience the circle/roundabout at about 6:15 pm. Having grown up in South Jersey where negotiating a circle was a part of daily life, I have to say that the design was not what I am used to...it didn't seem to flow at all. Maybe my living in NH for almost 20 years has left my circle skills rusty. Hubby and I agreed that the cobblestone area on the inner circle makes no sense to us and could be hazardous at best. There must be a reason for that design, but we don't see the benefit.

We just don't understand why a traffic circle was necessary at that location...traffic is fairly heavy for 2 months a year, that's about it (personal experience only -- we don't have to travel that route daily).

Maybe this was addressed earlier in this thread or elsewhere on the forum, so please bear with us. Can anybody offer the reasons/justification by the town/state regarding this?

Thank you -- Gravy

[shooter]

The reason and justification for the traffic circle is that the state and town have nothing better to spend the tax payers money on , the schools are great taxes are low , the extra money that the state and town has ,should be spent on great ideas like this , after all it keeps people working. you know workers to design workers to build and now workers and engineers to tear the mess down then they can spend more money to figure out who thought of this foolish idiotic project , keep smilin folks your politicians are hard at work for you , god bless america.amen PS... maybe they could spend some more excess money and build a bridge over the traffic circle in case someone wants to tow their boat to the launching ramp , ya that would be nice because some people in the area do have boats you know .

[bigpapi34]

i responded to that call with MFD...it was no where near the traffic circle it was about 4 mile into parade road

[fatlazyless]

How's this for a simile? The new round-about is like a turbo-charger that spins around and speeds up the traffic flow, plus it's safer, too.

Maybe, what it needs is someone to stand in the center and wave their arms around like a conductor instructing an orchestre? The new round-about just requires a little practice, that's all.

Plymouth has a very similar, new round-about to replace their infamous three-way stop plus an attached bridge. The brand new bridge spans the Pemigewassett River with two pedestrian walkways and two lanes for vehicles. It is incredibly majestic and very large. It really has transformed the main entrance to Plymouth on Rt 175, coming from Holderness and Rt 93 - exit 25.

A hundred years from now, will these same round-abouts still be in use..............most likely! In two hundred years.......?

[Lin]

We went through the new roundabout this weekend. After dealing with the infamous Westborough and Concord Rotaries in MA, this one was sort of a breeze albeit very different for the area. I saw a sign that said trucks, and I'd assume that would mean long trailers, can use the cobble circle part of the round about to help manuever through the area. Don't know if cars following you though would know that you can do that and your're not a hazard driver and call you in. However I found it very tight and I'd love to see how it is plowed in the winter. I think their DPW's will have a heck of a time keeping it clear in heavy snow.

[macshpman]

We have a couple of roundabouts here in Nashua with the beautiful cobblestone inside ring. From what I can see is that these are just a scaled down Daytona or Talladega the way people drive thru them. What I dont understand is the cobblestone. Would not the inside circle be pit row? That cobblestone has to be hard on the jackman and tire changers.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Is the radius of the circle large enough to get through pulling my 24' camping trailer? I will say with certainty that if I enter a circle and my tires are in danger of climbing a curb and being cut I will stop and wait for the local PD to advise how to safely get out, maybe they can provide boards to safely negotiate the curb. I expect the lanes to be no less that 12 feet wide and the inner diameter of the circle to be 50 feet. Anything less incompetent design. Don't bother to blow your horn, I won't move.

[chmeeee]

The design should be sufficient for a 50-foot 18-wheeler to pass through safely. The roundabout is designed however with the intention of longer vehicles putting their inside rear wheels on the cobblestones. There is no raised lip or anything, they are just sloped upwards from the pavement level (assuming the top course has been put down by now), where they are flush, to discourage cars from traveling on them.

EDIT: Here is a good resource for roundabout info, the citizen's guide in particular will explain a lot:

https://www.nysdot.gov/portal/page/p...in/roundabouts

[wires1999]

Originally Posted by chmeeee

The design should be sufficient for a 50-foot 18-wheeler to pass through safely. The roundabout is designed however with the intention of longer vehicles putting their inside rear wheels on the cobblestones. There is no raised lip or anything, they are just sloped upwards from the pavement level (assuming the top course has been put down by now), where they are flush, to discourage cars from traveling on them.

EDIT: Here is a good resource for roundabout info, the citizen's guide in particular will explain a lot:

https://www.nysdot.gov/portal/page/p...in/roundabouts

Ok, now I see how it's designed to work. Pavement must be brought up flush to cobblestones if there haven't already. Is there a sign yet to tell non-tt drivers that it's ok to use the cobblestones as part of the roadway if needed?

[MWSP]

The top layer of paving is not on. Saw a log truck today that stopped twice and backed up in the circle trying to make it around. The DOT people standing on the cobbles didn't look impressed.

[Windrider]

Originally Posted by RI Swamp Yankee

Is the radius of the circle large enough to get through pulling my 24' camping trailer? I will say with certainty that if I enter a circle and my tires are in danger of climbing a curb and being cut I will stop and wait for the local PD to advise how to safely get out, maybe they can provide boards to safely negotiate the curb. I expect the lanes to be no less that 12 feet wide and the inner diameter of the circle to be 50 feet. Anything less incompetent design. Don't bother to blow your horn, I won't move.

Perhaps you'd be happier vacationing in Maine?

[fatlazyless]

Three guesses who pays for almost all tire damage? It's not the trucking company. It's definately not the New Hampshire Dept of Transportaion. It gets witheld from the truck driver's paycheck. So, it's understandable why the driver doesn't trust the sign 'trucks use cobbles'.

'Hey Boss, I'm telling ya, the sign right there said it was perfectly ok to pull the rear tandems up and over the cobbles.......the ripped tires are not my fault......it's should be on the state's nickel........baawaaawaaawaaa!'

[nj2nh]

Okay, we drove through the roundabout about three times while we were at the lake last week. It really is awful. I grew up with rotaries and this is the worst one I have ever seen.

Jersey Girl
(back in Jersey)

[skisox24]

OK, Wires1999, why is it again that TT drivers should be singled out from the permissive use of the cobblestones? The rotary is a bad design for commercial trucks and for those toting boat trailers, for sure. Since I do not belong in either group my perception of the rotary has altered from initial dismay to present approval. For those needing to take a left on Rt #3 from Parade Road (106) the new pattern is a relief particularly during the busy summer season. The alternative to the rotary would have been another traffic light. Anyone who has spent tedious time heading west on Rt. # 25 to Meredith Center in the summer months is deliriously pleased that they don't have to cope with yet another poorly timed traffic light cycle. And, lastly, the rotary sure slows traffic speed down which is a very welcome by-product of this intersection change.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

We had our first experience on the new traffic device today and after reading the comments here were greatly releaved that it was quite normal in proportions for a round about of 1 lane. The inner curb was a bit unusual. I was pleased to see that the curb stones that boarder the asphalt to cobble transition are actually ramped to facilitate the trailer tires rise to the cobbles.

There was a quite a bit of traffic on the Sunday morning. Going through the round a bout was a non event. We thought is worked quite well. I would bring my boat trailer over the cobbles.

[Mickomally]

Originally Posted by skisox24

Anyone who has spent tedious time heading west on Rt. # 25 to Meredith Center in the summer months is deliriously pleased that they don't have to cope with yet another poorly timed traffic light cycle.

Just clarrifying...
Route 25 heads into downtown Meredith, and not Meredith Center. Meredith Center is actually on the outskirts of meredith (Its wierd I know....theres a history to that). I believe you are referring to the lights at the intersection of 3 & 25.
I figures that is what you meant, I just wanted to clarrify that so us locals, or people familiar with the actual Meredith Center weren't confused.

[skisox24]

My bad, Mickomally. You are, of course, quite correct....I was referring to the intersection of rts # 3 and # 25, and not to the traditional Meredith Center. In any event, my point was that I am pleased that we don't have to deal with another traffic light in Meredith and will happily tolerate the new rotary/roundabout.

[Weirs guy]

I finally got to experience the circle of death this weekend twice. While I'm not in love with it, its not as bad as I expected. I'll wait till they are done for my final judgement.

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by Jersey Girl

Okay, we drove through the roundabout about three times while we were at the lake last week. It really is awful. I grew up with rotaries and this is the worst one I have ever seen.

Jersey Girl
(back in Jersey)

Just out of curiousity, whats so awful about it? I drove through it 3 times this weekend, and its a perfectly fine design. Once they put the top course of pavement down (you can tell looking at the curbs on the entry and exit areas that its not down yet), the cobbles will be flush with the pavement.

[AC2717]

For trucks that is great to get up on the cobbles, but honestly that is extremely tight for a car no matter how you slice it, even at 5 mph, when your heading up the street at 30 mph and have to almost slow to a stop with cars coming from behind you right from the light and the 104 merge it is not great, or the other way on a downhill slope, jokingly maybe the state needed to inadvertently generate income through police details after a accident form someone getting rear-ended on their way to slowing to almost a complete stop to go into the rotary when there are no cars on it to begin with

I honestly think they need to widen the entrances and exits off the rotary they are too tight and sharp! the size of the rotary itself is fine. the

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Windrider

Perhaps you'd be happier vacationing in Maine?

Yup, that is where I am going next week. Thanks.

BTW: We have enough bad roads in RI designed by incompetent "engineers" in RIDOT, don't need to see more.

[Mickomally]

I can't believe it, but it's growing on me. I HATED this idea, hated it more when I first saw it, but now It's growing on me.
I guess as a "typcal local" I am sorta skeptical of change, but it seems to be working okay so far.
Now if we can just get people to use their turn signals (Police and Troopes included!!) while they are in the circle before exiting.

[Windrider]

Originally Posted by Mickomally

I can't believe it, but it's growing on me. I HATED this idea, hated it more when I first saw it, but now It's growing on me.
I guess as a "typcal local" I am sorta skeptical of change, but it seems to be working okay so far.
Now if we can just get people to use their turn signals (Police and Troopes included!!) while they are in the circle before exiting.

Another convert!! As a Parade Road resident life has become so much easier with the new roundabout. Yes, people who don't understand it will continue to gripe about it not being wide enough etc. and, yes, folks do need to use their turn signals but, all in all it really works just fine, even for trucks and cars with boats. Good job to the DOT and my sympathies if they read this site, at least early on.

[Puck]

Ok after following this thread and listening to my relatives bemoan the new circle all weekend I just had to go the long way home so I could go around it myself. Now don't get me wrong, I have no problems with the traffic circle concept but.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Very quaint with the cobbles and all. Just two little problems: A low bed trailer will not have enough ground clearance to get up on the cobbles and the state doesn't own a plow that can navigate it with the blade down.

[boat_guy64]

I just spent 9 days in Meredith and negotiated the roundabout many times. I still don't like it. I waited several times in lines of traffice going both north and south and was almost hit by someone coming out of parade road that was probably going through for the first time. You have to wonder if it can possible be a good design if it requires 3 large lighted signs running 24/7 for the past month just so that people know what to do.

[sa meredith]

OK...so yesterday, because of the rain, we took the niece and nephew to the Weirs for some ski ball and bumper cars. On the way back, I drove up onto the cobble stones on the rotary (or roundabout...whatever) just so I could post today that I did it.
Try it.

[Newbiesaukee]

Not sure of the correct protocol, but it seems to me that using turn signals in the roundabout kind of slows things down and would be confusing. Am I missing something important or just misunderstanding?

[hilltopper]

I've only gone through it twice now. Both times, heading home from Laconia to Meredith, I have noticed that drivers coming into the circle from the Meredith side of Route 3 have not even look to their left for oncoming traffic. If I were continuing in the circle like I was heading to Parade Road instead of Route 3 south, it would have been ugly. Hopefully as people use it more they'll figure it out but something tells me they won't.

[dan]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

Not sure of the correct protocol, but it seems to me that using turn signals in the roundabout kind of slows things down and would be confusing. Am I missing something important or just misunderstanding?

Turn signals should be used. Without them any one else would have to stop until they see you commit to some direction. If memory serves me that could have up to 4 people not knowing what you are going to do. " Enter from Meredith, pass parade rd, don't head to Laconia, miss Pemi glass and finally take a rt. back the way you came."

[sa meredith]

I'm not trying to be rude, honestly! But someone has to explain to me WHAT THE BIG DEAL IS!!!!!!!! It's a rotary people! Nothing new. Just a plain old rotary. In the town I grew in, there was no less than 10. Do people honestly not know what to do when entering one? Maybe rotaries are just MA things?
When I saw the instructions in bright lights, I laughed out loud. Honestly, are they not used nation wide? That would explain it.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

I'd have to agree, it's no big deal. In terms of the cobbles, it is my understanding that the pavement will be brought up so everything will be even. I don't mind, just something new to get used to. Kind of like life

[Newbiesaukee]

I appreciate the response. However, there is a very short time to put your turn signal on and I won't go into the circle based on someone's turn signal as half the time people do not know they are on...I just will not commit to entering the circle until I see the car in the circle to the left turn off of the circle. I am familiar with traffic circles, I just do not trust drivers intentions based only only on the turn signal. In a perfect world I see your point, but still not sure I agree.

[sa meredith]

The whole point is to keep cars moving....don't wait.
It's a rotary. Technically, a person could spend all day driving in one circle if he so chooses. When he is ready to exit, flip on the right side directional and turn off. And the best part about a rotary, is if you miss your turn off, just keep going, and it will be there next time around ...I promise.
But, holy cow, don't wait until the other driver has turned off. They are designed for more than one car at a time.
Embrace the rotary...do not fear it.

[hiker47]

I have driven roundabouts through out the UK, both small towns and large cities (London) and find them a great way for directing traffic but, people need to know the correct "ettiquette" (simply how to novigate them safely and correctly). Unfortunately, many US drives do not possess this knowledge or skill. The Rt 3 / Parade roundabout is poorly designed and a hazard, irregardless of knowledge or skill. The diameter is too small, especially for large trucks or trailers, and the use of the cobblestone is both contradiction to safety and traffic movement. The idea is great but the design faulty.

Irregardless of fault and location, it is a shame someone died in the accident. May they rest in peace.

Safe travel. doc

[sa meredith]

Someone died in an accident at this thing? I guess I never read the whole thread, as I had no idea. I'm embarrassed at having made a joke of this whole situation. My apologies to anyone I may have offended.

[SIKSUKR]

The accident was NOT in the rotary.

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Someone died in an accident at this thing?

Actually...

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

According to WMUR (last night), it had nothing to do with the circle. A motorcycle crossed the yellow line on Parade Road and hit another motorcycle head on. One of the drivers was killed.

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by hiker47

The diameter is too small, especially for large trucks or trailers, and the use of the cobblestone is both contradiction to safety and traffic movement. The idea is great but the design faulty.

The cobblestone truck apron is a fairly standard design, and is addressed in every design guideline that I have ever seen for roundabouts.

http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/00-0676.pdf

In cases where right-of-way, topography, or other constraints preclude the ability to expand the inscribed circle diameter, a mountable apron may be added to the outer edge of the central island. This provides additional paved area to allow the over-tracking of large semi-trailer vehicles on the central island without compromising the deflection for smaller vehicles. Exhibit 6-23 shows a typical central island with a traversable apron.

Where aprons are used, they should be designed so that they are traversable by trucks, but discourage passenger vehicles from using them. They should generally be 1 to 4 m (3 to 13 ft) wide and have a cross slope of 3 to 4 percent away from the central island. To discourage use by passenger vehicles, the outer edge of the apron should be raised a minimum of 30 mm (1.2 in) above the circulatory roadway surface (6). The apron should be constructed of colored and/or textured paving materials to differentiate it from the circulatory roadway. Care must be taken to ensure that delivery trucks will not experience load shifting as their rear trailer wheels track across the apron.

[B R]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I have to think that the circle is fine, it is the drivers who are negligent and careless.

C'mon, do you really think the State of New Hampshire wouldn't know how to design and build one of these traffic circles?

It's not rocket science to safely negotiate one, either.

You may want to re-think that. I heard they took the snow plows out for a test drive around the new circle. They can't make that tight of a turn and will end up ripping up the inner part of the circle. You can already see the wear on the inner circle from truck tires not able to negotiate that tight a turn.

Let's see what it looks like after the winter.

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by B R

I heard they took the snow plows out for a test drive around the new circle. They can't make that tight of a turn and will end up ripping up the inner part of the circle.

So maybe I'm on to something here:

circle of death = traffic slow down
circle of death + 6" of unplowed snow = even greater traffic slow down


chmeeee, I do have a real question. Is there a purpose to having such a sharp edge on the granite curbs (both in the circle of death and everywhere else)? It seems to me that something so clearly able to cut a tire or gash a rim must have a logical reason behind it? Is it just a simple case of dulling the edge being cost prohibitive? I've always wondered.

[Linda's Pep]

Web Admin,

The title is apparently leading to mis-information on & off the forum. (Never underestimate the ability of the grate unwashed masses to mis-reed a simple sentance.

Can we get the thread changed to correct this, maybe, "Meredith Roundup" or "Rt 3 blunder"

tx

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

chmeeee, I do have a real question. Is there a purpose to having such a sharp edge on the granite curbs (both in the circle of death and everywhere else)? It seems to me that something so clearly able to cut a tire or gash a rim must have a logical reason behind it? Is it just a simple case of dulling the edge being cost prohibitive? I've always wondered.

Granite curb generally always has a somewhat sharp edge to it, due to the nature of granite. No matter how you cut it, it will likely have a sharp corner. Concrete curbs generally have more rounded edges, but also deteriorate faster, leading to an ugly curb. Either way though, the granite should be near flush when the final layer of asphalt is put down.

[Pineedles]

It is the Granite State you know! Duh.

[hiker47]

Roundabouts may have a raised "central" core, similar to a breakdown lane ( but not for that purpose) that a vehicle can pass over but the main travel lane is flat / paved. Concerns with snow plowing, etc are potentials hazards with raised pavers. Individuals not familar with roundabouts may be confused or unsure. Speed is an issue as well as the "right of way". A very good example is the roundabout at the junction of rt 9 / 5 / IS 91 in Brattelboro , Vt just over the NH border. The idea is fine but the design flawed (even governments make errors)

[Weirs guy]

Thanks chmeeee, I've always wondered why and now I know.

Linda's Pep, my reference to "circle of death" has nothing to do with the title of this thread, I just find it a fun little nickname for, err, uhm, the circle of death! See, flows nicely. (Its actually the name of a college drinking game)

[Alton Bay Bob]

After reading all the posts and enjoying the roundabout myself several times, it seems to me that this would be a great place to have a web cam!

[Weirs guy]

Time to beat the dead horse again.

So my brothers-cousins-aunts-sisters-neighbor told me that the state has gone out and bought a special plow truck just for the circle of deaths in Meredith and Plymouth. Anyone else hear about this?

[Paugus Bay Resident]

This it

[SteveA]

Nice post!

[Mickomally]

I was behind an 18 wheeler going through the circle in Plymouth today. The driver used the cobbles as they are supposed to (the pavement is pretty much flush with them) and they went 3/4 of the way around no problem at all....pretty slick.
I know there was some debate on this before and I just wanted to say what I saw.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

Thanks chmeeee, I've always wondered why and now I know.

Linda's Pep, my reference to "circle of death" has nothing to do with the title of this thread, I just find it a fun little nickname for, err, uhm, the circle of death! See, flows nicely. (Its actually the name of a college drinking game)

Circle of Death reminded me of the Wall of Death



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