Stand on Boat Question

andyporter · 08-20-2007, 02:39 AM

Are you sure that was her dock? Or was she dropping someone off? I think by telling her you were filming or taking pictures or whatever you fueled the situation. Now maybe I'm wrong I wasn't there. All I'm saying is no one likes a snitch! Was she coming after you or just showing off. Man if I had I dollar for all the jerks that almost hit me over the years I could buy you property! HA HA!!! And is there a forum where I can bitch about every MASSHOLE car driver that cuts me off? Just sayin' boat safely and love the lake!

Lakegeezer · 08-20-2007, 06:46 AM

Since you were going slow, you could only have altered course to a small degree. I've never heard anything about requiring the stand-off boat to change speed - just direction. No matter what direction you moved in, your movement would not have significantly altered the passage distance between you. All stand-off means (to me at least) is that you are responsible to alter course so that there is at least 150 feet on passage. There are often fishing boats near the shore (or even in traffic lanes such as the graveyard) moving as you describe, and there is no way they are expected to move out of the way quickly. Now - if you are trolling slowly out in the broads and the Mt. Washington is bearing down on you - you might want to remember the "might makes right" rule and get out of the way.

This next comment does not apply to this situation, but is related. There are narrow places on the lake where boats can pass at speed, as long as there is no activity going on near the shoreline which changes the location of the 150 bubble - such as kayaks, fishing boats, swimmers, etc. When there is, the two passing boats must slow down - but of course, often don't. Those along the shoreline that are creating the hazard are fully in their rights to be there - but rules of courtesy suggests that they should be aware of the hazard they are creating - and its impact - and consider moving along - especially if the lake traffic is high.

Dave R · 08-20-2007, 08:10 AM

Since the other vessel was indeed the stand-on vessel, that vessel was required to maintain course and speed (conditions permitting). Since it was approaching shore, we all know that mainatining speed was not possible. That fact makes it very difficult for RG to determine if he was actually on a collision course or not.

That said, the proper thing to do in this situation is to turn hard to starboard and aim directly at the stand-on boat, then maintain that course until the stand-on boat has passed the "150 foot from you" mark. This gives the stand-on boat a strong visual clue that you see them, are giving way, and intend to pass behind them at more than 150 feet. It also puts you on a good heading to hit their wake.

Irrigation Guy · 08-20-2007, 08:48 AM

Having taken the CG Aux course many years ago and being a former ocean boater, I am very aware of the "rules of the road". That being said, I know that the other vessel was the "stand on" vessel. What this reminds me of is a crossing situation I have routinely encountered in the past where a sailboat is involved. This is because RG's boat was traveling at headway speed, a speed similar to that traveled by a sailboat.

All rules aside, the other vessel could easily have chosen to pass behind your stern and the problem is solved. Its a case of common courtesy, and the other vessel chose to stick to the "i have the right of way" attitude.

Another similarity comes to mind when driving in a car. If we are driving along at the speed limit or below in traffic, we don't have to stop or slow to let someone on a side street pull out into traffic because we have the right of way. It is however common courtesy, to do just that, especially if we notice they are having a difficult time doing so. RG's boat could have taken evasive action to stick to the rules even though it would have been difficult and the other vessel had broken one rule already. The courteous thing to do would have been to let RG's boat continue on their way and go behind their stern thus leaving little or no wake to contend with for either vessel, and it could have easily been done. Very few operators of boats these days take into account their wake and what impact on another vessel it will have. If I have the option I will always go behind a boat traveling at headway speed, whether its a fishing boat, sailboat, or just a powerboat enjoy a slow cruise, it's just the right thing to do.

Reminds me of the old and quickly forgotten saying in Mass, "A little courtesy won't kill you".

robmac · 08-20-2007, 09:10 AM

I have always given way to other vessels because who knows at that point weather they actually know the rules. I don't believe RG was at fault in this situation

Rattlesnake Gal · 08-20-2007, 09:34 AM

When I first spotted her boat heading our way, my thought was she was heading toward the island to get shelter from the wind and waves as many boaters do on choppy, windy days like yesterday. When her intentions became apparent we had little time, if at all, to do anything as she was heading toward us so fast. We were traveling at headway speed on a leisurely cruise enjoying the sights of Rattlesnake Island and that was certainly obvious from her vantage point.

As you might imagine, over the years we have yielded to countless boats as we were trying to get to our dock, never once giving thought to the fact that we were the stand-on boat. We call it common courtesy.

My snapping pictures definitely fueled this situation and given the same scenario, I would take them again. I’m not sure that I would put both arms in the air and call that they were within 150’ of us though. I hope that point would be obvious.

Lakegeezer · 08-20-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmac

I have always given way to other vessels because who knows at that point weather they actually know the rules. I don't believe RG was at fault in this situation

This can be confusing to the stand-off boat who is paying attention and obeying the rules of the seas. Once a stand-off boat realizes its situation, it should set a new intercept course to miss the stand-on boat by at least 150 feet. Anyone who has played video games since the days of pong can do this. The stand-off boat can and should make their intentions more clear by over-correcting and then fine-tuning the course. If the stand-on boat changes course, then the stand-off boat has to recalculate the intercept course. The best course of action if you are the stand-on boat is to maintain course, and take evasive action when (based on distance and speed) it becomes clear that the 150 bubble will be broken. Stand-on boats that start evasive action with 1/4 mile or so separation are just adding to the confusion. There are exceptions to this. If the stand-on boat is forcing a drastic change in course to the stand-off boat, such as into traffic or against the rocks, the stand-on boat may choose to yield way so that the stand-on boat may pass more comfortably.

It all comes down to understanding the situation, being considerate and trusting the other captain. On a lake that is mostly recreational boaters, all three aspects are sometimes lacking. I find though that if I trust the other boater to do the right thing - they usually do - and while I still have to make too many last minute course corrections, there is always time to avoid a collision.

08-20-2007, 02:39 AM	#1
andyporter Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bear Island Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Did you feel Danger for your life? Are you sure that was her dock? Or was she dropping someone off? I think by telling her you were filming or taking pictures or whatever you fueled the situation. Now maybe I'm wrong I wasn't there. All I'm saying is no one likes a snitch! Was she coming after you or just showing off. Man if I had I dollar for all the jerks that almost hit me over the years I could buy you property! HA HA!!! And is there a forum where I can bitch about every MASSHOLE car driver that cuts me off? Just sayin' boat safely and love the lake!

08-20-2007, 06:46 AM	#2
Lakegeezer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 1,683 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 356 Thanked 641 Times in 292 Posts	slow is what it is Since you were going slow, you could only have altered course to a small degree. I've never heard anything about requiring the stand-off boat to change speed - just direction. No matter what direction you moved in, your movement would not have significantly altered the passage distance between you. All stand-off means (to me at least) is that you are responsible to alter course so that there is at least 150 feet on passage. There are often fishing boats near the shore (or even in traffic lanes such as the graveyard) moving as you describe, and there is no way they are expected to move out of the way quickly. Now - if you are trolling slowly out in the broads and the Mt. Washington is bearing down on you - you might want to remember the "might makes right" rule and get out of the way. This next comment does not apply to this situation, but is related. There are narrow places on the lake where boats can pass at speed, as long as there is no activity going on near the shoreline which changes the location of the 150 bubble - such as kayaks, fishing boats, swimmers, etc. When there is, the two passing boats must slow down - but of course, often don't. Those along the shoreline that are creating the hazard are fully in their rights to be there - but rules of courtesy suggests that they should be aware of the hazard they are creating - and its impact - and consider moving along - especially if the lake traffic is high. __________________ -lg

08-20-2007, 09:34 AM	#6
Rattlesnake Gal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Central NH Posts: 5,253 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,455 Thanked 1,357 Times in 476 Posts	Common Courtesy When I first spotted her boat heading our way, my thought was she was heading toward the island to get shelter from the wind and waves as many boaters do on choppy, windy days like yesterday. When her intentions became apparent we had little time, if at all, to do anything as she was heading toward us so fast. We were traveling at headway speed on a leisurely cruise enjoying the sights of Rattlesnake Island and that was certainly obvious from her vantage point. As you might imagine, over the years we have yielded to countless boats as we were trying to get to our dock, never once giving thought to the fact that we were the stand-on boat. We call it common courtesy. My snapping pictures definitely fueled this situation and given the same scenario, I would take them again. I’m not sure that I would put both arms in the air and call that they were within 150’ of us though. I hope that point would be obvious.

08-20-2007, 08:10 AM	#3
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,985 Thanks: 246 Thanked 744 Times in 444 Posts	Since the other vessel was indeed the stand-on vessel, that vessel was required to maintain course and speed (conditions permitting). Since it was approaching shore, we all know that mainatining speed was not possible. That fact makes it very difficult for RG to determine if he was actually on a collision course or not. That said, the proper thing to do in this situation is to turn hard to starboard and aim directly at the stand-on boat, then maintain that course until the stand-on boat has passed the "150 foot from you" mark. This gives the stand-on boat a strong visual clue that you see them, are giving way, and intend to pass behind them at more than 150 feet. It also puts you on a good heading to hit their wake.

08-20-2007, 08:48 AM	#4
Irrigation Guy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 484 Thanks: 89 Thanked 138 Times in 72 Posts	Having taken the CG Aux course many years ago and being a former ocean boater, I am very aware of the "rules of the road". That being said, I know that the other vessel was the "stand on" vessel. What this reminds me of is a crossing situation I have routinely encountered in the past where a sailboat is involved. This is because RG's boat was traveling at headway speed, a speed similar to that traveled by a sailboat. All rules aside, the other vessel could easily have chosen to pass behind your stern and the problem is solved. Its a case of common courtesy, and the other vessel chose to stick to the "i have the right of way" attitude. Another similarity comes to mind when driving in a car. If we are driving along at the speed limit or below in traffic, we don't have to stop or slow to let someone on a side street pull out into traffic because we have the right of way. It is however common courtesy, to do just that, especially if we notice they are having a difficult time doing so. RG's boat could have taken evasive action to stick to the rules even though it would have been difficult and the other vessel had broken one rule already. The courteous thing to do would have been to let RG's boat continue on their way and go behind their stern thus leaving little or no wake to contend with for either vessel, and it could have easily been done. Very few operators of boats these days take into account their wake and what impact on another vessel it will have. If I have the option I will always go behind a boat traveling at headway speed, whether its a fishing boat, sailboat, or just a powerboat enjoy a slow cruise, it's just the right thing to do. Reminds me of the old and quickly forgotten saying in Mass, "A little courtesy won't kill you".

08-20-2007, 09:10 AM	#5
robmac Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Nashua,Meredith Posts: 951 Thanks: 213 Thanked 106 Times in 81 Posts	I have always given way to other vessels because who knows at that point weather they actually know the rules. I don't believe RG was at fault in this situation