Stand on Boat Question

Weekend Pundit · 08-28-2007, 01:53 PM

I have to agree with Jeffk.

Right of way was less the issue than the 150' rule.

And, like many others, I will try to steer clear of slower moving or stopped vessels regardless whether I am the stand on vessel or not. If I can't maintain 150' feet of clearance I drop down to headway until I can get clear. After all, it's not like I'm in a hurry to get anywhere when I'm on the lake. Kinda defeats the purpose of being out there in the first place, doesn't it?

Coastal Laker · 08-28-2007, 03:00 PM

This link is one of my favorite for explaining right of way to people (note that the NH rule book makes mention of "right of way" though there is truly no such thing when each boat has a duty):
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/Arcs.htm

If a boat is approaching you in your "green" zone, then you are the give way vessel because the other boat has the green light to go (and therefore it must maintain course and speed).

Likewise, if a boat is in your "red" zone, it has the red light and must give way to you. You are then the stand-on boat and must maintain course and speed.

If a boat is approaching you from the remaining arc (encompasing the stern light in the diagram), then you are being overtaken. In an overtaking situation, the boat being passed must maintain course and speed (stand-on); the boat doing the overtaking must give way.

Hope that helps.

JayDV · 08-28-2007, 10:16 PM

I learned to do what the oncoming boat's light told me. If I saw the green light, that meant I GO. If a red light, well, then STOP. If both red and green, then I was being approached head-on so slow down and proceed with caution. I would try to pass starboard to starboard to starboard. This would give both helmsmen the GREEN light. I found it confusing to try to figure out if the oncoming craft was in MY green zone that means slow down because they have right of way, etc.

Is this over simplified? And potentially a dangerous assumption?

Kamper · 08-29-2007, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayDV

... I would try to pass starboard to starboard to starboard. This would give both helmsmen the GREEN light. ...

The standard for passing on-coming traffic is Port-to-Port. Green-to-Green means neither vessell has primary responsibility for avoiding and accident. Red-to-Red means they are both responsible.

I know it's actually just semantics but that's the mnemonic that I was taught. Additionaly, when you are in a channel you are expected to stay to the right. Your action would require crossing a channel and possibly going too far to the edge for your own safety.

Of course, in open waters nobody should force a meneuver to pass to either side if there is ample clearance to avoid an accident no matter what their relative headings. After all, R-O-R only really applies between vessels only when the possibility of a collision exists or may arise.

Good luck!

SIKSUKR · 08-29-2007, 08:36 AM

I'm with Kamper on passing port to port.If it was the opposite,then everyone is on the wrong side in the Weirs channel.

JayDV · 08-29-2007, 08:29 PM

I forgot about the channel logic. I always passed port to port in a channel, but also at headway speeds so not a big problem. But I'll keep the red to red in open waters and be responsible. Thanks

Irrigation Guy · 09-02-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayDV

I learned to do what the oncoming boat's light told me. If I saw the green light, that meant I GO. If a red light, well, then STOP. If both red and green, then I was being approached head-on so slow down and proceed with caution. I would try to pass starboard to starboard to starboard. This would give both helmsmen the GREEN light. I found it confusing to try to figure out if the oncoming craft was in MY green zone that means slow down because they have right of way, etc.

Is this over simplified? And potentially a dangerous assumption?

I Agree except its Port to Port when approaching head-on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I'm with Kamper on passing port to port.If it was the opposite,then everyone is on the wrong side in the Weirs channel.

Me Too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamper

That's a lot like saying a driver coming to a green light should stop and let the other car go through the intersection because theymight have been planning on jumping the light.

Safety on the water is enhanced when eveybody uses the same rules. The skipper you wave past on your boat may be happy with you but the one behind you may have been planning their next move on your correct response as the stand-on vessel. Unexpectedly backing down could lead to confusion among the other boaters around you and someone else could be in jeopardy.

You should learn the Rules and get your Safety Certficate if you have not already done so. Always try to be alert for those who arent following the Rules but dont assume that everybody else is going to be ignorant.

Good luck!

Good advice, as Stand-on is a rule too, and doing something else would make you at least partially liable in the case of a collision.

jrc · 08-28-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weekend Pundit

I have to agree with Jeffk.

Right of way was less the issue than the 150' rule...

I'm not so sure that one rule overrides another, I still think you must follow both rules. I hate automobile analogies but I'm going to use one.

If you come to a yield sign indicating the car on the other road has the right of way, can you ignore it if the car is speeding?

dpg · 08-30-2007, 06:59 AM

Jesus, who the heck can follow or remember all these specific rules? Personally I could see how they would not like the camera pointed at them. I do have my certificate but must admit I do not have every boating rule there is on the lake committed to memory. After all my brain is only so small.

Bear'ings · 08-30-2007, 05:40 PM

This is a great discussion and very informative on right of way, etc. However, this situation, in my opinion, is not about right of way. It's about being courteous on the lake and using common sense. The approaching boat should have passed behind RG & waved wishing him a nice afternoon! I love the limerick earlier. It sums it all up.

Rattlesnake Guy · 08-30-2007, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpg

Jesus, who the heck can follow or remember all these specific rules? Personally I could see how they would not like the camera pointed at them. I do have my certificate but must admit I do not have every boating rule there is on the lake committed to memory. After all my brain is only so small.

If you remember 2 you should do fairly well.

1)Yield to boats that are between 12 and 4.(and others that ignore rule 1 and 2)

2)Stay 150 feet away for everyone, even if they ignore rule 1 and 2.

Winnipesaukee · 09-02-2007, 05:48 PM

I've got better advice: if you are on Lake Winnipesaukee (or any lake in Massachusetts), especially on the weekend, then YOU ARE THE GIVE-WAY BOAT.

Kamper · 09-02-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee

I've got better advice: (no matter what) YOU ARE THE GIVE-WAY BOAT.

That's a lot like saying a driver coming to a green light should stop and let the other car go through the intersection because theymight have been planning on jumping the light.

Safety on the water is enhanced when eveybody uses the same rules. The skipper you wave past on your boat may be happy with you but the one behind you may have been planning their next move on your correct response as the stand-on vessel. Unexpectedly backing down could lead to confusion among the other boaters around you and someone else could be in jeopardy.

You should learn the Rules and get your Safety Certficate if you have not already done so. Always try to be alert for those who arent following the Rules but dont assume that everybody else is going to be ignorant.

Good luck!

Winnipesaukee · 09-02-2007, 10:27 PM

Absolutely. I have a few boating certificates (CG, US Sailing) and know all of the "rules of the road;' however, it seems when boating on the above lakes, no matter if you are the stand-on boat or not, you have to give way to the other guy who won't.

It's an anarchy.

Just Sold · 09-03-2007, 08:27 AM

I was on the lake for a short time yesterday and on 2 occassions "Captain Bonehead" appeared. I was clearly the "Stand On" boat on both occasions and I had to back down as "Captain Bonehead" ignored the right of my boat to continue on course. Both drivers never even looked my way.

I will say I saw a lot more boaters observing the 150' rule than ever before. Yes, a few did not observe the rule but the vast majority did and did so well in advance of our passing. Outside the Gilford docks the 150' rule appeared to be observed very well with all of boats in the area waiting to increasse speed until they were well away from all the other traffic. I did see one incident that I thought to be unsafe as a boat slowly crossed the bow of a sail boat at a distance slightly outside the 150' rule but too close for me. The sail boat was the stand on boat even if it had been a power boat.

A curious thing though was I never once saw a Marine Patrol Boat in 2.5 hours on the lake. It is a busy weekend and the weather was excellent with lots of boat traffic.

randalnh · 09-03-2007, 09:01 AM

Yesterday, coming from the Gov. Island bridge heading towards Meredith and crossing the "highway" between Paugus bay and Eagle Island I had no less that 4 buttheads coming from Paugus fail to alter their course to allow me to pass as the "stand-on" boat As noted by Kamper, this caused as dangerous situation because several other boats behind me now had to stop or alter course to avoid me! Where were the MP's? Who knows. The area around Paugus Bay/Weirs beach was a complete zoo yesterday and not once did I see the MPs until I was having dinner on the Wiers Boulevard. Even then, it was one small baot and he did next to nothing. They complain about no funding, but if they were out in force citing all of these "captain boneheads", they could pay for the added officers and then some. Guess I will stick to boating during the week.

Irrigation Guy · 09-03-2007, 07:03 PM

I must say that I was happily surprised to see and hear them on several occasions Yesterday. First time was around noon as they had two Wave runner pulled over just off lil bear just outside the six markers. Second time, while anchored nearby the location mentioned above, I heard and saw them chase down a loudish go fast type boat. I must say I was happy to see them out there enforcing the rules in this busy area.

They can't be everywhere, but it was nice to see them in such a busy area besides the usual locations.

Pineedles · 09-08-2007, 04:05 PM

Now, am I the stand on boat, ahhh I mean tube? Whatever, that guy better not puncture my tube. Heck, I don't even have a paddle!

Mee-n-Mac · 09-08-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Now, am I the stand on boat, ahhh I mean tube? Whatever, that guy better not puncture my tube. Heck, I don't even have a paddle!

Good question ! Gives one paws to think.

Ropetow · 09-08-2007, 10:50 PM

Glad the MPs weren't around. I don't see a PFD or other required safety equipment anywhere. Would a loud 'woofer' be an acceptable alternative to a horn or whistle? Maybe in the dog-days of August, but today?

ApS · 09-03-2007, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee

I've got better advice: if you are on Lake Winnipesaukee (or any lake in Massachusetts), especially on the weekend, then YOU ARE THE GIVE-WAY BOAT.

My brother-in-law (NT, a member here) made the mistake of arriving at the lake several days later than expected—which meant arriving on Labor Day Weekend.

He's a history buff and when he arrived at the porch and looked out over the mayhem he pronounced, "It's the Normandy Invasion"!

It did quiet down as the afternoon progressed, but I hadn't looked at it from a historical perspective before.

Rattlesnake Guy · 09-09-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee

I've got better advice: if you are on Lake Winnipesaukee (or any lake in Massachusetts), especially on the weekend, then YOU ARE THE GIVE-WAY BOAT.

Since you made this post, every time I go by an exit ramp on the highway or a rotary I say to myself, I bet that Winnipesaukee would stop here even though he has the right of way. I think that it is much safer to yield when you are supposed to and stand on when it is appropriate. If everyone yields and tries to go behind the other boat, it translates into a head on collision. When I am the give way boat I want to stay at speed and simply turn behind you. If you turn or slow, I have to stop as I can not predict what the heck you are up to.

If I don't yield then by all means do what you have to do. I am hoping that is what you mean in your later post.

08-28-2007, 01:53 PM	#1
Weekend Pundit Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 347 Thanks: 26 Thanked 69 Times in 42 Posts	150-foot rule overrides right-of-way this time I have to agree with Jeffk. Right of way was less the issue than the 150' rule. And, like many others, I will try to steer clear of slower moving or stopped vessels regardless whether I am the stand on vessel or not. If I can't maintain 150' feet of clearance I drop down to headway until I can get clear. After all, it's not like I'm in a hurry to get anywhere when I'm on the lake. Kinda defeats the purpose of being out there in the first place, doesn't it?

08-28-2007, 03:00 PM	#2
Coastal Laker Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: In the Beautiful Lakes Region of course! Posts: 130 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	On the topic of Right of Way... This link is one of my favorite for explaining right of way to people (note that the NH rule book makes mention of "right of way" though there is truly no such thing when each boat has a duty): http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/Arcs.htm If a boat is approaching you in your "green" zone, then you are the give way vessel because the other boat has the green light to go (and therefore it must maintain course and speed). Likewise, if a boat is in your "red" zone, it has the red light and must give way to you. You are then the stand-on boat and must maintain course and speed. If a boat is approaching you from the remaining arc (encompasing the stern light in the diagram), then you are being overtaken. In an overtaking situation, the boat being passed must maintain course and speed (stand-on); the boat doing the overtaking must give way. Hope that helps.

08-28-2007, 10:16 PM	#3
JayDV Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fairfield, CT & island vacation Posts: 97 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Treat them like a stop light I learned to do what the oncoming boat's light told me. If I saw the green light, that meant I GO. If a red light, well, then STOP. If both red and green, then I was being approached head-on so slow down and proceed with caution. I would try to pass starboard to starboard to starboard. This would give both helmsmen the GREEN light. I found it confusing to try to figure out if the oncoming craft was in MY green zone that means slow down because they have right of way, etc. Is this over simplified? And potentially a dangerous assumption?

08-29-2007, 08:36 AM	#5
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	I'm with Kamper on passing port to port.If it was the opposite,then everyone is on the wrong side in the Weirs channel. __________________ SIKSUKR Last edited by SIKSUKR; 08-29-2007 at 09:18 AM.

08-30-2007, 05:40 PM	#10
Bear'ings Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bear Island Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Common Courtesy This is a great discussion and very informative on right of way, etc. However, this situation, in my opinion, is not about right of way. It's about being courteous on the lake and using common sense. The approaching boat should have passed behind RG & waved wishing him a nice afternoon! I love the limerick earlier. It sums it all up.

08-29-2007, 08:29 PM	#6
JayDV Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fairfield, CT & island vacation Posts: 97 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I forgot about the channel logic. I always passed port to port in a channel, but also at headway speeds so not a big problem. But I'll keep the red to red in open waters and be responsible. Thanks

08-30-2007, 06:59 AM	#9
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,604 Thanks: 155 Thanked 231 Times in 168 Posts	Jesus, who the heck can follow or remember all these specific rules? Personally I could see how they would not like the camera pointed at them. I do have my certificate but must admit I do not have every boating rule there is on the lake committed to memory. After all my brain is only so small.

09-02-2007, 05:48 PM	#12
Winnipesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 233 Thanks: 14 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	I've got better advice: if you are on Lake Winnipesaukee (or any lake in Massachusetts), especially on the weekend, then YOU ARE THE GIVE-WAY BOAT. __________________ Sail fast, live slow!

09-02-2007, 10:27 PM	#14
Winnipesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 233 Thanks: 14 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	Absolutely. I have a few boating certificates (CG, US Sailing) and know all of the "rules of the road;' however, it seems when boating on the above lakes, no matter if you are the stand-on boat or not, you have to give way to the other guy who won't. It's an anarchy. __________________ Sail fast, live slow!

09-03-2007, 08:27 AM	#15
Just Sold Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Suncook, NH, but at The Lake at Heart Posts: 2,615 Thanks: 1,083 Thanked 434 Times in 210 Posts	Stand On and the 150' rule I was on the lake for a short time yesterday and on 2 occassions "Captain Bonehead" appeared. I was clearly the "Stand On" boat on both occasions and I had to back down as "Captain Bonehead" ignored the right of my boat to continue on course. Both drivers never even looked my way. I will say I saw a lot more boaters observing the 150' rule than ever before. Yes, a few did not observe the rule but the vast majority did and did so well in advance of our passing. Outside the Gilford docks the 150' rule appeared to be observed very well with all of boats in the area waiting to increasse speed until they were well away from all the other traffic. I did see one incident that I thought to be unsafe as a boat slowly crossed the bow of a sail boat at a distance slightly outside the 150' rule but too close for me. The sail boat was the stand on boat even if it had been a power boat. A curious thing though was I never once saw a Marine Patrol Boat in 2.5 hours on the lake. It is a busy weekend and the weather was excellent with lots of boat traffic. __________________ Just Sold At the lake the stress of daily life just melts away. Pro Re Nata

09-03-2007, 09:01 AM	#16
randalnh Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 50 Thanks: 1 Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts	Where are the MP's? Yesterday, coming from the Gov. Island bridge heading towards Meredith and crossing the "highway" between Paugus bay and Eagle Island I had no less that 4 buttheads coming from Paugus fail to alter their course to allow me to pass as the "stand-on" boat As noted by Kamper, this caused as dangerous situation because several other boats behind me now had to stop or alter course to avoid me! Where were the MP's? Who knows. The area around Paugus Bay/Weirs beach was a complete zoo yesterday and not once did I see the MPs until I was having dinner on the Wiers Boulevard. Even then, it was one small baot and he did next to nothing. They complain about no funding, but if they were out in force citing all of these "captain boneheads", they could pay for the added officers and then some. Guess I will stick to boating during the week.

09-03-2007, 07:03 PM	#17
Irrigation Guy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 484 Thanks: 89 Thanked 138 Times in 72 Posts	Giving Credit to MP I must say that I was happily surprised to see and hear them on several occasions Yesterday. First time was around noon as they had two Wave runner pulled over just off lil bear just outside the six markers. Second time, while anchored nearby the location mentioned above, I heard and saw them chase down a loudish go fast type boat. I must say I was happy to see them out there enforcing the rules in this busy area. They can't be everywhere, but it was nice to see them in such a busy area besides the usual locations.

09-08-2007, 04:05 PM	#18
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,548 Thanks: 1,073 Thanked 669 Times in 368 Posts	Stand on Boat? Now, am I the stand on boat, ahhh I mean tube? Whatever, that guy better not puncture my tube. Heck, I don't even have a paddle! Attached Images

09-08-2007, 10:50 PM	#20
Ropetow Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Rochester, NH / Bartlett, NH Posts: 322 Thanks: 228 Thanked 33 Times in 13 Posts	Glad the MPs weren't around. I don't see a PFD or other required safety equipment anywhere. Would a loud 'woofer' be an acceptable alternative to a horn or whistle? Maybe in the dog-days of August, but today?