Impression of Lakes Region Dealers

MAXUM · 09-04-2007, 09:22 PM

Well coolbreeze, I get the impression that a buyer like me is the exception not the norm which explains how these dealers get away with it. At the same time it just amazes me how many buyers there must be that are willing to drop big bucks without thinking twice about the price they should be paying or knowing much about what they are getting into. They make easy prey and are easily taken advantage of. All I can do is re-iterate what you said, do your homework before engaging in a deal discussion. Failure to do so could cost you a significant amount of money or land you in a boat that could be hiding significant problems.

brk-lnt · 09-04-2007, 10:16 PM

I recently bought a new-to-me boat, a 2000 Maxum 2300 SCR. My wife and I were definitely "informed" buyers, coming armed with notes, other listings, prices, etc.

We ended up buying ours from Silver Sands Marina, but were also very impressed with Shep Brown's as well. Channel Marine folks seemed friendly and helpful as well. Overall I'd say we had a good experience, and didn't get any salespeople trying to be deceptive or misleading. That might've been because they new better, or maybe we just dealt with different people/places than you did.

I will say that Fay's was useless, we came to look at 2 specific boats, one I was pretty interested in. The sales guy on duty left for lunch about 10 minutes after we got there, and then never called me in response to the message I left with the sales admin or whoever she was that I was very interested in one of their boats. Trexlers was also less than impressive to us.

Resident 2B · 09-04-2007, 11:10 PM

I have done business with the good folks at Melvin Village Marina and I was very happy with every aspect of the boat buying experience.

Three boating seasons ago, I ended up buying a new boat, but I looked hard at used boats as well. I was very impressed with everyone I met at MVM. Customer service was clearly on the top of their prioity list.

Even though I live close to Weirs Beach, I continue to be very happy with MVM. I am now looking at moving up in boat size, from 24' to 28' due to the chop in the Weirs area, and it is coming down to MVM and Lakeport Landing Marina. Both seem great to deal with from my perspective.

R2B

LIforrelaxin · 09-04-2007, 11:11 PM

I have dealt with all the Big Marinas on the lake at on point or another for either parts and service, or looking at boats. What I can say is this, it depends on the day and the person you get. I have had good and bad experiences at all the Marinas in this thread. My biggest suggestion to anyone looking at boats is to try and go around on a weekday, the weekends are so hectic that you generally are disappionted. When I was looking 2 years ago I was talking to Marinas Mon.-thurs. setting up test rides for early in the day friday.... It always worked well....It did mean taking a day of from work but hey I was on the water.....

Dave R · 09-05-2007, 07:00 AM

Maxum, I so feel your pain. I had to go to Indiana to get my boat. I found it on the net at a Sea Ray Dealer (it's a Regal they had taken in trade) and bought it in early 2005. I had a fantastic experience with the dealer there and still keep in touch with the salesman via email. The salesman actually underrated the condition of the boat in our and worked out a deal via the first couple of emails we traded that was well under NADA book value. He brought in a master Mercruiser mechanic to be at my disposal for a full Saturday in January when I flew out to inspect the boat and stored the boat indoors for me from the time I bought it in January until I picked it up in May. He even provided indoor space for me to do the paperwork and trailer setup for the sale of my old boat to a guy from Chicago who met me in Indy. I'm nearly doen with my third season on this boat and just love it.

What did you buy?

SAMIAM · 09-05-2007, 10:36 AM

You describe yourself as a "good,down to earth,honest guy" and I'm sure that is true but I do not agree that every dealer in the lakes region is as dishonest as those you discribe.There are many marine dealers who have been in business for decades and would NEVER do some of the things that you related. I have a sneaky feeling that you are one of those "customers from hell" that is never happy unless you get what you want for next to nothing......but,of course, your trade is always worth top dollar.
Tell me......how could any of these business' survive.....some for 50 years....if they attempted to cheat and lie to every customer as you say they did to you?
Shep Browns,Irwins,Lakeport Landing,Channel Marine,Melvin Village and Trexlers,just to name a few, are some of the most respected business' on the lake.....and I don't think it's fair to paint them all with the same brush,since you didn't name the ones who you were unhappy with.
You may have had a bad experience but I will bet that if you polled the members of this site,that most would express loyalty and satisfaction with their dealer.

sky_nh · 09-05-2007, 10:46 AM

Yep, it always makes sense to blame the customer. Great marketing advice!

gravy boat · 09-05-2007, 11:47 AM

Maxum,

Sad, indeed. I think someone hit the nail on the head when he/she mentioned that knuckleheads come up here and throw money around without a care in the world, providing a very dishonest environment. Your experience sounds like one on a shady used car lot!

We recently purchased a 1995 Crownline locally -- Dave's Motorboat Shoppe -- and we had a great experience. Dave was and is honest, straight, will tell you the negatives and positives and let you decide. Because of this, we are giving him ALL of our aftermarket business --- all supplies and maintenance, including storage on-site.

I highly recommend Dave and Katie.

Gravy

4Fun · 09-05-2007, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

You describe yourself as a "good,down to earth,honest guy" and I'm sure that is true but I do not agree that every dealer in the lakes region is as dishonest as those you discribe.There are many marine dealers who have been in business for decades and would NEVER do some of the things that you related. I have a sneaky feeling that you are one of those "customers from hell" that is never happy unless you get what you want for next to nothing......but,of course, your trade is always worth top dollar.
Tell me......how could any of these business' survive.....some for 50 years....if they attempted to cheat and lie to every customer as you say they did to you?
Shep Browns,Irwins,Lakeport Landing,Channel Marine,Melvin Village and Trexlers,just to name a few, are some of the most respected business' on the lake.....and I don't think it's fair to paint them all with the same brush,since you didn't name the ones who you were unhappy with.
You may have had a bad experience but I will bet that if you polled the members of this site,that most would express loyalty and satisfaction with their dealer.

I agree most marinas probably have good intentions but the phrase" went thought he shop" is just a joke. Most have very good mechanics but also some pretty lazy ones too. They have been in business for 50 years because people just don't have the knowledge and time to repair the boats themselves. It's a captive market so they keep on selling.

Before I bought my boat I had a receipt in hand that the outdrive was "fully serviced" a $400 cost to the previous owner. That means new fluid and greased drive shaft. Well needless to say the engine was hanging from my garage a few months later while I changed the coupler. Culprit a coupler that had zero grease on it.

Buyer beware and check everyting yourself. I just do the maintanence myslef now. It's not worth being dissapointed by a dealer experience.

MAXUM · 09-05-2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Fun

I agree most marinas probably have good intentions but the phrase" went thought he shop" is just a joke. Most have very good mechanics but also some pretty lazy ones too. They have been in business for 50 years because people just don't have the knowledge and time to repair the boats themselves. It's a captive market so they keep on selling.

Before I bought my boat I had a receipt in hand that the outdrive was "fully serviced" a $400 cost to the previous owner. That means new fluid and greased drive shaft. Well needless to say the engine was hanging from my garage a few months later while I changed the coupler. Culprit a coupler that had zero grease on it.

Buyer beware and check everyting yourself. I just do the maintanence myslef now. It's not worth being dissapointed by a dealer experience.

For all those that don't know and this is a very good thing to point out, and a nice nugget of information that I picked up along the way. The sales and service departments of most dealerships are separate. That means if a boat comes in, most places WILL NOT send the boat through the shop because it is charged back to the sales department which cuts commissions and profit margins. Therefore they do as little as possible to flip a used boat.

jeffk · 09-06-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAXUM

For all those that don't know and this is a very good thing to point out, and a nice nugget of information that I picked up along the way. The sales and service departments of most dealerships are separate. That means if a boat comes in, most places WILL NOT send the boat through the shop because it is charged back to the sales department which cuts commissions and profit margins. Therefore they do as little as possible to flip a used boat.

Beyond basic clean up and repair of known problems I don't see a problem with this. If I were going to sell my car or my house I wouldn't pay to have a mechanic or a house inspector look for problems that I would then have to pay to fix. If I am already aware of a problem, fine. I can either fix the problem and try to pass along some of the cost or tell the buyer the problem exists and let them decide if they want to purchase and take care of the problem themselves.

Suppose, for example, that a dealership decides to go above and beyond and fully inspect and recondition a boat that comes in for sale. They spend $2000 on this. They then mark the price up $2000 over the book value of the boat and give you a 6 month warrenty. A "well informed" buyer comes in and says the book value is $2000 less. They say, "Yes, however we have fully reconditioned the boat and have given you a warrenty". The buyer may not value the dealers work and not want to pay the extra. Many buyers are very price sensitive. So the dealer may or may not be able to recoup the money they put into bringing the boat into top condition. Only a buyer can put value on reconditioning a boat. So the dealer learns to fix known problems, which is ethically correct, and not look for other issues.

If I am on the buying side I would pay an independent mechanic or home inspector to look over the car, boat, or house. I would then have an independent, expert opinion as to the condition of the item. Further, they could authenticate claims that maintenance had been done and if if appears to have been done correctly. It costs me a couple of houses of labor but I reap the benefits of exposing potential problems and piece of mind.

BroadHopper · 09-06-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffk

If I am on the buying side I would pay an independent mechanic or home inspector to look over the car, boat, or house. I would then have an independent, expert opinion as to the condition of the item. Further, they could authenticate claims that maintenance had been done and if if appears to have been done correctly. It costs me a couple of houses of labor but I reap the benefits of exposing potential problems and piece of mind.

Not sure if a home inspector will inspect boats. I would reccomend a qualified marine surveyer/mechanic. Most boat insurance companies, will reccomend a surveyer.

MAXUM · 09-05-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

You describe yourself as a "good,down to earth,honest guy" and I'm sure that is true but I do not agree that every dealer in the lakes region is as dishonest as those you discribe.There are many marine dealers who have been in business for decades and would NEVER do some of the things that you related. I have a sneaky feeling that you are one of those "customers from hell" that is never happy unless you get what you want for next to nothing......but,of course, your trade is always worth top dollar.
Tell me......how could any of these business' survive.....some for 50 years....if they attempted to cheat and lie to every customer as you say they did to you?
Shep Browns,Irwins,Lakeport Landing,Channel Marine,Melvin Village and Trexlers,just to name a few, are some of the most respected business' on the lake.....and I don't think it's fair to paint them all with the same brush,since you didn't name the ones who you were unhappy with.
You may have had a bad experience but I will bet that if you polled the members of this site,that most would express loyalty and satisfaction with their dealer.

Samiam - Hmm hit a nerve have I? You almost sound like a guilty salesman, but I'll defer on speculation. Could I mention the dealers? Why bother you really think they are going to change? Also I don't find it prudent to mention places by name when speaking ill of them in print. Ask me on the street, well that's an entirely different story. Two of the worst I dealt with are in the list you provided above and have been in business for "decades" and would "never" treat a customer like I suggested? Don't be foolish, they do this because they can get away with it that's why. Unless you as a customer are savvy enough to really pay attention to what the sales guy is saying can you begin to pick up on how the story and information can change drastically in a very short period of time. Actually, and this is almost not fair, but just to test how honest a sales guy is the first thing I'll do is ask him/her something that I know they won't know. Usually mechanical questions get the best baloney answer, and wait to hear their response. That way right off the bat I can gauge their honesty. That's why sales guys don't like me because I know more about what I'm looking at than they do. I have more respect for somebody who says I don't know than a fast slick answer.

If I polled the users on this site on their satisfaction it would only be fair to first establish how educated they really are first about what the dealer is doing for them so that they really know they are getting what they paid for. Greeting somebody with a smile, a special parking spot, and a free trinket or two and making you "feel good" does not mean the dealer is either reliable or honest. But to some that is enough to make them happy. For me the more of that I see the more suspicious I get. No offense to anyone reading this... if you can afford to not care.

If you would consider a guy like me a customer from hell, fine, but I deal in facts and play chicken very well. I listen intently at what I'm told and look for inconsistencies which may indicate somebody is not being truthful. Fact is I wanted a cash deal meaning there was no place to hide things under the veil of a monthly payment which made some places clearly uncomfortable. I DID pay all the money for what I ended up with. I never suggested I was trying to get something for nothing, I'm not that foolish. I also did not work my old boat into the deal, that complicates the numbers, plus I wanted to sell it myself anyways. However to call one sales guy's bluff on "we don't use the book here", I opted to corner him by suggesting I wanted to trade in my current boat, to which out of his drawer comes the very book he said "we don't use here".

It also doesn't take much to figure out that price is derived from condition therefore if I see a boat that has a price tag of 20K and the high retail book value is 20K then that boat had better be good as new both cosmetically and mechanically as described in the book. Is that so much to ask for? I don't think so. If it's more than book and the dealer's attitude is "I'll get that much for it, I just have to wait for the right person to come through the door" (yes I actually was told that) welp I rest my case. At that point it comes down to how bad you want it.

It's very easy to deceive a customer when they don't know any better and yet make them feel darn good about it at the same time.

AC2717 · 09-05-2007, 07:10 AM

Thank you for the heads up MAxum., BUt to be honest I have to disagree and cannot completely put every marina in the area in the same bag. When I purchased my boat last September, it was used. I shopped around and after being disappointed like you at several of the area marinas, I walked into to Thurston's. Soup to nuts hands down they treated me like I was buying a $150,000 boat not just a $8,000 used old boat. I too did my homework and they were able to answer every question truthfully and what I felt was honestly. Everyone in that place is amazing. It might have helped that the one I purchased was bought serviced and stored there since new. I have had no problems with my boat, knock on wood. Mary in Service is great, Jeff in the sales office is very honest and everyone else I speak to is customer service oriented. I go in there from time to time just to putt around or to buy something and they also come over ask how the family is doing, how the boat is running and they know which boat is mine, and they do not ever try to sell me something and are always willing to give out advice and information.

On the other side there are others in the area that I would never step foot on their property if you paid me. I am not up for bashing them today though.

SAMIAM · 09-06-2007, 07:46 AM

No......It can't be true......AC2717 is telling us there is an honest marine dealer? Clearly he was deceived. Just teasing,Maxum.
Actually I use the same tactics when shopping for vehicles and all of the advice that you offered is very good for anyone shopping for a boat.
Where I disagree with you is on your condemnation of all marine dealers in the lakes region.I know many of them and know they wouldn't allow sales people to do the things you described.
As for being a "guilty salesman"............no,sorry,I'm a guilty restauratuer,but I'm not telling you where.I can only imagine what you'd put waitstaff through.
I can hear you now....."$18.95 for a steak?....I don't think so...I'll give you $14 bucks and not a penny more." "Is it really choice or is it select and you're lying to me....was it fed on grain or grass? Is your scale calibrated? how do I know its really 16 ounces?.....etc etc

SIKSUKR · 09-06-2007, 08:27 AM

Pretty funny!

4Fun · 09-06-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

No......It can't be true......AC2717 is telling us there is an honest marine dealer? Clearly he was deceived. Just teasing,Maxum.
Actually I use the same tactics when shopping for vehicles and all of the advice that you offered is very good for anyone shopping for a boat.
Where I disagree with you is on your condemnation of all marine dealers in the lakes region.I know many of them and know they wouldn't allow sales people to do the things you described.
As for being a "guilty salesman"............no,sorry,I'm a guilty restauratuer,but I'm not telling you where.I can only imagine what you'd put waitstaff through.
I can hear you now....."$18.95 for a steak?....I don't think so...I'll give you $14 bucks and not a penny more." "Is it really choice or is it select and you're lying to me....was it fed on grain or grass? Is your scale calibrated? how do I know its really 16 ounces?.....etc etc

I have no problem paying $18.95 for a steak or a $25 for that matter. Just don't charge me $18.95 for a $14.00 steak while telling me it's the best around.

brk-lnt · 09-06-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Fun

I have no problem paying $18.95 for a steak or a $25 for that matter. Just don't charge me $18.95 for a $14.00 steak while telling me it's the best around.

But what if it comes with a free dessert?

4Fun · 09-06-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

But what if it comes with a free dessert?

Nothing is free....

MAXUM · 09-06-2007, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Fun

I have no problem paying $18.95 for a steak or a $25 for that matter. Just don't charge me $18.95 for a $14.00 steak while telling me it's the best around.

Touche! 4FUN

Look I'm sure that with my luck I managed to get some of the worst sales men and that's why I do give the dealers I spoke to the benefit of the doubt and therefore will not reveal thier identity. As I said, I'm a fair guy and am not about to drag anyone through the mud, but the fact that the salesman provides a public front to the dealer, I would think that the dealers would be more careful in choosing the personel they hire to represent them. Just be very careful out there when shopping. Do your homework first and foremost. Finally if you have no idea what you're looking at from a mechanical and structural perspective don't rely on the dealer to say the boat is OK because chances are they haven't looked at it either. I just felt compelled to write this post because my overall impression was pretty darn poor and as expensive as boats are to buy and fix I figured a little advice could go a long way. Big dealer or not, at the end of the day the only one looking out for your best interest is you!

Hey Samiam - I'd love to swing by your resturant and BTW - I even tip well! My only disclaimer is that I do know the difference between hamburger and prime rib

Nauset · 09-06-2007, 11:30 AM

We purchased a 6 year old brokerage boat from Silver Sands Marina last year. The whole experience was very positive with no pressure or BS. We looked the boat over on two separate occasions and asked lots of questions. They contacted the owner on our request and got copies of all the maintenance records for us to keep. Even though they where just the broker we were treated as if we were buying a new one out of their inventory. We worked with Barry there and he returned every phone call and answered every email. The other staff there was helpful and friendly as well providing assistance with paperwork, registration and insurance. Aaron patiently facilitated the test drive and also took us out for another shake down on the day of delivery to get us familiar with all the boat's systems per the company policy. We even had a problem with our dock on the day we picked up the boat and we called Barry and asked if we could keep the boat there for the week while work was done to the dock. We brought the boat back and they put it in the racks for the week and did not charge us a dime for storage or launching. They even presented us with four caps the day we picked up the boat. We have had the boat for a year now with no problems and had many enjoyable weekends on it.

JayDV · 09-06-2007, 01:39 PM

More and more telephone customer services are using the "this call will/may be recorded and used for training purposes". Although I am not sure how much they do get used, the idea is pretty good and would help to keep agents and representatives of the business on their toes and maybe a little more straight forward.

For fun, I make it a point of referring to the recording as in:
"Perhaps you didn't fully understand me, please pay close attention to my words when you replay this call, thank you very much."

hazelnut · 09-06-2007, 04:00 PM

Maxum I was originally at odds with your first post. However, you mentioned that it was the salespeople you dealt with specifically. That is a shame because I am sure there are probably Marina owners out there that would give you a fair deal.
You are correct to mention that the salespeople are the face of the dealership. I guess that might suggest that the Boat Salespeople in the Lakes Region aren't up to par.
You also mentioned that you were buying used. That is a whole different ball game in my opinion vs buying new. The information on New Boat pricing is much more widely available and it is pretty easy to compare national pricing to what you are getting. The wildcard with the used boat is the condition. Remember what you are asking here.... A sales guy who is trained on all his new models has to shift gears into a used boat guy. I'm not defending their actions just asking you to look at it from their perspective. For example if I sold Brand New Lincolns and you came in looking at an older model maybe a different brand armed with tons of knowledge and started testing me I would go into defensive mode.
One more question. Did you go in with a positive attitude or were you armed for battle before the salesperson had a fighting chance. I'm not trying to be accusatory I'm just asking if you laid the cards out first (I.E. I did the research this is what I know it is worth and this is what I know about the boat) or did you let him dig his grave and then spring the trap.

Sorry just playing Devils Advocate please don't take this the wrong way.

sa meredith · 09-06-2007, 06:11 PM

Hey....EVERYONE!!!!! Enough of all this "well, it's kind of like a used car salesman", or "we all know how used car sales people are".
I've made my living selling new and used autos for 22 very successful years, and would match my attitude and integrity against anyone on this board.
Point your powerful powers of perception at yourselves...

hazelnut · 09-06-2007, 06:31 PM

What I wrote vs what I meant.... You remember the traditional used car guy on the sleazy lot trying to hide the rust with spray paint.... Ever see the movie Used Cars. I guess I was referring to the stereotype.

Anyway I was trying to sort of defend the sales guy a bit..... Guess that got lost in the comment.

NHskier · 09-06-2007, 09:00 PM

We had a very comparable experience to AC2717's at Thurston's at this time last year. We bought a 1998 Cobalt, brokerage sale, and felt we were treated exceptionally well. My wife and I both noticed that, even though we were buying an older boat. I can't really imagine a better sales experience.

Our experience since the sale mirrors AC2717's - everyone there is very good to deal with, friendly, and we've received excellent service across the board.

We looked at boats at several other marinas on that end of the lake and were treated well at all.

NHskier

Ropetow · 09-06-2007, 10:23 PM

We bought a used boat from Gillan Marine in the winter and it was a very positive experience. Ernie Jr. and the crew were nothing but fair and reasonable. We bought it for a fair price and rented a slip there. In July the battery died, and they replaced it free-of-charge. We later needed some engine work and they discounted the fee by a substantial amount. They 'earned' this customer's business for a long time.

09-04-2007, 11:10 PM	#3
Resident 2B Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Shore, MA Posts: 1,357 Thanks: 994 Thanked 313 Times in 163 Posts	Melvin Village Marina I have done business with the good folks at Melvin Village Marina and I was very happy with every aspect of the boat buying experience. Three boating seasons ago, I ended up buying a new boat, but I looked hard at used boats as well. I was very impressed with everyone I met at MVM. Customer service was clearly on the top of their prioity list. Even though I live close to Weirs Beach, I continue to be very happy with MVM. I am now looking at moving up in boat size, from 24' to 28' due to the chop in the Weirs area, and it is coming down to MVM and Lakeport Landing Marina. Both seem great to deal with from my perspective. R2B

09-04-2007, 11:11 PM	#4
LIforrelaxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas, Lake Ray Hubbard and NH, Long Island Winnipesaukee Posts: 2,870 Thanks: 1,037 Thanked 892 Times in 524 Posts	my 2 cents I have dealt with all the Big Marinas on the lake at on point or another for either parts and service, or looking at boats. What I can say is this, it depends on the day and the person you get. I have had good and bad experiences at all the Marinas in this thread. My biggest suggestion to anyone looking at boats is to try and go around on a weekday, the weekends are so hectic that you generally are disappionted. When I was looking 2 years ago I was talking to Marinas Mon.-thurs. setting up test rides for early in the day friday.... It always worked well....It did mean taking a day of from work but hey I was on the water..... __________________ Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....

09-05-2007, 11:47 AM	#8
gravy boat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Gilford year round, West Alton summers Posts: 589 Thanks: 596 Thanked 199 Times in 100 Posts	Buyer beware -- but there are good ones out there! Maxum, Sad, indeed. I think someone hit the nail on the head when he/she mentioned that knuckleheads come up here and throw money around without a care in the world, providing a very dishonest environment. Your experience sounds like one on a shady used car lot! We recently purchased a 1995 Crownline locally -- Dave's Motorboat Shoppe -- and we had a great experience. Dave was and is honest, straight, will tell you the negatives and positives and let you decide. Because of this, we are giving him ALL of our aftermarket business --- all supplies and maintenance, including storage on-site. I highly recommend Dave and Katie. Gravy

09-05-2007, 07:10 AM	#14
AC2717 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maynard, MA & Paugus Bay Posts: 2,573 Thanks: 753 Thanked 353 Times in 265 Posts	Heads up Thank you for the heads up MAxum., BUt to be honest I have to disagree and cannot completely put every marina in the area in the same bag. When I purchased my boat last September, it was used. I shopped around and after being disappointed like you at several of the area marinas, I walked into to Thurston's. Soup to nuts hands down they treated me like I was buying a $150,000 boat not just a $8,000 used old boat. I too did my homework and they were able to answer every question truthfully and what I felt was honestly. Everyone in that place is amazing. It might have helped that the one I purchased was bought serviced and stored there since new. I have had no problems with my boat, knock on wood. Mary in Service is great, Jeff in the sales office is very honest and everyone else I speak to is customer service oriented. I go in there from time to time just to putt around or to buy something and they also come over ask how the family is doing, how the boat is running and they know which boat is mine, and they do not ever try to sell me something and are always willing to give out advice and information. On the other side there are others in the area that I would never step foot on their property if you paid me. I am not up for bashing them today though.

09-06-2007, 08:27 AM	#16
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Pretty funny! __________________ SIKSUKR

09-04-2007, 09:22 PM	#1
MAXUM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kuna ID Posts: 2,755 Thanks: 246 Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts	Well coolbreeze, I get the impression that a buyer like me is the exception not the norm which explains how these dealers get away with it. At the same time it just amazes me how many buyers there must be that are willing to drop big bucks without thinking twice about the price they should be paying or knowing much about what they are getting into. They make easy prey and are easily taken advantage of. All I can do is re-iterate what you said, do your homework before engaging in a deal discussion. Failure to do so could cost you a significant amount of money or land you in a boat that could be hiding significant problems.

09-04-2007, 10:16 PM	#2
brk-lnt Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Down Shores Posts: 1,944 Thanks: 544 Thanked 570 Times in 335 Posts	I recently bought a new-to-me boat, a 2000 Maxum 2300 SCR. My wife and I were definitely "informed" buyers, coming armed with notes, other listings, prices, etc. We ended up buying ours from Silver Sands Marina, but were also very impressed with Shep Brown's as well. Channel Marine folks seemed friendly and helpful as well. Overall I'd say we had a good experience, and didn't get any salespeople trying to be deceptive or misleading. That might've been because they new better, or maybe we just dealt with different people/places than you did. I will say that Fay's was useless, we came to look at 2 specific boats, one I was pretty interested in. The sales guy on duty left for lunch about 10 minutes after we got there, and then never called me in response to the message I left with the sales admin or whoever she was that I was very interested in one of their boats. Trexlers was also less than impressive to us.

09-05-2007, 07:00 AM	#5
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,984 Thanks: 246 Thanked 743 Times in 443 Posts	Maxum, I so feel your pain. I had to go to Indiana to get my boat. I found it on the net at a Sea Ray Dealer (it's a Regal they had taken in trade) and bought it in early 2005. I had a fantastic experience with the dealer there and still keep in touch with the salesman via email. The salesman actually underrated the condition of the boat in our and worked out a deal via the first couple of emails we traded that was well under NADA book value. He brought in a master Mercruiser mechanic to be at my disposal for a full Saturday in January when I flew out to inspect the boat and stored the boat indoors for me from the time I bought it in January until I picked it up in May. He even provided indoor space for me to do the paperwork and trailer setup for the sale of my old boat to a guy from Chicago who met me in Indy. I'm nearly doen with my third season on this boat and just love it. What did you buy?

09-05-2007, 10:36 AM	#6
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,891 Thanks: 334 Thanked 1,673 Times in 584 Posts	You describe yourself as a "good,down to earth,honest guy" and I'm sure that is true but I do not agree that every dealer in the lakes region is as dishonest as those you discribe.There are many marine dealers who have been in business for decades and would NEVER do some of the things that you related. I have a sneaky feeling that you are one of those "customers from hell" that is never happy unless you get what you want for next to nothing......but,of course, your trade is always worth top dollar. Tell me......how could any of these business' survive.....some for 50 years....if they attempted to cheat and lie to every customer as you say they did to you? Shep Browns,Irwins,Lakeport Landing,Channel Marine,Melvin Village and Trexlers,just to name a few, are some of the most respected business' on the lake.....and I don't think it's fair to paint them all with the same brush,since you didn't name the ones who you were unhappy with. You may have had a bad experience but I will bet that if you polled the members of this site,that most would express loyalty and satisfaction with their dealer.

09-05-2007, 10:46 AM	#7
sky_nh Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Gilford Posts: 76 Thanks: 4 Thanked 15 Times in 5 Posts	Yep, it always makes sense to blame the customer. Great marketing advice!

09-06-2007, 07:46 AM	#15
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,891 Thanks: 334 Thanked 1,673 Times in 584 Posts	No......It can't be true......AC2717 is telling us there is an honest marine dealer? Clearly he was deceived. Just teasing,Maxum. Actually I use the same tactics when shopping for vehicles and all of the advice that you offered is very good for anyone shopping for a boat. Where I disagree with you is on your condemnation of all marine dealers in the lakes region.I know many of them and know they wouldn't allow sales people to do the things you described. As for being a "guilty salesman"............no,sorry,I'm a guilty restauratuer,but I'm not telling you where.I can only imagine what you'd put waitstaff through. I can hear you now....."$18.95 for a steak?....I don't think so...I'll give you $14 bucks and not a penny more." "Is it really choice or is it select and you're lying to me....was it fed on grain or grass? Is your scale calibrated? how do I know its really 16 ounces?.....etc etc

09-06-2007, 11:30 AM	#21
Nauset Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 95 Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts	A good experience We purchased a 6 year old brokerage boat from Silver Sands Marina last year. The whole experience was very positive with no pressure or BS. We looked the boat over on two separate occasions and asked lots of questions. They contacted the owner on our request and got copies of all the maintenance records for us to keep. Even though they where just the broker we were treated as if we were buying a new one out of their inventory. We worked with Barry there and he returned every phone call and answered every email. The other staff there was helpful and friendly as well providing assistance with paperwork, registration and insurance. Aaron patiently facilitated the test drive and also took us out for another shake down on the day of delivery to get us familiar with all the boat's systems per the company policy. We even had a problem with our dock on the day we picked up the boat and we called Barry and asked if we could keep the boat there for the week while work was done to the dock. We brought the boat back and they put it in the racks for the week and did not charge us a dime for storage or launching. They even presented us with four caps the day we picked up the boat. We have had the boat for a year now with no problems and had many enjoyable weekends on it.

09-06-2007, 01:39 PM	#22
JayDV Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fairfield, CT & island vacation Posts: 97 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	maybe apply telephone customer service practice More and more telephone customer services are using the "this call will/may be recorded and used for training purposes". Although I am not sure how much they do get used, the idea is pretty good and would help to keep agents and representatives of the business on their toes and maybe a little more straight forward. For fun, I make it a point of referring to the recording as in: "Perhaps you didn't fully understand me, please pay close attention to my words when you replay this call, thank you very much."

09-06-2007, 04:00 PM	#23
hazelnut Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,348 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 508 Thanked 462 Times in 162 Posts	Unfortunate Maxum I was originally at odds with your first post. However, you mentioned that it was the salespeople you dealt with specifically. That is a shame because I am sure there are probably Marina owners out there that would give you a fair deal. You are correct to mention that the salespeople are the face of the dealership. I guess that might suggest that the Boat Salespeople in the Lakes Region aren't up to par. You also mentioned that you were buying used. That is a whole different ball game in my opinion vs buying new. The information on New Boat pricing is much more widely available and it is pretty easy to compare national pricing to what you are getting. The wildcard with the used boat is the condition. Remember what you are asking here.... A sales guy who is trained on all his new models has to shift gears into a used boat guy. I'm not defending their actions just asking you to look at it from their perspective. For example if I sold Brand New Lincolns and you came in looking at an older model maybe a different brand armed with tons of knowledge and started testing me I would go into defensive mode. One more question. Did you go in with a positive attitude or were you armed for battle before the salesperson had a fighting chance. I'm not trying to be accusatory I'm just asking if you laid the cards out first (I.E. I did the research this is what I know it is worth and this is what I know about the boat) or did you let him dig his grave and then spring the trap. Sorry just playing Devils Advocate please don't take this the wrong way. Last edited by hazelnut; 09-06-2007 at 06:28 PM.

09-06-2007, 06:11 PM	#24
sa meredith Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 32 Thanked 352 Times in 137 Posts	new/used auto sales???? Hey....EVERYONE!!!!! Enough of all this "well, it's kind of like a used car salesman", or "we all know how used car sales people are". I've made my living selling new and used autos for 22 very successful years, and would match my attitude and integrity against anyone on this board. Point your powerful powers of perception at yourselves...

09-06-2007, 06:31 PM	#25
hazelnut Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,348 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 508 Thanked 462 Times in 162 Posts	oops What I wrote vs what I meant.... You remember the traditional used car guy on the sleazy lot trying to hide the rust with spray paint.... Ever see the movie Used Cars. I guess I was referring to the stereotype. Anyway I was trying to sort of defend the sales guy a bit..... Guess that got lost in the comment.

09-06-2007, 09:00 PM	#26
NHskier Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 291 Thanks: 43 Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts	We had a very comparable experience to AC2717's at Thurston's at this time last year. We bought a 1998 Cobalt, brokerage sale, and felt we were treated exceptionally well. My wife and I both noticed that, even though we were buying an older boat. I can't really imagine a better sales experience. Our experience since the sale mirrors AC2717's - everyone there is very good to deal with, friendly, and we've received excellent service across the board. We looked at boats at several other marinas on that end of the lake and were treated well at all. NHskier

09-06-2007, 10:23 PM	#27
Ropetow Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Rochester, NH / Bartlett, NH Posts: 322 Thanks: 228 Thanked 33 Times in 13 Posts	We bought a used boat from Gillan Marine in the winter and it was a very positive experience. Ernie Jr. and the crew were nothing but fair and reasonable. We bought it for a fair price and rented a slip there. In July the battery died, and they replaced it free-of-charge. We later needed some engine work and they discounted the fee by a substantial amount. They 'earned' this customer's business for a long time.