Boating in October

CanisLupusArctos · 09-05-2007, 12:38 PM

October has given me some of my best boating memories on this lake. No more Capt. Bonehead crowding the waters, lots of solitude, and fall brings very dry air that makes for some of the best visibility we ever get. Add deep blue skies overlooking hillsides covered with bright-red and orange trees, and you've got something special that a lot of people never get to see.

JeffK, you're right on the delayed foliage schedule on the lake shore. Black Cat Island's leaves usually lag behind the mainland's fall color by about a week, and the immediate shoreline can lag by 2 weeks. Like you, I'm pretty sure that's because of the water temp. We usually have to wait until November for our first frost, even when they're scraping their windshields just a mile away on the mainland.

Beware though - October has two faces. It can be a very nasty weather month on Winni. Sunny, windy cold days with an average chop have left my windshield and clothing covered in ice from the spray over the bow. October usually brings the first arctic cold fronts that can whip winds from Center Harbor to Wolfeborough at 40+ mph.

It's probably not a bad idea to plan for a fall boat ride in some of the same ways you'd prepare for a cold-weather hike. Hypothermia can be an issue, especially if you get stuck out there for longer than a few minutes in windy weather. Therefore I'd bring high-calorie snacks and wear poly-pro, fleece, and other non-cotton clothes with a rain shell.

Last October I shot a fantastic picture of the lake with peak fall foliage and Mount Washington's summit overlooking it all, on a clear, calm day. Just a few days later (Oct. 20) I measured a wind gust to 50 mph as a heavy rainstorm with thunder ended as light snow. Soon after we lost power, the MOUNT came by on an evening cruise in the high winds and I watched as it slowed and kept the search lights on for 2-3 minutes as the captain tried to find the Black Cat Shoals in the storm. I'd never before seen it pass the island with as much care as it did that night.

Rattlesnake Guy · 09-05-2007, 02:28 PM

Agree, the best pics on the lake are in the fall with the dry air and dark blue sky. That time of year, I always bring blankets despite my passengers claims to not need them. Somehow they always get used. I love it. We usually take a bit more care not to get the passengers wet as it can be a lot less fun than July.

Safety-wise I get much more nervous just after ice out when the water is much colder. Be sure to let us know how you make out with your trip.

HomeWood · 09-05-2007, 04:29 PM

Thanks ya'll.

I tell ya, it is a royal pain in the behind to get a certificate that NH will accept. I was told that they will accept one issued to me by NC, but so far nobody in NC can tell me if the state actually issues me one. I mean, c'mon this is a little ridiculous. I've been boating for years and have been a regular on Winni since birth and my family has been going there since the 1950's and we've had the same house in Moultonborough since the 1960's. Ok, that doesn't make me anything special, but I sure miss the days of just being totally care free and really enjoying the lake. But thanks to captain boneheads and their stupidity, we now have all this red tape to cut through just to continue our family traditions. NH marine patrol said that I can get a 2 week certificate after taking an hour long written test. I want to be on vacation, not taking tests!!

Bear Islander · 09-05-2007, 05:44 PM

Try the link below. You can take an on-line test and get a NASBLA approved certificate for $20. That certificate is good in NH.

http://boat-ed.com/nc/index.htm

HomeWood · 09-05-2007, 06:46 PM

That's the one that NH Marine patrol told me to get, but he said that it had to be issued by the state. I have no clue what that certificate says after you pass the test and that's what nobody can answer for me here with NC wildlife. Well, for just $20, why not? Thanks.

Ropetow · 09-05-2007, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Try the link below. You can take an on-line test and get a NASBLA approved certificate for $20. That certificate is good in NH.

http://boat-ed.com/nc/index.htm

This may be a dumb question, but what is to stop someone from NH or any other state from taking this test and using that license in NH? Doesn't that defeat NH's goal of eliminating the online exam?

Bear Islander · 09-05-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ropetow

This may be a dumb question, but what is to stop someone from NH or any other state from taking this test and using that license in NH? Doesn't that defeat NH's goal of eliminating the online exam?

There is nothing to stop a NH resident from getting a online certificate in another state. All you need is a mailing address in that state.

New Hampshire has set a standard by not giving out certificates from online tests. Let's hope other states do the same. But there needs to be reciprocity. If NH certificates are good in other states, then certificates issued by other states should be accepted in NH.

You can get a drivers license at 14 in South Dakota, then drive a car in NH.

Skip · 09-06-2007, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

...You can get a drivers license at 14 in South Dakota, then drive a car in NH...

Not true!

TITLE XXI
MOTOR VEHICLES
CHAPTER 263
DRIVERS' LICENSES
License Reciprocity
Section 263:39
263:39 Limitation. – The provisions of RSA 263:36-38 shall not be deemed to authorize a person under 16 years of age to drive a motor vehicle on the ways of this state.

While there are federal ramifications for a State not to enter in to reciprocal agreements with other States regarding driver's and vehicle licensing, individual States are still allowed to retain their unique identities within their own respective license codes. In this case, while some States do indeed issue licenses to individuals under the age of 16, New Hampshire law trumps that portion of reciprocity and mandates that all out-of-state drivers be at least 16 years of age and hold a license that was granted as an equivalent to New Hampshire's standards.

There is no such federal strings yet required for boating licenses. Furthermore, after being in contact with both Lt. Dunleavy and the Education Coordinator for the New Hampshire Marine Patrol it has been determined that the current regulations for boating license reciprocity in New Hampshire are clear. The same legal verbiage that requires equivalency testing for motor vehicle licenses also applies to boating licenses. The difference is that according to the officials I contacted above there is no reliable way to verify license issuance and compliance in another State. Therefore the official NHMP policy is to ignore the equivalency portion of the RSA and accept any NASBLA approved certificate.

Unfortunately this is a fully understandable position given the haphazard way boating licensing is being approached at the national level!

Bottom line....reciprocity is not and never has been one hundred percent.

Bear Islander · 09-06-2007, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

Not true!

TITLE XXI
MOTOR VEHICLES
CHAPTER 263
DRIVERS' LICENSES
License Reciprocity
Section 263:39
263:39 Limitation. – The provisions of RSA 263:36-38 shall not be deemed to authorize a person under 16 years of age to drive a motor vehicle on the ways of this state.

While there are federal ramifications for a State not to enter in to reciprocal agreements with other States regarding driver's and vehicle licensing, individual States are still allowed to retain their unique identities within their own respective license codes. In this case, while some States do indeed issue licenses to individuals under the age of 16, New Hampshire law trumps that portion of reciprocity and mandates that all out-of-state drivers be at least 16 years of age and hold a license that was granted as an equivalent to New Hampshire's standards.

There is no such federal strings yet required for boating licenses. Furthermore, after being in contact with both Lt. Dunleavy and the Education Coordinator for the New Hampshire Marine Patrol it has been determined that the current regulations for boating license reciprocity in New Hampshire are clear. The same legal verbiage that requires equivalency testing for motor vehicle licenses also applies to boating licenses. The difference is that according to the officials I contacted above there is no reliable way to verify license issuance and compliance in another State. Therefore the official NHMP policy is to ignore the equivalency portion of the RSA and accept any NASBLA approved certificate.

Unfortunately this is a fully understandable position given the haphazard way boating licensing is being approached at the national level!

Bottom line....reciprocity is not and never has been one hundred percent.

I shudda known Skip would come along and trump me on that! However my point is still valid, there are things that you can do in NH through reciprocity that are not allowed to NH residents.

Besides my statement is true. A 14 year old with a South Dakota license can drive in NH. They just can't do it legally!

Rattlesnake Guy · 09-06-2007, 08:56 PM

By that logic an 8 year old can drive in Maine

Dave R · 09-07-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

By that logic an 8 year old can drive in Maine

Only if they are taking their kid to day care though.

HomeWood · 09-08-2007, 02:34 PM

Well... I just passed the online safety course test at Boat-Ed.com and the certificate that gets mailed to me IS ISSUED by NC Wildlife Resource Commission. So, I'm good to boat in NH now. Yay!

The hardest part of this whole process was finding out what NH will and will not accept.
The test wasn't really hard. I got a few wrong, but I did learn some stuff and got some good reminders.

HomeWood · 09-12-2007, 09:09 PM

So, I get a call back today from NC wildlife (8 days later

)and the woman tells me that the safety certificate that I get online from Boat-ed.com, IS NOT actually issued by the state, but NC will observe it just the same as if I went through a NC wildlife course. Boat-ed sure makes it sound like it's state issued according to their site. It's got NC wildlife course all over it. You can even look for yourselves, it's confusing. It's only the same course she tells me. She tells me to call Boat-ed and I did. The woman at Boat-ed says that NH will accept it and that they have already gone through it with the state of NH. She then gives me the number to NH Marine boating education/enforcement and tells me to ask for a specific person. That person is not there, but the guy that was tells me that they only accept state issued certificates. (We all know that) But he said it depends on what the certificate I get in the mail "looks like and how it reads". Basically he said if it looks state issued it may be acceptable. Looks state issued and reads as if it's state issued? What the he** does that mean? It's like they will kind of accept it, but maybe not, but maybe they will. "We've been having a lot of problems with the confusion over this". Ya think????? How about making it a lot freakin easier for people who want to obey the rules to do so. Like me and a lot of other people. If you can't tell, I'm a little steamed over all this.
When I get my certificate in the mail, I am supposed to then fax it to NH marine education/enforcement and the guy I talked to today will tell me if it will be ok. I doubt that it will be him checking me on the water. If worse comes to worse, I can go to a marina that will issue a 2 week certificate after a short test. Wow, what a freakin' headache!! Almost not even worth the 14 hour trip up there. I guess my dad who is not required to have a certificate until 2008 can drive MY boat if I can't get anything....

I won't do it, but we all know that if I took the chance and went out with nothing there would be two boats on the lake. Mine and an MP!

Even though I have never ever been stopped before. Good luck or good boater?????

LIforrelaxin · 09-12-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomeWood

When I get my certificate in the mail, I am supposed to then fax it to NH marine education/enforcement and the guy I talked to today will tell me if it will be ok. I doubt that it will be him checking me on the water. If worse comes to worse, I can go to a marina that will issue a 2 week certificate after a short test. Wow, what a freakin' headache!! Almost not even worth the 14 hour trip up there.

I agree with you Homewood it is a headache... I myself carry certificate from both NH and Vermont with me. I have had the Vermont certificate for years because they required it before NH when I lived up there and boated on Lake Champlain. When NH started to require the certificate I went round and round with the MP...(no reflection on them, they where all pleasant to deal with it just wasn't easy because no one knew).... and in the end I decided to just get my NH certificate, which I could still do online at that time and it would be less agrivation..

HomeWood · 09-12-2007, 09:42 PM

I wish I knew about the safety certificate thing when you could still take it online and it was accepted. That's one of the biggest problems. Nobody can give me a straight answer!!!!!

Phantom · 09-13-2007, 07:38 AM

Once again -- it has been checked by numerous other people-- i..e see all the threads on the topic.

NHMP will accept any out of state certificate or license providing it is a NASBLA approved course and clearly indicates such on the issued card.

HomeWood · 09-13-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

Once again -- it has been checked by numerous other people-- i..e see all the threads on the topic.

NHMP will accept any out of state certificate or license providing it is a NASBLA approved course and clearly indicates such on the issued card.

That's the key. Out of state means any STATE issued. Boat-ed.com is a third party company. NC Wildlife told me that a certificate through them is not actually issued by the state of NC. Boat-ed.com is deceiving. It has the NC wildlife logo and calls the certificate you get as being the NC Wildlife boating safety certificate.

HomeWood · 09-14-2007, 09:20 AM

Ok, so here is the final result. I faxed my certificate/card yesterday that I got in the mail. I just got a call back from a gentleman at NH Marine education this morning. He said, it's a vaild certificate and I am all set to boat in NH. Even though this was a big pain for me. The people at NH marine education have been very helpful the whole time and seemed eager to work with me. I would still say that even if I they told me that it was not an acceptable certificate. I'm glad this is over and now I can just concentrate on my vacation.

Rattlesnake Guy · 09-05-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomeWood

Thanks ya'll.

I tell ya, it is a royal pain in the behind to get a certificate that NH will accept. I was told that they will accept one issued to me by NC, but so far nobody in NC can tell me if the state actually issues me one. I mean, c'mon this is a little ridiculous. I've been boating for years and have been a regular on Winni since birth and my family has been going there since the 1950's and we've had the same house in Moultonborough since the 1960's. Ok, that doesn't make me anything special, but I sure miss the days of just being totally care free and really enjoying the lake. But thanks to captain boneheads and their stupidity, we now have all this red tape to cut through just to continue our family traditions. NH marine patrol said that I can get a 2 week certificate after taking an hour long written test. I want to be on vacation, not taking tests!!

Homewood,
Think how we felt when we all had to go through it after being on the lake for years. As we waited for the age curve to fully implement we had the situation where I could let totally inexperienced visitors drive my boat but my kids who arguably drive the boat better than I do, could not get behind the wheel until they turned 16 and could take the test.

On the other hand, I am in favor of this training and certification.

HomeWood · 09-05-2007, 10:01 PM

I agree RGuy, I am in favor of it aswell. We have a lot of Cpt Boneheads here. We have no requirements for any safety certificate or the like. Buy a boat and go to it. I've been wanting to take a course anyway, but there really needs to be a nation wide accepted one. Whether it be a Coast Guard one or whatever. How about every state require the SAME one? No certificate, no boating, that simple. Funny how almost every boating topic ends up with this discussion

09-05-2007, 12:38 PM	#1
CanisLupusArctos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Center Harbor Posts: 1,049 Thanks: 15 Thanked 472 Times in 107 Posts	October is some of the best & worst October has given me some of my best boating memories on this lake. No more Capt. Bonehead crowding the waters, lots of solitude, and fall brings very dry air that makes for some of the best visibility we ever get. Add deep blue skies overlooking hillsides covered with bright-red and orange trees, and you've got something special that a lot of people never get to see. JeffK, you're right on the delayed foliage schedule on the lake shore. Black Cat Island's leaves usually lag behind the mainland's fall color by about a week, and the immediate shoreline can lag by 2 weeks. Like you, I'm pretty sure that's because of the water temp. We usually have to wait until November for our first frost, even when they're scraping their windshields just a mile away on the mainland. Beware though - October has two faces. It can be a very nasty weather month on Winni. Sunny, windy cold days with an average chop have left my windshield and clothing covered in ice from the spray over the bow. October usually brings the first arctic cold fronts that can whip winds from Center Harbor to Wolfeborough at 40+ mph. It's probably not a bad idea to plan for a fall boat ride in some of the same ways you'd prepare for a cold-weather hike. Hypothermia can be an issue, especially if you get stuck out there for longer than a few minutes in windy weather. Therefore I'd bring high-calorie snacks and wear poly-pro, fleece, and other non-cotton clothes with a rain shell. Last October I shot a fantastic picture of the lake with peak fall foliage and Mount Washington's summit overlooking it all, on a clear, calm day. Just a few days later (Oct. 20) I measured a wind gust to 50 mph as a heavy rainstorm with thunder ended as light snow. Soon after we lost power, the MOUNT came by on an evening cruise in the high winds and I watched as it slowed and kept the search lights on for 2-3 minutes as the captain tried to find the Black Cat Shoals in the storm. I'd never before seen it pass the island with as much care as it did that night.

09-08-2007, 02:34 PM	#12
HomeWood Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Clayton,NC / Sanbornton,NH Posts: 611 Thanks: 126 Thanked 137 Times in 75 Posts	Well... I just passed the online safety course test at Boat-Ed.com and the certificate that gets mailed to me IS ISSUED by NC Wildlife Resource Commission. So, I'm good to boat in NH now. Yay! The hardest part of this whole process was finding out what NH will and will not accept. The test wasn't really hard. I got a few wrong, but I did learn some stuff and got some good reminders. Last edited by HomeWood; 09-08-2007 at 03:45 PM.

09-13-2007, 07:38 AM	#16
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,934 Thanks: 450 Thanked 605 Times in 341 Posts	Once again -- it has been checked by numerous other people-- i..e see all the threads on the topic. NHMP *will* accept any out of state certificate or license providing it is a NASBLA approved course and *clearly indicates such on the issued card.* __________________ *A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!*

09-05-2007, 02:28 PM	#2
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	Agree, the best pics on the lake are in the fall with the dry air and dark blue sky. That time of year, I always bring blankets despite my passengers claims to not need them. Somehow they always get used. I love it. We usually take a bit more care not to get the passengers wet as it can be a lot less fun than July. Safety-wise I get much more nervous just after ice out when the water is much colder. Be sure to let us know how you make out with your trip.

09-05-2007, 04:29 PM	#3
HomeWood Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Clayton,NC / Sanbornton,NH Posts: 611 Thanks: 126 Thanked 137 Times in 75 Posts	Thanks ya'll. I tell ya, it is a royal pain in the behind to get a certificate that NH will accept. I was told that they will accept one issued to me by NC, but so far nobody in NC can tell me if the state actually issues me one. I mean, c'mon this is a little ridiculous. I've been boating for years and have been a regular on Winni since birth and my family has been going there since the 1950's and we've had the same house in Moultonborough since the 1960's. Ok, that doesn't make me anything special, but I sure miss the days of just being totally care free and really enjoying the lake. But thanks to captain boneheads and their stupidity, we now have all this red tape to cut through just to continue our family traditions. NH marine patrol said that I can get a 2 week certificate after taking an hour long written test. I want to be on vacation, not taking tests!!

09-05-2007, 05:44 PM	#4
Bear Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bear Island Posts: 1,764 Thanks: 32 Thanked 441 Times in 207 Posts	Try the link below. You can take an on-line test and get a NASBLA approved certificate for $20. That certificate is good in NH. http://boat-ed.com/nc/index.htm

09-05-2007, 06:46 PM	#5
HomeWood Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Clayton,NC / Sanbornton,NH Posts: 611 Thanks: 126 Thanked 137 Times in 75 Posts	That's the one that NH Marine patrol told me to get, but he said that it had to be issued by the state. I have no clue what that certificate says after you pass the test and that's what nobody can answer for me here with NC wildlife. Well, for just $20, why not? Thanks.

09-06-2007, 08:56 PM	#10
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	By that logic an 8 year old can drive in Maine

09-12-2007, 09:09 PM	#13
HomeWood Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Clayton,NC / Sanbornton,NH Posts: 611 Thanks: 126 Thanked 137 Times in 75 Posts	So, I get a call back today from NC wildlife (8 days later )and the woman tells me that the safety certificate that I get online from Boat-ed.com, IS NOT actually issued by the state, but NC will observe it just the same as if I went through a NC wildlife course. Boat-ed sure makes it sound like it's state issued according to their site. It's got NC wildlife course all over it. You can even look for yourselves, it's confusing. It's only the same course she tells me. She tells me to call Boat-ed and I did. The woman at Boat-ed says that NH will accept it and that they have already gone through it with the state of NH. She then gives me the number to NH Marine boating education/enforcement and tells me to ask for a specific person. That person is not there, but the guy that was tells me that they only accept state issued certificates. (We all know that) But he said it depends on what the certificate I get in the mail "looks like and how it reads". Basically he said if it looks state issued it may be acceptable. Looks state issued and reads as if it's state issued? What the he does that mean? It's like they will kind of accept it, but maybe not, but maybe they will. "We've been having a lot of problems with the confusion over this". Ya think????? How about making it a lot freakin easier for people who want to obey the rules to do so. Like me and a lot of other people. If you can't tell, I'm a little steamed over all this. When I get my certificate in the mail, I am supposed to then fax it to NH marine education/enforcement and the guy I talked to today will tell me if it will be ok. I doubt that it will be him checking me on the water.** If worse comes to worse, I can go to a marina that will issue a 2 week certificate after a short test. Wow, what a freakin' headache!! Almost not even worth the 14 hour trip up there. I guess my dad who is not required to have a certificate until 2008 can drive MY boat if I can't get anything.... I won't do it, but we all know that if I took the chance and went out with nothing there would be two boats on the lake. Mine and an MP! Even though I have never ever been stopped before. Good luck or good boater?????

09-12-2007, 09:42 PM	#15
HomeWood Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Clayton,NC / Sanbornton,NH Posts: 611 Thanks: 126 Thanked 137 Times in 75 Posts	I wish I knew about the safety certificate thing when you could still take it online and it was accepted. That's one of the biggest problems. Nobody can give me a straight answer!!!!!

09-14-2007, 09:20 AM	#18
HomeWood Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Clayton,NC / Sanbornton,NH Posts: 611 Thanks: 126 Thanked 137 Times in 75 Posts	Ok, so here is the final result. I faxed my certificate/card yesterday that I got in the mail. I just got a call back from a gentleman at NH Marine education this morning. He said, it's a vaild certificate and I am all set to boat in NH. Even though this was a big pain for me. The people at NH marine education have been very helpful the whole time and seemed eager to work with me. I would still say that even if I they told me that it was not an acceptable certificate. I'm glad this is over and now I can just concentrate on my vacation.

09-05-2007, 10:01 PM	#20
HomeWood Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Clayton,NC / Sanbornton,NH Posts: 611 Thanks: 126 Thanked 137 Times in 75 Posts	I agree RGuy, I am in favor of it aswell. We have a lot of Cpt Boneheads here. We have no requirements for any safety certificate or the like. Buy a boat and go to it. I've been wanting to take a course anyway, but there really needs to be a nation wide accepted one. Whether it be a Coast Guard one or whatever. How about every state require the SAME one? No certificate, no boating, that simple. Funny how almost every boating topic ends up with this discussion