Proposed HB 383 Ammending Shoreland Protection Act

eyenotall777 · 09-12-2007, 06:03 PM

Okay, here it goes....I have one of those lurkers for approx. 3yrs. now, this will be my first posting.

Is there anyone out there that can clarify this new bill?

1) I know it seems as of 4/1/08 you will not be able to do any building or excavation of any sort within 50ft of the shoreline, correct me if I am wrong.

2) What will be the minimum footage for a foundation from the shoreline after this bill goes into effect?

3) We have a beach right now that is not perched and has been on the shorefront for at least 40yrs. that we know of (we purchased the property back in 10/06.) It is not flat, but a little slope to it w/ what seems like railroad ties behind it that go into the ground approx. 2ft. The beach area is approx. (25'L x 12'W). We would like to remove the railroad ties and build a retaining wall in it's place. Is this possible? Your thoughts please. It is not Lake Winni, but 15 min. from Alton Bay.

4) If we were to have a site plan done and have a foundation poured and then capped before 4/1/08, but not really begin construction until 10/1/08, would we be okay? We would have approx. 18 months for construction completion.

Any and all knowledge would be helpful, looking forward to hearing from you.

Rattlesnake Guy · 09-12-2007, 09:29 PM

Hard to be correct on this one but I will stick my neck out. I heard that a town's rules can supersede the new state rules. So for example if the state says 50 foot set back from the water and Alton say 30 feet, you may get the permit for 30 feet.

When I recently did a project within 250 feet of the shore and checked what qualified for a DES permit, it seemed like just about everything requires the State's approval now. The extensive process included a check to see if any endangered species would be impacted by my project.

In case the DES follows this web site I must say, this is a fantastic system that has my full support.

And thank you for my permit.

Onshore · 09-13-2007, 08:00 AM

1) I know it seems as of 4/1/08 you will not be able to do any building or excavation of any sort within 50ft of the shoreline, correct me if I am wrong.

New primary structures (residential or commercial) can not be constructed within 50 ft of the shoreline after 4/1/08. There is still language in the law which allows DES to develop rules for the constuction of small accessory structures between the 50 ft setback and the shoreline.

2) What will be the minimum footage for a foundation from the shoreline after this bill goes into effect?

50 ft. There are provisions to allow building on undersized pre-existing lots.

3) We have a beach right now that is not perched and has been on the shorefront for at least 40yrs. that we know of (we purchased the property back in 10/06.) It is not flat, but a little slope to it w/ what seems like railroad ties behind it that go into the ground approx. 2ft. The beach area is approx. (25'L x 12'W). We would like to remove the railroad ties and build a retaining wall in it's place. Is this possible? Your thoughts please. It is not Lake Winni, but 15 min. from Alton Bay.

You can and will be able to replace the wall around the back of your beach. You should get a wetlands permit for that work. It would fall into the minimum impact category.

4) If we were to have a site plan done and have a foundation poured and then capped before 4/1/08, but not really begin construction until 10/1/08, would we be okay? We would have approx. 18 months for construction completion.

You would be ok, but you should photo document the project to show that you started earlier than 4/1/08 just in case some well-meaning, misinformed individual calls DES and logs a complaint.

Prior to the most recent changes to the Shoreland Protection Act a town could have a lesser setback that the State's 50 ft distance. This is no longer the case. The minimum setback in all towns is now 50 ft.

Rattlesnake Guy · 09-21-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Hard to be correct on this one but I will stick my neck out. I heard that a town's rules can supersede the new state rules. So for example if the state says 50 foot set back from the water and Alton say 30 feet, you may get the permit for 30 feet.

.

I double checked with the Town of Alton after making this original post. I asked about the set backs on the lake and was told it is changing soon. As indicated here, as of April 1, 2008 it will be 50 feet. The town's 30 feet will not matter. I asked what would be required to be OK at 30 feet as the law is now and was told that the structure would have to be built by April 1rst. Wanted to pass this updated info along as it conflicted with my earlier post.

If anyone knows something different on getting a future house grandfathered to the existing rule without actually building the house it would be very valuable info.

eyenotall777 · 09-22-2007, 10:27 AM

For all your replies. I guess you could say that is a little confusing. For example, the town our property is located is adjacent to Alton. We were told a yr. ago (by the building inspector who new the property very well), then that the setback for the Town for 50'. When we had a excavator take a look at the property (who seems to do a lot of work in the town), informed us it is 150' (and it always has been. So needless to say, we have been seeming to get conflicting answers from officials (not meaning anywhere from here, this forum is very informitive).

I'll let you know what more I find/hear as well.

Thanks.

idigtractors · 09-22-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

I double checked with the Town of Alton after making this original post. I asked about the set backs on the lake and was told it is changing soon. As indicated here, as of April 1, 2008 it will be 50 feet. The town's 30 feet will not matter. I asked what would be required to be OK at 30 feet as the law is now and was told that the structure would have to be built by April 1rst. Wanted to pass this updated info along as it conflicted with my earlier post.

If anyone knows something different on getting a future house grandfathered to the existing rule without actually building the house it would be very valuable info.

I have a question regarding your findings. When I built in Alton in 1994 it was stated by my engineer on all paperwork to the town for layout of house and septic system that my property was "Pre 1967 and grandfathered at the distance of 30' from the water). I have no idea what is meant by Pre 1967 and never asked as all I wanted was to build a home and build it legal. Was anything like this mentioned to you when you went to the town offices??

RLW · 09-22-2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idigtractors

I have a question regarding your findings. When I built in Alton in 1994 it was stated by my engineer on all paperwork to the town for layout of house and septic system that my property was "Pre 1967 and grandfathered at the distance of 30' from the water). I have no idea what is meant by Pre 1967 and never asked as all I wanted was to build a home and build it legal. Was anything like this mentioned to you when you went to the town offices??

I do not have an answer, but you sound as if you may have used the same engineer that we did back in 1993 as all my paperwork stated the exact same thing, "Pre 1967". I being on the safe side placed my home 50' from waters edge even knowing I could place it closer. Hey, the kids can walk the extra 20' without killing them. Am I right??? It also gives the family a bit more lawn to mow and/or take care of or just move around in playing games.

Heaven · 09-26-2007, 08:43 PM

Pre 19** usually mean the lot was created (subdivided off a larger parcel) previous to that date (which is often a date of a code change or requirement) -- sometimes requirements change based on the age of the lot.

eyenotall777 · 09-26-2007, 09:55 PM

There was an article in the Boston Sunday Globe (9/23) in regards to NH changing waterfront regulations. It stated how the new rules were enacted on July 1 when the State Legislature passed amendments to the 1994 Comprehensive Shoreland Protection Act. The most important of the new regulations that any construction within 250' of a freshwater shore will need a permit under the Protection Act. It also stated that in the past there were certain conditions within a 250' zone that a project has to meet before it would even fall in jurisdiction fo the Protection Act where as confusion often lead to mis-understandings. The Act now has strict rules and regs. regarding construction so close to the water that they must be followed regardless. Pre-existing homes can still make renovations, BUT, you just can't down a house and build and put up a bigger one. With the new regulations to take effect in April the state is out there trying to train and educate the towns so there are no mis-understandings.

Just passing info along........

ApS · 09-27-2007, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyenotall777

"...With the new regulations to take effect in April the state is out there trying to train and educate the towns so there are no mis-understandings..."

There seem to be a few "misunderstandings" by the Town within view of my porch.

Within the last week, two non-local builders have put in five docks: one is the conventional 40-footer, and four are 50-footers. Two are effectively 60-footers because of nine pilings driven off the ends.

And these five docks are for just two houses!

LIforrelaxin · 09-28-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

There seem to be a few "misunderstandings" by the Town within view of my porch.

Within the last week, two non-local builders have put in five docks: one is the conventional 40-footer, and four are 50-footers. Two are effectively 60-footers because of nine pilings driven off the ends.

And these five docks are for just two houses!

APS, have you checked to see if these "non-local builders" had the proper permits for these docks? Especially with pilings being driven in these docks sound permenant and therefore should only be 30 feet in length unless they should some hard ship like shallow water. There is a search engine on the DES page to look for permits, and if you know the location it works pretty well.

ApS · 10-05-2007, 06:42 AM

Sometimes, permits are posted at the sites: in neither case did this occur.

A friend advised me that the pair of 50-footer docks nearest his place had hired an attorney who complained of shallow water there—but the depth there is no different than the depth at his place!

It seems that if you intend to put a "Really Big Boat" there, you can get any dock length you want....

The other site (the triple nearest me) has plenty of depth, but the new construction's runoff of soil may require another ten feet to be added to each dock next year.

Come to think of it, runoff just before 2007's Ice-Out pushed soil, clay, gravel and rocks 250 feet down a driveway, around (and through!) a cellar, under the first "silt fence", and managed to cover the first eighteen feet of the old dock!

Have I mentioned that I'm in favor of the new Shoreland Protection Act?

09-12-2007, 06:03 PM	#1
eyenotall777 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 154 Thanks: 40 Thanked 28 Times in 19 Posts	Clarification Okay, here it goes....I have one of those lurkers for approx. 3yrs. now, this will be my first posting. Is there anyone out there that can clarify this new bill? 1) I know it seems as of 4/1/08 you will not be able to do any building or excavation of any sort within 50ft of the shoreline, correct me if I am wrong. 2) What will be the minimum footage for a foundation from the shoreline after this bill goes into effect? 3) We have a beach right now that is not perched and has been on the shorefront for at least 40yrs. that we know of (we purchased the property back in 10/06.) It is not flat, but a little slope to it w/ what seems like railroad ties behind it that go into the ground approx. 2ft. The beach area is approx. (25'L x 12'W). We would like to remove the railroad ties and build a retaining wall in it's place. Is this possible? Your thoughts please. It is not Lake Winni, but 15 min. from Alton Bay. 4) If we were to have a site plan done and have a foundation poured and then capped before 4/1/08, but not really begin construction until 10/1/08, would we be okay? We would have approx. 18 months for construction completion. Any and all knowledge would be helpful, looking forward to hearing from you.

09-22-2007, 10:27 AM	#5
eyenotall777 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 154 Thanks: 40 Thanked 28 Times in 19 Posts	Thank You..... For all your replies. I guess you could say that is a little confusing. For example, the town our property is located is adjacent to Alton. We were told a yr. ago (by the building inspector who new the property very well), then that the setback for the Town for 50'. When we had a excavator take a look at the property (who seems to do a lot of work in the town), informed us it is 150' (and it always has been. So needless to say, we have been seeming to get conflicting answers from officials (not meaning anywhere from here, this forum is very informitive). I'll let you know what more I find/hear as well. Thanks.

09-26-2007, 09:55 PM	#9
eyenotall777 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 154 Thanks: 40 Thanked 28 Times in 19 Posts	Building near the water? Not so fast...... There was an article in the Boston Sunday Globe (9/23) in regards to NH changing waterfront regulations. It stated how the new rules were enacted on July 1 when the State Legislature passed amendments to the 1994 Comprehensive Shoreland Protection Act. The most important of the new regulations that any construction within 250' of a freshwater shore will need a permit under the Protection Act. It also stated that in the past there were certain conditions within a 250' zone that a project has to meet before it would even fall in jurisdiction fo the Protection Act where as confusion often lead to mis-understandings. The Act now has strict rules and regs. regarding construction so close to the water that they must be followed regardless. Pre-existing homes can still make renovations, BUT, you just can't down a house and build and put up a bigger one. With the new regulations to take effect in April the state is out there trying to train and educate the towns so there are no mis-understandings. Just passing info along........

10-05-2007, 06:42 AM	#12
ApS Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florida (Sebring & Keys), Wolfeboro Posts: 5,950 Thanks: 2,223 Thanked 781 Times in 557 Posts	Amen to Amending! Sometimes, permits are posted at the sites: in neither case did this occur. A friend advised me that the pair of 50-footer docks nearest his place had hired an attorney who complained of shallow water there—but the depth there is no different than the depth at his place! It seems that if you intend to put a "Really Big Boat" there, you can get any dock length you want.... The other site (the triple nearest me) has plenty of depth, but the new construction's runoff of soil may require another ten feet to be added to each dock next year. Come to think of it, runoff just before 2007's Ice-Out pushed soil, clay, gravel and rocks 250 feet down a driveway, around (and through!) a cellar, under the first "silt fence", and managed to cover the first eighteen feet of the old dock! Have I mentioned that I'm in favor of the new Shoreland Protection Act? Attached Images __________________ Is it "Common Sense" isn't.

09-12-2007, 09:29 PM	#2
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	Hard to be correct on this one but I will stick my neck out. I heard that a town's rules can supersede the new state rules. So for example if the state says 50 foot set back from the water and Alton say 30 feet, you may get the permit for 30 feet. When I recently did a project within 250 feet of the shore and checked what qualified for a DES permit, it seemed like just about everything requires the State's approval now. The extensive process included a check to see if any endangered species would be impacted by my project. In case the DES follows this web site I must say, this is a fantastic system that has my full support. And thank you for my permit.

09-13-2007, 08:00 AM	#3
Onshore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 503 Thanks: 12 Thanked 425 Times in 146 Posts	1) I know it seems as of 4/1/08 you will not be able to do any building or excavation of any sort within 50ft of the shoreline, correct me if I am wrong. New primary structures (residential or commercial) can not be constructed within 50 ft of the shoreline after 4/1/08. There is still language in the law which allows DES to develop rules for the constuction of small accessory structures between the 50 ft setback and the shoreline. 2) What will be the minimum footage for a foundation from the shoreline after this bill goes into effect? 50 ft. There are provisions to allow building on undersized pre-existing lots. 3) We have a beach right now that is not perched and has been on the shorefront for at least 40yrs. that we know of (we purchased the property back in 10/06.) It is not flat, but a little slope to it w/ what seems like railroad ties behind it that go into the ground approx. 2ft. The beach area is approx. (25'L x 12'W). We would like to remove the railroad ties and build a retaining wall in it's place. Is this possible? Your thoughts please. It is not Lake Winni, but 15 min. from Alton Bay. You can and will be able to replace the wall around the back of your beach. You should get a wetlands permit for that work. It would fall into the minimum impact category. 4) If we were to have a site plan done and have a foundation poured and then capped before 4/1/08, but not really begin construction until 10/1/08, would we be okay? We would have approx. 18 months for construction completion. You would be ok, but you should photo document the project to show that you started earlier than 4/1/08 just in case some well-meaning, misinformed individual calls DES and logs a complaint. Prior to the most recent changes to the Shoreland Protection Act a town could have a lesser setback that the State's 50 ft distance. This is no longer the case. The minimum setback in all towns is now 50 ft.

09-26-2007, 08:43 PM	#8
Heaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 523 Thanks: 128 Thanked 95 Times in 67 Posts	Pre 19** usually mean the lot was created (subdivided off a larger parcel) previous to that date (which is often a date of a code change or requirement) -- sometimes requirements change based on the age of the lot.