Island Property Insurance

Rattlesnake Guy · 10-03-2007, 05:09 PM

Sounds like the lender is the problem for requiring you to have more insurance than you need. An island lot is usually worth least half of the property value. Hang in there, trust me that it will be worth the hassle when you get done.

We have used
Paul Turner
Liberty Insurance
Farmington NH 03835
603-755-3511

They used Phoenix Mutual

Some numbers if it helps.
We have a $1000 deductible
Dwelling $150K
Other Structures $15K
Personal Property $75K
Loss of use 30K

Personal Liability $500K
Medical $5K each

Annual premium under $500 bucks.

I never tried to get 100% of the retail value and my lender did not ask for it.

One step at a time. You can do it.

Webbsatwinni · 10-04-2007, 08:15 AM

Thanks RG

The issue seems to be that the appraiser feels that it would take more than 1/2 of the appraised value to rebuild. We have gone back to her, but they will not adjust it.
We are hanging in and it will be worth it!

Lakegeezer · 10-04-2007, 08:23 AM

Its amazing how much it costs to rebuild these days. It is unlikely you can build on an island for less than $150 per square foot, and it could easily be much more. $200K for replacement means a maximum of 1300 sqare feet. What size are you looking to insure? Just a thought, but can you take out a home equity loan on your primary house to pay for the island home, then reduce the coverage? Risky, but more affordable.

codeman671 · 10-04-2007, 08:30 AM

That sounds ridiculous. We pay $750 a year on ours and have an estimated replacement cost of $330k, and that is on a log home which is usually more expensive than stick built.

We did find that a few insurers wanted to put enough coverage on it to cover the land value as well, rather silly being that even if the house burns down the land still remains. Our bank certainly did not require this.

AC2717 · 10-04-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman671

That sounds ridiculous. We pay $750 a year on ours and have an estimated replacement cost of $330k, and that is on a log home which is usually more expensive than stick built.

We did find that a few insurers wanted to put enough coverage on it to cover the land value as well, rather silly being that even if the house burns down the land still remains. Our bank certainly did not require this.

On to of this the land is not even covered in the replacement, it is just covered for liability

Island Dweller · 10-04-2007, 01:29 PM

Obtaining Island insurance is definitely one of the more aggravating ordeals but don't let it take away from your enjoyment of your new vacation home. Did you find that companies wouldn't give you insurance because of the fact it was on an island, or because of your heating source? Again, I recommend giving Allstate a call. I already had boat & snow mobile insurance through them and I even changed my primary NH residence to Allstate because of the money savings. As I mentioned earlier, just adding a few heat strips in the home (it's a log home) qualified me for their homeowners insurance with a huge savings over what I was paying through Avery, so it was a no-brainer. I do remember being told that there was something new in NH insurance policies where as the company had to pay replacement value no matter what the total cost is, and now there are specific dollar amounts on the policies.(as of October 2007).

Webbsatwinni · 10-04-2007, 02:41 PM

Island Dweller

You are correct, if we did this in September, there would have been no issue. If the mortgage we are going for is less than the house only replacement number the appraiser puts on it, you still need the 100% replacement number.

There was a large insurance company that said no, but when I told the mortgage broker that if we could not find the insurance, we were done and not moving ahead. He made some calls to friends and that company called me and they are back at the table.

Still trying and can't wait to get this behind us.

Thanks to all!

oliviernh · 10-04-2007, 04:22 PM

When we were building on Rattlesnake in 2005 we couldn't find anyone to insure the property...including Avery. Finally I connected with Codeman and he set me up with Mike Bertelone at Farm Family Insurance. Once I talked to him it was NO PROBLEM...For around $600 per year!!! Call Mike at 223-6686 and you won't have a problem.

Blue Thunder · 10-05-2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliviernh

Call Mike at 223-6686 and you won't have a problem.

Farm Family is the way to go. Call Mike.

BT

NightWing · 10-05-2007, 11:29 AM

Insuring a home for full loan value is crazy. Even if your home burns to the ground, you still have the lot, the foundation, basement, (if you have one) septic system, fresh water source. The home itself is only required to be insured to 80% of rebuilding costs. If you insure for less, they may not pay off in case of a loss.

Rattlesnake Guy · 10-06-2007, 04:09 PM

You can see why the insurance company would not want to make your place more valuable burnt to the ground than standing by over insuring.

Reminds me of when my employer wanted to insure key employees for the companies benefit. I declined over fear it would make it harder for me to get insurance as I would be considered over insured.

Webbsatwinni · 10-17-2007, 02:15 PM

I just wanted to take a minute and thank everyone for their great advice and assistance. We are all set to close on the 19th and I owe a big part of that to the forum.

Thanks again and join us in hoping for good (or so so) weather on Friday for the closing walk though and the boat ride out there.

GWC... · 10-17-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

I just wanted to take a minute and thank everyone for their great advice and assistance. We are all set to close on the 19th and I owe a big part of that to the forum.

Thanks again and join us in hoping for good (or so so) weather on Friday for the closing walk though and the boat ride out there.

The weather looks warm and the waves should be minimal with a southern breeze, especially on the Broads side of the Island; but you might appreciate some rain gear, just in case...

Alton Bay Bob · 10-17-2007, 07:07 PM

Congrats on being the newest home owner on the lake. I was mesmerized reading through the posts... Your fortitude and the great help of everyone on this forum helped make it possible. You will find the same great folks will give you advice on any questions. You have found the best spot in the world for advice and help. I also think you found the best part of the lake...

So when are you going to invite all us landlubbers to the famous Rattlesnake Island for a small intimate party?

Blue Thunder · 10-18-2007, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

I just wanted to take a minute and thank everyone for their great advice and assistance. We are all set to close on the 19th and I owe a big part of that to the forum.

Thanks again and join us in hoping for good (or so so) weather on Friday for the closing walk though and the boat ride out there.

Would you care to tell us who you finally went with?

BT

Webbsatwinni · 10-23-2007, 02:15 PM

First, we went with Allstate, best coverage and the best annual premium we could find.

Then the next part, we got to the closing (after towing the bow for a few hours) only to find an issue with the title, there was an undisclosed private mortgage that was never removed. We turned around and went home (towing again).

The paperwork is now complete and we are trying again for this Friday, it looks colder, but more sun.

I am sure this is all worth it and will be for many years to come. But the road to rattlesnake has been bumpy (or wavy).

tis · 10-23-2007, 05:36 PM

Oh, Webb, I can feel for you. Why is eveything SO difficult today. Anyone who does a lot knows how hard things are. Keep you chin up, don't get discouraged, and you will get it all solved. You just have to work hard for it. You would think it would be easy to do something like buy insurance and pass papers on a house.

Webbsatwinni · 10-24-2007, 02:39 PM

It will be worth it, having purchased other houses, this one seems to be particularly difficult. But it is waterfront and therefore will be more than worth the wait.

Rattlesnake Guy · 10-24-2007, 08:12 PM

Tough time of the year to close. This site can try to keep you distracted while waiting for the ice to yield.

We have had two closings from hell on houses.

The first one the buyer told the lawyer at the end of the closing that she had changed her name the week before. We waited two hours for the paperwork to be redone and to close again.

The second, we got to the end of the closing and were informed that the bank had not decided if they would let the seller sell the house for the amount agreed to. We waited 3 hours at the table for the bank to decide.

You will soon forget the hassles you are going through but just keep thinking of the many days and years of fun and great memories you are in for.

Webbsatwinni · 11-05-2007, 02:43 PM

It finally went though and we have a house on Rattlesnake, thanks to all for the help provided during this purchase and I hope I can return the favor someday.

Rattlesnake Guy · 11-05-2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

It finally went though and we have a house on Rattlesnake, thanks to all for the help provided during this purchase and I hope I can return the favor someday.

Congratulations Neighbor.

Flylady · 11-05-2007, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

It finally went though and we have a house on Rattlesnake, thanks to all for the help provided during this purchase and I hope I can return the favor someday.

I know we have all been watching your saga, and I for one am glad to hear you stuck it out! I am sure you will have no regrets and just remember, spring is only 5 month away!!!

AC2717 · 10-04-2007, 08:27 AM

Hi,
Have to be careful on this one here. The appraisers are sent out by the lenders and work for them essentially. It is a way to justify the amount of the loan. In most cases these numbers can be inflated. A lot of times it works in your favor when obtaining a equity loan or a 2nd mortgage, but when it is for a purchase it can hurt you. This is one of the major reason for the fall in the real estate market over inflation of appraisal values in order to obtain homes for buyers that have an over inflated price tag. A multitude of appraisal companies nationwide are being investigated by the Fed Gov. as a result. (this is the stuff you do not hear about on the new just that the market is terrible).

As people have reccommed here I would shop around maybe both insurance agents and a new lender, but it is clear to me the lender is the problem as their appraised amount is not a required limit of insurance needed in order to obtain the mortgage, as long as the bldg is properly insured then it is legal. There has got to be a special market for island homes in this area, there are to many in this area to not be. Best bet contact the real estate agent they have to know of a market, the insurance agent, if they do not have a special market, will not really tell you of one because they might want to gain your business and keep it in their agency. Not all are this way though and do not want to be blamed for stereo typing here.

Problem here insurance RC is more in tune, not saying correct, with rebuilding costs and the construction industry as they deal with it on a daily basis with losses. The lender is more in tune, again not saying correct, with the real estate market and buying and selling properties not rebuilding them or building them. That is why they hire appraisers.

If you want, and I am sure the forum might be getting sick of my long Windiness Private message me and we can chat more. I wish I could help you out with a insurance carrier but my knowledge does not reach past MA and some main-land NH areas.

10-04-2007, 08:23 AM	#3
Lakegeezer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 1,678 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 354 Thanked 639 Times in 290 Posts	Building prices Its amazing how much it costs to rebuild these days. It is unlikely you can build on an island for less than $150 per square foot, and it could easily be much more. $200K for replacement means a maximum of 1300 sqare feet. What size are you looking to insure? Just a thought, but can you take out a home equity loan on your primary house to pay for the island home, then reduce the coverage? Risky, but more affordable. __________________ -lg

10-04-2007, 01:29 PM	#6
Island Dweller Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Island Insurance Obtaining Island insurance is definitely one of the more aggravating ordeals but don't let it take away from your enjoyment of your new vacation home. Did you find that companies wouldn't give you insurance because of the fact it was on an island, or because of your heating source? Again, I recommend giving Allstate a call. I already had boat & snow mobile insurance through them and I even changed my primary NH residence to Allstate because of the money savings. As I mentioned earlier, just adding a few heat strips in the home (it's a log home) qualified me for their homeowners insurance with a huge savings over what I was paying through Avery, so it was a no-brainer. I do remember being told that there was something new in NH insurance policies where as the company had to pay replacement value no matter what the total cost is, and now there are specific dollar amounts on the policies.(as of October 2007).

10-04-2007, 04:22 PM	#8
oliviernh Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hampton and Rattlesnake Island Posts: 33 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	I too had the problem... When we were building on Rattlesnake in 2005 we couldn't find anyone to insure the property...including Avery. Finally I connected with Codeman and he set me up with Mike Bertelone at Farm Family Insurance. Once I talked to him it was NO PROBLEM...For around $600 per year!!! Call Mike at 223-6686 and you won't have a problem.

10-17-2007, 02:15 PM	#12
Webbsatwinni Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007 Posts: 610 Thanks: 180 Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts	Only two more days I just wanted to take a minute and thank everyone for their great advice and assistance. We are all set to close on the 19th and I owe a big part of that to the forum. Thanks again and join us in hoping for good (or so so) weather on Friday for the closing walk though and the boat ride out there.

10-17-2007, 07:07 PM	#14
Alton Bay Bob Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	congratulations Congrats on being the newest home owner on the lake. I was mesmerized reading through the posts... Your fortitude and the great help of everyone on this forum helped make it possible. You will find the same great folks will give you advice on any questions. You have found the best spot in the world for advice and help. I also think you found the best part of the lake... So when are you going to invite all us landlubbers to the famous Rattlesnake Island for a small intimate party?

10-03-2007, 05:09 PM	#1
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	Sounds like the lender is the problem for requiring you to have more insurance than you need. An island lot is usually worth least half of the property value. Hang in there, trust me that it will be worth the hassle when you get done. We have used Paul Turner Liberty Insurance Farmington NH 03835 603-755-3511 They used Phoenix Mutual Some numbers if it helps. We have a $1000 deductible Dwelling $150K Other Structures $15K Personal Property $75K Loss of use 30K Personal Liability $500K Medical $5K each Annual premium under $500 bucks. I never tried to get 100% of the retail value and my lender did not ask for it. One step at a time. You can do it.

10-04-2007, 08:15 AM	#2
Webbsatwinni Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007 Posts: 610 Thanks: 180 Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts	Thanks RG The issue seems to be that the appraiser feels that it would take more than 1/2 of the appraised value to rebuild. We have gone back to her, but they will not adjust it. We are hanging in and it will be worth it!

10-04-2007, 08:30 AM	#4
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,496 Thanks: 221 Thanked 812 Times in 488 Posts	That sounds ridiculous. We pay $750 a year on ours and have an estimated replacement cost of $330k, and that is on a log home which is usually more expensive than stick built. We did find that a few insurers wanted to put enough coverage on it to cover the land value as well, rather silly being that even if the house burns down the land still remains. Our bank certainly did not require this.

10-04-2007, 02:41 PM	#7
Webbsatwinni Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007 Posts: 610 Thanks: 180 Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts	Island Dweller You are correct, if we did this in September, there would have been no issue. If the mortgage we are going for is less than the house only replacement number the appraiser puts on it, you still need the 100% replacement number. There was a large insurance company that said no, but when I told the mortgage broker that if we could not find the insurance, we were done and not moving ahead. He made some calls to friends and that company called me and they are back at the table. Still trying and can't wait to get this behind us. Thanks to all!

10-05-2007, 11:29 AM	#10
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	Insuring a home for full loan value is crazy. Even if your home burns to the ground, you still have the lot, the foundation, basement, (if you have one) septic system, fresh water source. The home itself is only required to be insured to 80% of rebuilding costs. If you insure for less, they may not pay off in case of a loss.

10-06-2007, 04:09 PM	#11
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	You can see why the insurance company would not want to make your place more valuable burnt to the ground than standing by over insuring. Reminds me of when my employer wanted to insure key employees for the companies benefit. I declined over fear it would make it harder for me to get insurance as I would be considered over insured.

10-23-2007, 02:15 PM	#16
Webbsatwinni Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007 Posts: 610 Thanks: 180 Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts	And the closing was delayed! First, we went with Allstate, best coverage and the best annual premium we could find. Then the next part, we got to the closing (after towing the bow for a few hours) only to find an issue with the title, there was an undisclosed private mortgage that was never removed. We turned around and went home (towing again). The paperwork is now complete and we are trying again for this Friday, it looks colder, but more sun. I am sure this is all worth it and will be for many years to come. But the road to rattlesnake has been bumpy (or wavy).

10-23-2007, 05:36 PM	#17
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,727 Thanks: 752 Thanked 1,457 Times in 1,014 Posts	Oh, Webb, I can feel for you. Why is eveything SO difficult today. Anyone who does a lot knows how hard things are. Keep you chin up, don't get discouraged, and you will get it all solved. You just have to work hard for it. You would think it would be easy to do something like buy insurance and pass papers on a house.

10-24-2007, 02:39 PM	#18
Webbsatwinni Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007 Posts: 610 Thanks: 180 Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts	It will be worth it, having purchased other houses, this one seems to be particularly difficult. But it is waterfront and therefore will be more than worth the wait.

10-24-2007, 08:12 PM	#19
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	Tough time of the year to close. This site can try to keep you distracted while waiting for the ice to yield. We have had two closings from hell on houses. The first one the buyer told the lawyer at the end of the closing that she had changed her name the week before. We waited two hours for the paperwork to be redone and to close again. The second, we got to the end of the closing and were informed that the bank had not decided if they would let the seller sell the house for the amount agreed to. We waited 3 hours at the table for the bank to decide. You will soon forget the hassles you are going through but just keep thinking of the many days and years of fun and great memories you are in for.

11-05-2007, 02:43 PM	#20
Webbsatwinni Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007 Posts: 610 Thanks: 180 Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts	It finally went though and we have a house on Rattlesnake, thanks to all for the help provided during this purchase and I hope I can return the favor someday.

10-04-2007, 08:27 AM	#23
AC2717 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maynard, MA & Paugus Bay Posts: 2,575 Thanks: 753 Thanked 354 Times in 266 Posts	Appraisal replacement cost Hi, Have to be careful on this one here. The appraisers are sent out by the lenders and work for them essentially. It is a way to justify the amount of the loan. In most cases these numbers can be inflated. A lot of times it works in your favor when obtaining a equity loan or a 2nd mortgage, but when it is for a purchase it can hurt you. This is one of the major reason for the fall in the real estate market over inflation of appraisal values in order to obtain homes for buyers that have an over inflated price tag. A multitude of appraisal companies nationwide are being investigated by the Fed Gov. as a result. (this is the stuff you do not hear about on the new just that the market is terrible). As people have reccommed here I would shop around maybe both insurance agents and a new lender, but it is clear to me the lender is the problem as their appraised amount is not a required limit of insurance needed in order to obtain the mortgage, as long as the bldg is properly insured then it is legal. There has got to be a special market for island homes in this area, there are to many in this area to not be. Best bet contact the real estate agent they have to know of a market, the insurance agent, if they do not have a special market, will not really tell you of one because they might want to gain your business and keep it in their agency. Not all are this way though and do not want to be blamed for stereo typing here. Problem here insurance RC is more in tune, not saying correct, with rebuilding costs and the construction industry as they deal with it on a daily basis with losses. The lender is more in tune, again not saying correct, with the real estate market and buying and selling properties not rebuilding them or building them. That is why they hire appraisers. If you want, and I am sure the forum might be getting sick of my long Windiness Private message me and we can chat more. I wish I could help you out with a insurance carrier but my knowledge does not reach past MA and some main-land NH areas.