How is this safe?

Rattlesnake Guy · 10-20-2007, 10:58 PM

As the days get shorter and shorter as does our final grip on the season I was again reminded of a ridiculous safety issue.

Friday night we were coming out to the island and it was a bit foggy and light drizzle. We had the GPS on just to be sure we stayed as safe as possible.

We came out of Alton bay and I could not find the marker light where it should have been. Then I could not find the one on ship/moose. Likewise Parker. These old friends that keep me from having the misfortune of eating my windshield were dark.

On Saturday I checked and sure enough, the lights have been removed for the winter. The weather was almost 70 degrees last night. I was not the only boat out last night or tonight.

What the heck is the big hurry to get the lights out of the water? Is safety for folks in October less than September? Don't we have another 10+ weeks before ice? Tourism is the biggest industry in NH, do we literally have to turn the lights out before the game is over? Solar lights......

GWC... · 10-20-2007, 11:12 PM

MP only has so many hands and therefore can only pull so many buoys a day.

They have to start sometime and somewhere...

Lucky you...

secondcurve · 10-21-2007, 06:52 AM

Rattlesnake Guy:

I think you have to consider the state employees who take in the markers for the season. Could it be that they don't want to be doing this task in unsafe conditions late in the year or perhaps it is the cost the state would incurr to keep Marine Patrol fully staffed at a time when most boaters have their boats stored? I think that folks who want to push the edges of the season, like yourself, are on your own at this time of the year, 70 degree weather or not. Fortunately, you seem to understand this as your boat is equipped with a GPS. Be careful out there.

SAMIAM · 10-21-2007, 07:35 AM

Sniff,sniff....I feel so sorry for those poor state employee's.Imagine having to go out when it's cold to protect the public.They're probably all tired out anyway from lobbying for more and bigger retirement benefits/sick days/state cars/health insurance.I realize that police,firefighters,D.O.T. NH Co-op,phone,cable and others have to provide service durring inclement weather but the MP folks are pretty much conditioned to cruising in the sunshine.
Seriously.......it's going to be well into the 70's this weekend and I'd hate to be the safety director if someone gets killed running up on the rocks.

camp guy · 10-21-2007, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Sniff,sniff....I feel so sorry for those poor state employee's.Imagine having to go out when it's cold to protect the public.

I have to agree with SAMIAM on this. How many lights have to be brought in and how much is involved? I don't think the trade-off between weather conditions and safety is appropriate. The boating season goes through October, at least, and into early November, so the markers and lights ought to be maintained through the season.

Paugus Bay Resident · 10-21-2007, 08:23 AM

I always thought that they started to come out after the Mount's last cruise (31st). Anyway, time to go boating

I'll keep my eye out for missing markers.

Kamper · 10-21-2007, 11:17 AM

You should think of navaids and other technology as safety enhancements. Bouys can sink or be moved by weather or accident. Obviously, you were prepared, and aware enough of your surroundings, to recognise where you were without the beacon so the surprise didnt end your voyage.

Not to denigrate the modern gadgetry but judgement and caution have probably contributed more to safe and pleasant voyages than all the batteries and LCD's in the world.

Bon voyage!

secondcurve · 10-21-2007, 03:18 PM

It was such a beautiful day today that I went to the beach with the family to go swiming. Unfortuntely, we were unable to go for our swim because there were no life guards present. We then broke out the rackets and headed for the municipal tennis courts and again my family's plans were dashed as the state workers had taken in the nets for the winter. Don't they know it was 74
degrees today?

All kidding aside, I think many people who complain about state government being too large, and it is, always expect their individual needs to be met. In my opinion, the boating season (and most other summer time activities) is over on or about October 15th, regardless of the weather.

Rattlesnake Guy · 10-21-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondcurve

All kidding aside, I think many people who complain about state government being too large, and it is, always expect their individual needs to be met. In my opinion, the boating season (and most other summer time activities) is over on or about October 15th, regardless of the weather.

Perhaps it takes bigger government and cost more to remove them in November than in October, but I can't figure out why. If this is true than I would suggest they don't put the lights in at all if it would make the government smaller. It is my goal in life to need the government as little as possible while paying as many taxes as my income requires.

fatlazyless · 10-22-2007, 04:32 AM

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but isn't 2007 the first year that the startup of daylight savings time gets pushed back two weeks, or something, by federal law. What with the new longer afternoon hours of daylight, and new warmer weather like today's Oct 22 prediction for sunny and 70's, yikes!, maybe the Marine Patrol would consider delaying removal, or something?

Don't know if the MP have a public email address but they do have office hours of 8-5, M-F, at the Glendale docks in Gilford by the big lake. Anyone can go chitchat them up on the flasher buoys. I know Fl-3 is still out there and flashing away....blink, blink, blink.

lakershaker · 10-22-2007, 08:12 AM

Marine Patrol has a small full-time maintance staff, who handle a large assortment of tasks. In addition to removing nav aides, they need to winterize and store all of the NHMP boats before temps really drop, and that takes time. Like many have mentioned, this weather is unseasonable warm, but there is no way of knowing that in advance.

Like Secondcurve said, most people consider Columbus Weekend the end of the boating season, so it is a logical time to start to prepare for the winter...

islandAl · 10-22-2007, 09:06 AM

Okay, we are not in the majority, but there are quite a few of us that boat into November and would benefit form later removal of the FL nav aids.
Perhaps they can start maintenance on some of the boats but I'm sure that a couple could be left to the middle of November and use them for the removal.
Would make things just a little easier some those of us on islands where we require the boats to enjoy our property.

Island-Ho · 10-22-2007, 11:34 AM

I think that anyone boating this time of year should know the routes like the back of their hand, lights or no lights. Granted, they are nice to have and make night navigation easier, but I never count on them working or being visible due to fog, rain, battery failure etc. It's pretty obvious that it takes quite a few days to remove all those lights with limited resources, and Marine Patrol has always begun the process after Columbus Day weekend. It can get pretty nasty out there at this time of year, but you never can predict. Did you notice that they don't pull the newer light bouys, but unbolt the lights from them? Sad to see the season come to a close, but we closed up the island cottage this weekend.

Airwaves · 10-22-2007, 12:46 PM

If folks who boat late into the season, or start their season very early are that concerned I would suggest contacting the Director and asking him to create a page on the MP web site that could be updated every couple of days, telling boaters where and when AToNs are removed in the fall or are missing during the season.

They already have a website, all it would take is a few minutes every couple of days to update it with the needed information when crews are working then you will know what's still out there and what has been removed for the season.

robmac · 10-22-2007, 01:21 PM

very sad day today,got the boat winterized and put it in the garage for the winter. just can't seem to get much else done with the temps in the upper 70's low 80's

LIforrelaxin · 10-22-2007, 04:11 PM

Well I read through this thread I was glad to see I am not the only one that thinks the lighted markers have dissappeared early this year. I can see two from my camp and was very surprised while out for a paddle that I saw milk jugs (or some such device) in thier place. These Aids should be left in until the end of Oct. at a minimum. IMHO..... As for the ability of the Marine Patrol full timers to handle both the boats and the lighted markers... come on.... After Labor day they can start pulling and winterizing some of the boats....easpically all the light duty crafts..... so that by the time the end of Oct. rolls around all they have are a hand full of boats and the markers to worry about. I think at issue here is that there is poor planning and an unwillingness to put up with the discomforts of the job late in the year. This is a safety issue and THAT IS THEIR JOB....

Skip · 10-22-2007, 04:35 PM

Just out of curiosity.

How many of you folks took just a moment to call the NHMP at their New Hamsphire in-state or toll free number, or e-mailed them to express your concerns and give them a chance to explain their position before making your opinions known here?

By the way, I already know the contact numbers for the NHMP but by simply googling in " New Hampshire Marine Patrol" I was instantly taken to their contact page.

For those of you not interesting in googling, please feel free to locate that information HERE.

I guess I just don't understand why it is so easy to attack a person or an agency without first giving that same individual or entity a chance to explain their respective position. Especially given how easy it is to contact most anyone nowadays given our access to so much information technology.

Its truly sad that some (I truly hesitate to say "so many of us") have walked so far away from the concept of respect that was instilled in the generations that came before us.

Maybe one of you will prove me wrong, take the time to contact the NHMP with the sources I have provided and come back and educate all of us on the actual reasons, good-bad-or indifferent, that the markers in question have been removed.

Thanks.....

Captain Zipper · 10-22-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondcurve

We then broke out the rackets and headed for the municipal tennis courts and again my family's plans were dashed as the state workers had taken in the nets for the winter.

I wish our town had taken in the nets. (I have a hard time getting the ball over them.)

LIforrelaxin · 10-22-2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

Just out of curiosity.

How many of you folks took just a moment to call the NHMP at their New Hamsphire in-state or toll free number, or e-mailed them to express your concerns and give them a chance to explain their position before making your opinions known here?

Alright Skip I have to admit you are correct..... even though I am already one that has posted on this matter in a negative light.... I just get fustrated and jump to conclusions to easily sometime.... However I do like to take all the information in that I can on issues..... So I have sent a note to the Marine Patrol to find out if they started removing the markers earlier then normal this year. As well I asked for any information they could provide as too the normal plan of record as to when the lighted markers should be availble both before and after the summer boating season. I will let people know what I find out....

Skip · 10-23-2007, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

..So I have sent a note to the Marine Patrol to find out if they started removing the markers earlier then normal this year. As well I asked for any information they could provide as too the normal plan of record as to when the lighted markers should be availble both before and after the summer boating season. I will let people know what I find out....

Excellent!

I appreciate your effort and look forward to the response you get from the NHMP. My curiosity is also aroused about this particular issue.

SIKSUKR · 10-23-2007, 10:12 AM

Do they remove only the flashing nav-aids?The markers are left in all winter right?

Weirs guy · 10-23-2007, 11:22 AM

Operating under the "Columbus day is the end of the season, again, after Labor day was the, err..." theory its not a bad time to take them out. I guess I understand the issue, but what about the guy who was out in his boat last Christmas day? Does he not deserve to be safe as well?

Excalibur · 10-23-2007, 11:49 AM

I called the Marine Patrol one Saturday afternoon in the fall last year to report a partially submerged jet ski. I recieved a recording, then was forwarded to another number and left a message with the state police.

It seems they do not patrol this time of year also. I believe they have a on call boat.

I have not asked them for there Fall patrol hours on the lake, but they seem to be closed for the season.

So be prepared if your going out this late in the season. The local police or fire might be a better call to make

JPC · 10-23-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

what about the guy who was out in his boat last Christmas day? Does he not deserve to be safe as well?

Yes, he deserves to be safe! Safe and warm at the kitchen table enjoying a hot cup of coffee. Or a Dunkin Dognuts:laugh! If a person knows that the flashing lights have been removed and still want to go out at night then he must accept the risk and consequences.

LIforrelaxin · 10-23-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Do they remove only the flashing nav-aids?The markers are left in all winter right?

As far as I know it is only the Flashing Nav-aids that get removed. The Spar markers are left in all winter.... And when you think of it there are so many red and black Spar that it would take an unbelievable amount of hours to remove them all.... As opposed to the much smaller number of Flashing Nav-aids.... plus the cost of the lighted markers I am sure is drastically more.

What I have noticed in the spring is the MP work barge moving some of the Spar markers back into postion around the lake.

Kamper · 10-23-2007, 02:09 PM

Those lighted spars are pretty expensive. In the winter, after ice-in, they are much more exposed to random vandalism as well as being hit by vehicles. You'll occasionally see half a spar anyway. Their batteries only have a life-span of about a year anyway.

My expectation is that damaged nav-aids will not be immediatly replaced due to budget and inventory constraints. By taking them in for service during the period of diminished need, the MP maintenance crews are able to improve the safety of a greater number of people in the long run.

tis · 10-23-2007, 05:39 PM

They remove the no wake signs too, and it seems to me the normal time is Columbus week or the week after.

Misty Blue · 10-23-2007, 08:05 PM

Is Columbus day a reasonable date for ATON removal? In my mind yes. We went out to dinner in the old Misty last Sunday night and were pleasently suprised to have the lights between Center Harbor and Long Island still in service. But I did not extect it.

After Columbus day I expect the lighted ATONs to be out. Just as I expect there to be a delay for NHMP or marina services. The season, although we may not want to admit or accept it, is over. If you'r sailing at this time of year you had better accept that you are more or less on your own.

I like Airwaves idea of a spot on the NHMP website for ATON outages. I never go on the blue water without checking the latest Local Notice to Mariners. It would be an easy thing to keep up, serve as a goal for the NHMP to maintain a "ZERO OUTAGE" status and possibly help with liability issues.

When all is said and done I have to admit that the NHMP does an excellent job in maintaining the THOUSANDS of ATONs in the states waters. The job is huge and they deserve our respect and thanks for a job well done.

Misty Blue.

Mee-n-Mac · 10-27-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur

I called the Marine Patrol one Saturday afternoon in the fall last year to report a partially submerged jet ski. I recieved a recording, then was forwarded to another number and left a message with the state police.

It seems they do not patrol this time of year also. I believe they have a on call boat.

I have not asked them for there Fall patrol hours on the lake, but they seem to be closed for the season.

So be prepared if your going out this late in the season. The local police or fire might be a better call to make

I have to say I didn't see a single MP boat this last weekend. I also note that while the flasher for #23 has been removed, it's orange buoy is still there and the black tipped marker normally next to it is MIA.

LIforrelaxin · 10-29-2007, 06:15 PM

Well here is th response I got back from the Marine Patrol.

Quote:

Sir/Ms,

The light buoys and the signage, is normally removed from all lakes on Columbus Day. This is dependent on weather, it may be after that date by a few days. As for the installation in the Spring, all the navigational aids State wide are to be installed by Memorial Day.

Dispatcher Beach
NH Marine Patrol

It appears the use Columbus day as the marker in the fall, and Memorial Day in the Spring. Of course they always seemed to have the ATONs in before Memorial Day. Now that doesn't mean one has to agree with and be alright with this, but this is the Plan of Record for the Marine Patrol. Personally I think it should be the end of Oct. but I suppose in the grand scheme of things what is a few weeks.....

Rattlesnake Guy · 10-29-2007, 07:23 PM

Thanks for taking the time to ask the question Sir/Ms. It is nice that they have cleared up the confusion on this issue for us.

Seriously, thanks for trying.

fatlazyless · 10-29-2007, 07:59 PM

Probably, fl-3 is among the last flashers left out on the lake as an accomodation for the Mount. It's still blinkn' away. Saw the Doris E and Sophe C pass by this afternoon on what's their last run from the Weirs to Centre Harbor for their winter layup. How do I know? The expression on the pilots' faces had that 'last run of the season' look about it. You know what I mean....like now it's six months of playing bingo at Funspot before this boat is recommissioned.......waaaaa!

Skip · 10-30-2007, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

...Well here is th response I got back from the Marine Patrol...

Thank you for taking a moment and getting/sharing the answer with us.

Perhaps you have also encouraged all of us to take a moment and make an inquiry with the folks at NHMP next time we have a question.

Great job!

Skip

Rattlesnake Guy · 10-30-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

Thank you for taking a moment and getting/sharing the answer with us.

Perhaps you have also encouraged all of us to take a moment and make an inquiry with the folks at NHMP next time we have a question.

Great job!

Skip

Skip,
With all due respect, do you think this answer was an answer to the question? I don't think we were curious of when they take them out, we were interested in why they come out before the end of the season for many boaters? I understand why they want to clean things up at the end of the season before the staff is gone. Glad they can leave the red and black markers out for the entire season. I really don't think the MP took advantage of the opportunity you offered them.

As you suggest, I have not asked LIForrelaxin what his question was so I will ask the MP the question again and post both the question and answer here when I get one.

Thanks

Skip · 10-31-2007, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

...Skip,
With all due respect, do you think this answer was an answer to the question?...

Hi RG,

Yes, I think LI received the response he was looking for given the question he posed to the NHMP: "...So I have sent a note to the Marine Patrol to find out if they started removing the markers earlier then normal this year. As well I asked for any information they could provide as too the normal plan of record as to when the lighted markers should be availble both before and after the summer boating season..."

It appears that your (and a number of others) understandable concern of why the markers are removed by that date and not later in the season is a second but just as important inquiry.

Remember, you are dealing with a government entity. Personnel are trained to only answer the question as posed, and then only if they have authority to do so. The lower you make your contact on the organizational ladder the less chance you have of an employee expanding on a response.

You pose an excellent question. I do hope you contact the NHMP direct and share your response with all. I do believe that your particular question will require the response of a supervisor, someone like Lt. Tim Dunleavy or you may be referred directly to the Director's Office.

I saluted LI for taking the effort and posing his question directly to the agency, then sharing the information gathered.

Hopefully he has started a trend!

LIforrelaxin · 10-31-2007, 11:22 AM

My initial idea behind my letter was to look at just what the policy is concerning the ATONs from the Marine Patrol. And they did answer that. We now know what the Plan of record is as far as the Marine Patrol is concerned.

Now that that basic information is known and understood, it is time to ask the bigger question of why Columbus Day is the marker in the fall for removing the ATONs. But this now instead of just being a request for answer can also be brought to the Marine Patrol as a request for consideration on changing there Plan of record. And it sounds as though Rattlesnake Guy has already or is planning to do so.

In short the expectations of my first letter where meet as I expected. I find that trying not to put to much in a letter like that is better, because as Skip pointed out the people responding are not always those making the decisions, and therefore only know what information is passed on to them. In the past I have found that a letter to get the back ground, and then a second letter trying to get into specifics work better. When I have put to much detail into and have asked for to many specific answers I find that I either do not get response, or the response I get is lack luster.....

Rattlesnake Guy · 10-31-2007, 08:37 PM

All good points. I am thrilled we can have this conversation without any of us acting like fools. Thank you for your part in that.

I sent my polite email using the link that skip provided earlier and it was returned as undeliverable. Considering the lack of an actual goal for change on my part, perhaps I should not play the next hand.

I am glad to hear that the question was limited and that you shared that the response was appropriate. Knowledge is a powerful thing. Thank you for advancing it.

10-20-2007, 10:58 PM	#1
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	How is this safe? As the days get shorter and shorter as does our final grip on the season I was again reminded of a ridiculous safety issue. Friday night we were coming out to the island and it was a bit foggy and light drizzle. We had the GPS on just to be sure we stayed as safe as possible. We came out of Alton bay and I could not find the marker light where it should have been. Then I could not find the one on ship/moose. Likewise Parker. These old friends that keep me from having the misfortune of eating my windshield were dark. On Saturday I checked and sure enough, the lights have been removed for the winter. The weather was almost 70 degrees last night. I was not the only boat out last night or tonight. What the heck is the big hurry to get the lights out of the water? Is safety for folks in October less than September? Don't we have another 10+ weeks before ice? Tourism is the biggest industry in NH, do we literally have to turn the lights out before the game is over? Solar lights......

10-22-2007, 08:12 AM	#11
lakershaker Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Rattlesnake Isl. - Simsbury, CT Posts: 274 Thanks: 91 Thanked 46 Times in 28 Posts	Lighting Marine Patrol has a small full-time maintance staff, who handle a large assortment of tasks. In addition to removing nav aides, they need to winterize and store all of the NHMP boats before temps really drop, and that takes time. Like many have mentioned, this weather is unseasonable warm, but there is no way of knowing that in advance. Like Secondcurve said, most people consider Columbus Weekend the end of the boating season, so it is a logical time to start to prepare for the winter...

10-22-2007, 09:06 AM	#12
islandAl Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mountonboro Posts: 200 Thanks: 12 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	boat into November Okay, we are not in the majority, but there are quite a few of us that boat into November and would benefit form later removal of the FL nav aids. Perhaps they can start maintenance on some of the boats but I'm sure that a couple could be left to the middle of November and use them for the removal. Would make things just a little easier some those of us on islands where we require the boats to enjoy our property.

10-22-2007, 12:46 PM	#14
Airwaves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 1,153 Thanks: 9 Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts	Cheap and effective If folks who boat late into the season, or start their season very early are that concerned I would suggest contacting the Director and asking him to create a page on the MP web site that could be updated every couple of days, telling boaters where and when AToNs are removed in the fall or are missing during the season. They already have a website, all it would take is a few minutes every couple of days to update it with the needed information when crews are working then you will know what's still out there and what has been removed for the season.

10-22-2007, 04:11 PM	#16
LIforrelaxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas, Lake Ray Hubbard and NH, Long Island Winnipesaukee Posts: 2,867 Thanks: 1,037 Thanked 892 Times in 524 Posts	Interesting Well I read through this thread I was glad to see I am not the only one that thinks the lighted markers have dissappeared early this year. I can see two from my camp and was very surprised while out for a paddle that I saw milk jugs (or some such device) in thier place. These Aids should be left in until the end of Oct. at a minimum. IMHO..... As for the ability of the Marine Patrol full timers to handle both the boats and the lighted markers... come on.... After Labor day they can start pulling and winterizing some of the boats....easpically all the light duty crafts..... so that by the time the end of Oct. rolls around all they have are a hand full of boats and the markers to worry about. I think at issue here is that there is poor planning and an unwillingness to put up with the discomforts of the job late in the year. This is a safety issue and THAT IS THEIR JOB.... __________________ Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....

10-20-2007, 11:12 PM	#2
GWC... Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,325 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	MP only has so many hands and therefore can only pull so many buoys a day. They have to start sometime and somewhere... Lucky you... __________________ [Assume funny, clever sig is here. Laugh and reflect... ]

10-21-2007, 06:52 AM	#3
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,117 Thanks: 1,325 Thanked 559 Times in 288 Posts	Rattlesnake Guy: I think you have to consider the state employees who take in the markers for the season. Could it be that they don't want to be doing this task in unsafe conditions late in the year or perhaps it is the cost the state would incurr to keep Marine Patrol fully staffed at a time when most boaters have their boats stored? I think that folks who want to push the edges of the season, like yourself, are on your own at this time of the year, 70 degree weather or not. Fortunately, you seem to understand this as your boat is equipped with a GPS. Be careful out there.

10-21-2007, 07:35 AM	#4
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,891 Thanks: 334 Thanked 1,673 Times in 584 Posts	Sniff,sniff....I feel so sorry for those poor state employee's.Imagine having to go out when it's cold to protect the public.They're probably all tired out anyway from lobbying for more and bigger retirement benefits/sick days/state cars/health insurance.I realize that police,firefighters,D.O.T. NH Co-op,phone,cable and others have to provide service durring inclement weather but the MP folks are pretty much conditioned to cruising in the sunshine. Seriously.......it's going to be well into the 70's this weekend and I'd hate to be the safety director if someone gets killed running up on the rocks.

10-21-2007, 08:23 AM	#6
Paugus Bay Resident Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Gilmanton, NH Posts: 754 Thanks: 136 Thanked 93 Times in 51 Posts	I always thought that they started to come out after the Mount's last cruise (31st). Anyway, time to go boating I'll keep my eye out for missing markers.

10-21-2007, 11:17 AM	#7
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,302 Thanks: 67 Thanked 171 Times in 127 Posts	You should think of navaids and other technology as safety enhancements. Bouys can sink or be moved by weather or accident. Obviously, you were prepared, and aware enough of your surroundings, to recognise where you were without the beacon so the surprise didnt end your voyage. Not to denigrate the modern gadgetry but judgement and caution have probably contributed more to safe and pleasant voyages than all the batteries and LCD's in the world. Bon voyage!

10-21-2007, 03:18 PM	#8
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,117 Thanks: 1,325 Thanked 559 Times in 288 Posts	It was such a beautiful day today that I went to the beach with the family to go swiming. Unfortuntely, we were unable to go for our swim because there were no life guards present. We then broke out the rackets and headed for the municipal tennis courts and again my family's plans were dashed as the state workers had taken in the nets for the winter. Don't they know it was 74 degrees today? All kidding aside, I think many people who complain about state government being too large, and it is, always expect their individual needs to be met. In my opinion, the boating season (and most other summer time activities) is over on or about October 15th, regardless of the weather.

10-22-2007, 04:32 AM	#10
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,735 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,006 Times in 734 Posts	Maybe I'm wrong on this, but isn't 2007 the first year that the startup of daylight savings time gets pushed back two weeks, or something, by federal law. What with the new longer afternoon hours of daylight, and new warmer weather like today's Oct 22 prediction for sunny and 70's, yikes!, maybe the Marine Patrol would consider delaying removal, or something? Don't know if the MP have a public email address but they do have office hours of 8-5, M-F, at the Glendale docks in Gilford by the big lake. Anyone can go chitchat them up on the flasher buoys. I know Fl-3 is still out there and flashing away....blink, blink, blink.

10-22-2007, 11:34 AM	#13
Island-Ho Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 176 Thanks: 19 Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts	I think that anyone boating this time of year should know the routes like the back of their hand, lights or no lights. Granted, they are nice to have and make night navigation easier, but I never count on them working or being visible due to fog, rain, battery failure etc. It's pretty obvious that it takes quite a few days to remove all those lights with limited resources, and Marine Patrol has always begun the process after Columbus Day weekend. It can get pretty nasty out there at this time of year, but you never can predict. Did you notice that they don't pull the newer light bouys, but unbolt the lights from them? Sad to see the season come to a close, but we closed up the island cottage this weekend.

10-22-2007, 01:21 PM	#15
robmac Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Nashua,Meredith Posts: 951 Thanks: 213 Thanked 106 Times in 81 Posts	very sad day today,got the boat winterized and put it in the garage for the winter. just can't seem to get much else done with the temps in the upper 70's low 80's

10-22-2007, 04:35 PM	#17
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Anyone check with the source? Just out of curiosity. How many of you folks took just a moment to call the NHMP at their New Hamsphire in-state or toll free number, or e-mailed them to express your concerns and give them a chance to explain their position before making your opinions known here? By the way, I already know the contact numbers for the NHMP but by simply googling in " New Hampshire Marine Patrol" I was instantly taken to their contact page. For those of you not interesting in googling, please feel free to locate that information HERE. I guess I just don't understand why it is so easy to attack a person or an agency without first giving that same individual or entity a chance to explain their respective position. Especially given how easy it is to contact most anyone nowadays given our access to so much information technology. Its truly sad that some (I truly hesitate to say "so many of us") have walked so far away from the concept of respect that was instilled in the generations that came before us. Maybe one of you will prove me wrong, take the time to contact the NHMP with the sources I have provided and come back and educate all of us on the actual reasons, good-bad-or indifferent, that the markers in question have been removed. Thanks.....

10-23-2007, 10:12 AM	#21
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Only Flashing Nav-aids? Do they remove only the flashing nav-aids?The markers are left in all winter right? __________________ SIKSUKR

10-23-2007, 11:22 AM	#22
Weirs guy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Weirs Beach, NH Posts: 1,067 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Operating under the "Columbus day is the end of the season, again, after Labor day was the, err..." theory its not a bad time to take them out. I guess I understand the issue, but what about the guy who was out in his boat last Christmas day? Does he not deserve to be safe as well? __________________ Is it bikeweek yet? Now?

10-23-2007, 11:49 AM	#23
Excalibur Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Gilford,NH is where I would like to be and Southborough, MA is where I have to be Posts: 88 Thanks: 14 Thanked 10 Times in 3 Posts	Calling to make a report I called the Marine Patrol one Saturday afternoon in the fall last year to report a partially submerged jet ski. I recieved a recording, then was forwarded to another number and left a message with the state police. It seems they do not patrol this time of year also. I believe they have a on call boat. I have not asked them for there Fall patrol hours on the lake, but they seem to be closed for the season. So be prepared if your going out this late in the season. The local police or fire might be a better call to make

10-23-2007, 02:09 PM	#26
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,302 Thanks: 67 Thanked 171 Times in 127 Posts	Those lighted spars are pretty expensive. In the winter, after ice-in, they are much more exposed to random vandalism as well as being hit by vehicles. You'll occasionally see half a spar anyway. Their batteries only have a life-span of about a year anyway. My expectation is that damaged nav-aids will not be immediatly replaced due to budget and inventory constraints. By taking them in for service during the period of diminished need, the MP maintenance crews are able to improve the safety of a greater number of people in the long run.

10-23-2007, 05:39 PM	#27
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,699 Thanks: 751 Thanked 1,452 Times in 1,009 Posts	They remove the no wake signs too, and it seems to me the normal time is Columbus week or the week after.

10-23-2007, 08:05 PM	#28
Misty Blue Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 658 Thanks: 121 Thanked 283 Times in 98 Posts	Lights out? Is Columbus day a reasonable date for ATON removal? In my mind yes. We went out to dinner in the old Misty last Sunday night and were pleasently suprised to have the lights between Center Harbor and Long Island still in service. But I did not extect it. After Columbus day I expect the lighted ATONs to be out. Just as I expect there to be a delay for NHMP or marina services. The season, although we may not want to admit or accept it, is over. If you'r sailing at this time of year you had better accept that you are more or less on your own. I like Airwaves idea of a spot on the NHMP website for ATON outages. I never go on the blue water without checking the latest Local Notice to Mariners. It would be an easy thing to keep up, serve as a goal for the NHMP to maintain a "ZERO OUTAGE" status and possibly help with liability issues. When all is said and done I have to admit that the NHMP does an excellent job in maintaining the THOUSANDS of ATONs in the states waters. The job is huge and they deserve our respect and thanks for a job well done. Misty Blue.

10-29-2007, 07:23 PM	#31
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	Thanks for taking the time to ask the question Sir/Ms. It is nice that they have cleared up the confusion on this issue for us. Seriously, thanks for trying.

10-29-2007, 07:59 PM	#32
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,735 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,006 Times in 734 Posts	...fl-3 still on-the-job! Probably, fl-3 is among the last flashers left out on the lake as an accomodation for the Mount. It's still blinkn' away. Saw the Doris E and Sophe C pass by this afternoon on what's their last run from the Weirs to Centre Harbor for their winter layup. How do I know? The expression on the pilots' faces had that 'last run of the season' look about it. You know what I mean....like now it's six months of playing bingo at Funspot before this boat is recommissioned.......waaaaa!

10-31-2007, 11:22 AM	#36
LIforrelaxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas, Lake Ray Hubbard and NH, Long Island Winnipesaukee Posts: 2,867 Thanks: 1,037 Thanked 892 Times in 524 Posts	My initial idea My initial idea behind my letter was to look at just what the policy is concerning the ATONs from the Marine Patrol. And they did answer that. We now know what the Plan of record is as far as the Marine Patrol is concerned. Now that that basic information is known and understood, it is time to ask the bigger question of why Columbus Day is the marker in the fall for removing the ATONs. But this now instead of just being a request for answer can also be brought to the Marine Patrol as a request for consideration on changing there Plan of record. And it sounds as though Rattlesnake Guy has already or is planning to do so. In short the expectations of my first letter where meet as I expected. I find that trying not to put to much in a letter like that is better, because as Skip pointed out the people responding are not always those making the decisions, and therefore only know what information is passed on to them. In the past I have found that a letter to get the back ground, and then a second letter trying to get into specifics work better. When I have put to much detail into and have asked for to many specific answers I find that I either do not get response, or the response I get is lack luster..... __________________ Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....

10-31-2007, 08:37 PM	#37
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	All good points. I am thrilled we can have this conversation without any of us acting like fools. Thank you for your part in that. I sent my polite email using the link that skip provided earlier and it was returned as undeliverable. Considering the lack of an actual goal for change on my part, perhaps I should not play the next hand. I am glad to hear that the question was limited and that you shared that the response was appropriate. Knowledge is a powerful thing. Thank you for advancing it.