Ames Farm Being Sued

fatlazyless · 10-30-2007, 09:37 PM

Something tells me that in two years time the Ames property will all be owned by a developer who will divide it all up into 1/2 acre lots for owners who can afford to build 11rm-3bth-3crgarg- wf w/dock, vacation homes.

Attorney fees, town penalties, and huge local property taxes will just be too much.

And then someone on this forum will reply that replacing the Ames Farm with a new homes subdivision is the 'highest & best use.' Funny how 'highest and best' can turn out to be' highest and worst use.'

Woodsy · 10-31-2007, 11:03 AM

The town is alleging for the past 20 years or so Ames Farm has been operating somehwat illegally...

20 years later the town has a gripe? Who is kidding who?

The Ames family has been very generous to the town of Gilford. They pay an exorbitant amount of taxes, they have donated property etc.. Who cares if he stores boats on his property and hosts fishing tournaments? If thats what it takes to keep the property un developed and as nice as it is, then so be it!

I think the powers that be should tread very carefully... eventually the fight just isn't worth it... If I were Mr. Ames given all this crap, I would sell the property off (both sides) to some big name condo developer, pocket my multi-millions as I drive off laughing into the sunset while flipping my neighbors the finger... and let them wonder what 300+ condos will do to the neighborhood...

In all seriousness, tread lightly and be careful what you wish for. I think the weekend Bass tourney and some noisy boats beats a 300+ condo development hands down. The town should grandfather the existing operation as it is, and just make him get the req'd permits and variances.

Woodsy

jrc · 10-31-2007, 12:00 PM

I've been watching a similar battle in Hollis for the last few years. People built around a shooting club. The club has been there for 40 years but the new neighbors don't like the noise. The neighbors get a lawyer, do some digging. They find that the club might have cut some corners on some permits many years ago. Lo and behold the club is shutdown. Lots of lawyers and courts, it's open again. More lawyers and court and it's closed. Looks like the club is out of money so it will probably stay closed.

I'm oversimplifying this to make a point:

The people with the deeper pockets always win.

BroadHopper · 10-31-2007, 12:06 PM

I remember a battle in Hudson, NH many years ago. A housing development went up next to the Hudson Speedway. The new neighbors wanted to shut down the speedway because of noise, air pollution, traffic. You name it. The judge ruled that the speedway was there first and that the new neighbors knew that the place exists. So they cannot shut down the speedway as it was there first.

Seaplane Pilot · 11-01-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I think the powers that be should tread very carefully... eventually the fight just isn't worth it... If I were Mr. Ames given all this crap, I would sell the property off (both sides) to some big name condo developer, pocket my multi-millions as I drive off laughing into the sunset while flipping my neighbors the finger... and let them wonder what 300+ condos will do to the neighborhood...

Woodsy

I'm with you Woodsy. Ames also owns somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 acres on the south side of Rt. 11. I think he should do exactly as you said - flip off the neighbors and the town, and sell this to some big hotel chain/developer that will put a condo development on the water and up the entire hillside on the 100 acres. Then he can sit back and laugh while watching the outrage of the neighbors and granola crowd who are now angry that yet another lakeside hill has been developed. Gilford claims that this has been going on 20 years, but they sure knew where to send the assessor and the tax bill for the last 20 years. This is truely pathetic.

idigtractors · 11-01-2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I'm with you Woodsy. Ames also owns somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 acres on the south side of Rt. 11. I think he should do exactly as you said - flip off the neighbors and the town, and sell this to some big hotel chain/developer that will put a condo development on the water and up the entire hillside on the 100 acres. Then he can sit back and laugh while watching the outrage of the neighbors and granola crowd who are now angry that yet another lakeside hill has been developed. Gilford claims that this has been going on 20 years, but they sure knew where to send the assessor and the tax bill for the last 20 years. This is truely pathetic.

That all sounds fantastic for the Ames family, but what if the town and state is found to be correct in what they write up and they put fines and/or requests for making things back to the way they were and if the owner doesn't then state and town can stick liens on the property and then "No Sale" and possible cease and desist all activities involved in complaints.

Skip · 11-01-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idigtractors

...but what if...

Wow!

Hey folks...but what if...we all take a breather and before we speculate any further we let the Ames family follow the right to file a response to allegations that may or may not be true?

idigtractors · 11-01-2007, 12:57 PM

That's the best thing said in 30 some odd threads.

Woodsy · 11-01-2007, 01:21 PM

I assume that both sides of the argument have merit. No doubt the town felt they had a strong enough case to bring it court.

My point was be careful what you wish for... you just might get it!

Woodsy

fatlazyless · 11-02-2007, 06:25 AM

Just a reminder that the neighbor/abutter to the Ames Farm is himself an attorney. Opposing an attorney in this type of an argument is very challenging because they have unlimited time, motivation, and intellectual resources to research and pursue their goal with no $200./hour legal bills. For the neighboring attorney abutter, it can become sort of a hobby as they sharpen and practice their legal skils in their own self-effort.

Lake Winnipesaukee has been a happy bass tournament and happy speed boat venue for years, so some type of compromise needs to be worked out by all sides. When you litigate, the lawyers become the 'reel' winner so it's better to work out a solution through a compromise..

Just Sold · 11-02-2007, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I assume that both sides of the argument have merit. No doubt the town felt they had a strong enough case to bring it court.

My point was be careful what you wish for... you just might get it!

Woodsy

Thanks, Woodsy.....This is my point as well.

joe · 11-03-2007, 09:35 AM

ok people i have been reading all of your posts from day 1
i am a direct abutter to this place and for the record i have lived there for over 17 years and what i have seen in that time is a man out of control doing what ever he wants to do inspist of the law. i feel the town has all the right to make him come into compliance just like any one else and please lets not just harp on the bass guys that is just the tip of the ice burg here.

and i am not an lawyer either

Rattlesnake Guy · 11-03-2007, 01:04 PM

Joe,
Whats the rest of the iceberg?

joe · 11-03-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Joe,
Whats the rest of the iceberg?

i think the town has hit the nail on the head with the issue they have raised.
i feel that the ames family with the exception of don are very nice. but don can not continue the way he is going with the blatten disrespect for the town rules and regs.

GWC... · 11-03-2007, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe

i think the town has hit the nail on the head with the issue they have raised.
i feel that the ames family with the exception of don are very nice. but don can not continue the way he is going with the blatten disrespect for the town rules and regs.

Inquiring minds need to know...

How would you feel, Joe, with five hundred condo units spread over the three hundred acres and a quarter mile of shorefront of what is currently referenced as Ames?

joe · 11-04-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWC...

Inquiring minds need to know...

How would you feel, Joe, with five hundred condo units spread over the three hundred acres and a quarter mile of shorefront of what is currently referenced as Ames?

and for this picture it looks so nice but look real close there is nothing going on take that picture in the middle of the summer and lets see the real diffrence and ow ya like i posted before he can do what ever he want with his land but lets not forget why we are here the town has the last word and dont think the town would let you or anyone else build in the wet land the town is only trying to protect the best intrest of the town and lake here for our protection so now what do you think

GWC... · 11-04-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe

and for this picture it looks so nice but look real close there is nothing going on take that picture in the middle of the summer and lets see the real diffrence and ow ya like i posted before he can do what ever he want with his land but lets not forget why we are here the town has the last word and dont think the town would let you or anyone else build in the wet land the town is only trying to protect the best intrest of the town and lake here for our protection so now what do you think

Inquiring minds still need to know...

How would you feel, Joe, with five hundred condo units spread over the three hundred acres and a quarter mile of shorefront of what is currently referenced as Ames?

Skip · 11-04-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe

...lets not forget why we are here the town has the last word...

No Joe, the town does not have the last word. That right is reserved for our judicial system and only after both parties have been allowed due process to make their respective cases.

Let me repeat that Joe, the Ames family have a right to due process.

Mcdude brought forward an important issue that has an impact on the Lakes Region and one of its better known families. It has made us aware of a serious situation and allowed those of us interested to have a means of following this issue as it moves forward. Comments regarding that process and making us aware of new developments in the case are fair and pertinent.

Speculation as to what the family's thought process may have been or outright accusations that laws have been broken when none of us have even seen charges, let alone the results of mediation or a hearing, are what I believe an uneccesary attack made behind the anonymity of the internet.

No Joe, I do not live beside the accused. But if I did and I thought I had a real case I would keep my trap closed and allow the judicial process and the rights of the accused to move forward the way our State & Federal constitution allow.

Why?

Because next time it could be me (or you) and I would hope to expect the same decency from my fellow citizens!

gravy boat · 11-04-2007, 04:21 PM

Fear of condo development should be a non issue. Should we let someone break the law "just in case" they retaliate in some way? That's absurd.

I agree with Mr. V when he said, "The fact that Ames Farm has been around a long time does not, in and of itself, give the current operator(s) a license to run the operation free from government intrusion and regulation".

If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." The law should not be bent for an individual/organization/business because he/they are part of town history, pays high taxes, or a celebrity. The law is the law. If you break it, you pay the price. And if you are caught AFTER breaking it, pay the piper and learn something from the experience.

GB

secondcurve · 11-04-2007, 05:38 PM

Is anyone able to get the court documents that have been filed by the town of Guilford so we can understand how the town feels Ames Farm has violated the law? I believe these are public documents.

joe · 11-03-2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe

ok people i have been reading all of your posts from day 1
i am a direct abutter to this place and for the record i have lived there for over 17 years and what i have seen in that time is a man out of control doing what ever he wants to do inspist of the law. i feel the town has all the right to make him come into compliance just like any one else and please lets not just harp on the bass guys that is just the tip of the ice burg here.

and i am not an lawyer either

a typo on the years lived there 13 years sorry

Weirs guy · 11-05-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe

a typo on the years lived there 13 years sorry

So joe, I have a question I posed earlier that you as an abutter and your other neighbors should be able to answer. I understand that you may or may not be responsible for the current situation, but I've got to ask why is it you have dealt with these alleged violations of the law for 13 years without dealing with them earlier? Was something "to major to overlook" done recently? Did the town drag its feet until forced to act?

Gravy Boat raises the point that "If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." " Which I agree with to a certain extent, that extent being when the enforcement of the law is done only to appease a small portion of the society (abuters) at the expense, in tax dollars, of the entire society.

wifi · 11-05-2007, 02:05 PM

I'm not a lawyer, and not taking one side or the other, BUT two things come to mind:

1) Statute of Limitations
2) Laches

both of which are meant to prevent harassment of one party by another party who "saves up" offenses to be used at a later time, when this extended time period does the most good for the accuser (such as waiting for the only defense witness to die), or does the most harm to the offender (such as waiting for someone to complete unknowingly building a house on your property, before you claim it yours).

joe · 11-05-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

So joe, I have a question I posed earlier that you as an abutter and your other neighbors should be able to answer. I understand that you may or may not be responsible for the current situation, but I've got to ask why is it you have dealt with these alleged violations of the law for 13 years without dealing with them earlier? Was something "to major to overlook" done recently? Did the town drag its feet until forced to act?

Gravy Boat raises the point that "If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." " Which I agree with to a certain extent, that extent being when the enforcement of the law is done only to appease a small portion of the society (abuters) at the expense, in tax dollars, of the entire society.

Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.

LIforrelaxin · 11-05-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe

Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.

This statement seems to contridict itself.... Joe please clarify... If Don was caught routing water onto your land.... Did you catch him? Did you call the building inspector? ..... if either of these is true.... then you most likely the cause of some of this current situation....

On the flip side of this I read through this thread this morning. It seems as though the town is pretty specific as far as what they are going after the Ames' about. But yet at least one poster, listed a couple of handfulls of changes the Ames' made over the years. Sure the business has changed as any business has, but not every change requires permission or permits. And before you post a list of changes trying to show wrong doing, you should find out weather any permission was needed, as well as was the permission applied for and appoved. Don't add fuel to the fire by throwing things out there.

I have no doubt that the Ames' have probably goofed once or twice. But what person or business hasn't. Everyone is after all only human. What needs to be decided here is:

1) did the Ames' knowingly do things without permission, or get denied permission and do them anyways....
2) after they where approached by the town and/or state, have they done everything reasonable to try and correct what they are accused of....

And these things will be decided, as skip stated, by the courts.... sorry to tell everyone here, but the only winners I see here are going to be the lawyers......

joe · 11-05-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

This statement seems to contridict itself.... Joe please clarify... If Don was caught routing water onto your land.... Did you catch him? Did you call the building inspector? ..... if either of these is true.... then you most likely the cause of some of this current situation....

On the flip side of this I read through this thread this morning. It seems as though the town is pretty specific as far as what they are going after the Ames' about. But yet at least one poster, listed a couple of handfulls of changes the Ames' made over the years. Sure the business has changed as any business has, but not every change requires permission or permits. And before you post a list of changes trying to show wrong doing, you should find out weather any permission was needed, as well as was the permission applied for and appoved. Don't add fuel to the fire by throwing things out there.

I have no doubt that the Ames' have probably goofed once or twice. But what person or business hasn't. Everyone is after all only human. What needs to be decided here is:

1) did the Ames' knowingly do things without permission, or get denied permission and do them anyways....
2) after they where approached by the town and/or state, have they done everything reasonable to try and correct what they are accused of....

And these things will be decided, as skip stated, by the courts.... sorry to tell everyone here, but the only winners I see here are going to be the lawyers......

no i didnt on all of the questions.....................................

Rose · 11-05-2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Sure the business has changed as any business has, but not every change requires permission or permits. And before you post a list of changes trying to show wrong doing, you should find out weather any permission was needed, as well as was the permission applied for and appoved. Don't add fuel to the fire by throwing things out there.

I posted the list of changes because someone had posted there hadn't been many changes at The Farm over the past 45 years, which is incorrect. I was not indicating whether or not the changes needed permission. I'm sure some did and some didn't, depending on when the changes were made. Don't put words in my mouth.

It's very easy for people to bandy this topic about when they aren't directly related to the situation. That family and that place is part of my heritage and it's very difficult to see this situation unfold and for people to take a side when they really know nothing about what's going or the individual(s) involved.

fatlazyless · 11-06-2007, 06:55 AM

Paying the Gilford prop tax has got to be the number one issue here. Figuring out a way w/ boat launch fees, hosting bass fishing events, serving a terrific pancake breakfast, and whatever else works is the big issue. How to pay the prop tax bill, every six months?

It's a publc record, so anyone know what the Ames Farm bill looks like? The property tax is the only way that the town has to raise money for a big long list of spending: schools, roads, police, fire, administartion, transfer station, library, salaries, pensions, Belknap County sheriff, jail, & nursing home, and more.. Everything comes from one tax, the property tax.

Recently, the Gilford Police Dept voted to join the Teamster's Union because it would help the police in coexisting with their boss, the town.

So, what union does Ames Farm, the taxpayer who pays all the bills for Gilford, join to help Ames in dealing with the town?

joe · 11-06-2007, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Paying the Gilford prop tax has got to be the number one issue here. Figuring out a way w/ boat launch fees, hosting bass fishing events, serving pancake breafast, and whatever else works is the big issue. How to pay the prop tax bill, every six months?

It's a publc record, so anyone know what the Ames Farm bill looks like? The property tax is the only way that the town has to raise money for a big long list of spending: schools, roads, police, fire, administartion, transfer station, library, salaries, pensions, Belknap County sheriff, jail, & nursing home, and more.. Everything comes from one tax, the property tax.

Recently, the Gilford Polce Dept voted to join the Teamser's Union because it would help the police in coexisting with their boss, the town.

So, what union does Ames Farm, the taxpayer who pays all the bills for Gilford, join to help Ames in dealing with the town?

what dose that statment have to do with not obeying the ruels

fatlazyless · 11-06-2007, 08:08 AM

It has everything to do with it. Making the money to pay the taxes is the reason for the increased commercial activities that you, a neighbor, do not like.

Ames Farm finds it necessary to turn up the volumn on their revenue making acivities because the town has greatly increased their prop tax bill. It's a direct cause and effect situation.

Weirs guy · 11-06-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe

Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.

Thanks Joe, that answers my question that something "too big to overlook" did occur. While I personally HATE the fact that so many permits/rules/ect. exist that constrain what property owners can do on the property they pay for, the rules are pretty clear for wetlands.

If I was in this situation I'd be pretty PO'ed too.

joe · 11-06-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

Thanks Joe, that answers my question that something "too big to overlook" did occur. While I personally HATE the fact that so many permits/rules/ect. exist that constrain what property owners can do on the property they pay for, the rules are pretty clear for wetlands.

If I was in this situation I'd be pretty PO'ed too.

thanks for your understanding

BroadHopper · 10-13-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe

Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.

How about when the developer of Samoset condominiums filled in a dry river bed on the south side of the property to build more condos. One spring, there was so much water running off from from Belknap/Gunstock Mtn that it washed away some of the Samoset properties and the abutters as well. What a mess! My father warned the town but the town figured a dry riverbed is no big deal. To this day, I'd rather deal with a landowner than some high powered developer who will go out of his way to walk all over the neighbors and the town.

Mr. V · 11-01-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I'm with you Woodsy. Ames also owns somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 acres on the south side of Rt. 11. I think he should do exactly as you said - flip off the neighbors and the town, and sell this to some big hotel chain/developer that will put a condo development on the water and up the entire hillside on the 100 acres.

Do you seriously think he hasn't considered doing so?

FWIW, it could be that all this will blow over and a "win-win" situation might result if he responds reasonably to the suit, hires a good lawyer, and agrees to some form of legal compromise.

Maybe.

Had Ames Farm bothered to "do the right thing" in the beginning and attempted to go through the permitting process, none of this drama would be happening.

Then again, perhaps he/they knew that the chosen actions would not be allowed but the decision was made to go ahead anyway: should such chutzpah be permitted?

The fact that Ames Farm has been around a long time does not, in and of itself, give the current operator(s) a license to run the operation free from government intrusion and regulation.

After all, government is no more than "We, the People" taking collective action in a representative capacity.

10-31-2007, 11:03 AM	#2
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	Wow!! The town is alleging for the past 20 years or so Ames Farm has been operating somehwat illegally... 20 years later the town has a gripe? Who is kidding who? The Ames family has been very generous to the town of Gilford. They pay an exorbitant amount of taxes, they have donated property etc.. Who cares if he stores boats on his property and hosts fishing tournaments? If thats what it takes to keep the property un developed and as nice as it is, then so be it! I think the powers that be should tread very carefully... eventually the fight just isn't worth it... If I were Mr. Ames given all this crap, I would sell the property off (both sides) to some big name condo developer, pocket my multi-millions as I drive off laughing into the sunset while flipping my neighbors the finger... and let them wonder what 300+ condos will do to the neighborhood... In all seriousness, tread lightly and be careful what you wish for. I think the weekend Bass tourney and some noisy boats beats a 300+ condo development hands down. The town should grandfather the existing operation as it is, and just make him get the req'd permits and variances. Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

10-31-2007, 12:06 PM	#4
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,589 Thanks: 3,230 Thanked 1,107 Times in 797 Posts	Battle in Hudson I remember a battle in Hudson, NH many years ago. A housing development went up next to the Hudson Speedway. The new neighbors wanted to shut down the speedway because of noise, air pollution, traffic. You name it. The judge ruled that the speedway was there first and that the new neighbors knew that the place exists. So they cannot shut down the speedway as it was there first. __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

11-01-2007, 12:57 PM	#8
idigtractors Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 248 Thanks: 6 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Wow That's the best thing said in 30 some odd threads.

11-01-2007, 01:21 PM	#9
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	I assume that both sides of the argument have merit. No doubt the town felt they had a strong enough case to bring it court. My point was be careful what you wish for... you just might get it! Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

11-04-2007, 04:21 PM	#19
gravy boat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Gilford year round, West Alton summers Posts: 593 Thanks: 601 Thanked 203 Times in 102 Posts	Ames Fear of condo development should be a non issue. Should we let someone break the law "just in case" they retaliate in some way? That's absurd. I agree with Mr. V when he said, "The fact that Ames Farm has been around a long time does not, in and of itself, give the current operator(s) a license to run the operation free from government intrusion and regulation". If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." The law should not be bent for an individual/organization/business because he/they are part of town history, pays high taxes, or a celebrity. The law is the law. If you break it, you pay the price. And if you are caught AFTER breaking it, pay the piper and learn something from the experience. GB

10-30-2007, 09:37 PM	#1
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,787 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,022 Times in 744 Posts	Something tells me that in two years time the Ames property will all be owned by a developer who will divide it all up into 1/2 acre lots for owners who can afford to build 11rm-3bth-3crgarg- wf w/dock, vacation homes. Attorney fees, town penalties, and huge local property taxes will just be too much. And then someone on this forum will reply that replacing the Ames Farm with a new homes subdivision is the 'highest & best use.' Funny how 'highest and best' can turn out to be' highest and worst use.'

10-31-2007, 12:00 PM	#3
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	I've been watching a similar battle in Hollis for the last few years. People built around a shooting club. The club has been there for 40 years but the new neighbors don't like the noise. The neighbors get a lawyer, do some digging. They find that the club might have cut some corners on some permits many years ago. Lo and behold the club is shutdown. Lots of lawyers and courts, it's open again. More lawyers and court and it's closed. Looks like the club is out of money so it will probably stay closed. I'm oversimplifying this to make a point: The people with the deeper pockets always win.

11-02-2007, 06:25 AM	#10
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,787 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,022 Times in 744 Posts	Just a reminder that the neighbor/abutter to the Ames Farm is himself an attorney. Opposing an attorney in this type of an argument is very challenging because they have unlimited time, motivation, and intellectual resources to research and pursue their goal with no $200./hour legal bills. For the neighboring attorney abutter, it can become sort of a hobby as they sharpen and practice their legal skils in their own self-effort. Lake Winnipesaukee has been a happy bass tournament and happy speed boat venue for years, so some type of compromise needs to be worked out by all sides. When you litigate, the lawyers become the 'reel' winner so it's better to work out a solution through a compromise..

11-03-2007, 09:35 AM	#12
joe Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	ok people i have been reading all of your posts from day 1 i am a direct abutter to this place and for the record i have lived there for over 17 years and what i have seen in that time is a man out of control doing what ever he wants to do inspist of the law. i feel the town has all the right to make him come into compliance just like any one else and please lets not just harp on the bass guys that is just the tip of the ice burg here. and i am not an lawyer either

11-03-2007, 01:04 PM	#13
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	Joe, Whats the rest of the iceberg?

11-04-2007, 05:38 PM	#20
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,118 Thanks: 1,331 Thanked 559 Times in 288 Posts	Is anyone able to get the court documents that have been filed by the town of Guilford so we can understand how the town feels Ames Farm has violated the law? I believe these are public documents.

11-05-2007, 02:05 PM	#23
wifi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 1,321 Thanks: 282 Thanked 287 Times in 169 Posts	I'm not a lawyer, and not taking one side or the other, BUT two things come to mind: 1) Statute of Limitations 2) Laches both of which are meant to prevent harassment of one party by another party who "saves up" offenses to be used at a later time, when this extended time period does the most good for the accuser (such as waiting for the only defense witness to die), or does the most harm to the offender (such as waiting for someone to complete unknowingly building a house on your property, before you claim it yours).

11-06-2007, 06:55 AM	#28
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,787 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,022 Times in 744 Posts	...paying the Gilford prop tax? Paying the Gilford prop tax has got to be the number one issue here. Figuring out a way w/ boat launch fees, hosting bass fishing events, serving a terrific pancake breakfast, and whatever else works is the big issue. How to pay the prop tax bill, every six months? It's a publc record, so anyone know what the Ames Farm bill looks like? The property tax is the only way that the town has to raise money for a big long list of spending: schools, roads, police, fire, administartion, transfer station, library, salaries, pensions, Belknap County sheriff, jail, & nursing home, and more.. Everything comes from one tax, the property tax. Recently, the Gilford Police Dept voted to join the Teamster's Union because it would help the police in coexisting with their boss, the town. So, what union does Ames Farm, the taxpayer who pays all the bills for Gilford, join to help Ames in dealing with the town? Last edited by fatlazyless; 11-06-2007 at 09:05 AM.

11-06-2007, 08:08 AM	#30
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,787 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,022 Times in 744 Posts	It has everything to do with it. Making the money to pay the taxes is the reason for the increased commercial activities that you, a neighbor, do not like. Ames Farm finds it necessary to turn up the volumn on their revenue making acivities because the town has greatly increased their prop tax bill. It's a direct cause and effect situation.