Ames Farm Being Sued

[Woodsy]

I assume that both sides of the argument have merit. No doubt the town felt they had a strong enough case to bring it court.

My point was be careful what you wish for... you just might get it!

Woodsy

[fatlazyless]

Just a reminder that the neighbor/abutter to the Ames Farm is himself an attorney. Opposing an attorney in this type of an argument is very challenging because they have unlimited time, motivation, and intellectual resources to research and pursue their goal with no $200./hour legal bills. For the neighboring attorney abutter, it can become sort of a hobby as they sharpen and practice their legal skils in their own self-effort.

Lake Winnipesaukee has been a happy bass tournament and happy speed boat venue for years, so some type of compromise needs to be worked out by all sides. When you litigate, the lawyers become the 'reel' winner so it's better to work out a solution through a compromise..

[Just Sold]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I assume that both sides of the argument have merit. No doubt the town felt they had a strong enough case to bring it court.

My point was be careful what you wish for... you just might get it!

Woodsy

Thanks, Woodsy.....This is my point as well.

[joe]

ok people i have been reading all of your posts from day 1
i am a direct abutter to this place and for the record i have lived there for over 17 years and what i have seen in that time is a man out of control doing what ever he wants to do inspist of the law. i feel the town has all the right to make him come into compliance just like any one else and please lets not just harp on the bass guys that is just the tip of the ice burg here.


and i am not an lawyer either

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Joe,
Whats the rest of the iceberg?

[joe]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Joe,
Whats the rest of the iceberg?

i think the town has hit the nail on the head with the issue they have raised.
i feel that the ames family with the exception of don are very nice. but don can not continue the way he is going with the blatten disrespect for the town rules and regs.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by joe

i think the town has hit the nail on the head with the issue they have raised.
i feel that the ames family with the exception of don are very nice. but don can not continue the way he is going with the blatten disrespect for the town rules and regs.

Inquiring minds need to know...

How would you feel, Joe, with five hundred condo units spread over the three hundred acres and a quarter mile of shorefront of what is currently referenced as Ames?

[joe]

Originally Posted by GWC...

Inquiring minds need to know...

How would you feel, Joe, with five hundred condo units spread over the three hundred acres and a quarter mile of shorefront of what is currently referenced as Ames?

and for this picture it looks so nice but look real close there is nothing going on take that picture in the middle of the summer and lets see the real diffrence and ow ya like i posted before he can do what ever he want with his land but lets not forget why we are here the town has the last word and dont think the town would let you or anyone else build in the wet land the town is only trying to protect the best intrest of the town and lake here for our protection so now what do you think

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by joe

and for this picture it looks so nice but look real close there is nothing going on take that picture in the middle of the summer and lets see the real diffrence and ow ya like i posted before he can do what ever he want with his land but lets not forget why we are here the town has the last word and dont think the town would let you or anyone else build in the wet land the town is only trying to protect the best intrest of the town and lake here for our protection so now what do you think

Inquiring minds still need to know...

How would you feel, Joe, with five hundred condo units spread over the three hundred acres and a quarter mile of shorefront of what is currently referenced as Ames?

[Skip]

Originally Posted by joe

...lets not forget why we are here the town has the last word...

No Joe, the town does not have the last word. That right is reserved for our judicial system and only after both parties have been allowed due process to make their respective cases.

Let me repeat that Joe, the Ames family have a right to due process.

Mcdude brought forward an important issue that has an impact on the Lakes Region and one of its better known families. It has made us aware of a serious situation and allowed those of us interested to have a means of following this issue as it moves forward. Comments regarding that process and making us aware of new developments in the case are fair and pertinent.

Speculation as to what the family's thought process may have been or outright accusations that laws have been broken when none of us have even seen charges, let alone the results of mediation or a hearing, are what I believe an uneccesary attack made behind the anonymity of the internet.

No Joe, I do not live beside the accused. But if I did and I thought I had a real case I would keep my trap closed and allow the judicial process and the rights of the accused to move forward the way our State & Federal constitution allow.

Why?

Because next time it could be me (or you) and I would hope to expect the same decency from my fellow citizens!

[gravy boat]

Fear of condo development should be a non issue. Should we let someone break the law "just in case" they retaliate in some way? That's absurd.

I agree with Mr. V when he said, "The fact that Ames Farm has been around a long time does not, in and of itself, give the current operator(s) a license to run the operation free from government intrusion and regulation".

If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." The law should not be bent for an individual/organization/business because he/they are part of town history, pays high taxes, or a celebrity. The law is the law. If you break it, you pay the price. And if you are caught AFTER breaking it, pay the piper and learn something from the experience.

GB

[secondcurve]

Is anyone able to get the court documents that have been filed by the town of Guilford so we can understand how the town feels Ames Farm has violated the law? I believe these are public documents.

[joe]

Originally Posted by joe

ok people i have been reading all of your posts from day 1
i am a direct abutter to this place and for the record i have lived there for over 17 years and what i have seen in that time is a man out of control doing what ever he wants to do inspist of the law. i feel the town has all the right to make him come into compliance just like any one else and please lets not just harp on the bass guys that is just the tip of the ice burg here.


and i am not an lawyer either

a typo on the years lived there 13 years sorry

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by joe

a typo on the years lived there 13 years sorry

So joe, I have a question I posed earlier that you as an abutter and your other neighbors should be able to answer. I understand that you may or may not be responsible for the current situation, but I've got to ask why is it you have dealt with these alleged violations of the law for 13 years without dealing with them earlier? Was something "to major to overlook" done recently? Did the town drag its feet until forced to act?

Gravy Boat raises the point that "If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." " Which I agree with to a certain extent, that extent being when the enforcement of the law is done only to appease a small portion of the society (abuters) at the expense, in tax dollars, of the entire society.

[wifi]

I'm not a lawyer, and not taking one side or the other, BUT two things come to mind:

1) Statute of Limitations
2) Laches

both of which are meant to prevent harassment of one party by another party who "saves up" offenses to be used at a later time, when this extended time period does the most good for the accuser (such as waiting for the only defense witness to die), or does the most harm to the offender (such as waiting for someone to complete unknowingly building a house on your property, before you claim it yours).

[joe]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

So joe, I have a question I posed earlier that you as an abutter and your other neighbors should be able to answer. I understand that you may or may not be responsible for the current situation, but I've got to ask why is it you have dealt with these alleged violations of the law for 13 years without dealing with them earlier? Was something "to major to overlook" done recently? Did the town drag its feet until forced to act?

Gravy Boat raises the point that "If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." " Which I agree with to a certain extent, that extent being when the enforcement of the law is done only to appease a small portion of the society (abuters) at the expense, in tax dollars, of the entire society.

Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by joe

Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.

This statement seems to contridict itself.... Joe please clarify... If Don was caught routing water onto your land.... Did you catch him? Did you call the building inspector? ..... if either of these is true.... then you most likely the cause of some of this current situation....

On the flip side of this I read through this thread this morning. It seems as though the town is pretty specific as far as what they are going after the Ames' about. But yet at least one poster, listed a couple of handfulls of changes the Ames' made over the years. Sure the business has changed as any business has, but not every change requires permission or permits. And before you post a list of changes trying to show wrong doing, you should find out weather any permission was needed, as well as was the permission applied for and appoved. Don't add fuel to the fire by throwing things out there.

I have no doubt that the Ames' have probably goofed once or twice. But what person or business hasn't. Everyone is after all only human. What needs to be decided here is:

1) did the Ames' knowingly do things without permission, or get denied permission and do them anyways....
2) after they where approached by the town and/or state, have they done everything reasonable to try and correct what they are accused of....

And these things will be decided, as skip stated, by the courts.... sorry to tell everyone here, but the only winners I see here are going to be the lawyers......

[joe]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

This statement seems to contridict itself.... Joe please clarify... If Don was caught routing water onto your land.... Did you catch him? Did you call the building inspector? ..... if either of these is true.... then you most likely the cause of some of this current situation....

On the flip side of this I read through this thread this morning. It seems as though the town is pretty specific as far as what they are going after the Ames' about. But yet at least one poster, listed a couple of handfulls of changes the Ames' made over the years. Sure the business has changed as any business has, but not every change requires permission or permits. And before you post a list of changes trying to show wrong doing, you should find out weather any permission was needed, as well as was the permission applied for and appoved. Don't add fuel to the fire by throwing things out there.

I have no doubt that the Ames' have probably goofed once or twice. But what person or business hasn't. Everyone is after all only human. What needs to be decided here is:

1) did the Ames' knowingly do things without permission, or get denied permission and do them anyways....
2) after they where approached by the town and/or state, have they done everything reasonable to try and correct what they are accused of....

And these things will be decided, as skip stated, by the courts.... sorry to tell everyone here, but the only winners I see here are going to be the lawyers......

no i didnt on all of the questions.....................................

[Rose]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Sure the business has changed as any business has, but not every change requires permission or permits. And before you post a list of changes trying to show wrong doing, you should find out weather any permission was needed, as well as was the permission applied for and appoved. Don't add fuel to the fire by throwing things out there.

I posted the list of changes because someone had posted there hadn't been many changes at The Farm over the past 45 years, which is incorrect. I was not indicating whether or not the changes needed permission. I'm sure some did and some didn't, depending on when the changes were made. Don't put words in my mouth.

It's very easy for people to bandy this topic about when they aren't directly related to the situation. That family and that place is part of my heritage and it's very difficult to see this situation unfold and for people to take a side when they really know nothing about what's going or the individual(s) involved.

[fatlazyless]

Paying the Gilford prop tax has got to be the number one issue here. Figuring out a way w/ boat launch fees, hosting bass fishing events, serving a terrific pancake breakfast, and whatever else works is the big issue. How to pay the prop tax bill, every six months?

It's a publc record, so anyone know what the Ames Farm bill looks like? The property tax is the only way that the town has to raise money for a big long list of spending: schools, roads, police, fire, administartion, transfer station, library, salaries, pensions, Belknap County sheriff, jail, & nursing home, and more.. Everything comes from one tax, the property tax.

Recently, the Gilford Police Dept voted to join the Teamster's Union because it would help the police in coexisting with their boss, the town.

So, what union does Ames Farm, the taxpayer who pays all the bills for Gilford, join to help Ames in dealing with the town?

[joe]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Paying the Gilford prop tax has got to be the number one issue here. Figuring out a way w/ boat launch fees, hosting bass fishing events, serving pancake breafast, and whatever else works is the big issue. How to pay the prop tax bill, every six months?

It's a publc record, so anyone know what the Ames Farm bill looks like? The property tax is the only way that the town has to raise money for a big long list of spending: schools, roads, police, fire, administartion, transfer station, library, salaries, pensions, Belknap County sheriff, jail, & nursing home, and more.. Everything comes from one tax, the property tax.

Recently, the Gilford Polce Dept voted to join the Teamser's Union because it would help the police in coexisting with their boss, the town.

So, what union does Ames Farm, the taxpayer who pays all the bills for Gilford, join to help Ames in dealing with the town?

what dose that statment have to do with not obeying the ruels

[fatlazyless]

It has everything to do with it. Making the money to pay the taxes is the reason for the increased commercial activities that you, a neighbor, do not like.

Ames Farm finds it necessary to turn up the volumn on their revenue making acivities because the town has greatly increased their prop tax bill. It's a direct cause and effect situation.

[joe]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

It has everything to do with it. Making the money to pay the taxes is the reason for the increased commercial activities that you, a neighbor, do not like.

Ames Farm finds it necessary to turn up the volumn on their revenue making acivities because the town has greatly increased their prop tax bill. It's a direct case and effect situation.

look pal,
why dont you spend a little time and read the papers to find out all the facts before you take sides

[idigtractors]

Originally Posted by joe

look pal,
why dont you spend a little time and read the pappers to find out all the facks before you take sides

By the above qoute, it appears that you are getting a bit upset and the fingers are going faster than the brain.

[fatlazyless]

Lake Winnipesaukee has a long history as a bass fishing, speed boat, and water recreation area in addition to being the property tax base for central NH. As the building lots around the 200 mile waterfront have been 99.44% built-out, some compromises must be made to accomodate all the different users of Lake Winnipesaukee.

[joe]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Lake Winnipesaukee has a long history as a bass fishing, speed boat, and water recreation area in addition to being the property tax base for central NH. As the building lots around the 200 mile waterfront have been 99.44% built-out, some compromises must be made to accomodate all the different users of Lake Winnipesaukee.

you may have a point there but that dosnt give them the right to disobey the laws that we all have to live by.i love fishing ,boating just like every one else but i have to obey the ruels.We all have the same problem about taxes .

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by joe

Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.

Thanks Joe, that answers my question that something "too big to overlook" did occur. While I personally HATE the fact that so many permits/rules/ect. exist that constrain what property owners can do on the property they pay for, the rules are pretty clear for wetlands.

If I was in this situation I'd be pretty PO'ed too.

[joe]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

Thanks Joe, that answers my question that something "too big to overlook" did occur. While I personally HATE the fact that so many permits/rules/ect. exist that constrain what property owners can do on the property they pay for, the rules are pretty clear for wetlands.

If I was in this situation I'd be pretty PO'ed too.

thanks for your understanding

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by joe

Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.

How about when the developer of Samoset condominiums filled in a dry river bed on the south side of the property to build more condos. One spring, there was so much water running off from from Belknap/Gunstock Mtn that it washed away some of the Samoset properties and the abutters as well. What a mess! My father warned the town but the town figured a dry riverbed is no big deal. To this day, I'd rather deal with a landowner than some high powered developer who will go out of his way to walk all over the neighbors and the town.