5 Million Dollar Moultonboro Rec Center Proposal

ITD · 01-03-2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

. What do you think the SB-2 creators were thinking when they wrote this law and why did they allow its' use in towns, but not in cities?

I think the SB-2 creators knew full well that power had already been concentrated into the hands of few in cities and that city residents would jump at the chance to have the amount of say in the city's affairs as a town meeting member has. Distributing power from a mayor/council type government to a town meeting type government, would upset the well established patronage/hack system already in place.

On the other hand in towns, where any registered voter can speak up, and indeed truly affect change by squashing runaway spending, the creators of SB2 know that their roadblock is a first step on to truly inefficient city and state style government that is adept at picking your pocket.

Skip · 01-03-2008, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITD

I think the SB-2 creators knew full well that power had already been concentrated into the hands of few in cities and that city residents would jump at the chance to have the amount of say in the city's affairs as a town meeting member has. Distributing power from a mayor/council type government to a town meeting type government, would upset the well established patronage/hack system already in place...

I respectfully disagree. And to also answer FLL's question, the handful of incorporated cities in New Hampshire operate under many different rules than
the majority of communities in NH, which are towns that operate under the town meeting or SB-2 form of government.

Quite frankly, if I ever move further north to a town in my homestate here, I would probably prefer an SB-2 community for a number of reasons...some already articulated by FLL, ITD and others.

However, in a City by incorporating and being granted a charter by the State a whole new environment exists, mainly due to the substantial size difference and complexity of the cities versus the towns in NH.

But even in a city a group of citizens always retain the right to petition for a charter change and revoke city status and return to a town form of government. Case in point? There are a group of citizens in the City of Somersworth currently exploring this option.

Buy even in a City a single citizen, or a handful of citizens can effect change. In my City of Dover a single citizen was able to open the books and reveal massive retirement fraud. Another handful of citizens instituted a petition drive and last fall at the City election were able to get the city charter amended and we now have a much needed tax cap in the City of Dover.

Yes, there is ample corruption, deception & ineptitude found throughout government. Just as there is in many of the private industries that dot our landscape. On the other side of the coin there are many folks in government, and the programs and departments they represent, that truly make NH the attractive state to live, love & play in that it is!

My point is that an informed citizenry is the best defense against perceived government run amuck. Many times a little research will reveal that no problem truly exists, or may reveal a scathig indictment of a system, as the retirement system fiasco was revealed in Dover.

The problem is simple. Too many folks, whether they live in a town or a city, take their voting privilege to lightly and fail to excercise their right to participate and make positive or effective change. When that occurs, government operates in a vacuum. And that vacuum has a tendency to "suck" our money!

I said it before and at the risk of being redundant I'll say it again....when it comes to the political shortcomings of our communities, our State or our Country we have met the enemy, and thet is us!

fatlazyless · 01-03-2008, 08:38 PM

Thanks for the 'no charge' opinion, Skip. I was thinkin' that If it was a 'fee for service' opinion, I'd be turnin' it in to the Town of Meredith at the same time that I turn in the two SB-2 petitions with the required minimum of 25 votes each. Town Hall.....that's where all the money is....and in Meredith, the town hall building was originally built to be a 1920's savings bank w/ teller's windows, so now it's the home of the real big money.

ITD · 01-03-2008, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

Yes, there is ample corruption, deception & ineptitude found throughout government. Just as there is in many of the private industries that dot our landscape. On the other side of the coin there are many folks in government, and the programs and departments they represent, that truly make NH the attractive state to live, love & play in that it is!

Skip, as always, you make fine points. I'd like to take a couple of your quotes out of order, although hopefully not out of context. In my last post, I am guilty of painting with a broad brush, insinuating that all city employees and politicians are corrupt. I do not believe this, nor did I mean to imply it. To you honest city employees and politicians, please accept my most humble apologies, I really do appreciate the sometimes thankless jobs you perform.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

But even in a city a group of citizens always retain the right to petition for a charter change and revoke city status and return to a town form of government. Case in point? There are a group of citizens in the City of Somersworth currently exploring this option.

My point is that an informed citizenry is the best defense against perceived government run amuck. Many times a little research will reveal that no problem truly exists, or may reveal a scathig indictment of a system, as the retirement system fiasco was revealed in Dover.

The problem is simple. Too many folks, whether they live in a town or a city, take their voting privilege to lightly and fail to excercise their right to participate and make positive or effective change. When that occurs, government operates in a vacuum. And that vacuum has a tendency to "suck" our money!

I said it before and at the risk of being redundant I'll say it again....when it comes to the political shortcomings of our communities, our State or our Country we have met the enemy, and thet is us!

I agree 100 percent.

Here is my problem. In some of the posts in this thread and elsewhere there seems to be an underlying current of feelings that SB2 is in some way a method to thwart groups of people who have taken the time (which is not much by the way) to understand and work within the framework of town meeting government to institute the change that they want. If they have figured out how to get their way at town meeting, what's to stop them from figuring out how to get their way with SB2? Nothing. In fact it's much easier to stop, change, amend warrant articles than it is ballot questions. Hence, it's much easier to stop these groups at town meeting than it would be at the ballot box.

Anyway, it seems to be comin' like a train wreck:

SB2, a more limiting form of goverment even with its good points, to replace traditional town meeting.

and

More taxes, to lower our tax burden.

You'll all have to excuse me for not understanding..............

beancover · 01-06-2008, 04:17 PM

The state of NH has discovered a gold mine on the shores of its lakes, inhabited by those who can afford to pay and by some who cannot. Having already over burdened property owners who live on the water with exponentially sky-rocketing taxes, they have now decided to break the backs of the residents who can see the water. They have a great formula, ie: tax the people the most, who use the services least and who have no voice. Sounds like a plan only a govt could actually get away with. Moultonborough politicians are obscene in their spending practices. You'd think they lie in bed at night figuring out new ways to spend taxpayers money. Just wait until the mortgage crises forces many of those waterfront owners out of their vacation homes and greedy communities are left holding the bag. Only then will the wanton waste and spending come back to haunt them. Who's going to pay for their new playthings then?
beancover is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message

DREAMS · 01-20-2008, 10:08 AM

Just to clarify, this major issue is no simply a $50,000 discussion and research project to keep folks in town busy! This was scheduled to be a 2008 warrant article for ballot vote.

Once again, the whole point of this project and wishes to spend town money on such a large capital project during a "recession". Weather you or the town father's want to admit or deny, the entire country as well as local economy is and has been in a recession. The housing market has been in a recession for over a year regardless of the sub-prime market. The recession is expected to continue for up to 18 months according to experts. Once again, the point as beancover said is that the huge tax rate and costs of living will fall on those year-round residents left behind currrently struggling for a roof over their head, food on the table and stable employment providing enough income to cover living expenses. Seasonal folks will come and go but the year round residents are forced to pay the bills year after year.

MRJS · 02-19-2008, 03:05 PM

One way to put the brakes on this boondoggle is attending town voting and meetings.

Tuesday, March 11, 7AM to 7PM, Town Election at Public Safety

Saturday, March 15, 9AM, Town Meeting at Moultonborough Academy

I'm against the rec center. Keep taxes as low as possible. Citizens always spend money more wisely than government. The government has a right to tax for necessities, but not for niceties.

A rec center is wonderful, everybody likes a rec center, however that is not the point. There are a lot of wonderful things in the world that money can buy. The point is, that after taxing for necessities, any further tax is stealing.

01-03-2008, 08:38 PM	#3
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,796 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 301 Thanked 1,026 Times in 746 Posts	Thanks for the 'no charge' opinion, Skip. I was thinkin' that If it was a 'fee for service' opinion, I'd be turnin' it in to the Town of Meredith at the same time that I turn in the two SB-2 petitions with the required minimum of 25 votes each. Town Hall.....that's where all the money is....and in Meredith, the town hall building was originally built to be a 1920's savings bank w/ teller's windows, so now it's the home of the real big money. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

01-06-2008, 04:17 PM	#5
beancover Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	5 million dollar rec center proposal The state of NH has discovered a gold mine on the shores of its lakes, inhabited by those who can afford to pay and by some who cannot. Having already over burdened property owners who live on the water with exponentially sky-rocketing taxes, they have now decided to break the backs of the residents who can see the water. They have a great formula, ie: tax the people the most, who use the services least and who have no voice. Sounds like a plan only a govt could actually get away with. Moultonborough politicians are obscene in their spending practices. You'd think they lie in bed at night figuring out new ways to spend taxpayers money. Just wait until the mortgage crises forces many of those waterfront owners out of their vacation homes and greedy communities are left holding the bag. Only then will the wanton waste and spending come back to haunt them. Who's going to pay for their new playthings then? beancover is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message

01-20-2008, 10:08 AM	#6
DREAMS Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This proposal was scheduled for a warrant article Just to clarify, this major issue is no simply a $50,000 discussion and research project to keep folks in town busy! This was scheduled to be a 2008 warrant article for ballot vote. Once again, the whole point of this project and wishes to spend town money on such a large capital project during a "recession". Weather you or the town father's want to admit or deny, the entire country as well as local economy is and has been in a recession. The housing market has been in a recession for over a year regardless of the sub-prime market. The recession is expected to continue for up to 18 months according to experts. Once again, the point as beancover said is that the huge tax rate and costs of living will fall on those year-round residents left behind currrently struggling for a roof over their head, food on the table and stable employment providing enough income to cover living expenses. Seasonal folks will come and go but the year round residents are forced to pay the bills year after year.

02-19-2008, 03:05 PM	#7
MRJS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 92 Thanks: 75 Thanked 18 Times in 9 Posts	Town Elections and Meetings One way to put the brakes on this boondoggle is attending town voting and meetings. Tuesday, March 11, 7AM to 7PM, Town Election at Public Safety Saturday, March 15, 9AM, Town Meeting at Moultonborough Academy I'm against the rec center. Keep taxes as low as possible. Citizens always spend money more wisely than government. The government has a right to tax for necessities, but not for niceties. A rec center is wonderful, everybody likes a rec center, however that is not the point. There are a lot of wonderful things in the world that money can buy. The point is, that after taxing for necessities, any further tax is stealing.