Lt. Dunleavy, NHMP, responds....

codeman671 · 03-14-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The New Hampshire Camp Directors Association supports speed limits. Below is a link to a Concord Monitor article that says so. Is that good enough?

http://ossipeelake.org/news/2006/02/...akes-on-boats/

Quote:

Originally Posted by bear islander

Many NH Camp Directors, INCLUDING MYSELF, have been complaining for decades about excessive speed on our lakes. One again you are misinformed.

No, I don't think it is. You post an article directly related to the speed limit debate. Where is this history of decades of concern that you discuss that is precedes all of this? All I asked for was some historical proof, you provided squat in my eyes. I'll paypal you $0.10.

Bear Islander · 03-14-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman671

No, I don't think it is. You post an article directly related to the speed limit debate. Where is this history of decades of concern that you discuss that is precedes all of this? All I asked for was some historical proof, you provided squat in my eyes. I'll paypal you $0.10.

Way back in 1973 the director of a New Hampshire children's camp had a problem on his lake. He petitioned the state for help, and eventually a speed limit was set on that lake.

You and I discussed this earlier in this same thread. That was the "decades" I was referring to in my post. Sorry if I made it to obscure. For the evidence you seek go back and read your own post!

I guess we are in the "let's pick apart every little thing he says mode" now.

Cal - Thanks, I guess I will have to take my chances.

hazelnut - As I keep reminding people, I have always wanted to get ride of the big cruisers. I hope they ARE next. I am confident that the lake will have a horsepower limit eventually. The new two strokes are much better than the old ones. They have to be to meet the new federal standards.

I am in favor of a ban on two strokes on the lake, that will be a hard one to sell however. It will come eventually, it will have to. The lakes gas guzzling, gas in the water, oil in the bilge days are numbered.

Lakegeezer · 03-14-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I am in favor of a ban on two strokes on the lake, that will be a hard one to sell however. It will come eventually, it will have to. The lakes gas guzzling, gas in the water, oil in the bilge days are numbered.

Can't wait for those nuke engines to appear. No emissions, plenty of horsepower. Powered by powdered granite.

codeman671 · 03-14-2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I guess we are in the "let's pick apart every little thing he says mode" now.

And how 'bout that Quabbin...??? I'd still love to hear your thoughts on how the two lakes are similar. Do you propose a 10hp limit? How about no swimming, skinny dipping (or chunky dunking it if is the case), or playing at the beach?

Getting back to one of our previous conversations, I had no issue with you comparing Long Lake in proximity and in relation. A drunk driver is a drunk driver, there was one on Long Lake and people died. There was one here and an individual died. I doubt the outcome would have been different if other types of boats were involved. You don't have to be doing 60mph+ to crush a 14' boat or kill someone seated in the back of a 22' boat . And one of those incidents did not involve excess speed for the conditions.

I fail to see the logic however when comparing isolated incidents in other parts of the country as some love to point out. Accidents can happen anywhere, and for the overwhelming odds (including here) speed is not the major contributing factor. As far as snowmobiling, cars, etc more people die every year in these other vehicles than in boats. Speed lmits are not saving those people. What is taking their lives is drinking and driving, inexperience, etc.. Sure, limiting speed at some level can save lives, but when the incidents that people claim are the causes are actually provoked by large amounts of alcohol a speed limit didn't save anyone.

Bear Islander · 03-14-2008, 11:33 PM

Quabbin and Winnipesaukee both provide drinking water for thousands of people. That is the relevant similarity. The relative numbers of people drinking the water doesn't matter.

Winnipesaukee is still in the pristine range, but the quality is dropping. When the water quality drops below pristine you will see some drastic changes. There will be calls for severe restrictions and they will pass in a walk. With respect to boats we are in what will be called the good old days. Every year anti pollution laws, codes and standards are increasing in this country. It is happening everywhere. If you think Winnipesaukee is immune you are in fantasy land.

Do you really think there will be 1500HP boats on this lake in twenty years. Not a chance. Try 100HP or less, that is my guess.

I don't think we will have nuke boating, but electric is a definite possibility.

hazelnut · 03-15-2008, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Quabbin and Winnipesaukee both provide drinking water for thousands of people. That is the relevant similarity. The relative numbers of people drinking the water doesn't matter.

Winnipesaukee is still in the pristine range, but the quality is dropping. When the water quality drops below pristine you will see some drastic changes. There will be calls for severe restrictions and they will pass in a walk. With respect to boats we are in what will be called the good old days. Every year anti pollution laws, codes and standards are increasing in this country. It is happening everywhere. If you think Winnipesaukee is immune you are in fantasy land.

Do you really think there will be 1500HP boats on this lake in twenty years. Not a chance. Try 100HP or less, that is my guess.

I don't think we will have nuke boating, but electric is a definite possibility.

Sure we may have electric boats or Nuke boats or whatever boats. I would WELCOME any new innovative idea that would lessen pollution. However, I could care less if said new style electronucleo boat does 75MPH as long as it is clean burning. Speed Limit does not solve a pollution problem. Who knows with new technology we may be whizzing around on 100MPH electric boats. Whooooopeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Rattlesnake Guy · 03-15-2008, 12:57 AM

What we need is something that can roam the lake in tiny numbers that have a high perceived danger but have little actual risk of hurting anyone to scare the 1000s of potential polluters away. If we could just think of something.

fatlazyless · 03-15-2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

What we need is something that can roam the lake in tiny numbers that have a high perceived danger but have little actual risk of hurting anyone to scare the 1000s of potential polluters away. If we could just think of something.

Hey there Rattlesnake Guy, yes it's true that rattlesnakes are pretty decent swimmers. They have to be, just to writher out to their island. Plus, they could supply the bike week venders with the raw material for custom biker boots, and belts........another win-win!

Rattlesnake Guy · 03-15-2008, 04:10 PM

Les,
Glad to see my suggestion was to subtle for you.

fatlazyless · 03-15-2008, 07:12 PM

Here's an advance preview of what I'm gonna say when HB847 passes the senate.

Well golleeeee....I'm speechless....I don't know what to say, so why don't I just say,

sometimes you win,

& sometimes YOU LOSE!

:

Hey, if you like the lake at 75mph, you'll like it ten times better at 45mph,
so just slow down & look at the view,
& use less gasoline, understand!

Going 45mph is a wicked fast speed for most normal boats.

This has been a public service message brought to you from your local mental health rehabilitation center! ..b.b.b.b.b.b.b.b.b.b...

Bear Islander · 03-15-2008, 10:46 PM

There is a saying in sports .... get cocky, get stuffed!

And something about waiting for a fat lady to sing or a Governor to sign the legislation.

Airwaves · 03-16-2008, 02:57 PM

As I bring your attention to post #277 written by AL, Skipper of the Sea Que an my response at #289, both on page 3 of this thread, there is another search underway for a missing snowmobiler

Dave R · 03-15-2008, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Winnipesaukee is still in the pristine range, but the quality is dropping. When the water quality drops below pristine you will see some drastic changes. There will be calls for severe restrictions and they will pass in a walk. With respect to boats we are in what will be called the good old days. Every year anti pollution laws, codes and standards are increasing in this country. It is happening everywhere. If you think Winnipesaukee is immune you are in fantasy land.

Where's your water quality data? How do you know the quality is dropping? I have been unable to find anything newer than the 2005 UNH student project that drew its biggest conclusions from 1986 to 1999 data.

WeirsBeachBoater · 03-15-2008, 08:42 AM

I have an idea to help the alleged pollution problem! I think I will get together a group, called the WMA, Winni Mainlanders Association. Petition the legislature to take all island property by eminent domain. That will instantly clean up the water quality by taking hundreds of boats off the lake, stop all antique septic systems from running into the lake. Now look what you have done, I am starting to make as much sense as FLL or BI.... Geez

Bear Islander · 03-15-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

... take all island property by eminent domain..... .....stop all antique septic systems from running into the lake....

What makes you think failed septic systems are only an island problem? I suspect islanders are more aware and more diligent than mainlanders about this problem.

Dave R - The analysis is still done every year, the results may not be online.

I notice from another thread that you can't take your boat on some other bodies of water. See what I mean about ever increasing restrictions because of pollution. Will this restriction come to the big lake sooner or later? I predict Yes!

Dave R · 03-16-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Dave R - The analysis is still done every year, the results may not be online.

I notice from another thread that you can't take your boat on some other bodies of water. See what I mean about ever increasing restrictions because of pollution. Will this restriction come to the big lake sooner or later? I predict Yes!

Have you seen the water quality results for the last 5 years?

I do see what you mean by ever increasing restrictions, but we both know it's never been about pollution.

BTW, in that thread, it was determined that I can legally take my boat on Squam, I just can't take a porta-potti and a bed at the same time.

fatlazyless · 03-19-2008, 01:58 PM

Just checked the quik bill search at the NH Senate and after passing the house on 1/31, it now shows 3/13: "Introduced and Referred to Transportation and Interstate Cooperation."

On March 16, 2006, hb162 was drowned in the senate by a vote of 15-9.

Wonder what it will be this year, and when it will occur? The legislature is in session today and tomorrow, but I have no clue as to when hb847 will splash across the senate floor?

Reminds me of a saying from the back of a marina forklift: If you want to go splash,
you best have the cash!

After that hb847 gets passed, I wanna see a NH Marine Trades Assoc bumper sticker that says: We have the cash, so where's our splash?

fatlazyless · 03-20-2008, 08:56 AM

As for the reason why the 45mph land speed limit does not apply to snowmobiles when on a frozen lake surface? It probably has something to do with the same legislative reasons why a three seat jetski is legally a boat.

Now, if the motorboat speed limits soon gets passed, is it likely that it will be rescinded if the Republicans regain a majority in the legislature? It's an interesting question. Senator Joe Kenney is a Republican, and supports the boat speed limits, and he could well be the Republican candidate to oppose Gov Lynch in November.

hazelnut · 03-15-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

I have an idea to help the alleged pollution problem! I think I will get together a group, called the WMA, Winni Mainlanders Association. Petition the legislature to take all island property by eminent domain. That will instantly clean up the water quality by taking hundreds of boats off the lake, stop all antique septic systems from running into the lake. Now look what you have done, I am starting to make as much sense as FLL or BI.... Geez

HEY! Hands off my Island you flatlander!!!!!!!!

Cal · 03-15-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Cal - Thanks, I guess I will have to take my chances.

I guess you will , since I truely doubt your concern about congestion and pollution. It is all about speed and thats all , isn't it?

Bear Islander · 03-15-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal

I guess you will , since I truely doubt your concern about congestion and pollution. It is all about speed and thats all , isn't it?

You might not have posted that if you had ever seen me drive my Seadoo. I love speed, next year I will be going Mach 4 as I leave the atmosphere.

Pollution is not my first concern, nor is speed. The direction the lake is going in is my first concern. It's all about bigger, faster, louder and get those kayaks out of my way. The opposition has actually suggested that children's camps may need to hire Marine Patrol details to protect their boats. Talk about clueless!!!

As with all things in life there are limits. How big is to big for this lake? How fast is to fast? Are there places that kayaks and canoes should not go?

Next summer visit a children's camp on Winnipesaukee for a day. Talk to the director and waterfront staff. I think you will find a new perspective.

03-15-2008, 07:12 PM	#10
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,856 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 303 Thanked 1,039 Times in 758 Posts	Here's an advance preview of what I'm gonna say when HB847 passes the senate. Well golleeeee....I'm speechless....I don't know what to say, so why don't I just say, sometimes you win, & sometimes YOU LOSE! : Hey, if you like the lake at 75mph, you'll like it ten times better at 45mph, so just slow down & look at the view, & use less gasoline, understand! Going 45mph is a wicked fast speed for most normal boats. This has been a public service message brought to you from your local mental health rehabilitation center! ..b.b.b.b.b.b.b.b.b.b... Last edited by fatlazyless; 03-15-2008 at 08:33 PM.

03-16-2008, 02:57 PM	#12
Airwaves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 1,153 Thanks: 9 Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts	Hypocracy at its finest As I bring your attention to post #277 written by AL, Skipper of the Sea Que an my response at #289, both on page 3 of this thread, there is another search underway for a missing snowmobiler

03-19-2008, 01:58 PM	#17
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,856 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 303 Thanked 1,039 Times in 758 Posts	status hb847 Just checked the quik bill search at the NH Senate and after passing the house on 1/31, it now shows 3/13: "Introduced and Referred to Transportation and Interstate Cooperation." On March 16, 2006, hb162 was drowned in the senate by a vote of 15-9. Wonder what it will be this year, and when it will occur? The legislature is in session today and tomorrow, but I have no clue as to when hb847 will splash across the senate floor? Reminds me of a saying from the back of a marina forklift: If you want to go splash, you best have the cash! After that hb847 gets passed, I wanna see a NH Marine Trades Assoc bumper sticker that says: We have the cash, so where's our splash?

03-14-2008, 11:33 PM	#5
Bear Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bear Island Posts: 1,764 Thanks: 32 Thanked 441 Times in 207 Posts	Quabbin and Winnipesaukee both provide drinking water for thousands of people. That is the relevant similarity. The relative numbers of people drinking the water doesn't matter. Winnipesaukee is still in the pristine range, but the quality is dropping. When the water quality drops below pristine you will see some drastic changes. There will be calls for severe restrictions and they will pass in a walk. With respect to boats we are in what will be called the good old days. Every year anti pollution laws, codes and standards are increasing in this country. It is happening everywhere. If you think Winnipesaukee is immune you are in fantasy land. Do you really think there will be 1500HP boats on this lake in twenty years. Not a chance. Try 100HP or less, that is my guess. I don't think we will have nuke boating, but electric is a definite possibility.

03-15-2008, 12:57 AM	#7
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	What we need is something that can roam the lake in tiny numbers that have a high perceived danger but have little actual risk of hurting anyone to scare the 1000s of potential polluters away. If we could just think of something.

03-15-2008, 04:10 PM	#9
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	Les, Glad to see my suggestion was to subtle for you.

03-15-2008, 10:46 PM	#11
Bear Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bear Island Posts: 1,764 Thanks: 32 Thanked 441 Times in 207 Posts	There is a saying in sports .... get cocky, get stuffed! And something about waiting for a fat lady to sing or a Governor to sign the legislation.

03-15-2008, 08:42 AM	#14
WeirsBeachBoater Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 709 Blog Entries: 9 Thanks: 39 Thanked 148 Times in 65 Posts	I have an idea to help the alleged pollution problem! I think I will get together a group, called the WMA, Winni Mainlanders Association. Petition the legislature to take all island property by eminent domain. That will instantly clean up the water quality by taking hundreds of boats off the lake, stop all antique septic systems from running into the lake. Now look what you have done, I am starting to make as much sense as FLL or BI.... Geez

03-20-2008, 08:56 AM	#18
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,856 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 303 Thanked 1,039 Times in 758 Posts	As for the reason why the 45mph land speed limit does not apply to snowmobiles when on a frozen lake surface? It probably has something to do with the same legislative reasons why a three seat jetski is legally a boat. Now, if the motorboat speed limits soon gets passed, is it likely that it will be rescinded if the Republicans regain a majority in the legislature? It's an interesting question. Senator Joe Kenney is a Republican, and supports the boat speed limits, and he could well be the Republican candidate to oppose Gov Lynch in November.