NH natives are in the minority!

Ropetow · 03-27-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

]
My point...there are many issues that we have in common and these are the issues we need to deal with. If it is always US vs THEM, little is ever accomplished. And that, unfortunately,never seems to change.

I'm a New Hampshire resident by choice, not by birth. I escaped the People's Republic of Taxachusetts for the Live Free or Die mentality of the Granite State. It really "us" versus "them" in that, speaking for myself, "us" want limited government while "them" want the socialistic approach that has done so much good for ME, MA, etc. New Hampshire voters were upset in 2006 and elected two tax-and-spend congressmen, and a slew of tax-and-spend members of the state House and Senate. Knowing politics, the best time to defeat an incumbent is in their first run for re-election. That means that the 2008 elections are crucial to the future of NH. Will we retain the traditional values NH is known for, or will be become another MA, ME, etc.? We hear all the moans and groans about property taxes in NH. Ever notice that we hear the same moans and groans in MA and ME, and that is with high state income taxes and high sales taxes? We, the voters of NH, have the power this November to decide what kind of state we will be. I was active in the presidential primary, and won re-election to my local School Board in November. If my work scheduled allowed it, I'd run for a seat in the NH House. Talking about how NH politics has changed is good, but worthless unless it is followed up with action. Hopefully, folks who agree with me that NH is headed down the wrong path, that we don't want to become another MA or ME, will get involved in the upcoming election and back up our talk and thoughts with action. To steal a meaningless slogan from the hopelessly overmatched MA Gov., "Together, we can!"

MAXUM · 03-27-2008, 06:34 PM

Hey we love ya Ropetow!

The fact is for us natives we've been accustomed to a way of life here in NH. While it may not be perfect, glamorous, ladened with the latest high tech services and amenities, it's simplicity, it works, and we're fine and comfortable with that. Is it so bad for the people here to want things to remain that way and to be critical to those who barge in here with their big "progressive" ideas and try to fix what they perceive is broken? I think not. These ideas have made complete disasters out of our neighboring states and we don't want to see history repeating itself in our back yards, thank you very much.

Newbiesaukee · 03-27-2008, 06:52 PM

Ropetow, by the original definition of this thread, you are THEM, not a NH native. That is always the problem in seeing it as US vs. THEM. Certainly one can have legitimate differences of opinion on any subject and I applaud your activism. The point I was trying to make is that if we stick to the issues then certainly people can disagree on the issues. It is when we assume that everyone from MA or whatever ALWAYS thinks the same way, that, IMO, we run into problems.

Rattlesnake Guy · 03-27-2008, 08:31 PM

In my opinion you don't have to be born here to be "US". It does help a lot if you like what we have and as RopeTow describes, "I'm a New Hampshire resident by choice".

Ropetow · 03-27-2008, 10:27 PM

Less: The war and GW were the reason for the 'brain burp' NH voters had in 2006. It had little to nothing to do with property taxes. Show me one liberal Democrat elected to the House or Senate who ran on a platform to reduce property taxes but enact a sales and income tax. Can't be done. I have 4 acquaintances who are liberal reps, and none of them ran on a platform to vote for civil unions, to push for a sales tax, to push for an income tax, or to decriminalize marijuana. I feel bad for the retired couple in Meredith NH, Millinocket ME or Medford MA living on a fixed income who are faced with ever-increasing property taxes on their modest ranch home. At least the folks in Meredith don't pay a sales tax on every new jacket they buy (as they do in ME...yup, ME taxes clothing along with having property taxes that are through the roof) or an income tax on their part-time WalMart Greeter jobs (as they do in ME and MA), I can't feel sorry for the folks in homes worth millions that face higher property taxes. The NH Advantage was and is real. Enacting a sales and / or income tax will NOT reduce the tax burden on anyone. Give liberals in government more money, and they will spend it. That's a historical fact. Even a friend who is a 'moderate' Dem. state rep says the Republicans will have major gains in Concord in 08. It is up to us. Sit on our hands and be faced with a total tax burden that is equal to or worse than ME and MA. Or become active and bring back the NH Advantage.

Newbiesaukee · 03-27-2008, 10:30 PM

It is reassuring that I am now one of US as I have chosen to live here as has anyone else from anywhere who lives in NH. I promise I won't respond further.

fatlazyless · 03-28-2008, 08:21 AM

People generally believe what they want to believe. Jeb Bradley called it a fluke, and you call it a brain burp. One thing that so many NH Republican politicians now all have in common is the word 'former.' There's former Congressman Jeb Bradley and Charley Bass, former Gov's Council Josiah Spaulding, former State Senator Carl Johnson, and Rob Boyce. After the election, most likely Senator Sununu will become one of the youngest former US senators, as well.

With an unpopular war, an unpopular President Bush, and two strong voter getters for the Democrats in Governor Lynch and Governor Shaheen, where is the New Hampshire election likely to go? I call it a continuing NH sea-change with the tide changing from red to blue, and getting more blue.

As the saying goes...time will tell...the November 4 election is about eight months away.

SIKSUKR · 03-28-2008, 08:58 AM

Ropetow for Governor.Your beating a dead horse with FLL.He can't believe that adding income and/or sales tax won't lower his property tax.As ropetow said,give em more money and they will spend more.When will people wake up.

Skip · 03-28-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Ropetow for Governor.Your beating a dead horse with FLL.He can't believe that adding income and/or sales tax won't lower his property tax.As ropetow said,give em more money and they will spend more.When will people wake up.

And while that poor horse gets beat to death over & over & over again by the same minority, the proof is stiil "in the pudding".

We are deep in to our second year legislative session of a Democratic Governor with a clear Democratic majority on the Executive Council, The House and the Senate. And what do we not have? Yep, no general sales or income tax!

Regardless of the party affiliation of the folks representing us in Concord, survey after survey and election after election always ends with the same result, the majority of the taxpayers in New Hampshire do not want their elected representatives to replace our current property tax system with a sales or income tax scheme.

I would say that the facts speak for themselves; regardless of party affiliation the New Hampshire advantage is alive & well in this great State, and still a major attraction for the many new folks moving in!

Ropetow · 03-28-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

And while that poor horse gets beat to death over & over & over again by the same minority, the proof is stiil "in the pudding".

We are deep in to our second year legislative session of a Democratic Governor with a clear Democratic majority on the Executive Council, The House and the Senate. And what do we not have? Yep, no general sales or income tax!

Regardless of the party affiliation of the folks representing us in Concord, survey after survey and election after election always ends with the same result, the majority of the taxpayers in New Hampshire do not want their elected representatives to replace our current property tax system with a sales or income tax scheme.

I would say that the facts speak for themselves; regardless of party affiliation the New Hampshire advantage is alive & well in this great State, and still a major attraction for the many new folks moving in!

You are correct. There is no state sales or income tax. Yet. Gov. Lynch has said he would veto either. That is why the tax-and-spend crowd in the House haven't voted for it yet. Look at the irresponsible budget this crowd passed. And where are we now? Stuck with a budget deficit. I know and do some work with some of the liberal Dems and they literally laugh at the term NH advantage. They want more tax revenue so they can spend more money on social services. We are alright today. But, unless we are truly vigilant and active, they will get their broadbased taxes so they can emulate the social services of MA and ME. Maybe anyone who appreciates NH the way it is, and believes in the NH Advantage, should contact each of our state representatives and state senator via mail and ask them these questions: 'Do you support a state income tax?' 'Do you support a state sales tax?' 'If you answered 'no' , 'Under what circumstances (if any) could you see yourself voting in favor of a state sales or income tax?' Tell them that you would like them to mail you their responses. No telephone calls. Then you'll have them on the record. I bet some of us would be very surprised how bad the 'tax-and-spend fever' is in Concord. Or how few responses we'd actually get. I know that at least five of my eight state representatives would vote in favor of these taxes. (and judging my the votes cast by the other three it would most likely be a perfect 8/8 in favor of the taxes) But I know this because I asked them. None of them ran for election in 2006 on that campaign platform. Democracy isn't a spectator sport. We must work at it.

asdf · 03-28-2008, 02:04 PM

beautiful 'Lake Liberalism' in the great state of 'Little Massachusetts' (formerly known as Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire)

some call it progress. I would rather refer to it as evolution ... or cancer

nj2nh · 03-28-2008, 03:02 PM

Yes, I was born in Taxachusetts. I have sadly admitted that already. And, now, I live in an even worse place, NJ. (No choice there - my husband is from here and when we got married, he had a job and I didn't so that's how we ended up here).

However, not to beat this dead horse, I gotta point out that my modest house in my modest town charges me $13,000 in property taxes and that doesn't include the school referendum that just passed (add about $400) or the town tax increase or the school budget which will be voted on in two weeks (add another $300). I will be approaching $14,000! And my husband wants our boys to go to Catholic high school for another $8000 per year. I ain't made of money.

That doesn't include, of course, income tax or sales tax which I couldn't begin to figure out. Nor does it include our county property tax. Does NH have those? (I really don't know this).

On the other hand, our gas taxes are the lowest in the country so a gallon of regular is "only" about $3.05. When I filled up today, it went over $60 for the first time.

From where I am sitting, I will take the NH property taxes any day. Besides, if I lived there (soon, please) I could vote for/against them!!!!!

As for politics, I am as liberally conservative or conservatively liberal as they come and don't really pay attention to anything but how much it's going to cost me. Oh, and I really don't want any more McMansions. My parents cottage is just fine, thank you very much.

nj2nh (with an emphasis on the "nh")

MAXUM · 03-28-2008, 06:13 PM

NJ2NH-

Common now, NJ must be a utopia, perfect in every way with all that money the state has to spend.

Weekend Pundit · 03-28-2008, 07:21 PM

I've spent most of my life in New Hampshire. The only exceptions were a few years here and there when we lived in CT, MA, ME, and for a brief period, in PA. (During most if those times I was either a minor, so I had no choice in the matter, or was away at college.)

That said, I have to say I've been disheartened by the changes in our congressional delegation and the fiscal irresponsibility of the state legislature since 2006. Hopefully we can fix that in November 2008.

While property taxes have been going up, we still pay less property taxes than so many of the other more, umm, progressive states. And they have sales taxes, income taxes, or both.

An interesting trend I noticed during this recent town meeting season was the number of towns holding the line on spending. My home town of Gilford managed to keep their spending in check, meaning our tax burden is likely to stay unchanged...except for the county portion of those taxes, but let's not get me started on that thread. Other towns have cut spending, some have increased it, but not by much. When folks get their property tax bills with the new tax rates, some people will actually come to see that their taxes can be controlled by watching the town's spending. Maybe they'll finally get the message that ultimately they are responsible for the rise and fall of their own property taxes.

Then again, maybe not....

This'nThat · 04-03-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

We are deep in to our second year legislative session of a Democratic Governor with a clear Democratic majority on the Executive Council, The House and the Senate. And what do we not have? Yep, no general sales or income tax!

Regardless of the party affiliation of the folks representing us in Concord, survey after survey and election after election always ends with the same result, the majority of the taxpayers in New Hampshire do not want their elected representatives to replace our current property tax system with a sales or income tax scheme.

I would say that the facts speak for themselves

Reality check, Jan 2008, from Rep Jessie Osborne (D): "I believe something must be done now, and that Democrats were elected to majorities in both the House and Senate at least in part so that a permanent solution could be brought about." HB 1593 establishes a combination statewide "enhanced education" property tax at $5.50 per $1,000 of equalized assessed valuation, with a $200,000 homestead exemption; and a 4 percent education income tax with liberal income exemptions and a credit for the statewide property tax the household pays

He further states: "I wish to thank my co-sponsors - Democratic Reps. Chuck Weed of Keene, James Phinizy of Acworth and Mary Cooney of Plymouth - for their support and work in preparing and presenting this bill. I also thank the members of the House Ways and Means Committee, chaired by Democratic Rep. Susan Almy of Lebanon, for their open-minded reception".

It does matter who our elected reps are. Democrats have proven over and over again how much they want to spend our money. Beware, all polititians are not the same.

03-27-2008, 06:52 PM	#3
Newbiesaukee Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Coral Gables, winter; Long Island, summer Posts: 1,355 Thanks: 950 Thanked 573 Times in 298 Posts	Ropetow, by the original definition of this thread, you are THEM, not a NH native. That is always the problem in seeing it as US vs. THEM. Certainly one can have legitimate differences of opinion on any subject and I applaud your activism. The point I was trying to make is that if we stick to the issues then certainly people can disagree on the issues. It is when we assume that everyone from MA or whatever ALWAYS thinks the same way, that, IMO, we run into problems. Last edited by Newbiesaukee; 03-27-2008 at 06:53 PM. Reason: spelling

03-28-2008, 08:21 AM	#7
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,793 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 301 Thanked 1,024 Times in 745 Posts	People generally believe what they want to believe. Jeb Bradley called it a fluke, and you call it a brain burp. One thing that so many NH Republican politicians now all have in common is the word 'former.' There's former Congressman Jeb Bradley and Charley Bass, former Gov's Council Josiah Spaulding, former State Senator Carl Johnson, and Rob Boyce. After the election, most likely Senator Sununu will become one of the youngest former US senators, as well. With an unpopular war, an unpopular President Bush, and two strong voter getters for the Democrats in Governor Lynch and Governor Shaheen, where is the New Hampshire election likely to go? I call it a continuing NH sea-change with the tide changing from red to blue, and getting more blue. As the saying goes...time will tell...the November 4 election is about eight months away. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

03-28-2008, 08:58 AM	#8
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Ropetow for Governor.Your beating a dead horse with FLL.He can't believe that adding income and/or sales tax won't lower his property tax.As ropetow said,give em more money and they will spend more.When will people wake up. __________________ SIKSUKR

03-28-2008, 02:04 PM	#11
asdf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Welcome to .... beautiful 'Lake Liberalism' in the great state of 'Little Massachusetts' (formerly known as Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire) some call it progress. I would rather refer to it as evolution ... or cancer

03-28-2008, 03:02 PM	#12
nj2nh Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 529 Thanks: 80 Thanked 47 Times in 27 Posts	Hey, how bad can it really be? Yes, I was born in Taxachusetts. I have sadly admitted that already. And, now, I live in an even worse place, NJ. (No choice there - my husband is from here and when we got married, he had a job and I didn't so that's how we ended up here). However, not to beat this dead horse, I gotta point out that my modest house in my modest town charges me $13,000 in property taxes and that doesn't include the school referendum that just passed (add about $400) or the town tax increase or the school budget which will be voted on in two weeks (add another $300). I will be approaching $14,000! And my husband wants our boys to go to Catholic high school for another $8000 per year. I ain't made of money. That doesn't include, of course, income tax or sales tax which I couldn't begin to figure out. Nor does it include our county property tax. Does NH have those? (I really don't know this). On the other hand, our gas taxes are the lowest in the country so a gallon of regular is "only" about $3.05. When I filled up today, it went over $60 for the first time. From where I am sitting, I will take the NH property taxes any day. Besides, if I lived there (soon, please) I could vote for/against them!!!!! As for politics, I am as liberally conservative or conservatively liberal as they come and don't really pay attention to anything but how much it's going to cost me. Oh, and I really don't want any more McMansions. My parents cottage is just fine, thank you very much. nj2nh (with an emphasis on the "nh") __________________ Last edited by nj2nh; 03-28-2008 at 03:03 PM. Reason: forgot something

03-27-2008, 06:34 PM	#2
MAXUM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kuna ID Posts: 2,755 Thanks: 246 Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts	Hey we love ya Ropetow! The fact is for us natives we've been accustomed to a way of life here in NH. While it may not be perfect, glamorous, ladened with the latest high tech services and amenities, it's simplicity, it works, and we're fine and comfortable with that. Is it so bad for the people here to want things to remain that way and to be critical to those who barge in here with their big "progressive" ideas and try to fix what they perceive is broken? I think not. These ideas have made complete disasters out of our neighboring states and we don't want to see history repeating itself in our back yards, thank you very much.

03-27-2008, 08:31 PM	#4
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	In my opinion you don't have to be born here to be "US". It does help a lot if you like what we have and as RopeTow describes, "I'm a New Hampshire resident by choice".

03-27-2008, 10:27 PM	#5
Ropetow Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Rochester, NH / Bartlett, NH Posts: 322 Thanks: 228 Thanked 33 Times in 13 Posts	Less: The war and GW were the reason for the 'brain burp' NH voters had in 2006. It had little to nothing to do with property taxes. Show me one liberal Democrat elected to the House or Senate who ran on a platform to reduce property taxes but enact a sales and income tax. Can't be done. I have 4 acquaintances who are liberal reps, and none of them ran on a platform to vote for civil unions, to push for a sales tax, to push for an income tax, or to decriminalize marijuana. I feel bad for the retired couple in Meredith NH, Millinocket ME or Medford MA living on a fixed income who are faced with ever-increasing property taxes on their modest ranch home. At least the folks in Meredith don't pay a sales tax on every new jacket they buy (as they do in ME...yup, ME taxes clothing along with having property taxes that are through the roof) or an income tax on their part-time WalMart Greeter jobs (as they do in ME and MA), I can't feel sorry for the folks in homes worth millions that face higher property taxes. The NH Advantage was and is real. Enacting a sales and / or income tax will NOT reduce the tax burden on anyone. Give liberals in government more money, and they will spend it. That's a historical fact. Even a friend who is a 'moderate' Dem. state rep says the Republicans will have major gains in Concord in 08. It is up to us. Sit on our hands and be faced with a total tax burden that is equal to or worse than ME and MA. Or become active and bring back the NH Advantage.

03-27-2008, 10:30 PM	#6
Newbiesaukee Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Coral Gables, winter; Long Island, summer Posts: 1,355 Thanks: 950 Thanked 573 Times in 298 Posts	It is reassuring that I am now one of US as I have chosen to live here as has anyone else from anywhere who lives in NH. I promise I won't respond further.

03-28-2008, 06:13 PM	#13
MAXUM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kuna ID Posts: 2,755 Thanks: 246 Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts	NJ2NH- Common now, NJ must be a utopia, perfect in every way with all that money the state has to spend.

03-28-2008, 07:21 PM	#14
Weekend Pundit Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 347 Thanks: 26 Thanked 69 Times in 42 Posts	I've spent most of my life in New Hampshire. The only exceptions were a few years here and there when we lived in CT, MA, ME, and for a brief period, in PA. (During most if those times I was either a minor, so I had no choice in the matter, or was away at college.) That said, I have to say I've been disheartened by the changes in our congressional delegation and the fiscal irresponsibility of the state legislature since 2006. Hopefully we can fix that in November 2008. While property taxes have been going up, we still pay less property taxes than so many of the other more, umm, progressive states. And they have sales taxes, income taxes, or both. An interesting trend I noticed during this recent town meeting season was the number of towns holding the line on spending. My home town of Gilford managed to keep their spending in check, meaning our tax burden is likely to stay unchanged...except for the county portion of those taxes, but let's not get me started on that thread. Other towns have cut spending, some have increased it, but not by much. When folks get their property tax bills with the new tax rates, some people will actually come to see that their taxes can be controlled by watching the town's spending. Maybe they'll finally get the message that ultimately they are responsible for the rise and fall of their own property taxes. Then again, maybe not....